This is how I picture a fight between a "noble" with a title and a peasant without one: (Link)
Titles just give you access to soldiers, and give you the ability to make laws that sort of thing, however if that "noble" gets caught in a single room with a peasant they better have their skills up to par otherwise they are going to meet the same fate as the person in that video. Considering they are of higher titles they have far more to lose than that peasant.
Titles are like playing dark souls on hard and harder difficulties with less lives.
Lovely video. Pity they don't make action scenes like that any more.
That is exactly what i hope and expect CoE to be. If you want more reward then you take more risk. No theme-park quests, but real player who will kill you if you aren't careful.
There are many different definitions of P2W. Some say its using cash to gain an advantage. I disagree. I think P2W is using cash to gain an advantage that cannot be obtained in game or that cannot be removed. I also think for something to be P2W there has to be a win condition. Nothing in the Kickstarter makes anyone invulnerable. Nothing makes a backer immediately better in PvP than anyone else. It is not P2W. The only reasonable argument would be to say its pay for a head start.
It's much easier to make claims and pair them up with other games for being P2W than it is to dig down into the supporting and linked COE mechanics to show how it isn't P2W.
P2W (to me) is micro-transactions that are available post-launch and stuck to you perma, people are gaining an initial starting advantage yes but at the same time they have to work much more harder... a king / duke / count / baron / mayor cannot just log in and go for an adventure in the woods (I mean I'm sure they COULD), because their character design won't be focused on skill-ing up fighting traits all the time so they'd be at a loss when it comes to overall combat.
These kickstarter rewards that are non-permanent and can be (and will be) lost either via other player's killing you and taking you stuff, being out-maneuvered by those with more gumption or just dying of old-age and forgetting to setup an inheritance (I can imagine people doing this over the years tbh). A count in COE at launch won't be a count in year 2 or 3. They will get out maneuvered by other players with more diligence to work up to those levels. Most games that are P2W give you a immediate game-play advantage (pots that heal for 10% more and last 20% longer / stronger weapons / full-weapon sets that are permanent owned by the player) these rewards are not perm... if they made them perm even I'd be questioning that, and have done so when wording was ambiguous in brief descriptors supplied in IRC which could go either way, but the final output has clarifications indicating otherwise.
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
All the flaming aside, Soulbound will need to come up with a way to make money other than through Sparks. $ 30 per year per player (aka per spark) won't be a very sustainable business model.
Will it become P2W? Not really since any advantage can be lost.
Will it become P2HaveAnAdvantage? Not really either, because anything that can be bought with money, people will be able to buy with SP (which you get for advancing the story).
All the flaming aside, Soulbound will need to come up with a way to make money other than through Sparks. $ 30 per year per player (aka per spark) won't be a very sustainable business model.
Will it become P2W? Not really since any advantage can be lost.
Will it become P2HaveAnAdvantage? Not really either, because anything that can be bought with money, people will be able to buy with SP (which you get for advancing the story).
1 year if you don't die at all )))but you will die I think the life spam of most will be around 3 4 months especially in beginning
1.Unknown player 1death ~ 2 day less 2. 3. 4. Legendary player 4 5 death for perma death
Something like this ....Correct me if I'm wrong guys some of you know it better
There are many different definitions of P2W. Some say its using cash to gain an advantage. I disagree. I think P2W is using cash to gain an advantage that cannot be obtained in game or that cannot be removed. I also think for something to be P2W there has to be a win condition. Nothing in the Kickstarter makes anyone invulnerable. Nothing makes a backer immediately better in PvP than anyone else. It is not P2W. The only reasonable argument would be to say its pay for a head start.
100% agree. The meaning of Pay to Win has become so watered down that the label gets slapped on just about every single game these days. I see nothing in CoE that is anything resembling Pay to Win.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
@MikePaladin for it to be 3-4 months for a unknown character... you'd have to die every 2.5 hours non-stop to die in 3-4 months As soon as you spread it out to once every 5 hours you die... then you're already up to 5-months of gameplay. If you are offline and get CDG'd as a OPC then there's the time from you being CGD'd to logging back in and spirit walking back to your body that extends it again.
