Originally posted by jgankum Sorry, but you do pay $20 more to get the Monopoly set with crystal peices or the special edition sets etc...
Okay, well, your Monopoly analogy is terrible. MisterJaw was saying that one player doesn't pay extra for an advantage. Your example is closer to saying that you pay more for EQ2 than EQ.
Where the hell do you live? You want cable, pay 20 bucks. You want digital pay 40 bucks, High Def pay 50! You want options on your car, pay. Bigger seats, faster service, better service. Pay pay pay. I dont get penis envy just because my neighbor has digital tv. I just become his frind and watch at his house. That whole "elitest" arguement is just crap.
This sounds kind of elitist to me. "Where the hell do you live?" That almost sounds like a way of saying, "You must be poor." This argument is also invalid because you can't go watch your neighbor's proverbial TV. They paid for better content and you didn't. There's no sharing.
You have no clue about markets and how they drive prices. You think MMOG's are different than any other market in the "free" world? It's time for you to wake up and smell the capitolism.
This topic was comparing the pricing of most MMORPG's to the pricing of Simutronic's text-based games. You're not paying attention. Other successful MMORPG's all follow the same pricing standards, and we were discussing/worrying/complaining about whether or not HJ will.
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx In DR and GS, having a higher priced account doesn't get you ANYTHING that benefits your character so you level faster, or any special items. (alterations do not count, because non premie can get items altered too)There are lots of convieniences, like owning a house, or closer hunting areas, or more vault space, but none of that makes your character physically better than another. They're mostly just bragging rights.
Conveniences equate to less time wasted on things like moving from Point A to Point B. To most MMORPG players, time = experience. Bragging rights can also lead to to elitist additudes, especially in MMORPG's.
And you can argue that closer hunting grounds can make a difference, but most people just "move" to the area they need to hunt at until they are done there. There is still a community around, and there isn't anything permanently disabling them. They can also travel back to their "home" city if they want to, and at the MOST it will take a few hours, but mostly a few minutes.
Huh? A few hours? Hours, minutes, it doesn't really matter anyway. Time is time. This is how MMORPG players view it: time = experience experience = power more money = more time (because less is "wasted" travelling) money = power If you pay more, then you'll be more powerful in the longrun.
I however would pay more for a really good rp server. Not much, but enough to discourage those who really don't wanna rp.
I like to RP, but I wouldn't want to pay extra for it. At the same time, though, I can understand this argument. As long as there's no difference to the gameplay, then I don't have a problem.
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx The only reason I EVER wanted to go premie was because of the houses and extra vault space..And I STILL don't have a house. Isn't that sad?
So what you're saying is that you payed extra for something that you never even got. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Oh, and a house (if it has any function other than just appearance) and extra vault space are advantages. Don't you think that being able to store a larger variety of weapons and items is an advantage?
Originally posted by jgankum As I said in a earlier post, I would prefer to pay less but I am not making judgments on tiered pricing until I know what that entails. Huge assumptions on my part, sorry
I think I agree with this.
If paying more affects gameplay in even the slightest way (closer hunting grounds, houses, bragging rights, etc.) then I will not be a happy camper. Depending on how much it affects the game, I might not even play. If there is an elite server, then I won't care because I won't be on it.
So far, I have heard that we will be able to get player houses, and that we will be able to get guild halls, and we will be able to get private guild hunting grounds. They have never said that these will be only for those who have deeper pockets.
Also, it was Melissa who said that having tier pricing was something she'd like to have in HJ, but she is leaving Simutronics soon, and we still haven't heard anyone else's stance on the matter.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
This thread is getting out of hand in every board out there
You get what you pay for.
I can see the headlines now, " Simu fans clash on the street in a bloody riot concerning speculation of pricing for a game called Hero's Journey " 3 Dead, 27 injured
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage Originally posted by jgankum Sorry, but you do pay $20 more to get the Monopoly set with crystal peices or the special edition sets etc...
Okay, well, your Monopoly analogy is terrible. MisterJaw was saying that one player doesn't pay extra for an advantage. Your example is closer to saying that you pay more for EQ2 than EQ.
Where the hell do you live? You want cable, pay 20 bucks. You want digital pay 40 bucks, High Def pay 50! You want options on your car, pay. Bigger seats, faster service, better service. Pay pay pay. I dont get penis envy just because my neighbor has digital tv. I just become his frind and watch at his house. That whole "elitest" arguement is just crap.
This sounds kind of elitist to me. "Where the hell do you live?" That almost sounds like a way of saying, "You must be poor." This argument is also invalid because you can't go watch your neighbor's proverbial TV. They paid for better content and you didn't. There's no sharing.
You have no clue about markets and how they drive prices. You think MMOG's are different than any other market in the "free" world? It's time for you to wake up and smell the capitolism.
This topic was comparing the pricing of most MMORPG's to the pricing of Simutronic's text-based games. You're not paying attention. Other successful MMORPG's all follow the same pricing standards, and we were discussing/worrying/complaining about whether or not HJ will.
Thanks for taking over, lol. I don't think you'll have much luck getting through though. Five bucks says he critiques the way you argue or claims you didn't read what he wrote thoroughly enough.
Originally posted by Shroom_Mage If paying more affects gameplay in even the slightest way (closer hunting grounds, houses, bragging rights, etc.) then I will not be a happy camper. Depending on how much it affects the game, I might not even play. If there is an elite server, then I won't care because I won't be on it.
I took twenty minutes to type out a huge post... My ISP disconnected me... I hate those sons of bitches...
Anyway, it basicly said "Archaos=Good, jgankum=Bad". I'll put some of the other stuff on here.
They shouldn't make you buy additional character slots to have more than one character. If they want to do that, they should start you off at four slots. I mean, with a character creation system like this, you'll want people to play around with it.
Also, I don't think they should have tiered pricing. If they have some premium thing, I won't be able to get it. I most likely won't even buy the game(And I really want to play this) if they do that.
The seperate RP server that you pay more for doesn't really sit right with me. I mean, they should have RP servers and if you want to RP, you go to them. If someone doesn't want to RP, they can stay off those servers. If someone is a part-time RPer, this's where you'd want more than one character.
I'm what some people would call an "Altoholic".
