You people just don't get it. Why does he have to be playing a game when he has some time to spare???
Is playing a game the only thing his brain knows what to do with spare time???
Is he so inept that he can't find anything else fun or relaxing to do???
People are becoming so dumb that they can't even get themselves out of a wet paper bag.
I think it was a reasonable assumption that he is talking about game-playing time here. He specifically mentions concern for MMORPGs when there are so many other genres that provide quick, short bursts of fun and challenging entertainment.
While I admit that many MMORPGs are a distant second compared to the pure joy of macramé, but I assumed this article was specific to gaming.
if the lack of long term relevance for mmo(rpg)'s help to get the developers think about what they are doing at the moment (only trash and shit, nothing innovating) maybe they will finally come up with the conclusion that they now REALLY should start thinking about their development befor releasing the next gen AAA trash game...
SO true but being in this as a business means they don't have an infinity to sit around and think of a great game and all ideas are done with tender care.Instead it is more of a quick think of an idea,ok good,let's make a game.What type of game?Oh just use the same template as everyone else,levels,quests add in cheap pvp and think of some PR gimmick to make it sound like we are unique.
But wait,we can't quite afford this,np just ask gamer's for money,tons of naive people will give us free money,that way we make the game for free and we sip 100 year old wine for something to do.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Games nowadays have less love, that's the simple yet all encompassing answer.
Games used to be made with love. WoW was made by EQ vets that loved EQ, then you saw what happened when those people left/got moved/got fired. If you put love into anything it becomes much better, it's the reason why we gravitate towards certain music and hate other music, we can sense when it's made with love and when it's made with money in mind.
Games nowadays, due to the massive success of "F2P" (pay to win) games, have made developers see nothing but dollar signs, there is no love left for most games. There are a rare few, like The Witcher, Path of Exile, Elder Scrolls, and a few others, but those are the only ones that I can think of off the top of my head that are made with love.
This is a problem with humanity as a whole, moreso than just with video games. We are the consumers and people choose to spend thousands on a pay to win game, increasing profits over $60 box games by astronomical amounts. You can't blame the game companies, it's just sad that we have allowed games to devolve like this.
I think we're coming up on a revolution, people are fed up with the trash games with "RNG boxes" and "$30 box purchase but to play efficiently you need to spend $300" games.
Its just your experiences. I have an 13 year old Nephew that has played several MMOs and is currently playing FFXIV as well as a 10 year old niece that is deep into Skyforge. They have friends that play.
The idea that just because there are many playing MOBAs there cannot be many playing MMOs is ridiculous.
Also, just because you cannot spend 40+ hours a week playing, doesnt mean you have to give up on playing MMOs...seriously, you shouldnt have been doing that in the first place.
As I started playing MMORPGs when I was in my forties I've never had more than 2 hrs most nights, I just adapted and focused on the content I could do.
Even now in EVE I can't join the massive fleet operations that span long swaths of time, my PVP and PVE is on mining, home defense, and other shorter term activities.
Its the difference between being a MMORPG "purist" (I play only one MMORPG at a time, and nothing but MMORPGs) vs being a tourist to the genre, which the OP and most others are.
I've played nothing but EVE for almost 2 years now, and it has dominated my game time since 2007.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If your life is so busy maybe you should stop playing games. [mod edit]
Did you even attempt to read the article?
All they are saying is they now understand why people play more then one type of game. Sometimes you have time for an hour or two and an mmo like black desert won't make you progress that much in that short time span so might as well go spend your limited time in another game until you are free to go on your mmo of choice.
Its not so much other multiplayer games that has led me to put Black Desert on hiatus than single player games I have been playing . I'd been playing Witcher 3 before BDO came out and I have found since its release I hardly played it . When I weighed up was I enjoyed most Witcher 3 came out on top .
At present I am not sure if I will return or not . Something that did put me off was the lifespan ships have in the game . I brought a little fishing boat but realized after a few short trips that about 20 percent of the lifespan had gone down with no way of repairing it without using the cash shop ( or no way that I could find ) . I know its only a small thing but it was instrumental in putting me off the game .
