If BDO were F2P, that wouldn't be too much of an issue, I think, since you at least had your fun for free. But since it's B2P, it may or may not be an issue depending on whether or not you think you got your money's worth. (At least thanks to B2P, Daum's got your money either way for this version)
$30 barely buys you movie tickets for two, and that's without the pop corn and drink. On top of that, there is also no guarantee that you will enjoy said movie. BDO, or most any MMORPG for that matter, buys you at minimum days, and in many cases weeks if not months, of entertainment for that same $30. The sense of entitlement is strong in the MMORPG entertainment industry. Quite disturbing when you really think about it.
There's just so much to do every time I log in sometimes I don't know where to start. That's the best part of the game.
And I have no illusion that the PvP is the end game and that I need to git gud in it. I'm prepared to do it, as I love PvP anyway. I also have no illusion that I won't be contending with the top dogs, but I hope there will be enough people on my level of play that I can have fun.
That's the problem - there won't be people at your level of play and it will be incredibly difficult to catch up. Post 50 leveling takes a really long time and levels make a big difference in PvP. Skill points you can continue earning for a very long time even once you hit 55 since the cap for that is so huge you're likely to never get there, and those too make a big difference. Gear of course makes a huge difference and again, maxing out your gear is near impossible (once cap is raised to +20 like in KR, JP, and RU, you will just cry). So those that can grind more each week and continue to grind more each week will always be ahead. You will never catch up. The overall PvP playerbase is already above 50 and geared and they will as a whole just continue to get higher level and more geared as the game goes on because there are no caps to stop their progression and allow people like you to catch up. You will not catch up. If you try to get into PvP later in this game, you will be miserable. You just can't do it.
So you can do boring sandboxy activities until you get bored of those and then leave the game. Because actually getting into the truly niche endgame is something you do at launch in this game or get left behind. Anybody who played or at least paid attention to KR, JP, and RU already knows that.
And like others have said, if you're not into the very niche idea of playing a casual sandboxy game, or the niche idea of a hardcore grind OWPvP MMO, this game is not for you. The average MMORPG player who enjoys story based games, themepark PvE progression and PvP game modes with hard caps on progression that are not hard to reach, will not find a home here (i.e. siege PvP, OwPvP, arenas, battlegrounds - in games with a hard cap on levels that is easy to reach, max rank gear that is reasonable to earn, etc.)
Black Desert is niche and that's fine. Those that fill that niche can enjoy something for them. But the reality is, most players do not truly realize what this game is and once they do, many will quit. The only reason it's received any reaction right now is a)it's the only major new game being released (BNS is old news, years old), b) few have done proper research on this game, and c)progression takes longer in this game than others, so the "get max and realize you don't like it" syndrome takes longer.
Nice write up but what you are failing to realize and take into consideration is that MMORPGs are very flexible and developers make changes to account for issues that surface that result in the emergence of falling demographics. To be clear, there are metrics that alert developers when systems are failing and changes need to be made. What you have done with your post is recognize what most PvE-centric players have been saying all along. And that is that the PvP-centric mechanics in the game, as they are, will hurt the game unless changes are made.
When developers come to the realization that change to the PvP game play model needs changing, which you so clearly alluded will become clear by monitoring said metrics in the game, you can be certain that changes will be forthcoming. It happens in the vast majority of MMORPGs that feature non-consensual OWPvP, and BDO will be no different. Long story short, nothing but good will come to the game when what you explain in your post becomes inevitably more clear, and when it does the game will be all the better for it.
PvP is not a problem. PvP is a fun and integral part of MMORPG's and works well in a lot of games. It works to a degree here but as I stated has some core design flaws in this particular game and how they've done it. But so does the PvE. The sandboxy activities are boring and will not be fun for people forever. Either way, the game was intentionally designed as is in the vein of older, traditional open world games. It's a model we've seen before.