Now, excuse me while I go slap the hell out of my ISP.
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx In DR and GS, having a higher priced account doesn't get you ANYTHING that benefits your character so you level faster, or any special items. (alterations do not count, because non premie can get items altered too)
There are lots of convieniences, like owning a house, or closer hunting areas, or more vault space, but none of that makes your character physically better than another. They're mostly just bragging rights.
Conveniences equate to less time wasted on things like moving from Point A to Point B. To most MMORPG players, time = experience. Bragging rights can also lead to to elitist additudes, especially in MMORPG's.
And you can argue that closer hunting grounds can make a difference, but most people just "move" to the area they need to hunt at until they are done there. There is still a community around, and there isn't anything permanently disabling them. They can also travel back to their "home" city if they want to, and at the MOST it will take a few hours, but mostly a few minutes.
Huh? A few hours? Hours, minutes, it doesn't really matter anyway. Time is time. This is how MMORPG players view it: time = experience experience = power more money = more time (because less is "wasted" travelling) money = power If you pay more, then you'll be more powerful in the longrun.
I however would pay more for a really good rp server. Not much, but enough to discourage those who really don't wanna rp.
I like to RP, but I wouldn't want to pay extra for it. At the same time, though, I can understand this argument. As long as there's no difference to the gameplay, then I don't have a problem.
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx The only reason I EVER wanted to go premie was because of the houses and extra vault space..
And I STILL don't have a house. Isn't that sad?
So what you're saying is that you payed extra for something that you never even got. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Oh, and a house (if it has any function other than just appearance) and extra vault space are advantages. Don't you think that being able to store a larger variety of weapons and items is an advantage?
Okay, let me start off with.. I'm feeling particularly female so if I sound mean, it's hormones not me.
So first we'll cover time. The hunting grounds are not that much more convenient than the regular ones. The only difference is a couple of minutes if you travel over the ferries or gondola. In DR we use scripts, which will automatically get you to your destination, and they're extremely fast. You can travel around the world in a matter of a few minutes if you desired, excluding the islands which can take a lot longer, but again, there isn't a replacement for those hunting areas.
Also, I could brag about anything. I could brag that I spend all my time hunting, so my thief could kick the butt of thieves 10 levels higher than I am. But I don't. I don't really care. I hunt because I love hunting, and the sneakiness I get from being a thief. If someone is going to have an elitist attitude, it's because that is just how they are. Some people just like to be jerks and try to make others feel bad. I try really hard to do just the opposite of that. I try to always help people I see that need help, I try to make people feel good about themselves.
Another thing I guess you don't understand about DR is that we HAVE to have downtime, otherwise we don't learn anything from training. Here's how I hunt when I do. I kill about five to ten gargoyles, leave the hunting area, sit around or train perception or pop my boxes if I have enough, and then I go hunt again when the mindlock goes away. We can't constantly kill things, because the skill just won't learn, and if I kept trying anyway, it would slow the learning of EVERYTHING I was trying to train..
You shouldn't have to pay more to RP.. but we need a good way to discourage those who are just there to ruin it for everyone else.. And the only way I have seen that would effectively accomplish that is to pay more for a rp server. That would also cover the cost of the extra GMs to help enforce the rules there.
And last but not least, I never got a house in DR because you have to be a premium member for a minimum of three months, and seeing as how I quit for the past two years (not by my choice, for other reasons), and now I've been playing for ten days, I can't get a house. Besides that I can't really afford it in the game because I get arrested like five times a day and I'm paying 2 gold fines each time.. Which I need to stop doing.. And a house can't really store anything, it's just for looks or um.. adult stuff..... but you could go to an inn if that's what you really wanted... And you get I think 95 spaces in your vault with a basic account. Premium is only 120 items I think.. (25 more) Most people don't have that much stuff.. And if they do, they just pay the 2 bucks for a mule to use their vault space.. Besides that, most of the stuff in my vault is junk. I have so much crap that I can't throw away because I'm a pack rat, that it's not funny.
Anyway, yes I understand a graphical game will be somewhat different, and that's why I'm more for my idea of being able to pick the specific "bonuses" you want for your account.. If you want a house, pay another 2 a month, or if you want premium hunting areas, pay another dollar.. It would be pick and choose, and it would be affordable to get the bonuses you really want. If you wanted the whole pack, then you could just add them all in.. and if you just wanted a couple, well you could do that.. And I feel everyone would be more satisfied because they could get what they want.
Anyway, yes I understand a graphical game will be somewhat different, and that's why I'm more for my idea of being able to pick the specific "bonuses" you want for your account.. If you want a house, pay another 2 a month, or if you want premium hunting areas, pay another dollar.. It would be pick and choose, and it would be affordable to get the bonuses you really want. If you wanted the whole pack, then you could just add them all in.. and if you just wanted a couple, well you could do that.. And I feel everyone would be more satisfied because they could get what they want.
When I first started reading this, I gotta say, I didn't think it was the best dea. I mean, I think you should get pretty much all of it for one flat rate... But, if you can't do that, this is the next best thing. I mean, I'd be willing to shell out a couple more bucks if I really wanted one specific thing, I guess...
Tiered pricing and hard zone borders are really the only two barriers to entry this game has for me. Most of the features that have been disclosed seem as if they were built specifically to fulfill my desires, but those remaining barriers are very difficult to overcome. I know I can overcome the hard zone borders if they're implemented decently (DAoC did it very well, EQ2 did it horribly), but tiered pricing...I don't know if I can really quantify how much of a turn-off that is to me other than to say it's entirely possible I'll skip this game altogether because of it.
Business is business, so I won't complain if Simtronics finds tiered pricing to be the best option for them; I will most likely, however, quietly find a game that has a more traditional pricing model to play (even if that game has fewer desirable features). If the entire industry switched to tiered pricing, I'd very probably go back to playing MUDs, or perhaps I'd leave online gaming altogether. This is largely due to the perceived "have and have not" environment tiered pricing can create. I suppose it's also a psychological thing, though. I'm pefectly happy to buy an expansion pack once a year, because that's a one-time charge. An increase in monthly expenses hits me every time I pay my bills, however, and that has a cumulative effect on my perception of the game. I'd go so far as to say that I'd be happier paying an extra $20 a year on an expansion pack than I would be paying an extra $15 a year on monthly charges. Go figure.
