Hero's Journey: Dev Journal #3: RPG in MMO

Dana · March 2006

Stephanie Shaver, Simutronics Designer, talks about putting the "RPG" back into the MMORPG in the upcoming release of Hero's Journey. This is the third in a series of developer journals that we run every other Tuesday.

Y'see, I believe in the RPG in MMORPG. MMORPGs are not primarily twitch games. They are less about how fast you can aim and fire, and more about advancing a set of tools that you strategically employ. Sure, timing is involved -- when you aggro a creature, when you use a certain spell effect, monitoring your health and so on -- but it's not the same as an FPS or a fighting game like, say, Street Fighter or Dead or Alive 4: Whoa, Those Bosoms Sure Do Bounce a Lot.

Nor, I'd argue, should it be.

Course, that's a broad statement to make, but remember -- I'm still talking MMORPG here, not MMO. There are FPS MMOs, and that's fine and dandy if that's your cup of tea. But RPG entails something else, and much like when you sit down to read a fantasy book you expect to see a certain amount of a) magic b) dragons and c) angst-ridden elves, you don't expect an MMORPG to reward twitch skills. It's the wrong genre.

You can read her whole article here.

z80paranoia · March 2006

Good article. I'm definitely a solo player and I'm glad that you've hinted at the intent to make HJ solo friendly.

I personally would love to see an mmorpg that at least allowed twitch skill to determine whether you hit, miss, block, dodge, or parry someday with character ability determining how much damage you deal and mitigate when you hit or otherwise. Do I want hero's journey to be like that? No, I want hero's journey to be hero's journey. But it would be sweet to have an Action mmorpg that rewarded both time played and twitch skills.

evilkitty · March 2006

Excellent article! I hadn't really been following Hero's Journey since there are just so many games in development but I'll be following it now.

Apart from all those excellent points, the iceing on the cake was the Firefly reference ::::28::

Here's to putting the RPG back into MMO! ::::08::

Amathe · March 2006

I love the folks at HJ. I swear I do. Articles like this one convince me that they are making a game that centers around fun, instead of merely assembling some frankenstein monster of features such has become prevalent in the industry these days. The fact that Simultronics is fun oriented is what seperates them from the rest of the pack.

I can't wait to play!

_Shadowmage · March 2006

Articles like this one convince me the developers have no idea about role-playing. I had to read the article twice to find the hidden mention of role-playing.

quote= "Power rewarded according to time investment is what makes an MMORPG an RPG to me."

So according to this developer gaining levels is what makes a game a role-playing game. Well I have to say NO - playing a role and staying in character is role-playing. It doesnt matter whether you use a class/level or skill based system.

I think to have a RPG we need a lot more information on the world, its politics, religion etc so that we can play a role in the game. And role-playing is also about socialising I enjoy soloing, but I can assure you the trees dont care if I am role-playing or just wandering around killing everything in sight.

And the mindless chatter about cookies, or online romance , want to sell, want to buy etc doesnt help promote the role-playing either.

franksalbe · March 2006

WIKI definition of Role-Playing:In role-playing, participants adopt characters, or parts, that have personalities, motivations, and backgrounds different from their own. Role-playing is like being in an improvisational drama or free-form theatre, in which the participants are the actors who are playing parts.

Does this sound anything like i read in this dev journal i am not sure. Maybe i does to some and not to others.

Shadowmage has a point - time does not necessarly equal role playing all the time and leveling does not necessarily equal advancement all the time.

How about having a game where not only do players grow in strength but the NPC mobs do as well. How about a game where accomplishments add to more then just loot and shiny things. How about influence, power and status with the actually player populace and some arbitrary title just because i reach level 40 which eventually everyone else will achieve and in the end cheapen that satisfaction of that so called accomplishment.

