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Has WoW made it harder for difficult concept MMORPGs to have a chance?
sarbonn
Member UncommonPosts: 119
First off, I played WoW a lot, and I enjoyed it. There, that's out in the open. I also admit that WoW is a game that has made an MMORPG very easy for those playing it. It's kind of MMORPG-lite, although a lot of fun and very immersive in its own way.
My concern is that WoW's popularity may make it very difficult for much deeper, harder MMORPGs to be released because companies are going to be seeing the massive number of players playing WoW and think that only that kind of thing can succeed. So, what I predict is a lot of games that try to be a lot like WoW is with different skins and universes. The era of the very complex UO's or EQ's seem to be threatened by this huge elephant in the corner because I wonder how many companies that have the budgets to handle it will push something completely different than what is demolishing the market right now.
The stuff that's coming down the pipeline is pretty much pre-WoW in creation, but you can already see how some of it is being influenced by the WoW-hype as they've revamped their development. I'm more concerned about the generation of games that are going to be coming AFTER the stuff we already know about because that's where the studio heads are going okay games based on potential successes of new games.
I'm already predicting a very, very hard time for dynamic worlds. Static seems to be the way to go because it is somewhat easier to produce and maintain. I see this as evidence of the noticed success of the current games still dominating the market.
Anyway, this isn't a complaint about WoW, so save those arguments for and against WoW for another thread. This is about the future of difficult games post-WoW.
My blog:
http://www.littlesarbonn.com
Comments
do you really think that World of Warcraft has raised the bar so high that no other game will ever achieve anything higher?
or are you saying that future MMO's will copy every aspect from WoW?
if its either of the above, don't be concerned. The MMO genre is extremely young and there are a lot of non-crpg roleplaying systems (white wolf, palladium etc.) that havnt even developed for the MMO world.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
IMO, WoW broke the # of subscribers mold, nothing else.
I don't think we will ever see another MMORPG pull in that many people. I do think that WoW has greatly increased the MMORPG population as a whole though. I think that in and of itself will help to allow for a broader range of MMORPG types being released.
With the addition of so many people that are new to MMORPG's by a game like WoW you are also introducing that many more opinions and idea's into this genre. That can only lead to good things, imo.
To answer your question:
No, I don't think WoW will make it difficult for "new concept" MMORPGs to have a shot at making it live.
I do think that any other MMORPG maker that expects the # of subscribers that WoW has reached is just fooling themselves.
WoW made it easy to find out where MMO's are heading, and why a change in the tracks will be a very good thing.
Its time for MMO's to be emersive. Not a stand back and watch your charactor do everything with 10 hotkey bars all over the screen.
[12:38am] <+steve> don't speak of tampons in a channel like this
At first I also thought what the OP is saying.
I played WoW but soon saw that it was a rather easy-to-master, hold-your-hand MMORPG with very little to do at the high-level game.
But now I am thinking that the great popularity of WoW has simply encouraged developers of more "hardcore" MMORPGs to produce their games since they now know that the "numbers" are out there for them to make their development costs back PLUS a profit.
Pre-WoW, the MMORPG market tended to be filled with "niche" hardcore gamers who were ready to spend their bucks and lots of their time on their interactive, at-home entertainment (MMOs). It was also assumed but not substantiated that the MMORPG market was tapped out, moribund, and was "cannibalizing" the players of one game to support a new game.
Post-WoW, it is now realized that a HUGE untapped audience gamers have been attracted to MMORPGs, and it seems logical to me, that once they have reached the end-game of WoW, at some point, they will burnout on the game and start seeking a replacement.
Enter the new MMORPGs...
Before, developers might have said, "OMG, we will lose our asses, nobody will want to play our game, nobody wants to fund this project, OMG, we're nuts for even trying this."
Today, I think developers and producers of MMORPGs now think, "Somebody WILL play our game because there is a HUGE market out their for our form of entertainment AND we do NOT need the fantastic success that WoW has for our game to be "successful" in our estimation.
I tend to think that, seeing the huge market potential, they will be more inclined to take a chance of success with their game -- knowing full well that it will not attract 5-6 million subscribers.
When they do their revenue projections, they will more likely say, "200,000+ total box sales + subscriptions to recover our development costs and make a continuing post-release profit; 300,000+ we're golden; 500,000+ "seed" money for our next project!"
And they will probably be right.
~ Ancient Membership ~
Any games that try to equal the success of WoW by simply copying what Blizzard has done will go the way of the various clones of Doom, and Command and Conquer. After those two titles first blew up the market was flooded with FPS, and RTS games many of which were entirely forgettable. The ones that survived brought something a little different to the table.
When people will pay others to play a game for them it might be a sign the game isn't all that fun.
I think other mmorpgs have more of a chance since theres going to be a certain amount of people leaving WoW in disgust looking for something much better.
Pretty much what everyone is saying. Short-term, we might see a rash of crappy games hoping to cash in on the now-huge market that WoW has demonstrated really exists. Long-term, however, a bigger market means more options. Once the market is truly mainstream, we'll start to see the niche market develop. It's sort of a circle. MMOGs were niche in the first place with narrow demographics -- WoW has taken it more mainstream -- and finally we'll see the niche games come back. Quality niche games with unique or narrow focus -- crafting games, RP games, a variety of PVP games, different (original) settings, unusual rulesets (e.g., permadeath), etc. As the "new" MMOG players brought in by WoW become more sophisticated over time, we'll start seeing millions of players looking for something that more accurately fits their interests, enough to allow developers to make their pet projects successful, as long as they are made with quality.