I suppose a lot will depend on how Simutronics implements this, much like the hard zone borders. Tiered pricing is absolutely the largest obstacle standing between me and a monthly subscription to this game instead of one of its competitors, though. The only power a consumer has is the power to walk away from a transaction, and tiered pricing is potentially all the motivation I'll need to do exactly that.
(Again, I offer this just as feedback, not as a "do it my way or else!" post. I'll certainly understand if the game goes in a direction that's more profitable with a different sort of pricing model for a different class of gamer.)
Still waiting for those of you claiming you want to debate, to respond to the questions I ask in my last few post. Each one of you has skipped past them, every time I have brought them up. I still maintain most of you sound more concerned about yourselves and your feelings, ignoring the potential "greater good" benifits I have suggested.
For me, there is no debate. If their is tiered pricing and it's out of my price range comfort zone the game can go to hell. Regardless of whether it's the best game ever made or not. I'm personally very excited about HJ but with this new speculation I'm a little nervous now. I know we don't have any info (on almost anything about the game including pricing) so my final opinion will be withheld until such a time as the info is available. About the most I'd go for an online game is $20 bucks a month, even then it's pushing it. Personally the "greater good" means little to me. I know if the company makes money that better things usually come of it. On the other hand I don't feel I need to personally finance their endeavors out of my own pocket buy paying rediculous amounts of money for extra features that a somewhat lesser game may include in a normal price scheme. From the posts here I see there are quite a few who have no problem with tiered price schemes and more power to you. I for one am not a supporter of it obviously. Simply put, tiered pricing usually means that the company is going to over charge for the service. As an example, all the cable modem providers are fighting for just this type of plan. Tiered pricing will allow them to charge more for the services than what a flat rate would. My ISP right now, if that tiered pricing plan goes into effect would raise my current service $20 because somehow they feel it will offer more, when it doesn't. I think tiered systems are just greed based actually. On another issue. I think a previous poster pointed out something very important. Most current MMO players are used to a flat rate for their game. So I can play a couple games (like I am now) for $30 a month. I allow myself about $30 - $40 bucks a month for online gaming but it needs to be that only for multiple games. I already gave my max price point for one game a month ($20) I hope the info on pricing comes out before the game does (that's usually the case) and it's clear how they are going to impliment the tiered scheme (if they do). If it's out of me and my friends price range. I'll be very disappointed but I'll just move on to another game. Not like their isn't a flood of fantasy MMO choking the MMO world at the moment.
I think I agree with those who are opposed to tired pricing. And that is that.
Just kidding. New to the online pay every month thing. But I can see why it is needed. Very expensive for staff and servers. Every company has a business plan that includes a budget. So I really can not see why the monthly fee has to be anything but a flat rate for everyone. Everyone start on an even playing field.
I agree that no one likes to go up to a place and see a sign that says only people without long hair can come in. "Long haired freaky people need not apply". It sounds like a way to build racism into the game. But if it works in their other games then maybe it will work here.
And under no circumstances is anyone allowed to respond to my post and berate me for saying that the developers are racists. You know darned well that that isn't what I said. I actually said that they are Nazis.
But I will once again go on the record as saying that everyone should start on an even playing field. Even preorder frills are basically meaningless. You get boots of fancy smancy ever so slightly faster running that within a few levels have become obsolete. But building in content that all who pay more money can solely use is hanging out that country club sign. Think we will be able to work as caddies at least...? LOL
This seems like a strange decision for a company that seems to be trying to do away with a lot of the things in MMOGs that pull people apart.
I would rather pay 20 where everybody pays 20, than 15 for having a special treatment just because I can afford it. Really... I love HJ and the ideas behind it, but I'm shocked to discover that such an unfair payment method will be implemented; in my opinion it doesn't match with what should be a truely immersive and RPG-oriented experience. It's totally going to ruin the atmosphere and all (at least for me). Is there any possibility you will rethink it?
As far as I know (I might be wrong) they may and they may not put in tiered pricing.
If they do not, I would think the price of the game might be a little more expensive than if they didn't, to help cover the costs that the tiered pricing would have paid for. Of course that could be wrong too.
I like tiered pricing, not because it makes people better than others, but because it allows more for the game as a whole. Tiered pricing means more GMs and more GMs means more content, more events, and more customer service.
(Wow my cat is clumsy)
So anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I don't know what the plan is. And don't let that scare you away because for all we know, it can go either way.
I'd prefer to see a flat fee, its what people have come to expect of a modern MMO and it doesn't leave those poor (literally) sod's like me feeling that they're missing out on half of the game becuase we can't justify the extra's.
Like I say I'd prefer an all or nothing approach over a haves and have nots model.
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Another thing to consider here is the history of paying real-life money for extras in MMORPGs. Buying in-game money or items with real-life money is a controversial thing that's against the EULA of most games, but happens on a large scale anyway. Despite that, most people dislike it; players like me loathe the idea of that kind of cheating, which harms the game (through professional gold-farming and duping that harm the game's economy) and gives people things they didn't earn; and even a lot of the people who do pay for that consider it a necessary evil to stay competitive, but would rather that they didn't "have to". Because of this, even though Simu's scheme will almost certainly be nothing like that, I think a tiered pricing plan is likely to inherit a stigma among MMO gamers, that might not exist among their existing MUD players.
I, personally, would be willing to spend more under certain conditions, but the problem wouldn't be the money itself. For me, the distinction comes at the point of whether the higher pricing gives a material advantage over other players. I like the cosmetic frills that commonly come with MMO Collector's Editions (like exclusive clothing) and I'd be happy to spend a little extra for a properly moderated RP server, but I wouldn't want a more expensive subscription to carry more tangible benefits. If I bought them, I'd feel like it was cheating, and if I didn't, I'd feel like I was missing out.