How about given players true value ingame. I dont want to grind 50 bracers so i can make bracer version 2. but if i have to how about given me some resemblence that i am getting better by allowing me to vary the bracer type, color, etc. How about given us different forms of actually advancing, real puzzles that can be defeated, real riddles to decipher, real issues to find solutions for. Or combat that is strategic and involves everyone would be great. A fight doesnt necessarilly always have to end with the death of the opponent NPC or otherwise. I can take loot from an opponent that i put to sleep just as easily if they were dead.

How about we throw away the peverbial "BOX" since thinking anywhere near it inside or out doesnt work and start making some truly worthy games.

If developers would take the time to research gamers more indepth and then pick a concept that is either niche or one that everyone generally likes and dive into that concept to the very core. They would be able to spend more time cranking quality games to give them top dollar return. then hashing out half as games that end up hurting more then anything.

xDivianaDRx · March 2006

You're kidding right?

Considering a large percentage of us GMs have either worked on and/or played Simu's other ROLEPLAYING text games, I don't think you can say we don't know anything about roleplaying.

We're definitely not new to the roleplaying experience, and quite honestly, I don't think any other game will quite promote rp like Hero's Journey will.

But then again, you haven't seen the game like I have.

You know, you might get hooked on HJ like a lot of us here, (Especially us GMs because we know what is in store for you) or you might go on to another game, but in time you will hear everyone saying how good HJ is, and you'll be wishing you were there from the start. I'm not just saying this because I work on the game, I'm saying this because the game is absolutely amazing, and it is only getting better every day.

And I think what she meant by power wasn't levels (although I could be wrong) but instead influence over the game and the story as it progresses.. And have you read anything about the game? It has been said (I don't feel like finding the quote) that every class will have a service that the others will benefit from (out of combat), and all the cool moves you can do with your buddies in combat is enough to make me group, and I love soloing.. so there will be plenty of socializing..

..Okay I'm done.

_Shadowmage · March 2006

Okay - I read her other developer journals and see she has old school p&P role-playing experience like me, so I apologise if I was a little harsh.

Role-playing is a pet love and I guess I expected more talk about RP, and the possibilities for RP in the game than were actually mentioned in the article.

Personally I find it hard to role-play on my own - I mean whats the point?

I also read the E3 review from last year and see your game is heavily instanced - personally I think thats a great thing. I am currently playing Guild Wars which is totally instanced. I think the instances give you a lot more ability to deliver great quests. From the review it seems you have some great ideas for quests.

So maybe you can direct us to some more RP information for the game.

Thanks

Techleo · March 2006

What is power tho Shadowmage. Considering what developers stressed the questing system offers she may mean more then just ease of killing your prey. it can entail respect by your peers and your associates. When you take into consideration you gain access to missions due to your personal choices its not as if your seeking a single path to the end like WoW. Instead your treading on your lifes journey writing your own history. Therefore power is gained as you take time and tread down the path. Nothing wrong with that at all. Anyways there other elements of this discussion i dont have time for. I just dont like shadowmage i guess hehe.

_Shadowmage · March 2006

Nothing wrong with gaining power and prestige - I just disagree with that being equated with role playing.

And its a free world, so I also dont mind if you dont like me. I think anyone who expects everyone to like them is doomed to failure.

xDivianaDRx · March 2006

"Reward roleplay and support the people who like it. Discourage out of character actions on roleplay servers. Design a game that keeps roleplay in mind from the beginning. We want to build something that allows you to play the character you have in mind -- not the one we have in mind. One of our guiding principles in Hero's Journey game design has been that the characters are heroes (or anti-heroes). They should look the part. The game we're building reflects that."

-Stephanie Shaver

That is a quote that was on the Unofficial HJ FAQ (which I put in my sig so I can find it easily.. >>)

There have been discussions on the official boards about having RP awards like DR and GS do, I don't know if we'll do that or not, but possibly experience boosts if you stay in character and a gm notices, or maybe some fluff that lasts for a while.. (I like exp better..)

And all of our systems are being designed with roleplaying in mind.