That's one bar I hope WoW has set high -- a lot of polish on a finished product, not some half-assed crap full of bugs, spelling errors, torn textures, etc. pushed out the door a year before it's ready.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
What do you mean? From what Funcom has been saying on their boards, AOC is just another raid game. It's got some variants in other parts, but at the core it's going to be as 'innovate' as EQ where you join a raid guild and go on PVE raids to get gear.
What do you mean? From what Funcom has been saying on their boards, AOC is just another raid game. It's got some variants in other parts, but at the core it's going to be as 'innovate' as EQ where you join a raid guild and go on PVE raids to get gear.
Show me a MMORPG that seperates the PVP and PVE skill and equipment trees
Show me one that has a combat system in which you, not the server controlls every blow and its direction of attack
One that factors mass and momentum into every blow, including while on your mount.
One in which the best gear comes not from raids as you insinuate, but from crafters.
One in which guild activities revolve around defending your city against NPC or player hordes depending on where its built
One in which the AI is advanced enough that towns are alive in unscripted NPC activity such as lighting fires for the upcoming night, feeling the need to eat and drink at the local tavern, and possibly get in a brawl before heading home.
I could keep going, but Ive hijacked this thread enough
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
No. High levels of revenue bring greater interest from investors. While many copycat schemes will naturally spring up, there will be more maverick investors who now see the potential of the market who will step in.
Be thankful that many more millions are being brought into the genre. The more in the space, the better.
Yeah, if anything I think WOW made it easier for us to see smaller, more niche-specific games.
WOW has like 3 million US players now; and has had MILLIONS more who have played and then quit. Probably over 6 million total US WOW players.
A big chunk of those are new to the genre. They will devour WOW, and then go looking for other things to try.
You can't add millions of new players to the market pool without it having a positive effect on the ability to make profitable niche games!
People will be able to have 'difficult' or new concepts succeed simply because there are now more people in the total pool. At no time since 1999 has the ratio of numbers of players to numbers of games been this good: the market is remarkably UNDERsaturated right now.
Add to that the fact that there are new toolsets coming out which will allow cheaper, faster, more nimble MMOG development by smaller companies with less risk, and you've got the groundworks for a future of many "boutique" MMOGs, with 3k-50k players, all supporting a smallish team, many sporting new and innovative features to attract customers away from the Big Boys.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
Which FF Character Are You?
They just jump from the big thing to the next big thing, whatever is more popular and whatever their friends are playing.
I just fear more and more MMO Developers will want to try and copy World of Warcraft and change the game to be more attractive to younger audience (SWG-NGE anyone).
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
It completely caters to the instant gratification of the majority of the world right now. It mirrors exactly the common trend in video games over the last decade. Games went from being complex, innovative, and often difficult but rewarding to shallow, repetitive, and instantly gratifying.
WoW is the epitome of shallow gaming.
But on the other hand, you have that equal exchange of those many new MMORPG players who start with WoW and after playing for so long tire of it's simpler progression. Those players then head out and don't look for something like WoW, but rather a game that offers a challenge and a new experience.
As we go along you're going to see a mixture of more mainstream games like WoW and MMO's with more depth (insert example here.) I think a chunk of the WoW audience will move on and will want something different over the following years. Could be wrong, but I can't imagine everyone who played is going to want a WoW: Version 2.0 and not feel burned out.
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Yes to Chuck, no to Leeroy.
Well I just can talk for myself. Before WoW I played alot of games like Diablo1 / Diablo2 / Nox, sure other games aswell :P then I signed up for WoW Closed Beta and got invited, tried it out and loved it, I never ever played before a MMORPG. Now after 2 years Iam really bored with WoW (well actually alot earlier already but at the moment there just isnt a good game out yet, maybe all the MMOs which are out are a bit to old for my taste) and looking for a better, more complex MMORPG. I think there are more ppls like me who never played a MMO before and after playing WoW they r now interested into the MMO market.
Iam really looking now forward to Vanguard, Aion and Warhammer and u cant say that these games r clones of WoW, I need something different and I think other ppls who played WoW want something different / new, too.
Iam looking for something where PvP has a meaning and u have options at endgame in PvE. Not that you are forced to play a style u dont like, like go raid or die which is WoW mentality at the moment and it sux, crafting also sux in WoW its just to simple and u cant make really good things so it doesnt have a meaning which is boring. After playing for so long time I think WoW was really a bit to easy like leveling is so damn fast, Death has no meaning, if u die u just go back to ur corpse which takes u just a few minutes top and thats it ... yea sure first u think its a good thing but there is no real risk in the game .... Just remembers me on Diablo2 if u had a hi lvl char and was doing runs, sure u hated it alot if u died and lost exp but cause of that I dunno it was just more fun cause there was always this risk and u had to pay attention ...
I guess all I wanted to say is, I never played a MMO before WoW but now iam not lookin for a clone of WoW. Nope Iam looking for something more complex and I really hope the other companies wont jump on the bandwagon and just copy from now on WoW that would be a real bad thing.
and last but not least sorry for my crappy English :P
EDIT: and oh the the OP, I dont think it will be harder no it will be easier cause now alot more ppls interested into the MMO market than before. And like I said after WoW you want something more complex IMO, first it was a good thing that all was so damn easy in the game so u learned a bit about playing a MMO and so on but now i want something with real depth.