Will CoE have a cash shop or be P2Win?

Wellspring · May 2016

There is so much information about the game, I haven't had time to read through everything. So please forgive me if this has been asked and answered already.

I've looked through the kickstarter campaign and watched the video, but I haven't seen an answer to my biggest question when it comes to backing a game: Will it have an in-game cash shop or be Pay 2 Win in any way?

I noticed they have the influence store. It wasn't obvious if that is something just for kickstarter and pre-launch or if it will transition into a in-game cash shop post launch as well?

If anyone knows the answer to this question or could point me in the direction to where it has already been answered, that would be awesome! Sorry again if this has already been asked.

UPDATE: 5/11/16
In the latest QA Video by CoE, Jeremy Walsh confirmed that there are no plans to have an in-game cash shop post launch.

The IP store will go away after the 3 month early access, and any unused IP points will be converted to story points.

Deffcon_1 · May 2016

There will be no cash shop and no microtransactions. The game has a closed economic system, so no items can magically appear within the world. Every item, everywhere had to be crafted by someone(PC or NPC) and used resources that were taken from the world. No pay 2 win.

drakeordanska · May 2016

He influence (ip) store will only be there at the start. After that the credits will be transfered wto story points which can only be used for sparks and maybe one or two more non - advantages items

Wellspring · May 2016

Okay awesome. That's what I was hoping / figured. But I hadn't read it anywhere yet, so I wanted to be sure.

Slapshot1188 · May 2016

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

lahnmir · May 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

indeed, the rewards for investing in the game can all be found on Kickstarter, of course this does not support in game currency because the game is not there yet.

Also, it has been explained multiple times how these rewards are not P2W as they are destroyable etc.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

Octagon7711 · May 2016

You will have to buy sparks after permadeath for a new life, now around $30.00 Average lifespan is 14 months but can be shorter based on what happens to you. This seems to be their sub model.

Slapshot1188 · May 2016

Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...

It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.

whilan · May 2016

lahnmir said:

Slapshot1188 said:

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

indeed, the rewards for investing in the game can all be found on Kickstarter, of course this does not support in game currency because the game is not there yet.

Also, it has been explained multiple times how these rewards are not P2W as they are destroyable etc.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

and I half expect most of these kickstarter items will end up in the hands of non kickstarters that happen to catch these people who paid off-guard in the wilderness somewhere with 7 of their guys and beat them and take their stuff.

Titles as far as i'm aware are useless except getting you perma dead faster. mounts can be taken. Gear can be stolen and has plus and minuses, land can be taken. It really depends on how much that 3-month head start does and as we have no measurement to know how fast things like that will go. It very well could take 2 months to even get a small town going with no defenses, it could also allow for a large castle like town. We need more info on how fast things can grow, how plentiful the resources are, and what these advantages give in a tangible way. This very well could be the same as the starter pack you got in EQ1. A candle, some bread/water, a tunic, and a weapon, with a note and a backpack. In which case that would be pay 2 win for someone who doesn't have that. We need more info to base if the things in the kickstarter are pay 2 win or not in a way that could mess up the game in a more permanent way.

whilan · May 2016

Octagon7711 said:

You will have to buy sparks after permadeath for a new life, now around $30.00 Average lifespan is 14 months but can be shorter based on what happens to you. This seems to be their sub model.

They have also stated that if you help in the story, that you get points which help you to buy sparks, so even those can be obtained without paying money if you really work at it.

lahnmir · May 2016

Lets not derail this thread with a fruitless discussion about what is or isn't P2W, no 2 people seem to agree on that subject, especially on these forums there hasn't been any definition concerning that. it always ends up in useless bickering back and forth, lets not go there. I happen to agree with their explanation.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

MikePaladin · May 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

Pathfinder

Pledge $100 or more

3,637 backers Limited (14363 left of 18000)

Crowdforger Pioneer – Patrons at this level get all the Loremaster rewards including a digital downloadable copy of the Pathfinder Online MMO and an invite to become an Early Enrollee in the Beta, a three-month game subscription, a New Player Pack of consumables, and a Pathfinder Alliance Pack. Patrons at this level will be invited to join Early Enrollment in the order that they pledged this level. The first 2,000 will be invited into month number one of Early Enrollment. Once we have reached 2,000 patrons at this level, the next 2,000 will get invites to month two, with the next 2,000 getting invites for month three and so on through the ninth month of Early Enrollment.

[mod edit]

I don't care of pay to win any more .....I and most can't compete with those that spend 10 +hours a day for games so all this competitiveness is a complete non sens .

What I care there should not be content around Cash Shop like in gw2 ....with nerf of farm so that farming is impossible and we buy stuff with $. And weekly update for years with only Cash shop skins ....same after expansion ....

I don't want looting to be made slow and single target like in BDO forcing you to buy loot pet .

And so on .....