Dasharr Eandall, SWG, Smuggler/Pistoleer (retired after 2.5+ years)
I feel exactly as you feel, Dasharr. I don't want (real) money to be involved in my gaming experience in any way after I bought the game and since I'm paying a monthly fee. I detest the idea that many players are missing what I get from paying that extra bit exactly as I detest the idea that I'm missing something somebody else is enjoying. You (the GMs) seem to interpret it in a too materialistic/capitalistic way, something that won't fit in an MMOG, especially if it pretends to be RP as well. The way you put it makes me think of a supermarket or something like that. Like EliasThorne, I prefer an all or nothing approach. After all the world in the game should be ONE big experience everyone can share. The moment you sell parts of this experience to a group of players (no matter how big or little), that very moment you split the world along with it's atmosphere, and consequently end up making it unpleasant (if not worse) for players like me. Ehr.. not that you should worry about me, but please, think about it very carefully.
Let me add a little (and futile) consideration. I was happy to discover HJ which really looks awesome, it's like the perfect MMORPG I was waiting for. Then I discover the disgraceful part of it in this topic. Well, I was thinking about it and I came up with that japanese word: 不安 The first kanji has to be read FU and it's meaning is close to the english un- (as in unlike). The second one, AN, means peace, or peacefulness. When you put them together you obtain FUAN: it's a pretty flexible word and you can use it in a vast variety of situations. Let's catch some of it's meanings: unease, anxiety, fear, unrest, disturbance. Tiered pricing = 不安
English isn't my mother tongue. I hope you could get through the last two posts.
The only thing I can compare this to is the EverQuest "Legends" server that was available (there was a waiting list) for about $39 (?) a month which had GM events, some other frills, and therefore some "extra content."
This never bothered me.
Nor did I ever feel I was ever getting the shaft just because I choose not to play on this server.
IF Simutronics does a tiered-pricing according to type of server, I'm sure I will give it a perusal and then make my decision.
*Shrug* I just can get all worked up about this topic until I see all the details.
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx Anyway, yes I understand a graphical game will be somewhat different, and that's why I'm more for my idea of being able to pick the specific "bonuses" you want for your account.. If you want a house, pay another 2 a month, or if you want premium hunting areas, pay another dollar.. It would be pick and choose, and it would be affordable to get the bonuses you really want. If you wanted the whole pack, then you could just add them all in.. and if you just wanted a couple, well you could do that.. And I feel everyone would be more satisfied because they could get what they want.
I'm afraid I disagree. Those specific "bonuses" you speak of are strict advantages, especially the premium hunting area. For there to be any reason to pay for a private hunting area, there has to be an advantage.
Not everyone could get what they want with tiered pricing.
Originally posted by untale Really... I love HJ and the ideas behind it, but I'm shocked to discover that such an unfair payment method will be implemented; in my opinion it doesn't match with what should be a truely immersive and RPG-oriented experience. It's totally going to ruin the atmosphere and all (at least for me). Is there any possibility you will rethink it?
Don't worry about it. They've actually said extremely little on the subject. We know nothing of what the pricing will be. This is all mere speculation.
What we do know is that Simu's previous games followed a tiered pricing method. We also know that Melissa stated that she would like to implement tier pricing into HJ. However, Melissa is no longer with Simutronics, so her opinion is meaningless now.
Originally posted by SpiritofGame The only thing I can compare this to is the EverQuest "Legends" server that was available (there was a waiting list) for about $39 (?) a month which had GM events, some other frills, and therefore some "extra content." This never bothered me. Nor did I ever feel I was ever getting the shaft just because I choose not to play on this server. IF Simutronics does a tiered-pricing according to type of server, I'm sure I will give it a perusal and then make my decision. *Shrug* I just can get all worked up about this topic until I see all the details.
I agree here. I barely even noticed the Legends server. In fact, there were times when I doubted my memory that it even existed! Thanks for mentioning it because I wasn't sure if my mind had made it up or not. (I have a habit of doubting my own memories.)
Anyway, the tiered pricing that Simu has used before was not the same as in EQ. They had (and I didn't play their other games so don't quote me on this)...
The standard rate, which could be considered by some to be on the level of a "fr00b" account, The premium rate, which had the bonuses Diviana speaks of, and The platinum rate, which was the equivalent to the Legends server (only 10 or 20 bucks more).
And I figure it's worth restating to everyone that the basis for any of these concerns is that this pricing model was for their text-based games. Hero's Journey will cost far more to maintain, so we're unsure of what their approach will be. See my first post to this topic for the main two points I made.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I'm afraid I disagree. Those specific "bonuses" you speak of are strict advantages, especially the premium hunting area. For there to be any reason to pay for a private hunting area, there has to be an advantage.
Not everyone could get what they want with tiered pricing.
I'm a little tired here, so bear with me. I really don't know how advantageous a private hunting area really would be, because the primary way to level (from what I understood, if I'm wrong correct me..) is by actually doing quests, and not by just hunting.. so all a private area would really do, would be to give an area with less people. Although I think a lot of people would get that if they could pick what they wanted, so it really wouldn't be so private.
Don't worry about it. They've actually said extremely little on the subject. We know nothing of what the pricing will be. This is all mere speculation.
What we do know is that Simu's previous games followed a tiered pricing method. We also know that Melissa stated that she would like to implement tier pricing into HJ. However, Melissa is no longer with Simutronics, so her opinion is meaningless now.
Exactly, this is all speculation. Although don't assume that Melissa's opinion is meaningless, she was with the company for a long long time, and I'm sure that there will still be some sort of influence by her, even if nobody really realizes it.
I agree here. I barely even noticed the Legends server. In fact, there were times when I doubted my memory that it even existed! Thanks for mentioning it because I wasn't sure if my mind had made it up or not. (I have a habit of doubting my own memories.)
Anyway, the tiered pricing that Simu has used before was not the same as in EQ. They had (and I didn't play their other games so don't quote me on this)...
The standard rate, which could be considered by some to be on the level of a "fr00b" account, The premium rate, which had the bonuses Diviana speaks of, and The platinum rate, which was the equivalent to the Legends server (only 10 or 20 bucks more).
And I figure it's worth restating to everyone that the basis for any of these concerns is that this pricing model was for their text-based games. Hero's Journey will cost far more to maintain, so we're unsure of what their approach will be. See my first post to this topic for the main two points I made.