I agree with Lewis. For a while I was on my Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, SMITE kick. Then I switched between those and ARPG's like Diablo3, Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. Now I play Lord of the Rings online when I have time. Go at my own pace. Do not have to feel rushed playing it. Then the others when I dont. I still enjoy my mmo experience. I just changed the type of mmo to play.
i play more then 1 game but there all mmorpgs all the people my age group play them to just we all play free to play or any thing that don't cost over 20 dollars we poor so we don't put games in a need to have group but the younger ones in my town all about ps4 and xbox1 so mmos good luck if u going up ageist that you got a fight
I do find it odd, that as gamers we are either complaining about lack of content or too much content now ... However I do understand the gist of the article. For me I started with UO for 6 years then split between DAoC and WoW. Then was all about WarHammer until GW2. I now spend my time between GW2, Grim Dawn, and Pillars of Eternity. I will be 50 this July and as my interests and priorities change with my age so does my gaming habits. That is life, no figuring it out or second guessing. No right or wrong just Be ....
i have over 30 games i go in between i can never just keep one i love them all i started out 1 then tested out this one then tested out this one then before i know it theirs a long list and i play them all till they get shut down that's how i am if there's a new game comeing out to be tested ill temp uninstall a game to test the new one
I played Overwatch open beta all weekend, all the while afk fishing or afk trading/training. No conflict really. I felt like I min/maxed the he'll out of my time.
I think to be very competitive in a game like BDO, you do need to have an incredible number of hours to dedicate. I'm in awe of some of my guild mates who seem to be on 24x7 and are in the top tiers of life skills, wealth, progression. That simply doesn't interest me.
With that said though, I think that BDO has a bit for everyone. I'm pretty darned busy with real life however a game like BDO is perfect because I can log on and feel that I've achieved something. It may not be a huge achievement but progression none the less. I will never be competitive nor do I have the energy or desire to be competitive. Instead, I love puttering around the world working on my various little projects. BDO has done many things right in this regard. Afk fishing, horse leveling, etc. In fact if I have an hour to spare like I do this morning, I'm processing materials with the stuff my workers collected overnight. This is a bit easier for me to to do than log on to ESO and get into a long quest chain with a time constraint.
Anyway, I do think the author has some very good points though.
Maybe its a BDO thing. Most mmorpg's you can do quite a few raids in 2 hours. Now that probably won't be an organized guild raid and depending on the difficulty could just end up frustrating you. But that is what FPS, MOBA's are for some quick entertainment without all the hassle of finding enough guild members to make a group.
I went back and re-read the article, and it is basically the Metamorphosis of a Casual Gamer. Notice that the author makes mention of all the old Guildies now playing MOBAs and Shooters or some shit. None of my old guildies that I still play with have gone off to Casual games. I make time regularly to play MMORPGs that have long achievement curves and do not reward me generally for logging on for twenty minutes.
From this information I can Therefore suppose that the greater population of MMORPG gamers are out there waiting for a new MMORPG to spend time in.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
There's nothing inherently wrong with MMORPGs that would keep people from logging in permitted they provide an enjoyable experience with something that feels worthwhile in the long run. Thats just it though, they no longer do that.
What point is there in logging in every day when there is no enduring sense of worth in your achievements. The journey and the long term goals that once made MMOs so addictive have been cast aside for fast food gaming.
The issue is -you've made no attempt to be constructive in the forum community or at least add any better ideas. you've basically just trolled with weaksauce. "oh if I have only 1 hour to play a day, I shouldn't play games at all?" great response. he's pointing out the pitfalls of todays mmo. granted its not for everyone. and also why today's MOBA's are gaining ground. todays market won't be the same 6 months from now and companys need to react to survive.
I think it's the other way around, people need to learn to efficiently manage what they do with with their time, if I can go to school and work full time and still make time for MMORPG's I'm doing something right and not complain on forums that games need to be watered down and challenge and effort stripped away, so I can go do everything else besides playing games, these were meant in terms of MMORPG's as a hobby not something you jump into play a hour and complete 50% of the game content. It's perhaps that's why MOBA's and other MMO-lite games are coming out in mass it's there for them why not play them?
If people can't make time for games due some over-used excuse which is not a reason at all and more of a "I don't want to make a effort" there are plenty of other genres and games out there that will suit their needs, but don't have people coming to MMORPG's demanding to cater to their 1 hr a week playstyle, it isn't fair to the rest of us, who do manage our time, and want to work and make efforts to progress "the right way".