But There won't be cash shop after release and all this pre release benefits is to promote and get project funded

Slapshot1188 · May 2016

lahnmir said:

Lets not derail this thread with a fruitless discussion about what is or isn't P2W, no 2 people seem to agree on that subject, especially on these forums there hasn't been any definition concerning that. it always ends up in useless bickering back and forth, lets not go there. I happen to agree with their explanation.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

How do you propose to discuss the question about whether the game is P2W without discussing what P2W is? P2W is using real life money to purchase advantages in game. This is exactly what the Kickstarter is selling.

Slapshot1188 · May 2016

MikePaladin said:

Slapshot1188 said:

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

Pathfinder
Pledge $100 or more

3,637 backers Limited (14363 left of 18000)

Crowdforger Pioneer – Patrons at this level get all the Loremaster rewards including a digital downloadable copy of the Pathfinder Online MMO and an invite to become an Early Enrollee in the Beta, a three-month game subscription, a New Player Pack of consumables, and a Pathfinder Alliance Pack. Patrons at this level will be invited to join Early Enrollment in the order that they pledged this level. The first 2,000 will be invited into month number one of Early Enrollment. Once we have reached 2,000 patrons at this level, the next 2,000 will get invites to month two, with the next 2,000 getting invites for month three and so on through the ninth month of Early Enrollment.

If you knew anything at all about the history of Pathfinder Online and it's Early Enrollment fiasco and how it was lambasted on these forums you would realize how silly it is to try and bring it up to support CoE...

waynejr2 · May 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...

It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.

Jealously.

Slapshot1188 · May 2016

waynejr2 said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...

It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.

Jealously.

Honesty

jozeph · May 2016

You need to buy the game before you play it. You can't win the game without playing it. So yes, it's play to win

What does winning mean in terms of a game like CoE?

Jonnyp2 · May 2016

lahnmir said:

Slapshot1188 said:

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

indeed, the rewards for investing in the game can all be found on Kickstarter, of course this does not support in game currency because the game is not there yet.

Also, it has been explained multiple times how these rewards are not P2W as they are destroyable etc.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

I don't mind equipment rewards, there has to be some incentive to invest in a kickstarter. However I've yet to see one good explanation about how buying land/titles or three month early access is not p2w. Just seems like a bunch of people reaching to defend this game simply because they like the idea of it.

jozeph · May 2016

Jonnyp2 said:

I don't mind equipment rewards, there has to be some incentive to invest in a kickstarter. However I've yet to see one good explanation about how buying land/titles or three month early access is not p2w. Just seems like a bunch of people reaching to defend this game simply because they like the idea of it.

If you consider being the king of one of the kingdoms as winning the game. Then, yes, at launch the game will be pay to win. Someone has to be king at launch though. You could make it first come first serve. Then it would be the people with most free time at launch that win. I guess that is a kind of pay to win to? Soulbound decided to let the people who pay most try being king.

whilan · May 2016

Jonnyp2 said:

lahnmir said:

Slapshot1188 said:

The cash shop is in the Kickstarter where you can buy land, titles, equipment, mounts and even a 3 month head start. All for cash.

indeed, the rewards for investing in the game can all be found on Kickstarter, of course this does not support in game currency because the game is not there yet.

Also, it has been explained multiple times how these rewards are not P2W as they are destroyable etc.

/Cheers,
Lahnmir

I don't mind equipment rewards, there has to be some incentive to invest in a kickstarter. However I've yet to see one good explanation about how buying land/titles or three month early access is not p2w. Just seems like a bunch of people reaching to defend this game simply because they like the idea of it.

If you handle this poorly (like you don't have the proper defense or make too many people angry) you can lose these. In fact you are now the prime target for people who do want to take it from you. So this means extra stress, you have to be extra careful and you have to plan a lot to hold onto what you paid for. By paying more, you basically put a big giant target on your head. With those rewards comes great risk that you'll lose those rewards to people who didn't pay for it.

DixonHill · May 2016

To be precise, there might be an ingame UI, that lets you buy sparks of life for story points. But i guess that will be more likely to to be handled through the Account Website.
But there will be no form of transactions involving RL money except buying sparks of life. So no "traditional" "cash shop" ingame.

Distopia · May 2016

IF you have a problem with advantages, you might as well find a different game (they're already being sold)..

whilan · May 2016

This is how I picture a fight between a "noble" with a title and a peasant without one: (Link)

Titles just give you access to soldiers, and give you the ability to make laws that sort of thing, however if that "noble" gets caught in a single room with a peasant they better have their skills up to par otherwise they are going to meet the same fate as the person in that video. Considering they are of higher titles they have far more to lose than that peasant.

Titles are like playing dark souls on hard and harder difficulties with less lives.

Distopia · May 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...

It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.

Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?

Slapshot1188 · May 2016

Distopia said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...

It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.

Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?

No, actually it wouldn't.

That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.

Distopia · May 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

Distopia said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...

It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.

Yes if you're only interested in applying a label with a stigma the nature of that "advantage" is unimportant, yet if you want to understand how the advantage works, as well as know what kind of impact it might have. That would be an important factor, no?

No, actually it wouldn't.

That would merely being an argument of the degree to which it was P2W, not whether it was or not.

Right, who needs details when we have labels...

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Will CoE have a cash shop or be P2Win?

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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

Pledge $100 or more

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