I couldn't call the basic account lesser than the premium one. You don't know what you DO get with a basic account. Try thousands of verbs. (I'm not joking either, you can laugh like a donkey if you want) Or even thousands upon thousands of beautifully described rooms. Or really fun things to do, like the waterslide in Arthe Dale, or the pool on the way to Haven, where you can become a fish. Or maybe it's the hundreds of different enemies within a minutes traveling distance. And the fact that people most of the time, will treat you with respect. There is a huge community in the game, and by having a basic account, you would be no lesser than anyone else, because you get THE FUN part of the game. You get to hunt, and you get to roleplay, and you get to interact with others. You can use scripts, you can go to events, or you could even sit around wishing you had something you didn't.
By having just a basic account, you would be considered no lesser. I never once felt like I was treated differently or that I was looked down upon because I was not a premium member, and believe me, I spent a good two years on a basic account.
I almost feel like everyone is TRYING to seperate those who (if it happened) were premium and those who were basic. I have a feeling MOST OF THE TIME you would never know that someone was a premium member or basic. The only reason you might know, is if you weren't on a roleplaying server, because I'm sure someone would be sitting there bragging. I know there are people who are premies, but I don't know who they are.. They don't look different, and they don't talk different.. The only reason I do know, is because I see them in gargoyles sometimes. (Usually dead)
I have to say I like the tiering system less and less the more I hear about it!
How on Earth did they ever get away with $39!!! When we generally now pay a fixed fee of around £8-£10, its ludicrous!
I guess I'd like to say that I'm looking forward to HJ and have picked it out as my main game to follow but I hope the powers that be realise that I (and I suspect others) have a fun "level" and when a game slips under this for whatever reason then it adds itself to my "in my wake" section and I drop it like a hot rock.
Using a tiered system will be a negative factor whether its real or not I will still feel that simply because I cannot justify paying more then I'm missing out.
Another thing to think about at least in my situation is that one of the major things that drew HJ to my attention was that players of differing levels could play together, this is especially important to me as I play with a regular group of four and being sent away for work etc caused major issues, but so will this - should one of us pay for the premium content then there will be times when we cannot play together and that will impact massively on my fun level
Think long and hard on this one - tiered is not the way to go in this market, do NOT make this mistake I beg of you.
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by Jenuviel Tiered pricing and hard zone borders are really the only two barriers to entry this game has for me. Most of the features that have been disclosed seem as if they were built specifically to fulfill my desires, but those remaining barriers are very difficult to overcome. I know I can overcome the hard zone borders if they're implemented decently (DAoC did it very well, EQ2 did it horribly),
Can you start up another thread and describe what you consider good and bad about hard zone borders, or address this in the questions thread? I'd like to discuss this somewhere other then the pricing thread.
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx ... so all a private area would really do, would be to give an area with less people.
If that were the case, there would be no reason to pay for it. Remember, there will be no concern for overcrowding. Like in CoH, when too many people enter a zone, another copy of the zone is created. So if there is "Forest Zone", then x people enter it, "Forest Zone 2" automatically comes up. Why would anyone want to pay extra for "Forest Zone 3" if it's the same as 1 and 2?
Originally posted by xDivianaDRx I couldn't call the basic account lesser than the premium one. You don't know what you DO get with a basic account. Try thousands of verbs. (I'm not joking either, you can laugh like a donkey if you want) Or even thousands upon thousands of beautifully described rooms. Or really fun things to do, like the waterslide in Arthe Dale, or the pool on the way to Haven, where you can become a fish. Or maybe it's the hundreds of different enemies within a minutes traveling distance. And the fact that people most of the time, will treat you with respect. There is a huge community in the game, and by having a basic account, you would be no lesser than anyone else, because you get THE FUN part of the game. You get to hunt, and you get to roleplay, and you get to interact with others. You can use scripts, you can go to events, or you could even sit around wishing you had something you didn't.
That's why I compared it to a fr00b account. In Anarchy Online, anyone can play for free, but they don't get any of the expansions unless they buy them and pay monthly. They still got all the emotes (verbs) and could travel to all the standard areas (rooms) but not any of the expansion zones. You could fight all the same enemies and participate in the same community and still have all the same fun.
But it was still inferior. The paying customers never shoved in your face because there wasn't any direct way to see if someone was on a fr00b account, unless you checked if their gear was from an expansion, but it was still an inferior account. You got less, period.
The basic account is lesser than the premium one, no matter how you look at it. You do get all those things you listed, but you get those and more with premium.
Remember, if it wasn't any better, people would be paying for nothing. You eventually swapped to premium, and the reason was because it was better. People don't pay extra just to pay extra. They pay extra because there's something to gain from it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Without Simutronics current tiered pricing model, I don't believe they would have even been able to attempt to make HJ. You, however, seem only interested in yourself and what you get.
It is funny to see you make so many grand assumptions about DR and the effects of its pricing, yet you've never played the game. The people who play DR tell you that they don't feel advantaged or disadvantaged when it comes to charactor advancment or balance, but you seem to know better. Go sign up for the 30 free trial, them come tell me how unfair it is.
If you want the more expensive subscription options of a game and consider it the full one so be it. If the price is to much. Thats a issue of price being to much. The fact the company offers lesser versions of the game for cheaper is merely a option they excersice as a company. There game. They can do what they want. I dont dispute the game companies right to offer ANY price scheme or content scheme. My issue would be if the premium was to high a price for the value of the extra content. Economics ill dispute. Not functions of choice. Personally im all for upping a games price IF the game delievers more. You better damn well be sure the game offers that much better a game then its competitors to deserve the higher price. Id say the cap on the market would be around 20 dollars for premium. Considering what Ive seen this game can offer. Lol I guess this means Im straddling better Divians and Shrooms camp of thought. I dont care what shroom says about equal oppurtunity, thats company choice. I am agianst it being to much.
Comments
time = experience
experience = power
more money = more time (because less is "wasted" travelling)
money = power
If you pay more, then you'll be more powerful in the longrun. I like to RP, but I wouldn't want to pay extra for it. At the same time, though, I can understand this argument. As long as there's no difference to the gameplay, then I don't have a problem. So what you're saying is that you payed extra for something that you never even got. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Oh, and a house (if it has any function other than just appearance) and extra vault space are advantages. Don't you think that being able to store a larger variety of weapons and items is an advantage? I think I agree with this.