But it's just not a game model that appeals to the masses, and that was my point. People have not yet realized that due to the depth of this game and how long it takes to do anything. But once they do, they won't all stay.
If BDO were F2P, that wouldn't be too much of an issue, I think, since you at least had your fun for free. But since it's B2P, it may or may not be an issue depending on whether or not you think you got your money's worth. (At least thanks to B2P, Daum's got your money either way for this version)
$30 barely buys you movie tickets for two, and that's without the pop corn and drink. On top of that, there is also no guarantee that you will enjoy said movie. BDO, or most any MMORPG for that matter, buys you at minimum days, and in many cases weeks if not months, of entertainment for that same $30. The sense of entitlement is strong in the MMORPG entertainment industry. Quite disturbing when you really think about it.
Well, there's a reason why I said "whether or not you think you got your money's worth" instead of "whether or not I think I got my money's worth." For some people, $30 for a few months of MMORPG entertainment is worth it, and for others, it isn't. Maybe they're entitled or maybe they're not. It honestly doesn't matter to me whether they count as entitled or not, anyways (at least for purposes of this discussion).
Simple, the Cash Shop, right the opposite of the AA P2W rip-off.
People complains about how expansive the Costumes are, which is true to a degree, but if you think how many P2W items Daum took out the EU/NA version of the game compared to the KR and RU, it is a compromise that I am willing to accept. And it is paying good in terms of image. The game has its flaws, but the biggest aggravating factor of the last few years in the MMO industry is dealt with handsomely.
Nice write up but what you are failing to realize and take into consideration is that MMORPGs are very flexible and developers make changes to account for issues that surface that result in the emergence of falling demographics. To be clear, there are metrics that alert developers when systems are failing and changes need to be made. What you have done with your post is recognize what most PvE-centric players have been saying all along. And that is that the PvP-centric mechanics in the game, as they are, will hurt the game unless changes are made.
When developers come to the realization that change to the PvP game play model needs changing, which you so clearly alluded will become clear by monitoring said metrics in the game, you can be certain that changes will be forthcoming. It happens in the vast majority of MMORPGs that feature non-consensual OWPvP, and BDO will be no different. Long story short, nothing but good will come to the game when what you explain in your post becomes inevitably more clear, and when it does the game will be all the better for it.
PvP is not a problem. PvP is a fun and integral part of MMORPG's and works well in a lot of games. It works to a degree here but as I stated has some core design flaws in this particular game and how they've done it. But so does the PvE. The sandboxy activities are boring and will not be fun for people forever. Either way, the game was intentionally designed as is in the vein of older, traditional open world games. It's a model we've seen before.
But it's just not a game model that appeals to the masses, and that was my point. People have not yet realized that due to the depth of this game and how long it takes to do anything. But once they do, they won't all stay.
Your rationale only makes sense under the assumption that every one feels the same way you do about the sandboxy activites of the game being boring and not fun for people forever. Monitoring the various forums I can confidently state that there are a good majority of PvE players who are clamoring for exactly that, a game comprised of nothing but the sandboxy activities of BDO minus the PvP.
BDO doesn't have to appeal to the masses to be successful. Most MMORPGs nowadays do not and still are able to achieve a measure of success. That said, BDO can easily implement the addition of open world dungeons, and other PvE end game activities present in other PvE-centric MMORPGs, and that combined with the large variety of PvE activites present in the game now would easily make it the most in-depth and content filled PvE-centric MMORPG on the market right now. If that doesn't guarantee success, I don't know what will. Stating that "once people realize the depth and how long it takes them to do anything, they won't all stay" is an assumption on your part. You are, of course, entitled to an opinion based on your own game play preferences, but it's never a good thing to assume everybody else will feel the same.
PvP is not a problem. PvP is a fun and integral part of MMORPG's and works well in a lot of games. It works to a degree here but as I stated has some core design flaws in this particular game and how they've done it. But so does the PvE. The sandboxy activities are boring and will not be fun for people forever. Either way, the game was intentionally designed as is in the vein of older, traditional open world games. It's a model we've seen before.