And don't worry about instances, a lot of people do. Royce continually says that it will be like COH/COV NOT like Guild Wars.. But basically it will be quests that are instanced and that is all.. We don't want people ruining your quest because they did it right before you, and we don't want you being bothered while trying to complete it. We do want you to have fun and bring your friends.

Look around the Faq, I think it might need an update, but it's got a lot of easily found information.

simu-steph · March 2006

Originally posted by _Shadowmage
Okay - I read her other developer journals and see she has old school p&P role-playing experience like me, so I apologise if I was a little harsh.

Just a note, and I realize it may not have been apparent from the article -- I was referring to the RPG (Roleplaying Game) genre, not RP (Roleplay itself). The two things are (ironically) separate in my head. Go fig.

I have been in plenty of IRC rooms where RP was flawlessly executed by the people there. Heck, I've played turn-based website zombie armageddon games with more RP than some of the MMORPGs out there ("Mrh?"). You don't need a game to have RP. RP flourishes where it is encouraged; and yes, we intend to encourage it. Because we likes the RP at Simutronics. We likes it a lot, my precious.

The impetus for this dev diary was an article elsewhere that complained that MMORPGs unfairly reward time over skill. Obviously, I had some thoughts on the matter.

Perhaps the next dev diary we write will be entitled "Putting the RP back in RPG".

Amathe · March 2006

This seems like as good a place and time as any to weigh in on an issue that has bothered me for years.

Truth be told, if you could bring together all the Devs from all the fantasy mmorpgs in one room and poll them, I expect you would find that most of them have role played, most of them enjoy role playing, and most of them would like to see role playing flourish in the games they design. And yet, you see actual role playing less and less in these games. Only a tiny percentage of players do it anymore.

It isn't that the Devs don't give players the tools to roleplay. They do. The problem is that these games have become more and more about having things as opposed to doing things. For a huge percentage of the players, the game is about acquiring items, acquiring levels, and being able to say either "look at what I have that you don't", or at least be able to say "my stuff is as good as your stuff."

To get ahead, or to keep up with the Jonses, players have to do a lot of mindless, dreary, time consuming things that really don't lend themselves much to roleplay. Or, put another way, when a player is in the mindset of rushing to get ahead or keep pace, they don't feel like putting in any extra effort to play "in character." Besides, why bother? Your avatar is merely a generic coat hanger to drape items on. That's how most games are designed these days.

I believe that HJ will stimulate more roleplay than we have seen in many years, not because their Devs like it (because most Devs in most games do), and not because they provide special roleplay tools (because most games have adequate tools), but because: (1) the game is not as item centric; (2) the game is not as tedious; and (3) the excellent customization options foster a greater bond with your character to where you will want to have that character behave consistently with your unique vision of what that character was intended to be.

Point #3 is where the magic is! If you design the fantasy character of your dreams - the one you always wanted to play but have had to settle instead for cookie cutter approximations - then you are likewise inspired to play that character as you always imagined them.

So yes I absolutely agree that roleplaying will see a renaissance in HJ. I can finally make exactly the characters I have always wanted to play, and you bet I'm going to roleplay them to be sure that my friends experience those characters the way I have dreamed about them for decades.

