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Paypal Payment Protection to End for Crowd-Funding - MMORPG.com News

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited May 2016 in News & Features Discussion

imagePaypal Payment Protection to End for Crowd-Funding - MMORPG.com News

Paypal has announced that users participating in crowd funding initiatives will no longer qualify for payment protection. Included crowd-funding services falling under the new rules are Indigogo and KickStarter. Paypal indicated that these initiatives embody too many "risks and uncertainties".

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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Comments

  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,455
    Of course they contain too many risks and uncertainties. People are just starting to understand this?
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    That is no suprise. Anyone could see this coming.

    I am actually suprised PayPal has provided this so far.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    The fact that it took them so long meant they probably didn't realize it had so many "Risks and uncertainties" (something any non-white knight should already know long before kickstarter became popular) and only got the hint after being slammed with a ton of chargebacks.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    edited May 2016
    Tiamat64 said:
    The fact that it took them so long meant they probably didn't realize it had so many "Risks and uncertainties" (something any non-white knight should already know long before kickstarter became popular) and only got the hint after being slammed with a ton of chargebacks.
    That they are doing this now probably is a fairly strong indication that the volume of chargebacks from those things is steadily rising, and Paypal are getting out before the proverbial really does hit the fan.
    I wonder if a number of CC's will change their terms regarding such things, it wouldn't surprise me either.

    Anyone currently considering doing chargebacks in the near future, might want to consider doing so while they still can.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 10,014
    flizzer said:
    Of course they contain too many risks and uncertainties. People are just starting to understand this?
    I dont understand it either....Like the saying goes "A fool and his money are easily parted"
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Hey guys I have a game I'm coming out with. Need some Kickstarter help.

    I have some fly throughs and a website coming soon. It has OWPVP FFA. If you don't like PVP you can press a button and make all the PVP players disappear, and never be bothered. The graphics are stylized, but if you press a button it can turn it photorealistic. It's action combat, but if you press a button it becomes tab target. If you don't like having to press a button to change things we have a mobile app that allows you to speak commands and do it for you. We're using all the best 3D engines and you can press a button to swap to your favorite.

    We'll have various packages ranging from Bronze to triple diamond ($50k). Our ETA to launch is sometime in Neverary 2054 (the triple diamond package also acts as a down playment for cryogenic sleep for those worried about the release date).

    Looking forward to building this pipe dream with you all.

    World Of Warcitizen Fall (COMING SOON)
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    JeroKane said:
    That is no suprise. Anyone could see this coming.

    I am actually suprised PayPal has provided this so far.

    I'm surprised that PayPal was the one to pull the trigger first. Now the real question, is this PayPal's way of trying to secure all crowdfunding initiatives. I know that I still use credit card on Kickstarter (through Amazon). Would this move prompt the use of PayPal exclusively? 

    Oh! And it's a smart move, too. TBH, you couldn't convince me that the majority of people don't understand the risks involved, so I think it's the right time to remove protection. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • WarleyWarley Member UncommonPosts: 508

    Phry said:


    Tiamat64 said:

    The fact that it took them so long meant they probably didn't realize it had so many "Risks and uncertainties" (something any non-white knight should already know long before kickstarter became popular) and only got the hint after being slammed with a ton of chargebacks.


    That they are doing this now probably is a fairly strong indication that the volume of chargebacks from those things is steadily rising, and Paypal are getting out before the proverbial really does hit the fan.
    I wonder if a number of CC's will change their terms regarding such things, it wouldn't surprise me either.

    Anyone currently considering doing chargebacks in the near future, might want to consider doing so while they still can.



    Anyone that does a chargeback on a failed Kickstarter is abusing chargebacks. People that DONATED to a project either knew or should know the risks. We don't need big brothers in this. Otherwise, the point of crowdfunding will be ruined, because people need other people to wipe their rears for them.
  • flizzerflizzer Member RarePosts: 2,455
    Disgruntled Star Citizen backers need to pay attention. 
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    This is a good thing. Initiating a chargeback on crowdfunding is misusing the option. In fact, more often then not, when I hear about chargebacks, they are almost always fraudulent in nature.