But it's just not a game model that appeals to the masses, and that was my point. People have not yet realized that due to the depth of this game and how long it takes to do anything. But once they do, they won't all stay.
I'm going to have to agree with LacedOpium, there's a lot of opinion here that simply states "I think therefore it is".
I mean, anything in any game can be taken as "boring". But clearly there are games out there that have devoted followers. Heck, I can no longer play Lord of the Rings Online because I think Turbine has essentially driven the game right down the center of "humdrum street" but yet it has a devoted following.
As far as taking a "long time" to do anything, some people like this. I know I do.
The only real issue here is whether or not the developers were realistic in knowing who would like this game and how many people would stick with the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
PvP is not a problem. PvP is a fun and integral part of MMORPG's and works well in a lot of games. It works to a degree here but as I stated has some core design flaws in this particular game and how they've done it. But so does the PvE. The sandboxy activities are boring and will not be fun for people forever. Either way, the game was intentionally designed as is in the vein of older, traditional open world games. It's a model we've seen before.
But it's just not a game model that appeals to the masses, and that was my point. People have not yet realized that due to the depth of this game and how long it takes to do anything. But once they do, they won't all stay.
I'm going to have to agree with LacedOpium, there's a lot of opinion here that simply states "I think therefore it is".
I mean, anything in any game can be taken as "boring". But clearly there are games out there that have devoted followers. Heck, I can no longer play Lord of the Rings Online because I think Turbine has essentially driven the game right down the center of "humdrum street" but yet it has a devoted following.
As far as taking a "long time" to do anything, some people like this. I know I do.
The only real issue here is whether or not the developers were realistic in knowing who would like this game and how many people would stick with the game.
yeah as a general rule I hate playing pvp execpt in some cases and I have thousands of hours into 'sandboxy' games and said game activities and i find that not only 'fun' but more fun for me than pvp
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
BDO doesn't have to appeal to the masses to be successful. Most MMORPGs nowadays do not and still are able to achieve a measure of success. That said, BDO can easily implement the addition of open world dungeons, and other PvE end game activities present in other PvE-centric MMORPGs, and that combined with the large variety of PvE activites present in the game now would easily make it the most in-depth and content filled PvE-centric MMORPG on the market right now. If that doesn't guarantee success, I don't know what will. Stating that "once people realize the depth and how long it takes them to do anything, they won't all stay" is an assumption on your part. You are, of course, entitled to an opinion based on your own game play preferences, but it's never a good thing to assume everybody else will feel the same.
Its better if they play on their strengths and put all effort on improving what makes Black Desert unique instead of trying to replicate what themepark games have. If it was easy to implement open world dungeons and other PvE endgame activities we would never run out of that stuff in a themepark game and I can assure you that Black Desert would have that sort of content already.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I'm casually enjoying the game, but I am not going to pretend like the game suffers from several problems.
I think the biggest issue is that they have all this busy work but no end goal. So you connected nodes, fished, mined, farmed, gathered components, crafted a bunch of crap, now what? They created a good framework, but seemed to run out of time or ideas or both. Maybe it'll be enough to keep some people's attention and I'm not expecting an endgame gear grind, but it still seems like it's missing something.
Exploration feels pointlessl to me for the same reason. You have this beautiful world (even though it's mostly forests and grassy field), but no real reason to explore except for the sake of exploring. I would totally go searching for hidden caverns and rare monsters if it meant I had a chance at some rare loot. I don't mean something suoer powerful but at least something that allowed me to stand out from the crowd. Unfortunately this game decided customization ends at character select and so even if I got a new chest piece from a rare mob or treasure chest all I may end up getting is a few extra pointa of DP. Most likely I'll just end up selling it.