I honestly think the gaming community has changed, a great deal. Once upon a time, you had a breakdown of two basic types -- MMO players, and Shooters. The MMO players had a greater tendency to play the game for love of gaming; exploration, building a "life" or "lifestyle" within the game (crafting and selling) and being part of a community -- both at the guild level, and at the greater server level. The Shooters, on the other hand, were the more competitive, noisy, and vigorous crowd, and their game satisfaction came from big numbers and lots of (other players') death.
For some reason, MMO devs (dare I say WoW's devs?) decided that MMOs needed to change, to become more achievement/big number based -- like the shooters -- so they could draw in more players, perhaps those players who weren't usually of the MMO persuasion. Now, understand, competition had existed in MMOs prior to this, especially MMOs that had a PvP aspect to them. But once we began chasing achievements (so we could compare them to others'), and we started the gear grind (because of course, no group would want you if your gear wasn't high enough, regardless of how skilled you might be!); once all this began to come into play, MMOs became focused more on the big numbers and epeen stroking, the gear treadmill became all-encompassing, and dailies? Dailies became the norm ... and we became trapped. Communities began to deteriorate, players lost the desire to do anything other than log on and do a couple of dailies so they wouldn't "lose their place" int he progression trap, and the face of MMOs was completely rent asunder (nice wording, huh?).
Now, what no one seems to be realizing is that if you wish to do something, it's best to narrow your focus. To do something well, you streamline your intent, then you do that thing VERY well. In the case of MMOs, they went from being an RPG game with all that entailed, and became a Shooter-style vehicle for big numbers/instant gratification. I've heard, countless times, that BDO resembles EQ a great deal; some people love that, because it hearkens back to a time when we older MMO gamers were part of a community, and we based our server selection and everything around what that community had to offer. However, because people have gotten used to the progression grind -- and in fact an entire generation of players has come up through the ranks knowing no other playstyle -- MMO devs feel they have to make that an integral part of the game in order to keep players happy.
Game selection is, at best now, an ADD-based plethora of offerings all based around the gear grind. When GW2 launched, they explicitly stated they weren't going to offer "end-game" because they wanted the experience of the entire game to be "end-game." That didn't last more than a year. I've seen the same thing begin with BDO -- "You don't have enough group content!" and so there are "thoughts" of adding in open-world dungeon-type instances. BDO devs are completely overlooking -- as is the entire gaming community at large -- what they've done well. While their localization leaves much to be desired, they have a story that can be pursued. They have an incredibly rich and complex crafting system (which could be improved), they have a huge world to be explored, and in Guild Missions they do have "content" guilds can do together. And RP? Dear gods, BDO is an RPers wet dream!
______TL:DR_______
Perhaps there needs to be a split, back to how it was. Because the truth of the matter is that all the people who scream for "more more more!" -- more epeen-stroking content -- they're gonna be gone in a few months. In an MMO, the players who will be left will be the ones who want community, who want the ability to lose themselves in a make-believe world for a little while. That? That BDO does well. But by the time they get done making changes to continue to attract the ADD crowd, that crowd is going to have moved on, buh-bye.
Perhaps it's time we really looked at letting MMORPGs be RPGs again, and let Shooters remain Shooters? I don't know if that would scratch the instant-gratification itch you're speaking of, OP, but it would (possibly) change the focus of what you're looking for. If what you're looking for is something quick, easy, & relatively brainless, you have game selection A, B & C. If what you're looking for, on the other hand, is immersion? Then BDO and other RPGs might scratch that itch.
Must admit, there are times when i just have too many other things to do that i can't spend hours online playing MMO's, thats life however. Seriously though, i have never considered MOBA's as a replacement, i think perhaps the problem is not so much that people often lack time to play, but that instead of just using what time they have, and have fun playing the game, the perception that, if you can't level up or achieve X goal within a certain time frame, then its not worth playing at all, is so prevalent that people prevaricate, waste time doing something they aren't really enjoying, because its a 'time filler'. That i think is the true waste of time, rather than playing the game they do enjoy for a shorter time, regardless of whether or not they will level up etc. Like the saying goes, half a loaf is better than no bread.
I agree. I find the mentality odd. I've never not logged on to an MMO because I felt like I didn't have the time (maybe Darkfall but that is about the most time consuming MMO out there). I accomplish a little bit and log out, no big deal. There was a lot of rushing around in the first guild I was in in BDO...which I didn't understand. Maybe it's the people that feel like they need to be the top 1% in everything and they get overwhelmed. It could be generational as well, no idea.