If paying more affects gameplay in even the slightest way (closer hunting grounds, houses, bragging rights, etc.) then I will not be a happy camper. Depending on how much it affects the game, I might not even play. If there is an elite server, then I won't care because I won't be on it.
So far, I have heard that we will be able to get player houses, and that we will be able to get guild halls, and we will be able to get private guild hunting grounds. They have never said that these will be only for those who have deeper pockets.
Also, it was Melissa who said that having tier pricing was something she'd like to have in HJ, but she is leaving Simutronics soon, and we still haven't heard anyone else's stance on the matter.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
I can cut the tension in here with a knife.
This thread is getting out of hand in every board out there
You get what you pay for.
I can see the headlines now, " Simu fans clash on the street in a bloody riot concerning speculation of pricing for a game called Hero's Journey " 3 Dead, 27 injured
Thanks for taking over, lol. I don't think you'll have much luck getting through though. Five bucks says he critiques the way you argue or claims you didn't read what he wrote thoroughly enough.
That pretty much sums up how I feel too.
I took twenty minutes to type out a huge post... My ISP disconnected me... I hate those sons of bitches...
Anyway, it basicly said "Archaos=Good, jgankum=Bad". I'll put some of the other stuff on here.
They shouldn't make you buy additional character slots to have more than one character. If they want to do that, they should start you off at four slots. I mean, with a character creation system like this, you'll want people to play around with it.
Also, I don't think they should have tiered pricing. If they have some premium thing, I won't be able to get it. I most likely won't even buy the game(And I really want to play this) if they do that.
The seperate RP server that you pay more for doesn't really sit right with me. I mean, they should have RP servers and if you want to RP, you go to them. If someone doesn't want to RP, they can stay off those servers. If someone is a part-time RPer, this's where you'd want more than one character.
I'm what some people would call an "Altoholic".
Now, excuse me while I go slap the hell out of my ISP.
time = experience
experience = power
more money = more time (because less is "wasted" travelling)
money = power
If you pay more, then you'll be more powerful in the longrun. I like to RP, but I wouldn't want to pay extra for it. At the same time, though, I can understand this argument. As long as there's no difference to the gameplay, then I don't have a problem.
So what you're saying is that you payed extra for something that you never even got. That doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Oh, and a house (if it has any function other than just appearance) and extra vault space are advantages. Don't you think that being able to store a larger variety of weapons and items is an advantage?Okay, let me start off with.. I'm feeling particularly female so if I sound mean, it's hormones not me.
So first we'll cover time. The hunting grounds are not that much more convenient than the regular ones. The only difference is a couple of minutes if you travel over the ferries or gondola. In DR we use scripts, which will automatically get you to your destination, and they're extremely fast. You can travel around the world in a matter of a few minutes if you desired, excluding the islands which can take a lot longer, but again, there isn't a replacement for those hunting areas.
Also, I could brag about anything. I could brag that I spend all my time hunting, so my thief could kick the butt of thieves 10 levels higher than I am. But I don't. I don't really care. I hunt because I love hunting, and the sneakiness I get from being a thief. If someone is going to have an elitist attitude, it's because that is just how they are. Some people just like to be jerks and try to make others feel bad. I try really hard to do just the opposite of that. I try to always help people I see that need help, I try to make people feel good about themselves.
Another thing I guess you don't understand about DR is that we HAVE to have downtime, otherwise we don't learn anything from training. Here's how I hunt when I do. I kill about five to ten gargoyles, leave the hunting area, sit around or train perception or pop my boxes if I have enough, and then I go hunt again when the mindlock goes away. We can't constantly kill things, because the skill just won't learn, and if I kept trying anyway, it would slow the learning of EVERYTHING I was trying to train..
You shouldn't have to pay more to RP.. but we need a good way to discourage those who are just there to ruin it for everyone else.. And the only way I have seen that would effectively accomplish that is to pay more for a rp server. That would also cover the cost of the extra GMs to help enforce the rules there.
And last but not least, I never got a house in DR because you have to be a premium member for a minimum of three months, and seeing as how I quit for the past two years (not by my choice, for other reasons), and now I've been playing for ten days, I can't get a house. Besides that I can't really afford it in the game because I get arrested like five times a day and I'm paying 2 gold fines each time.. Which I need to stop doing.. And a house can't really store anything, it's just for looks or um.. adult stuff..... but you could go to an inn if that's what you really wanted... And you get I think 95 spaces in your vault with a basic account. Premium is only 120 items I think.. (25 more) Most people don't have that much stuff.. And if they do, they just pay the 2 bucks for a mule to use their vault space.. Besides that, most of the stuff in my vault is junk. I have so much crap that I can't throw away because I'm a pack rat, that it's not funny.
Anyway, yes I understand a graphical game will be somewhat different, and that's why I'm more for my idea of being able to pick the specific "bonuses" you want for your account.. If you want a house, pay another 2 a month, or if you want premium hunting areas, pay another dollar.. It would be pick and choose, and it would be affordable to get the bonuses you really want. If you wanted the whole pack, then you could just add them all in.. and if you just wanted a couple, well you could do that.. And I feel everyone would be more satisfied because they could get what they want.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
Tiered pricing and hard zone borders are really the only two barriers to entry this game has for me. Most of the features that have been disclosed seem as if they were built specifically to fulfill my desires, but those remaining barriers are very difficult to overcome. I know I can overcome the hard zone borders if they're implemented decently (DAoC did it very well, EQ2 did it horribly), but tiered pricing...I don't know if I can really quantify how much of a turn-off that is to me other than to say it's entirely possible I'll skip this game altogether because of it.
Business is business, so I won't complain if Simtronics finds tiered pricing to be the best option for them; I will most likely, however, quietly find a game that has a more traditional pricing model to play (even if that game has fewer desirable features). If the entire industry switched to tiered pricing, I'd very probably go back to playing MUDs, or perhaps I'd leave online gaming altogether. This is largely due to the perceived "have and have not" environment tiered pricing can create. I suppose it's also a psychological thing, though. I'm pefectly happy to buy an expansion pack once a year, because that's a one-time charge. An increase in monthly expenses hits me every time I pay my bills, however, and that has a cumulative effect on my perception of the game. I'd go so far as to say that I'd be happier paying an extra $20 a year on an expansion pack than I would be paying an extra $15 a year on monthly charges. Go figure.