lllco2lll · March 2006

Originally posted by Amathe
This seems like as good a place and time as any to weigh in on an issue that has bothered me for years.
Truth be told, if you could bring together all the Devs from all the fantasy mmorpgs in one room and poll them, I expect you would find that most of them have role played, most of them enjoy role playing, and most of them would like to see role playing flourish in the games they design. And yet, you see actual role playing less and less in these games. Only a tiny percentage of players do it anymore.
It isn't that the Devs don't give players the tools to roleplay. They do. The problem is that these games have become more and more about having things as opposed to doing things. For a huge percentage of the players, the game is about acquiring items, acquiring levels, and being able to say either "look at what I have that you don't", or at least be able to say "my stuff is as good as your stuff."
To get ahead, or to keep up with the Jonses, players have to do a lot of mindless, dreary, time consuming things that really don't lend themselves much to roleplay. Or, put another way, when a player is in the mindset of rushing to get ahead or keep pace, they don't feel like putting in any extra effort to play "in character." Besides, why bother? Your avatar is merely a generic coat hanger to drape items on. That's how most games are designed these days.
I believe that HJ will stimulate more roleplay than we have seen in many years, not because their Devs like it (because most Devs in most games do), and not because they provide special roleplay tools (because most games have adequate tools), but because: (1) the game is not as item centric; (2) the game is not as tedious; and (3) the excellent customization options foster a greater bond with your character to where you will want to have that character behave consistently with your unique vision of what that character was intended to be.
Point #3 is where the magic is! If you design the fantasy character of your dreams - the one you always wanted to play but have had to settle instead for cookie cutter approximations - then you are likewise inspired to play that character as you always imagined them.
So yes I absolutely agree that roleplaying will see a renaissance in HJ. I can finally make exactly the characters I have always wanted to play, and you bet I'm going to roleplay them to be sure that my friends experience those characters the way I have dreamed about them for decades.

Sniffles**
::::16:: Your post has made me feel happy with joy, just dreaming of what making my "True" character would feel like. However I hope it won't be like CoH where "I just wished my tail moved" or "I wish I had a scabbard." or "I wish I can put this collar with this shoulder piece together." hopefully.

But oddly even in CoH I barely saw any roleplaying.

I believe this goes back to Pychologically with something called "Operant Conditioning"

Due to the nature that no one would recieve any reward for roleplaying there would be no insentive to rp. But If people recieve a "Positive Reinforcement" (i.e. reward of xp for rp) it would become a trend to act out your character consistently to get rewarded. Which CoH failed to do when giving a choice of customization. really looking forward to HJ

_Shadowmage · March 2006

[quote]Originally posted by simu-steph

Perhaps the next dev diary we write will be entitled "Putting the RP back in RPG". [/b][/quote][/b]

I look forward to reading that article ::::28:: as that is what I thought I was going to be reading in the first place - and got grumpy over ::::16:: when I didnt find it ::::08::

Ryowulf · March 2006

I think the next big thing for MMORPG's is a non-static world. Like quests are still act like you are the one hero in the game, but 1000's other people did the quests before you.

You and those 1000's other kill bunnies all day, but there are always more bunnies. You sack a castle or kill a named npc, but 5 minutes late its back. I'd like to see players have an impact on the world they live in. Maybe bunnies numbers in one area go down. Maybe the castle over time becomes abandon then haunted.

Different servers would not all look the same as players interacted with the game differently. The game wouldn't act like I was the only hero around. CoH at least came up with a backstory as to why all those heroes were gathered in the city.

HJ-Saaren · March 2006

You'll all be pleasantly suprised to discover that one of the premier aspects of HJ is the backstory, the lore and the legend. It is something we as GM's have to assimilate and understand before ever laying our hands upon the awesome myriad, nae, cornocopia of worldbuilding tools at our disposal.

For one thing, the world that we are busy creating for you has a long and rich history anyway, one that emerges from the worlds of both GemStone (http://play.net/gs4) and DragonRealms (http://play.net/dr). Both of which happen to be incredible examples of real RP and, both of which, if you have not * or are not * trying these amazing text based adventures -- simply toddle off and do so whilst we build your uber fantasy realm (fries with that? pull forward.).

Both games lend plenty in theory and design to the foundation that is Heroes Journey. The backstory contains an incredibly detailed history of the world of Elanthia and the dark events that shaped its currrent state - it will be up to you to decide where it goes from there.

And another thing I'd like to point out is that the history of Simutronics has always been to reward RP and those that engage in it within their games. A huge team of GM's will be working behind the scenes around the clock to help make the experience of Elanthia one that sticks and the primary motivation - the essence of pleasure we get is knowing that players are enjoying what we have created - its an incredible and rewarding experience.