Working etc. etc.
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
There is so much information about the game, I haven't had time to read through everything. So please forgive me if this has been asked and answered already.
I've looked through the kickstarter campaign and watched the video, but I haven't seen an answer to my biggest question when it comes to backing a game: Will it have an in-game cash shop or be Pay 2 Win in any way?
I noticed they have the influence store. It wasn't obvious if that is something just for kickstarter and pre-launch or if it will transition into a in-game cash show post launch as well?
If anyone knows the answer to this question or could point me in the direction to where it has already been answered, that would be awesome! Sorry again if this has already been asked.
You can pay up to USD10,000 already to get massive in game advantages, who knows what they will do when/if it actually launches.
There will be no cash shop and no microtransactions. The game has a closed economic system, so no items can magically appear within the world. Every item, everywhere had to be crafted by someone(PC or NPC) and used resources that were taken from the world. No pay 2 win.
ONLY speculation,NOTHING is ever set in stone,not even if the developer themselves say so. Many are still waiting for EQNext to arrive lol. Developers will do whatever it takes to pay the bills and put food on the table,even if that means lying or manipulating or whatever it takes.
I think too often people live under a rock,they need to wake up to the real world of reality.
I really do wish the game well,i think it is a true attempt at putting in some effort and should be a decent game to play,i just cannot accept their whole business setup.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There will be no cash shop and no microtransactions. The game has a closed economic system, so no items can magically appear within the world. Every item, everywhere had to be crafted by someone(PC or NPC) and used resources that were taken from the world. No pay 2 win.
ONLY speculation,NOTHING is ever set in stone,not even if the developer themselves say so. Many are still waiting for EQNext to arrive lol. Developers will do whatever it takes to pay the bills and put food on the table,even if that means lying or manipulating or whatever it takes.
I think too often people live under a rock,they need to wake up to the real world of reality.
I really do wish the game well,i think it is a true attempt at putting in some effort and should be a decent game to play,i just cannot accept their whole business setup.
Bold: Why are we even having this conversation then in the first place? If everything can change and nothing is set in stone. This entire conversation is pointless.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
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Well, actually, the entire conversation is useless because nothing has been set in stone. This will of course in no way stop the anti P2W nazi's from furthering their crusade against anything purchasable when it comes to games, perhaps a box price might be P2W too? else you can't play after all and what an unfair advantage that might be....
On a more serious note, intentionally misinterpreting Kickstarter to further your own agenda because there isn't even a game yet might be a new low, more Cheapshot then Slapshot. So please, stop polluting these threads with your propaganda, you came here with your mind made up about the how and the why, sorry it didn't actually apply to this game and what is being sold (and yes, I just read through ALL tiers on offer and there is NO advantage that can not be taken away ingame or achieved ingame, even titles are not more powerful, they are just different AND obtainable if you want to).
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Lets not derail this thread with a fruitless discussion about what is or isn't P2W, no 2 people seem to agree on that subject, especially on these forums there hasn't been any definition concerning that. it always ends up in useless bickering back and forth, lets not go there. I happen to agree with their explanation.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How do you propose to discuss the question about whether the game is P2W without discussing what P2W is? P2W is using real life money to purchase advantages in game. This is exactly what the Kickstarter is selling.
What Kickstarter is selling is a chance for people to invest in a vision of a game. It allows people to pledge real money to support the ambition of a Developer. It is all voluntary and as in any business, you basically become a shareholder with rights and privileges attached to the class of share you are buying.
My experience is that the bellowing over "play to win" originates at its base level from those players who can spend 18+ hours a day in a game and begrudge a person who plays 3 hours every 3 days from having a chance to compete ---- typically from buying gear or experience boosts or even unique OP items only abvailable from the store. The games that allow this know they can appeal to that "disadvantaged" class of players as being the answer to their issues, as well as anyone else who feels the need to be uber through means other than their own ability. There are numerous cheating web sites that sell programs to do the same for those PvP wannabee leet players.