  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 4,618
    edited May 2016
    Really though paypal just doesn't want to spend time (which costs them money) investigating these chargebacks.

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,476
    Is this because of Star Citizen pay pal, if so why ?
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    I'm amazed it took them so long, people don't seem to understand that crowd funding basically boils down to a donation.  When you give the money you lose all rights to it because it's a donation with no promises, if they rip you off well sad day for you.

    People are getting more stupid year on year, the more tech we get the more stupid we seem to become as a society.  We are in the golden days of conmen with the internet as it is, people are too stupid for thier own good and then look for someone to blame later.  I've seen crowd funding for technology like hoverboards that simply cannot work, yet they make 50-100k+
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,642
    Will only apply to new purchases, there is no way paypal could ever hope to win a lawsuit for existing purchases. You can not make a protection guarantee like they did then when people use that protection suddenly say sorry we changed our mind.
  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768
    Dullahan said:
    This is a good thing. Initiating a chargeback on crowdfunding is misusing the option. In fact, more often then not, when I hear about chargebacks, they are almost always fraudulent in nature.
    I agree i really dont like all the chargebacks, and the people that boast about them... there a way to help consumer from bad things happening. not because you dont like the way a game decided to update
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    st4t1ck said:
    Dullahan said:
    This is a good thing. Initiating a chargeback on crowdfunding is misusing the option. In fact, more often then not, when I hear about chargebacks, they are almost always fraudulent in nature.
    I agree i really dont like all the chargebacks, and the people that boast about them... there a way to help consumer from bad things happening. not because you dont like the way a game decided to update
    In the case of Kickstarter though, how many games seem to just fizzle out, get to a stage in their development and then progress no further? its not like kickstarters don't get abandoned, it happens far too often, same goes for games that never seem to progress beyond early access.
    There can be some very valid reasons for wanting to do a chargeback, and its the banks themselves etc. that decide who abuses that service, not 3rd parties.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    As Phry says I am surprised it has taken so long.

    There have been multiple failed Kickstarter ventures and - almost certainly - these will have produced a level of charge back requests. Kickstarter projects that are nothing more than "early access sales" will probably have some people unhappy with their purchases - who then try and get a refund.
  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768
    Phry said:
    st4t1ck said:
    Dullahan said:
    This is a good thing. Initiating a chargeback on crowdfunding is misusing the option. In fact, more often then not, when I hear about chargebacks, they are almost always fraudulent in nature.
    I agree i really dont like all the chargebacks, and the people that boast about them... there a way to help consumer from bad things happening. not because you dont like the way a game decided to update
    In the case of Kickstarter though, how many games seem to just fizzle out, get to a stage in their development and then progress no further? its not like kickstarters don't get abandoned, it happens far too often, same goes for games that never seem to progress beyond early access.
    There can be some very valid reasons for wanting to do a chargeback, and its the banks themselves etc. that decide who abuses that service, not 3rd parties.
    thats the price of doing business . You know what your getting into when you do a kickstarter. if thats an issue then dont use kickstarter.. im all for being helped out against big business when things go wrong. but thats not what this is
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    I suppose when a project fails people ask charge backs or if they are not happy with the direction the game is going.  Don't think it is right though but on the other hand when a project fails how do you get the money back. They really should have better laws governing Kickstarter projects that fail .
    Garrus Signature
  • YoofaloofYoofaloof Member UncommonPosts: 217
    FlyByKnight said:
    Hey guys I have a game I'm coming out with. Need some Kickstarter help.

    I have some fly throughs and a website coming soon. It has OWPVP FFA. If you don't like PVP you can press a button and make all the PVP players disappear, and never be bothered. The graphics are stylized, but if you press a button it can turn it photorealistic. It's action combat, but if you press a button it becomes tab target. If you don't like having to press a button to change things we have a mobile app that allows you to speak commands and do it for you. We're using all the best 3D engines and you can press a button to swap to your favorite.