The thing is, its still important to bring something to the graphical front that is MMORPG's today that is fresh and innovative, yet deals with the many issues that the games in this genre face, the camping, the lack of real social or interpersonal interaction, the 'hit A and pray' combat systems and the hordes of nearly identical avatars standing woodenly about barely discernable one from the other.

We're doing away with all that, and we're bringing you that fresh approach that is not arbitrary, its built upon the careful observation and participation of what the genre has to offer, and more years of experience than anyone else in online persistent world fantasy.

So it's up to you, solo, group, grind, sit around and RP, stand in front of a mirror and try on all your cool clothes and gear. Play over your lunch, your evening, your weekend, your vacation, your retirement. Point is, when you are here, you have fun. Then you will come back again and again because your avatar will not merely be some grindwheel of skills and phat lewt, it will be a creation of yours it will be an alter ego it will be a role - you - play.

And, gleefully, we will be able to continue entertaining you and you can help us shape what will certainly be the greatest online adventure ever created.

I've personally been waiting for a graphical game from Simutronics for years, and to be a building GM on HJ is an honor and a privledge parallelled only by the notion that someday soon, coming to a world near you, I'll be able to share it with all of you.

And may you never be the same MMORPG gamer again.

Back to designing that hole you will fall into with all the ravenous fanged creat...er...I mean the market, yes, the market.

marct · March 2006

My difficulty with this and the last Dev. Journal is that Stephanie appears to be talking for Stephanie. She is relating her personal experience and personal preferences.

That is all great, but if this is her opinion, that does not mean that it is how the game wil be going. If it is how Simutronics feels about Hero's Journey, then maybe Stephanie should change her writing style to indicate that this is how "we are developing Hero's Journey at Simutronics" instead of how "I (Stephanie) feels about this topic.

Is this a Dev. Journal or an editorial? What are you working on Stephanie? Tell us about the things you have been challenged with in the last two weeks. Tell us about the GM development process, tell us about the difficult things that are being discussed but not finalized(tm).

I am wishing for more when I read these Dev. Journals. The game is probably 6-12 months from production and everything is very very vague still? Is there anything more substantial?

marc.

marct · March 2006

Originally posted by Amathe
It isn't that the Devs don't give players the tools to roleplay. They do. The problem is that these games have become more and more about having things as opposed to doing things. For a huge percentage of the players, the game is about acquiring items, acquiring levels, and being able to say either "look at what I have that you don't", or at least be able to say "my stuff is as good as your stuff."
To get ahead, or to keep up with the Jonses, players have to do a lot of mindless, dreary, time consuming things that really don't lend themselves much to roleplay. Or, put another way, when a player is in the mindset of rushing to get ahead or keep pace, they don't feel like putting in any extra effort to play "in character." Besides, why bother? Your avatar is merely a generic coat hanger to drape items on. That's how most games are designed these days.

In my experience, this is just about right on. If you eliminate "Items" explicitly and make it so that the things you garner from challenges "fit the challenge". The rewards from a challenge then must be melded, crafted, analyzed to make them useful for the character. If these processes need to be performed through other playing cahracters to get the benefit out of the reward then this process is greatly changed. To the side of needing to interact and play your role.

To take this further, interacting with multiple different characters should be of a benefit too. In HJ terms as I understand them, a sword will not have abilites but will gain abilites. If you need a smith, or a wizard, or a mentor to impart these from the knowledge or item you have unto the sword. I would think that having multiple different of these types of people work on your sword over time to be to your advantage, thus ending up with the best from each person, and shaving off the less than desireable abilities of your sword. In this case, the same person crafting and enhancing your sword would possibly not have the ability to notice the flaws in their workmanship.

All of this helps contribute to fostering community and need. Bunnies should not drop swords, they should not wield swords, etc. They should bite you or kick you, or something. And when you kill them you should get fur, eyes, or rabbit's feet, etc.