@FIREFLY2003 not really sure how that was a response to the troll on this thread. Telling people they need to manage their time is not a answer that "those" people care for. They simply will play other games for a quicker "fun" aspect. you can go play your game and they will play their game. telling people to not play at all is F_cking stupid answer that only a troll would know. I'm simply pointing out that game companies will react out of the MMO scene (see mobile gaming revenue) to follow the market and there's nothing you can do except vote with your dollar.
Comments
Is playing a game the only thing his brain knows what to do with spare time???
Is he so inept that he can't find anything else fun or relaxing to do???
People are becoming so dumb that they can't even get themselves out of a wet paper bag.
I think it was a reasonable assumption that he is talking about game-playing time here. He specifically mentions concern for MMORPGs when there are so many other genres that provide quick, short bursts of fun and challenging entertainment.
While I admit that many MMORPGs are a distant second compared to the pure joy of macramé, but I assumed this article was specific to gaming.
SO true but being in this as a business means they don't have an infinity to sit around and think of a great game and all ideas are done with tender care.Instead it is more of a quick think of an idea,ok good,let's make a game.What type of game?Oh just use the same template as everyone else,levels,quests add in cheap pvp and think of some PR gimmick to make it sound like we are unique.
But wait,we can't quite afford this,np just ask gamer's for money,tons of naive people will give us free money,that way we make the game for free and we sip 100 year old wine for something to do.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Games used to be made with love. WoW was made by EQ vets that loved EQ, then you saw what happened when those people left/got moved/got fired. If you put love into anything it becomes much better, it's the reason why we gravitate towards certain music and hate other music, we can sense when it's made with love and when it's made with money in mind.
Games nowadays, due to the massive success of "F2P" (pay to win) games, have made developers see nothing but dollar signs, there is no love left for most games. There are a rare few, like The Witcher, Path of Exile, Elder Scrolls, and a few others, but those are the only ones that I can think of off the top of my head that are made with love.
This is a problem with humanity as a whole, moreso than just with video games. We are the consumers and people choose to spend thousands on a pay to win game, increasing profits over $60 box games by astronomical amounts. You can't blame the game companies, it's just sad that we have allowed games to devolve like this.
I think we're coming up on a revolution, people are fed up with the trash games with "RNG boxes" and "$30 box purchase but to play efficiently you need to spend $300" games.
As I started playing MMORPGs when I was in my forties I've never had more than 2 hrs most nights, I just adapted and focused on the content I could do.
Even now in EVE I can't join the massive fleet operations that span long swaths of time, my PVP and PVE is on mining, home defense, and other shorter term activities.
Its the difference between being a MMORPG "purist" (I play only one MMORPG at a time, and nothing but MMORPGs) vs being a tourist to the genre, which the OP and most others are.
I've played nothing but EVE for almost 2 years now, and it has dominated my game time since 2007.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If only people actually read the article
At present I am not sure if I will return or not . Something that did put me off was the lifespan ships have in the game . I brought a little fishing boat but realized after a few short trips that about 20 percent of the lifespan had gone down with no way of repairing it without using the cash shop ( or no way that I could find ) . I know its only a small thing but it was instrumental in putting me off the game .
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
With that said though, I think that BDO has a bit for everyone. I'm pretty darned busy with real life however a game like BDO is perfect because I can log on and feel that I've achieved something. It may not be a huge achievement but progression none the less. I will never be competitive nor do I have the energy or desire to be competitive. Instead, I love puttering around the world working on my various little projects. BDO has done many things right in this regard. Afk fishing, horse leveling, etc. In fact if I have an hour to spare like I do this morning, I'm processing materials with the stuff my workers collected overnight. This is a bit easier for me to to do than log on to ESO and get into a long quest chain with a time constraint.
Anyway, I do think the author has some very good points though.
From this information I can Therefore suppose that the greater population of MMORPG gamers are out there waiting for a new MMORPG to spend time in.
What point is there in logging in every day when there is no enduring sense of worth in your achievements. The journey and the long term goals that once made MMOs so addictive have been cast aside for fast food gaming.
I think it's the other way around, people need to learn to efficiently manage what they do with with their time, if I can go to school and work full time and still make time for MMORPG's I'm doing something right and not complain on forums that games need to be watered down and challenge and effort stripped away, so I can go do everything else besides playing games, these were meant in terms of MMORPG's as a hobby not something you jump into play a hour and complete 50% of the game content. It's perhaps that's why MOBA's and other MMO-lite games are coming out in mass it's there for them why not play them?