There is nothing in CoE that suggests this is going to be the case. Your character still exists even when you are offline.
If the right and privilge is earlier access, then anyone can put themself in the same position. It is not exclusive. But people have to be brave enough to commit. At this point it is a high risk investment. It deserves a payoff if our faith and CoE comes to fuition.
So quit whining. If you think the "payoff" is overpowered then maybe you should just get in on the ground floor yourself! On the other side, everyone has heard that "if it sounds too good to be true it probably isnt". Don't begrudge those of us who and the ones actually trying to make this game for you by pledging our "real life money". If you think you are getting nothing for nothing ---- then I guess you are. If you don't like it then do something about it like spending your own real life money or just move along and quit being a troll.
And when I say real life money that means it takes more than your "two cents" to qualify.
Lets not derail this thread with a fruitless discussion about what is or isn't P2W, no 2 people seem to agree on that subject, especially on these forums there hasn't been any definition concerning that. it always ends up in useless bickering back and forth, lets not go there. I happen to agree with their explanation.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
How do you propose to discuss the question about whether the game is P2W without discussing what P2W is? P2W is using real life money to purchase advantages in game. This is exactly what the Kickstarter is selling.
What Kickstarter is selling is a chance for people to invest in a vision of a game. It allows people to pledge real money to support the ambition of a Developer. It is all voluntary and as in any business, you basically become a shareholder with rights and privileges attached to the class of share you are buying.
My experience is that the bellowing over "play to win" originates at its base level from those players who can spend 18+ hours a day in a game and begrudge a person who plays 3 hours every 3 days from having a chance to compete ---- typically from buying gear or experience boosts or even unique OP items only abvailable from the store. The games that allow this know they can appeal to that "disadvantaged" class of players as being the answer to their issues, as well as anyone else who feels the need to be uber through means other than their own ability. There are numerous cheating web sites that sell programs to do the same for those PvP wannabee leet players.
There is nothing in CoE that suggests this is going to be the case. Your character still exists even when you are offline.
If the right and privilge is earlier access, then anyone can put themself in the same position. It is not exclusive. But people have to be brave enough to commit. At this point it is a high risk investment. It deserves a payoff if our faith and CoE comes to fuition.
So quit whining. If you think the "payoff" is overpowered then maybe you should just get in on the ground floor yourself! On the other side, everyone has heard that "if it sounds too good to be true it probably isnt". Don't begrudge those of us who and the ones actually trying to make this game for you by pledging our "real life money". If you think you are getting nothing for nothing ---- then I guess you are. If you don't like it then do something about it like spending your own real life money or just move along and quit being a troll.
And when I say real life money that means it takes more than your "two cents" to qualify.
You do NOT become a shareholder and you have NO rights,you get what they give you and nothing more and you have no say worth mentioning. Yes it is a business and yes they need to do whatever they can to secure the games release potential but still it is not something that i would support financially because there is NOTHING in it for the people who give away that free money. If i was treated like an actual investor,then yes i would likely give some money.Even so it is an impossible proposition because unlike a real investor,where you have maybe 1-3 investors,there is absolutely ZERO chance a developer can cater to thousands of small gamer investors.It would be nothing more than PR "we listen" "Your ideas matter to us" that sort of nonsense.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This game is not pay to win, because there is no win. Argument ended.
Exactly. The people who see the kickstarter perks as pay-to-win advantages are the kind of twats I don't want to play with anyway because they don't even understand what the game is about. It's a virtual world not a MOBA.
Blunt and honest...LOVE it !! and can't disagree with you .
I don't see CoE as traditional PVP mmo either ..... It's more of what real life PvP would be like )))with social status and consequences. And more harsh are the consequence the better ....
Ill explain some Alcoholic punk harasses you in the street you have 2 options .
1. Walk away > Potential out come ( called bad words by a retarded alcoholic ) >Your at home safe with kids and family
2. Punch him > Potential out come KO the poor bastard after that might fall down and smash his head of the ground > Death > And there is a very small chance like very small chance that case would be approved as Self defense > You jailed for reckless homicide 5 to 10 years > GG > Your kids lose a family provider and a father >Your wife have to work 2 time harder to make for a living > And so on....