Just my opinion in how to get the achievers to get more involved with other players. Not all of those other players will role play their character, but some will. The more you encourage interaction, the more it will happen.

marc.

Techleo · March 2006

I apologize to ya Shadowmage. Honestly you made some good points. Your stance on Instancing is the same as mine as well. It just opens so many options. I just cant wait to hear more about the backstory of this game hehe.

ACBandito · March 2006

I now have a huge crush on Steph, any girl with that sense of humor wins my heart...plus she games. Ahh...I'm a fool. But I agree, I play RPG 'cus I love to roleplay. I get an awsome PvP charecter, pretend I'm a unforgiving warlord of ultimate destruction, own lots of people, make name or myself, and create a gang to raid with. I still think, Asheron's Call had the best PvP server system, and Pre-Bad Starwars had the best RP.

Oh...and PLEASE not too much instancing...I feel yoy lose the reality of a game, Once again, AC was amazing, PvP servers, you go itno town and anti-pvp guilds ran it, you go PvP, you get hunted down, so you go into teh forests, deserts, find amazing dungeons and quests you never knew existed. It really creates a world, instead of a buncha boxes, all with differant little things, knowing no matter what if you head in one direction long enough, you'll get out.

franksalbe · March 2006

Diviana,

You have to understand from the stand point of customers (this will always include new potential customers like me and old one's)

Now this Dev journal Starts off with talking about RPG in MMO but more then 80% of her reference is all about combat and bunnies...

I do Understand the certain metaphors she tries to relay, but her description of RPG was heavily centered on time and combat examples.

In your short response you told me more about the RPG format being used in HJ then in the whole Dev Journal written here. That is why i replied as so.

The larger a customer base becomes the more specifically you have to target them. The post took on a kind of tone that implies we read some of her previous post which will not be so in all the cases.

I challenged the Journal to have it clarified. I so happen to know one of the GM's from gemstone and he already got me excited about the game.

HJ-Rowell · March 2006

I think the biggest point of contention that I'm seeing is the ever-present difference between Role Playing (RP) and Role Playing Games (RPGs). Intrinsicly, it's almost impossible for any game to allow for real Role Playing, without interaction from other players/humans. (computer) RPGs are simply the best immitation of what Role Playing is, in an electronic format. An RPG is completely incapable of handling the unlimited choices and paths that a player can come up with. They do their best to emulate Role Playing though. I mean, when you've played tabletop D&D (or any other tabletop RPG), and you hear the entire gaming industry call Diablo an RPG, you have to scoff...at least a little.

What Stephanie was trying to address, was how Hero's Journey, as an RPG, tries to tackle some of the aspects of character advancement from a gaming system point of view. Things that can be quantified in 1's and 0's on the server. That would include your quest paths, you standing with all the different groups and factions, who your nemisis is, etc. You're not simply pigeon-holed into "Player: Human Ranger Level: 15 Assign Quest X2-492" type of thing. I saw, from the article, that there were a variety of different play style, all equally supported, so that if you wanted to solo, you could without being penalized.

Now, what I don't think was mentioned in great depth in the article, was the Role Play aspect. RP and Computer RPGs are two totally seperate things (IMHO. I still think Diablo-esque type games being called RPGs is silly)...the MMO's that I've seen offer you a very limited scope of options that your character can take over its lifetime. I mean, there are a set number of quests, that you usually take in order, depending on your level. In most MMO's today, you are primarily defined by your level, and then by your loot. The server can do the best it can to use the game system to give the player's character its own sense of advancement (whatever that may be). That still does not rule out the ability for non-server specific advancement in real Role Play with other players. Sometimes, the rewards from those activities can be better than gaining a level, getting a new item, attaining a new rank, or what have you.