I suppose a lot will depend on how Simutronics implements this, much like the hard zone borders. Tiered pricing is absolutely the largest obstacle standing between me and a monthly subscription to this game instead of one of its competitors, though. The only power a consumer has is the power to walk away from a transaction, and tiered pricing is potentially all the motivation I'll need to do exactly that.
(Again, I offer this just as feedback, not as a "do it my way or else!" post. I'll certainly understand if the game goes in a direction that's more profitable with a different sort of pricing model for a different class of gamer.)
Still waiting for those of you claiming you want to debate, to respond to the questions I ask in my last few post. Each one of you has skipped past them, every time I have brought them up. I still maintain most of you sound more concerned about yourselves and your feelings, ignoring the potential "greater good" benifits I have suggested.
For me, there is no debate. If their is tiered pricing and it's out of my price range comfort zone the game can go to hell. Regardless of whether it's the best game ever made or not.
I'm personally very excited about HJ but with this new speculation I'm a little nervous now. I know we don't have any info (on almost anything about the game including pricing) so my final opinion will be withheld until such a time as the info is available.
About the most I'd go for an online game is $20 bucks a month, even then it's pushing it.
Personally the "greater good" means little to me. I know if the company makes money that better things usually come of it. On the other hand I don't feel I need to personally finance their endeavors out of my own pocket buy paying rediculous amounts of money for extra features that a somewhat lesser game may include in a normal price scheme.
From the posts here I see there are quite a few who have no problem with tiered price schemes and more power to you. I for one am not a supporter of it obviously. Simply put, tiered pricing usually means that the company is going to over charge for the service. As an example, all the cable modem providers are fighting for just this type of plan. Tiered pricing will allow them to charge more for the services than what a flat rate would. My ISP right now, if that tiered pricing plan goes into effect would raise my current service $20 because somehow they feel it will offer more, when it doesn't. I think tiered systems are just greed based actually.
On another issue. I think a previous poster pointed out something very important. Most current MMO players are used to a flat rate for their game. So I can play a couple games (like I am now) for $30 a month. I allow myself about $30 - $40 bucks a month for online gaming but it needs to be that only for multiple games. I already gave my max price point for one game a month ($20)
I hope the info on pricing comes out before the game does (that's usually the case) and it's clear how they are going to impliment the tiered scheme (if they do).
If it's out of me and my friends price range. I'll be very disappointed but I'll just move on to another game. Not like their isn't a flood of fantasy MMO choking the MMO world at the moment.
edit: spelling....
Man, this is certainly a heated debate.
I think I agree with those who are opposed to tired pricing. And that is that.
Just kidding. New to the online pay every month thing. But I can see why it is needed. Very expensive for staff and servers. Every company has a business plan that includes a budget. So I really can not see why the monthly fee has to be anything but a flat rate for everyone. Everyone start on an even playing field.
I agree that no one likes to go up to a place and see a sign that says only people without long hair can come in. "Long haired freaky people need not apply". It sounds like a way to build racism into the game. But if it works in their other games then maybe it will work here.
And under no circumstances is anyone allowed to respond to my post and berate me for saying that the developers are racists. You know darned well that that isn't what I said. I actually said that they are Nazis.
But I will once again go on the record as saying that everyone should start on an even playing field. Even preorder frills are basically meaningless. You get boots of fancy smancy ever so slightly faster running that within a few levels have become obsolete. But building in content that all who pay more money can solely use is hanging out that country club sign. Think we will be able to work as caddies at least...? LOL
This seems like a strange decision for a company that seems to be trying to do away with a lot of the things in MMOGs that pull people apart.
I would rather pay 20 where everybody pays 20, than 15 for having a special treatment just because I can afford it.
Really... I love HJ and the ideas behind it, but I'm shocked to discover that such an unfair payment method will be implemented; in my opinion it doesn't match with what should be a truely immersive and RPG-oriented experience. It's totally going to ruin the atmosphere and all (at least for me).
Is there any possibility you will rethink it?
p.s.: I'm new here, ciao a tutti
I think this is getting a little out of hand.
As far as I know (I might be wrong) they may and they may not put in tiered pricing.
If they do not, I would think the price of the game might be a little more expensive than if they didn't, to help cover the costs that the tiered pricing would have paid for. Of course that could be wrong too.
I like tiered pricing, not because it makes people better than others, but because it allows more for the game as a whole. Tiered pricing means more GMs and more GMs means more content, more events, and more customer service.
(Wow my cat is clumsy)
So anyway, what I'm trying to say is, I don't know what the plan is. And don't let that scare you away because for all we know, it can go either way.
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
I'd prefer to see a flat fee, its what people have come to expect of a modern MMO and it doesn't leave those poor (literally) sod's like me feeling that they're missing out on half of the game becuase we can't justify the extra's.
Like I say I'd prefer an all or nothing approach over a haves and have nots model.
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Another thing to consider here is the history of paying real-life money for extras in MMORPGs. Buying in-game money or items with real-life money is a controversial thing that's against the EULA of most games, but happens on a large scale anyway. Despite that, most people dislike it; players like me loathe the idea of that kind of cheating, which harms the game (through professional gold-farming and duping that harm the game's economy) and gives people things they didn't earn; and even a lot of the people who do pay for that consider it a necessary evil to stay competitive, but would rather that they didn't "have to". Because of this, even though Simu's scheme will almost certainly be nothing like that, I think a tiered pricing plan is likely to inherit a stigma among MMO gamers, that might not exist among their existing MUD players.
I, personally, would be willing to spend more under certain conditions, but the problem wouldn't be the money itself. For me, the distinction comes at the point of whether the higher pricing gives a material advantage over other players. I like the cosmetic frills that commonly come with MMO Collector's Editions (like exclusive clothing) and I'd be happy to spend a little extra for a properly moderated RP server, but I wouldn't want a more expensive subscription to carry more tangible benefits. If I bought them, I'd feel like it was cheating, and if I didn't, I'd feel like I was missing out.
Dasharr Eandall, SWG, Smuggler/Pistoleer (retired after 2.5+ years)
I feel exactly as you feel, Dasharr.