3. Case of self defense when fight is inevitable and is life threatening to you or your family > You kill the attacker in self defense > Fairly high chance to be approved as self defense case> In hospital healing injuries / or very small % to be Jailed for reckless homicide for 2 years up to 10 > But at least your family members are alive and safe .
By the way these cases were inspired from real life cases . last one from a case in Russia where a father killed 3 robbers in self defense he also was injured badly and lost lot of blood but he was approved of self defense but there are many cases less lucky
There will still be wars and bandits so don't worry there will be lot to kill also considering game design even fighting back wield life will be a challenge.. I think Kingdoms wars would be like Epic EvE wars and extremely expensive
To be honest I'm sick of these PVP MMOs and PVP communities because PVPers search for virtual social dominance and this statement very well fits in behavior of many PVPers I came across
I hope CoE community to be more adult and more into Role Playing leaned towards creating than destroying ....
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Slapshot, I see what you did there but you're not getting away with it that easily.
Exaclty what constitutes a "win" in Chronicles of Elyria? Unless you have an answer to this it's going to be difficult to take any of your assertions that the Kickstarter rewards grant such a thing seriously. And please have more respect for your argument than to hide behind the "everyone knows what..." line of reasoning. The last time I looked, I was part of everyone and I have no idea of this "win" that you're alluding to for this game, so please enlighten me, and the rest of us, by characterizing what it means to win in the Chronicles. It would be much appreciated.
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Slapshot, I see what you did there but you're not getting away with it that easily.
Exaclty what constitutes a "win" in Chronicles of Elyria? Unless you have an answer to this it's going to be difficult to take any of your assertions that the Kickstarter rewards grant such a thing seriously. And please have more respect for your argument than to hide behind the "everyone knows what..." line of reasoning. The last time I looked, I was part of everyone and I have no idea of this "win" that you're alluding to for this game, so please enlighten me, and the rest of us, by characterizing what it means to win in the Chronicles. It would be much appreciated.
J
Not sure why you struggle with this concept but I'll repeat it:
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W.
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it like the guy above who compares it to shareholders. He's making the case that you spend more money so you get more perks. I get it, and it's a logical argument. It's the justification of the P2W model. I can agree or disagree that it's "fair" but at least it's a logical argument. Your whole "HAHAHA it's not P2W because you technically can't WIN!!!" is just silly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Slapshot, I see what you did there but you're not getting away with it that easily.
Exaclty what constitutes a "win" in Chronicles of Elyria? Unless you have an answer to this it's going to be difficult to take any of your assertions that the Kickstarter rewards grant such a thing seriously. And please have more respect for your argument than to hide behind the "everyone knows what..." line of reasoning. The last time I looked, I was part of everyone and I have no idea of this "win" that you're alluding to for this game, so please enlighten me, and the rest of us, by characterizing what it means to win in the Chronicles. It would be much appreciated.
J
Not sure why you struggle with this concept but I'll repeat it:
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W.
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it like the guy above who compares it to shareholders. He's making the case that you spend more money so you get more perks. I get it, and it's a logical argument. It's the justification of the P2W model. I can agree or disagree that it's "fair" but at least it's a logical argument. Your whole "HAHAHA it's not P2W because you technically can't WIN!!!" is just silly.
Allow me to frame your response for those who entered after the movie started. In answer to my query as to exactly what it means to "win" in the Chronicles you posted:
a. Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W
That's pretty much it, the rest of your post was merely conjecture and exposition. But the problem is that I asked you what it meant to "win" specifically in the Chronicles and in response you've used the thing to define itself. That is, you've assumed the thing asked for, the thing which was to be proven, namely that spending cash in the manner under discussion grants an advantage that constitutes a "win".
But my query still remains - exactly what characterizes a "win" in Elyria? This is important because if the end goal is this nebulous "win" whose characteristic you assume everyone knows, then judging whether or not a thing grants an advantage is to make a determination as to whether it brings us closer to this all important "win" you keep asserting. If it doesn't, then clearly it's not an advantage. So it's important to know what constitutes a "win" in the Chonicles to help us to define if giving money to this thing or that thing brings us closer to it and thus grants an advantage.