Hmm....now where was I going with this? Ah yes...the Dev Journal. I think the examples used to outline the point of the dev journal were heard louder than the actual message. The major points were that players were being allowed the freedom to party up or solo, without penalties; that players could log in for as little as 10 minutes and still accomplish things in the game; that players would be rewarded with the investment of time growing their characters, as opposed to simply being awarded for their level of "twitchiness". And of course, there's always the opportunity for some encouraged RP.

I hope I didnt ramble on too much.

Off to find my source of caffeine now.

_Shadowmage · March 2006

I find to role-play well I need some help in the form of background information on world, religions, politics etc so that I can develop my motivation for my character.

So aside from class, levels and power - they give me a goal to advance, but I personally need more.

If I am playing a priest for instance its more than having the name of the diety I worship.
- What are that deities areas of influence?
- Who are their enemies?
- how do they fit into the political structure of the nation / region I am in?
- do they provide charity to the poor?
- do they have internal power struggles?
- can I advance in the church heirarchy?
- can I convert unbelievers to our faith?
- are their certain things I am forbidden to do - marriage, eat certain foods, wear certain color clothing
- Are their restrictions on skills and spells I can learn.

Best system I saw for this was the old Pen and Paper role-playing game Runequest. Where being a member of a religion provided benefits and restrictions in skills and spells, you could be a lay member, initiate, or priest. The various religions had allied and enemy dieties, and even races the did or didnt like.

So as for a dream character I have always wanted to play a Shaolin - warrior monk. So does your system support martial arts, unarmed combat etc.

hj-sylveria · March 2006

Originally posted by marct

My difficulty with this and the last Dev. Journal is that Stephanie appears to be talking for Stephanie. She is relating her personal experience and personal preferences.
That is all great, but if this is her opinion, that does not mean that it is how the game wil be going. If it is how Simutronics feels about Hero's Journey, then maybe Stephanie should change her writing style to indicate that this is how "we are developing Hero's Journey at Simutronics" instead of how "I (Stephanie) feels about this topic.
Is this a Dev. Journal or an editorial? What are you working on Stephanie? Tell us about the things you have been challenged with in the last two weeks. Tell us about the GM development process, tell us about the difficult things that are being discussed but not finalized(tm).
I am wishing for more when I read these Dev. Journals. The game is probably 6-12 months from production and everything is very very vague still? Is there anything more substantial?
marc.

I met Stephanie when we were roleplayers together, many years ago before we were hired as gamemasters. She is one of the most dynamic roleplayers I've met, not to mention one of the best code writers that Simutronics has had.

I view this journal as a chance for readers to get to know the folks who work behind the scenes, as each of us has ideas that go into delivering a great game. The obvious advantage of this is learning how the developer's game experiences help shape the principles of game play, something you don't usually get to glimpse unless you're in the staff meeting.

The bells and whistles themselves are in a constant state of evolution, so talking about them at this juncture may be pointless -- a better idea will change those devilish details and touch upon other bells and whistles that will also mutate...right into beta. Besides...why should we deliver our secrets to our competition?

As for whether Stephanie writes for herself or Simutronics...if her viewpoints ran contrary to the company's she wouldn't be writing them in the first place.

eburn · March 2006

Eh... EH! Freakin' eh.

Okay I saw the topic, clicked it to read it like I have so many other HJ topics around MMORPG.com and other sites. Hoping to see and hear more about all the plus' HJ has presented to me, as a MMO player. I didn't see that in this Dev Journal. Actually, some of the language in Ms. Shaver's entry really has that downward spiral tone to it so many MMOs before now have offered about at this point.

I'll discuss.

PUTS THE RPG BACK INTO THE MMO GENRE! WOOOHHOOO!! Speaks right to me, in fact I was almost coerced like a few of the other posters and just thank Ms. Shaver for placing that comment out there in bold font size=5 yellow text. I decided to read since I got some free time.