If people can't make time for games due some over-used excuse which is not a reason at all and more of a "I don't want to make a effort" there are plenty of other genres and games out there that will suit their needs, but don't have people coming to MMORPG's demanding to cater to their 1 hr a week playstyle, it isn't fair to the rest of us, who do manage our time, and want to work and make efforts to progress "the right way".
For some reason, MMO devs (dare I say WoW's devs?) decided that MMOs needed to change, to become more achievement/big number based -- like the shooters -- so they could draw in more players, perhaps those players who weren't usually of the MMO persuasion. Now, understand, competition had existed in MMOs prior to this, especially MMOs that had a PvP aspect to them. But once we began chasing achievements (so we could compare them to others'), and we started the gear grind (because of course, no group would want you if your gear wasn't high enough, regardless of how skilled you might be!); once all this began to come into play, MMOs became focused more on the big numbers and epeen stroking, the gear treadmill became all-encompassing, and dailies? Dailies became the norm ... and we became trapped. Communities began to deteriorate, players lost the desire to do anything other than log on and do a couple of dailies so they wouldn't "lose their place" int he progression trap, and the face of MMOs was completely rent asunder (nice wording, huh?).
Now, what no one seems to be realizing is that if you wish to do something, it's best to narrow your focus. To do something well, you streamline your intent, then you do that thing VERY well. In the case of MMOs, they went from being an RPG game with all that entailed, and became a Shooter-style vehicle for big numbers/instant gratification. I've heard, countless times, that BDO resembles EQ a great deal; some people love that, because it hearkens back to a time when we older MMO gamers were part of a community, and we based our server selection and everything around what that community had to offer. However, because people have gotten used to the progression grind -- and in fact an entire generation of players has come up through the ranks knowing no other playstyle -- MMO devs feel they have to make that an integral part of the game in order to keep players happy.
Game selection is, at best now, an ADD-based plethora of offerings all based around the gear grind. When GW2 launched, they explicitly stated they weren't going to offer "end-game" because they wanted the experience of the entire game to be "end-game." That didn't last more than a year. I've seen the same thing begin with BDO -- "You don't have enough group content!" and so there are "thoughts" of adding in open-world dungeon-type instances. BDO devs are completely overlooking -- as is the entire gaming community at large -- what they've done well. While their localization leaves much to be desired, they have a story that can be pursued. They have an incredibly rich and complex crafting system (which could be improved), they have a huge world to be explored, and in Guild Missions they do have "content" guilds can do together. And RP? Dear gods, BDO is an RPers wet dream!
______TL:DR_______
Perhaps there needs to be a split, back to how it was. Because the truth of the matter is that all the people who scream for "more more more!" -- more epeen-stroking content -- they're gonna be gone in a few months. In an MMO, the players who will be left will be the ones who want community, who want the ability to lose themselves in a make-believe world for a little while. That? That BDO does well. But by the time they get done making changes to continue to attract the ADD crowd, that crowd is going to have moved on, buh-bye.
Perhaps it's time we really looked at letting MMORPGs be RPGs again, and let Shooters remain Shooters? I don't know if that would scratch the instant-gratification itch you're speaking of, OP, but it would (possibly) change the focus of what you're looking for. If what you're looking for is something quick, easy, & relatively brainless, you have game selection A, B & C. If what you're looking for, on the other hand, is immersion? Then BDO and other RPGs might scratch that itch.
I agree. I find the mentality odd. I've never not logged on to an MMO because I felt like I didn't have the time (maybe Darkfall but that is about the most time consuming MMO out there). I accomplish a little bit and log out, no big deal. There was a lot of rushing around in the first guild I was in in BDO...which I didn't understand. Maybe it's the people that feel like they need to be the top 1% in everything and they get overwhelmed. It could be generational as well, no idea.
@FIREFLY2003 not really sure how that was a response to the troll on this thread. Telling people they need to manage their time is not a answer that "those" people care for. They simply will play other games for a quicker "fun" aspect. you can go play your game and they will play their game. telling people to not play at all is F_cking stupid answer that only a troll would know. I'm simply pointing out that game companies will react out of the MMO scene (see mobile gaming revenue) to follow the market and there's nothing you can do except vote with your dollar.