But we can bring this down to more concrete terms. If the game allowed me to spend five dollars for a fancy cape, for instance, then would that be pay-to-win? Well that depends on whether it granted an advantage, by your definition. But an advantage over whom and to do what? Well that depends on what constitutes a "win" in the Chronicles. If the goal is to become the best dressed fop in the lands then yes, I'd have to say buying that hat through a cash shop confers an advantage and puts one well on the path to winning. But what if best dressed had no meaning whatsoever in that gaming world? Then there is no advantage. Do you see how that works, and why a definition of "win" is necessary?
And one thing more...if you want to engage on this I am more than willing to do it. But give me arguments, not pithy allusions to my mental struggles or continual assertions that a thing is what it is simply because you say so. This is a free forum in that no one is forced to engage any topic and answering you is a courtesy. If you wish to see it extended, then carry yourself as if you wish to be taken seriously.
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W. That's the definition of it...
It has nothing to do with the possibility of losing that advantage.
Slapshot, I see what you did there but you're not getting away with it that easily.
Exaclty what constitutes a "win" in Chronicles of Elyria? Unless you have an answer to this it's going to be difficult to take any of your assertions that the Kickstarter rewards grant such a thing seriously. And please have more respect for your argument than to hide behind the "everyone knows what..." line of reasoning. The last time I looked, I was part of everyone and I have no idea of this "win" that you're alluding to for this game, so please enlighten me, and the rest of us, by characterizing what it means to win in the Chronicles. It would be much appreciated.
J
Not sure why you struggle with this concept but I'll repeat it:
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W.
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it like the guy above who compares it to shareholders. He's making the case that you spend more money so you get more perks. I get it, and it's a logical argument. It's the justification of the P2W model. I can agree or disagree that it's "fair" but at least it's a logical argument. Your whole "HAHAHA it's not P2W because you technically can't WIN!!!" is just silly.
- lot's of irrelevant stuff
Not sure why you struggle with this concept but I'll repeat it:
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W.
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it like the guy above who compares it to shareholders. He's making the case that you spend more money so you get more perks. I get it, and it's a logical argument. It's the justification of the P2W model. I can agree or disagree that it's "fair" but at least it's a logical argument. Your whole "HAHAHA it's not P2W because you technically can't WIN!!!" is just silly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
<snip> But my query still remains - exactly what characterizes a "win" in Elyria? </snip>
Unfortunately you will be waiting a while, when given a set area to actually try give an answer on it's either dodge the answer or not reply at all. I'm still waiting here
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
So what you are saying is that your entire argument about P2W is pointless? I see what you did there.
Comments
That is exactly what i hope and expect CoE to be. If you want more reward then you take more risk. No theme-park quests, but real player who will kill you if you aren't careful.
The simple fact is all kickstarters offer some sort of rewards. Most allow you to keep said rewards. In CoE all can be lost so.....
P2W (to me) is micro-transactions that are available post-launch and stuck to you perma, people are gaining an initial starting advantage yes but at the same time they have to work much more harder... a king / duke / count / baron / mayor cannot just log in and go for an adventure in the woods (I mean I'm sure they COULD), because their character design won't be focused on skill-ing up fighting traits all the time so they'd be at a loss when it comes to overall combat.
These kickstarter rewards that are non-permanent and can be (and will be) lost either via other player's killing you and taking you stuff, being out-maneuvered by those with more gumption or just dying of old-age and forgetting to setup an inheritance (I can imagine people doing this over the years tbh). A count in COE at launch won't be a count in year 2 or 3. They will get out maneuvered by other players with more diligence to work up to those levels. Most games that are P2W give you a immediate game-play advantage (pots that heal for 10% more and last 20% longer / stronger weapons / full-weapon sets that are permanent owned by the player) these rewards are not perm... if they made them perm even I'd be questioning that, and have done so when wording was ambiguous in brief descriptors supplied in IRC which could go either way, but the final output has clarifications indicating otherwise.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Will it become P2W? Not really since any advantage can be lost.