Then horror strikes with this comment, and I quote; "Y'see, I believe in the RPG in MMORPG. MMORPGs are not primarily twitch games. They are less about how fast you can aim and fire, and more about advancing a set of tools that you strategically employ. Sure, timing is involved -- when you aggro a creature, when you use a certain spell effect, monitoring your health and so on -- but it's not the same as an FPS or a fighting game like, say, Street Fighter or Dead or Alive 4: Whoa, Those Bosoms Sure Do Bounce a Lot.

Nor, I'd argue, should it be."

To me, RPG isn't in the game's mechanics. I've role-played with friends playing table top games before and never rolled a single die. Why, we've even put on fake wrestling shows on video.. Let me explain... Okay the WWE games with create-a-wrestler features have let my pals and I pretty much create an avatar to use in a safe video game environment so we don't actually put each other through tables. We'd dress up, shoot our interviews pre and post match and pretend to be wrestlers letting our in game fighting do the talkin' then we'd trash talk after it.

I want to see the argument actually.

"Nor, I'd argue, should it be." Ms. Shaver states.

Why can't it be? Are people who do twitch combat just too 1337 in the developer's eyes of HJ to role-play their characters and become emerged into a gaming environment?
I argue RPG isn't point click game play that depends solely on where you put the points or what phat loot someone happens to find. WHICH, from all the documentation previously before this post, HJ seemed to agree with.

Now I read a developer wants a point and click take it easy game after I saw basic footage of strategic group placement to pull off combo moves. After I saw drag and execute spells that could be creatively implemented by a player in possible situations the developers themselves may not have previously thought of.

Twitch isn't anti-RP.

Not putting TWITCH into the game mechanics isn't freaking putting RPG back into MMORPGs.

Animations allowing players to hold hands. Hey, that'd be cool.
Allowing varying sized character models the ability to just chill with their legs hanging off a dock at the bay.
Playhouses can be borrowed and used to charge admission to see bards perform in game.
Maybe more about the nemesis system. Like, if you party with a certain player quite often have a cross instance where your allotted NPC nemeses would attack them and claim to be doing so to get revenge on me as a player.
How about, RPing via nemesis placement. As a rogue will I be the antagonist to a greedy law enforcement type NPC? Would that make the brave and celebrated warrior who parties with me guilty by association and maybe an instance where bounty hunters will charge him for the crime happen?

This article spoke nothing about RPG in MMORPGS. Just gave me an absolutely horrifying look into what 'could' develop over time that'll change the game I was already expecting.

You can twitch, point click, RPG, and wrap it all up into one game. I thought HJ was going to do just that, but.. Looks like one developer has noticed the key words to just excite a key number of us MMO players severely looking for a game that'll cater to us RPGers. Don't worry about the mechanics, you get the RP enforcement in and get all the lil' extras we RPers have wished for since Ultima and by God we'll play it. Just saying.. "We're making a dumbed down simple system and you guys can RP around it." Is exactly what CoH and a few other games have done and boy they lacked not only creative and complex game play, but RP opp, and a reason to pay for it for more than a month after capping.

Surprise me HJ, and please don't go off topic than what's stated in the journal's synopsis as poorly as this one did again. There was NOTHING catering to role-playing in this entry. Nothing.

To be more correct it should have read: "I think MMOs shouldn't be twitch because it makes me think much."

I do mean to be a lil' harsh. LoL But seriously, I love everything I see of HJ thus far. Don't deviate from it much. SWG made awesome promises, that weren't kept. The almighty WoW said there'd be gambling on the boats and action in the sky while travelling via gryphon that to help keep travel interesting, instead they just made it quick. I don't wanna see that with HJ. It just spoke to me as a RPGer and an MMORPG player since fall of last year and if any more journals follow the rotue #3 seems to be heading then I'm at a lost and will have to skim again.

Howdy, Stranger!

Hero's Journey: Dev Journal #3: RPG in MMO

Comments

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Hero's Journey: Dev Journal #3: RPG in MMO

Comments