    We'll have various packages ranging from Bronze to triple diamond ($50k). Our ETA to launch is sometime in Neverary 2054 (the triple diamond package also acts as a down playment for cryogenic sleep for those worried about the release date).

    Looking forward to building this pipe dream with you all.

    World Of Warcitizen Fall (COMING SOON)
    Interested, but you forgot to include your Kickstarter page link.
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Torval said:
    cheyane said:
    I suppose when a project fails people ask charge backs or if they are not happy with the direction the game is going.  Don't think it is right though but on the other hand when a project fails how do you get the money back. They really should have better laws governing Kickstarter projects that fail .
    That's just it. You don't get your money back. That's the entire premise of crowdfunded projects. People have a project idea that others want to see made. The funders are willing to risk their money that the project will succeed and complete how they envisioned.

    If a project fails, then it fails and you don't get your money back. It's not a "if I like then you can keep my money" sort of deal. I do agree there should be legal guidelines around crowdfunding, but I don't think it's very simple to establish those.
    I agree there should be legal guidelines around crowdfunding. Talk about a risky proposition. I feel certain goals should be stated by the people asking for money. These goals should be clearly written and agreed upon by the person contributing, and if these goals have not been met by the goals time limit then a full refund should be granted.
     
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    No company should take on the risk of Kickstarter.  They are basically a donation without any promises.

    This is EXACTLY why I do not back kickstarters.  Because I would rather spend my money elsewhere.  You people can call me an ASS HOLE all you want.  When these game get released to prime time I will then buy it not before.    
  • ceratop001ceratop001 Member RarePosts: 1,594
    Torval said:
    ceratop001 said:
    Torval said:
    cheyane said:
    I suppose when a project fails people ask charge backs or if they are not happy with the direction the game is going.  Don't think it is right though but on the other hand when a project fails how do you get the money back. They really should have better laws governing Kickstarter projects that fail .
    That's just it. You don't get your money back. That's the entire premise of crowdfunded projects. People have a project idea that others want to see made. The funders are willing to risk their money that the project will succeed and complete how they envisioned.

    If a project fails, then it fails and you don't get your money back. It's not a "if I like then you can keep my money" sort of deal. I do agree there should be legal guidelines around crowdfunding, but I don't think it's very simple to establish those.
    I agree there should be legal guidelines around crowdfunding. Talk about a risky proposition. I feel certain goals should be stated by the people asking for money. These goals should be clearly written and agreed upon by the person contributing, and if these goals have not been met by the goals time limit then a full refund should be granted.
    Yeah, I think that's a tricky thing. I understand and think time commitments are good, but I have yet to back a KS project that actually released on time. I've backed more music projects than I have games and they still can't release on time. I do think there should be some time to completion accountability though.

    I would rather see guidelines around financial accountability for project leaders when it fails. Did they squander the money? How well did they attempt to complete the project? How far did they get? There should be an audit process and based on the results of those they could be accountable for a portion of the backer money that they would have to return. It wouldn't necessarily be a full reimbursement, but at least a reasonable and fair portion based on the findings of the audit, if the project were found to be negligent.
    I see what you're saying and maybe the time limit idea was a bit harsh, but there has to be some accountability I feel. Audit would be great if it was done in a timely manner. It's a complicated issue for many people, because their afraid of getting used or even scammed. You make some great points Torval, and great job...
     
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Asm0deus said:
    Really though paypal just doesn't want to spend time (which costs them money) investigating these chargebacks.

    You are looking at no less then 30 minutes and probably around a few hours per incident when it comes to this kind.  They need to read the tos on the kickstarter and the lengthy response from the backer who is mad over some certain feature.  Yea its a big waste of time compared to any other investigation.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    I think they have to also tighten the rules about goals and how much expanding of the project is allowed because look at Greedmonger for instance .The guy was using the money for other projects and the way it is set up right now people are losing cash to unscrupulous people and this is plain wrong. Fine you lose your money but if there is misfeasance some outside body must hold these kickstarter projects that balloon out responsible.

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