Will it become P2HaveAnAdvantage? Not really either, because anything that can be bought with money, people will be able to buy with SP (which you get for advancing the story).
I think the life spam of most will be around 3 4 months especially in beginning
1.Unknown player 1death ~ 2 day less
2.
3.
4. Legendary player 4 5 death for perma death
Something like this ....Correct me if I'm wrong guys some of you know it better
That may be your "honest" OPINION but that doesn't make it factually a truth. The P2W is loser talk imo.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Working etc. etc.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
Many are still waiting for EQNext to arrive lol.
Developers will do whatever it takes to pay the bills and put food on the table,even if that means lying or manipulating or whatever it takes.
I think too often people live under a rock,they need to wake up to the real world of reality.
I really do wish the game well,i think it is a true attempt at putting in some effort and should be a decent game to play,i just cannot accept their whole business setup.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
On a more serious note, intentionally misinterpreting Kickstarter to further your own agenda because there isn't even a game yet might be a new low, more Cheapshot then Slapshot. So please, stop polluting these threads with your propaganda, you came here with your mind made up about the how and the why, sorry it didn't actually apply to this game and what is being sold (and yes, I just read through ALL tiers on offer and there is NO advantage that can not be taken away ingame or achieved ingame, even titles are not more powerful, they are just different AND obtainable if you want to).
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
What Kickstarter is selling is a chance for people to invest in a vision of a game. It allows people to pledge real money to support the ambition of a Developer. It is all voluntary and as in any business, you basically become a shareholder with rights and privileges attached to the class of share you are buying.
My experience is that the bellowing over "play to win" originates at its base level from those players who can spend 18+ hours a day in a game and begrudge a person who plays 3 hours every 3 days from having a chance to compete ---- typically from buying gear or experience boosts or even unique OP items only abvailable from the store. The games that allow this know they can appeal to that "disadvantaged" class of players as being the answer to their issues, as well as anyone else who feels the need to be uber through means other than their own ability. There are numerous cheating web sites that sell programs to do the same for those PvP wannabee leet players.
There is nothing in CoE that suggests this is going to be the case. Your character still exists even when you are offline.
If the right and privilge is earlier access, then anyone can put themself in the same position. It is not exclusive. But people have to be brave enough to commit. At this point it is a high risk investment. It deserves a payoff if our faith and CoE comes to fuition.
So quit whining. If you think the "payoff" is overpowered then maybe you should just get in on the ground floor yourself! On the other side, everyone has heard that "if it sounds too good to be true it probably isnt". Don't begrudge those of us who and the ones actually trying to make this game for you by pledging our "real life money". If you think you are getting nothing for nothing ---- then I guess you are. If you don't like it then do something about it like spending your own real life money or just move along and quit being a troll.
And when I say real life money that means it takes more than your "two cents" to qualify.
Yes it is a business and yes they need to do whatever they can to secure the games release potential but still it is not something that i would support financially because there is NOTHING in it for the people who give away that free money.
If i was treated like an actual investor,then yes i would likely give some money.Even so it is an impossible proposition because unlike a real investor,where you have maybe 1-3 investors,there is absolutely ZERO chance a developer can cater to thousands of small gamer investors.It would be nothing more than PR "we listen" "Your ideas matter to us" that sort of nonsense.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What I read from his comment that you are pledging your cash and your "investment" gives you certain privileges such as early access.
I don't see CoE as traditional PVP mmo either ..... It's more of what real life PvP would be like )))with social status and consequences. And more harsh are the consequence the better ....
Ill explain some Alcoholic punk harasses you in the street you have 2 options .
1. Walk away > Potential out come ( called bad words by a retarded alcoholic ) >Your at home safe with kids and family
2. Punch him > Potential out come KO the poor bastard after that might fall down and smash his head of the ground > Death > And there is a very small chance like very small chance that case would be approved as Self defense > You jailed for reckless homicide 5 to 10 years > GG > Your kids lose a family provider and a father >Your wife have to work 2 time harder to make for a living > And so on....