The community is the worst part. Acting superior to anyine who criticises their precious game. It's actually the biggest reason I question whether this is a game I want to continue playing. You either consider the game flawless or you just don't get it. Discussions aren't allowed unless it includes fanboy rants about how amazing the game is and anyone who disagree is chased away with pitchforks. Really the worst community I've ever dealt with outside of Eve.
Comments
$30 barely buys you movie tickets for two, and that's without the pop corn and drink. On top of that, there is also no guarantee that you will enjoy said movie. BDO, or most any MMORPG for that matter, buys you at minimum days, and in many cases weeks if not months, of entertainment for that same $30. The sense of entitlement is strong in the MMORPG entertainment industry. Quite disturbing when you really think about it.
But it's just not a game model that appeals to the masses, and that was my point. People have not yet realized that due to the depth of this game and how long it takes to do anything. But once they do, they won't all stay.
People complains about how expansive the Costumes are, which is true to a degree, but if you think how many P2W items Daum took out the EU/NA version of the game compared to the KR and RU, it is a compromise that I am willing to accept.
And it is paying good in terms of image.
The game has its flaws, but the biggest aggravating factor of the last few years in the MMO industry is dealt with handsomely.
Your rationale only makes sense under the assumption that every one feels the same way you do about the sandboxy activites of the game being boring and not fun for people forever. Monitoring the various forums I can confidently state that there are a good majority of PvE players who are clamoring for exactly that, a game comprised of nothing but the sandboxy activities of BDO minus the PvP.
BDO doesn't have to appeal to the masses to be successful. Most MMORPGs nowadays do not and still are able to achieve a measure of success. That said, BDO can easily implement the addition of open world dungeons, and other PvE end game activities present in other PvE-centric MMORPGs, and that combined with the large variety of PvE activites present in the game now would easily make it the most in-depth and content filled PvE-centric MMORPG on the market right now. If that doesn't guarantee success, I don't know what will. Stating that "once people realize the depth and how long it takes them to do anything, they won't all stay" is an assumption on your part. You are, of course, entitled to an opinion based on your own game play preferences, but it's never a good thing to assume everybody else will feel the same.
I think the demand for all three of those qualities together can not be underestimated (at least for now)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I mean, anything in any game can be taken as "boring". But clearly there are games out there that have devoted followers. Heck, I can no longer play Lord of the Rings Online because I think Turbine has essentially driven the game right down the center of "humdrum street" but yet it has a devoted following.
As far as taking a "long time" to do anything, some people like this. I know I do.
The only real issue here is whether or not the developers were realistic in knowing who would like this game and how many people would stick with the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That is all.
It is nothing special for all the attention it has been receiving.
I think the biggest issue is that they have all this busy work but no end goal. So you connected nodes, fished, mined, farmed, gathered components, crafted a bunch of crap, now what? They created a good framework, but seemed to run out of time or ideas or both. Maybe it'll be enough to keep some people's attention and I'm not expecting an endgame gear grind, but it still seems like it's missing something.
Exploration feels pointlessl to me for the same reason. You have this beautiful world (even though it's mostly forests and grassy field), but no real reason to explore except for the sake of exploring. I would totally go searching for hidden caverns and rare monsters if it meant I had a chance at some rare loot. I don't mean something suoer powerful but at least something that allowed me to stand out from the crowd. Unfortunately this game decided customization ends at character select and so even if I got a new chest piece from a rare mob or treasure chest all I may end up getting is a few extra pointa of DP. Most likely I'll just end up selling it.
The community is the worst part. Acting superior to anyine who criticises their precious game. It's actually the biggest reason I question whether this is a game I want to continue playing. You either consider the game flawless or you just don't get it. Discussions aren't allowed unless it includes fanboy rants about how amazing the game is and anyone who disagree is chased away with pitchforks. Really the worst community I've ever dealt with outside of Eve.
edit: Oh, and for combat, it has good "fireworks" effects that overwhelm the player.
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2024: 47 years on the Net.