I don't want (real) money to be involved in my gaming experience in any way after I bought the game and since I'm paying a monthly fee. I detest the idea that many players are missing what I get from paying that extra bit exactly as I detest the idea that I'm missing something somebody else is enjoying. You (the GMs) seem to interpret it in a too materialistic/capitalistic way, something that won't fit in an MMOG, especially if it pretends to be RP as well. The way you put it makes me think of a supermarket or something like that.
Like EliasThorne, I prefer an all or nothing approach. After all the world in the game should be ONE big experience everyone can share. The moment you sell parts of this experience to a group of players (no matter how big or little), that very moment you split the world along with it's atmosphere, and consequently end up making it unpleasant (if not worse) for players like me. Ehr.. not that you should worry about me, but please, think about it very carefully.
Let me add a little (and futile) consideration.
I was happy to discover HJ which really looks awesome, it's like the perfect MMORPG I was waiting for. Then I discover the disgraceful part of it in this topic. Well, I was thinking about it and I came up with that japanese word: 不安
The first kanji has to be read FU and it's meaning is close to the english un- (as in unlike).
The second one, AN, means peace, or peacefulness.
When you put them together you obtain FUAN: it's a pretty flexible word and you can use it in a vast variety of situations. Let's catch some of it's meanings: unease, anxiety, fear, unrest, disturbance.
Tiered pricing = 不安
English isn't my mother tongue. I hope you could get through the last two posts.
The only thing I can compare this to is the EverQuest "Legends" server that was available (there was a waiting list) for about $39 (?) a month which had GM events, some other frills, and therefore some "extra content."
This never bothered me.
Nor did I ever feel I was ever getting the shaft just because I choose not to play on this server.
IF Simutronics does a tiered-pricing according to type of server, I'm sure I will give it a perusal and then make my decision.
*Shrug* I just can get all worked up about this topic until I see all the details.
~ Ancient Membership ~
I'm afraid I disagree. Those specific "bonuses" you speak of are strict advantages, especially the premium hunting area. For there to be any reason to pay for a private hunting area, there has to be an advantage.
Not everyone could get what they want with tiered pricing.
Don't worry about it. They've actually said extremely little on the subject. We know nothing of what the pricing will be. This is all mere speculation.
What we do know is that Simu's previous games followed a tiered pricing method. We also know that Melissa stated that she would like to implement tier pricing into HJ. However, Melissa is no longer with Simutronics, so her opinion is meaningless now.
I agree here. I barely even noticed the Legends server. In fact, there were times when I doubted my memory that it even existed! Thanks for mentioning it because I wasn't sure if my mind had made it up or not. (I have a habit of doubting my own memories.)
Anyway, the tiered pricing that Simu has used before was not the same as in EQ. They had (and I didn't play their other games so don't quote me on this)...
The standard rate, which could be considered by some to be on the level of a "fr00b" account,
The premium rate, which had the bonuses Diviana speaks of, and
The platinum rate, which was the equivalent to the Legends server (only 10 or 20 bucks more).
And I figure it's worth restating to everyone that the basis for any of these concerns is that this pricing model was for their text-based games. Hero's Journey will cost far more to maintain, so we're unsure of what their approach will be. See my first post to this topic for the main two points I made.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Wow that was wierd
HJ-Diviana
Hero's Journey GM
Hero's Journey Official Site
Hero's Hall
I have to say I like the tiering system less and less the more I hear about it!
How on Earth did they ever get away with $39!!! When we generally now pay a fixed fee of around £8-£10, its ludicrous!
I guess I'd like to say that I'm looking forward to HJ and have picked it out as my main game to follow but I hope the powers that be realise that I (and I suspect others) have a fun "level" and when a game slips under this for whatever reason then it adds itself to my "in my wake" section and I drop it like a hot rock.
Using a tiered system will be a negative factor whether its real or not I will still feel that simply because I cannot justify paying more then I'm missing out.
Another thing to think about at least in my situation is that one of the major things that drew HJ to my attention was that players of differing levels could play together, this is especially important to me as I play with a regular group of four and being sent away for work etc caused major issues, but so will this - should one of us pay for the premium content then there will be times when we cannot play together and that will impact massively on my fun level
Think long and hard on this one - tiered is not the way to go in this market, do NOT make this mistake I beg of you.
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Can you start up another thread and describe what you consider good and bad about hard zone borders, or address this in the questions thread? I'd like to discuss this somewhere other then the pricing thread.
GM Illuminatis
World Builder
Hero's Journey
But it was still inferior. The paying customers never shoved in your face because there wasn't any direct way to see if someone was on a fr00b account, unless you checked if their gear was from an expansion, but it was still an inferior account. You got less, period.
The basic account is lesser than the premium one, no matter how you look at it. You do get all those things you listed, but you get those and more with premium.
Remember, if it wasn't any better, people would be paying for nothing. You eventually swapped to premium, and the reason was because it was better. People don't pay extra just to pay extra. They pay extra because there's something to gain from it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
Shroom_Mage
Without Simutronics current tiered pricing model, I don't believe they would have even been able to attempt to make HJ. You, however, seem only interested in yourself and what you get.
It is funny to see you make so many grand assumptions about DR and the effects of its pricing, yet you've never played the game. The people who play DR tell you that they don't feel advantaged or disadvantaged when it comes to charactor advancment or balance, but you seem to know better. Go sign up for the 30 free trial, them come tell me how unfair it is.
Jonny
If you want the more expensive subscription options of a game and consider it the full one so be it. If the price is to much. Thats a issue of price being to much. The fact the company offers lesser versions of the game for cheaper is merely a option they excersice as a company. There game. They can do what they want. I dont dispute the game companies right to offer ANY price scheme or content scheme. My issue would be if the premium was to high a price for the value of the extra content. Economics ill dispute. Not functions of choice. Personally im all for upping a games price IF the game delievers more. You better damn well be sure the game offers that much better a game then its competitors to deserve the higher price. Id say the cap on the market would be around 20 dollars for premium. Considering what Ive seen this game can offer. Lol I guess this means Im straddling better Divians and Shrooms camp of thought. I dont care what shroom says about equal oppurtunity, thats company choice. I am agianst it being to much.