3. Case of self defense when fight is inevitable and is life threatening to you or your family > You kill the attacker in self defense > Fairly high chance to be approved as self defense case> In hospital healing injuries / or very small % to be Jailed for reckless homicide for 2 years up to 10 > But at least your family members are alive and safe .
By the way these cases were inspired from real life cases .
last one from a case in Russia where a father killed 3 robbers in self defense he also was injured badly and lost lot of blood but he was approved of self defense but there are many cases less lucky
There will still be wars and bandits so don't worry there will be lot to kill also considering game design even fighting back wield life will be a challenge.. I think Kingdoms wars would be like Epic EvE wars and extremely expensive
To be honest I'm sick of these PVP MMOs and PVP communities because PVPers search for virtual social dominance and this statement very well fits in behavior of many PVPers I came across
I hope CoE community to be more adult and more into Role Playing leaned towards creating than destroying ....
Slapshot, I see what you did there but you're not getting away with it that easily.
Exaclty what constitutes a "win" in Chronicles of Elyria? Unless you have an answer to this it's going to be difficult to take any of your assertions that the Kickstarter rewards grant such a thing seriously. And please have more respect for your argument than to hide behind the "everyone knows what..." line of reasoning. The last time I looked, I was part of everyone and I have no idea of this "win" that you're alluding to for this game, so please enlighten me, and the rest of us, by characterizing what it means to win in the Chronicles. It would be much appreciated.
J
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W.
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it like the guy above who compares it to shareholders. He's making the case that you spend more money so you get more perks. I get it, and it's a logical argument. It's the justification of the P2W model. I can agree or disagree that it's "fair" but at least it's a logical argument. Your whole "HAHAHA it's not P2W because you technically can't WIN!!!" is just silly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
a. Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W
That's pretty much it, the rest of your post was merely conjecture and exposition. But the problem is that I asked you what it meant to "win" specifically in the Chronicles and in response you've used the thing to define itself. That is, you've assumed the thing asked for, the thing which was to be proven, namely that spending cash in the manner under discussion grants an advantage that constitutes a "win".
But my query still remains - exactly what characterizes a "win" in Elyria? This is important because if the end goal is this nebulous "win" whose characteristic you assume everyone knows, then judging whether or not a thing grants an advantage is to make a determination as to whether it brings us closer to this all important "win" you keep asserting. If it doesn't, then clearly it's not an advantage. So it's important to know what constitutes a "win" in the Chonicles to help us to define if giving money to this thing or that thing brings us closer to it and thus grants an advantage.
But we can bring this down to more concrete terms. If the game allowed me to spend five dollars for a fancy cape, for instance, then would that be pay-to-win? Well that depends on whether it granted an advantage, by your definition. But an advantage over whom and to do what? Well that depends on what constitutes a "win" in the Chronicles. If the goal is to become the best dressed fop in the lands then yes, I'd have to say buying that hat through a cash shop confers an advantage and puts one well on the path to winning. But what if best dressed had no meaning whatsoever in that gaming world? Then there is no advantage. Do you see how that works, and why a definition of "win" is necessary?
And one thing more...if you want to engage on this I am more than willing to do it. But give me arguments, not pithy allusions to my mental struggles or continual assertions that a thing is what it is simply because you say so. This is a free forum in that no one is forced to engage any topic and answering you is a courtesy. If you wish to see it extended, then carry yourself as if you wish to be taken seriously.
J
Using cash to gain an advantage is P2W.
Arguing for a definition of winning is as silly as those who try to defend games that are released buggy and with tons of missing features by saying "No MMORPG is ever FINISHED".
CoE Kickstarter is clearly P2W. Own it like the guy above who compares it to shareholders. He's making the case that you spend more money so you get more perks. I get it, and it's a logical argument. It's the justification of the P2W model. I can agree or disagree that it's "fair" but at least it's a logical argument. Your whole "HAHAHA it's not P2W because you technically can't WIN!!!" is just silly.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240