...A MMORPG were you can't do a thing without a group is bad design. Just as much as a MMORPG where you don't have to group for anything.
I agree fully, but with the caveat that far too many recent games fall into that second category. But really, whether it's solo or group based, you'll always have the people multiboxing 6 accounts anyway, so point is pretty much moot.
Trolling, being trolled, getting banned, yelling at mods, getting perma banned, making new accounts, and still trolling this site since 2004 =D
...A MMORPG were you can't do a thing without a group is bad design. Just as much as a MMORPG where you don't have to group for anything.
I agree fully, but with the caveat that far too many recent games fall into that second category. But really, whether it's solo or group based, you'll always have the people multiboxing 6 accounts anyway, so point is pretty much moot.
Exactly how many accounts I have in EVE which enables me to stand up my own group for several PVE activities I do regularly.
Also has the added benefit of providing a separate character for each of the voices in my head.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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Pretty much too many carebears in the market crying when they have to work together to accomplish something. It's not hard to find or form a fun group to play with (using forums, voip, in game tools, ect...). You just need to learn to shuffle through trash like anything else to get the good players.
@delete5230 I like to play solo from time to time because I don't want to have to deal with other people and I don't have to wait along time to find a group or the right combo of chars to go play.
While I was reading through this thread I don't believe anyone has touched on a very big reason why people prefer solo play vs Group: PLAYER BEHAVIOR. Here are some but not all reasons: 1. Stupid Guild Drama 2. berating less skilled players instead of assisting them or guiding them 3. pvp players leaving pvp instance play because they aren't winning immediately. (other factors could be in play also) 4. having to deal with drunk or players high on drugs while pvping or in group content which includes tlak of drug use 5. Anti-religious bigotry 6. Religious bigotry 7. Talk of sexual assault on minors or others 8. sexual orientation bigotry 9. racial bigotry 10. threats of violence against other player whether it can be carried out or not 11. harrasment or bullying of other player 12. encouraging player having a rough time to commit suicide 13. Political talk 14. poor losing behavior 15. "know it all player" giving unwanted or unsolicited advice
I cant think of all bad behavior at this moment, but I believe many get the point. Player communities and people running the games need to band together to ostracize bad players. This is not the prime reason for the rise of solo play in MMO's, but I do believe it is a huge factor.
Yes all that stuff can happen and a lot of it in real life as well. I don't run away from perhaps good social situations for fear of the possible bad that can happen in real life so why would I in a game that's meant to be social. People need to grow thicker skins and learn to ignore the small bad behavior and report the Real bad behavior.
I agree with you in principle, however its not about growing a thick skin. People simply don't want to deal with BS and keep their expose to it to a minimum. I was an auto claims adjuster and unfortunately as part of the job I had to deal with cursing, name-calling etc. far too often. The last thing I wanted to hear or see in chat/voice-chat is cursing while I'm playing a game I want to have fun playing.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
...The last thing I wanted to hear or see in chat/voice-chat is cursing while I'm playing a game I want to have fun playing.
That's a problem that was solved ages ago. In every MMO I've ever played, there are guilds that cater to specifically that frame of mind. But you've still got a general chat, and because of that you're going to see things anyway from time to time. That's a choice you make for playing online to begin with, so you're already weighing the bad with the good from the time you power on.
Trolling, being trolled, getting banned, yelling at mods, getting perma banned, making new accounts, and still trolling this site since 2004 =D
I don't think it's bad game design to incentivise group play in a MMORPG.
"Incentivise" doesn't mean "Force". It's bad game design when before being able to achieve anything combat wise, you have to spam a LFG chat for half an hour, and then spend another 15 minutes joining that group.
I never understood how players constantly spam open chat !
Every mmo comes with a social panel to find others.
Simply open the panel use the filters to find what your looking for and ask them.
NO ONE READS OPEN CHAT
In every game, in every case I found full groups in less than 10 minuet's. Even when Vanguard was at an all time low, I could instantly find full groups unless their wasn't any tanks or healers on. In that case no one was going anyplace any way.
I don't think it's bad game design to incentivise group play in a MMORPG.
"Incentivise" doesn't mean "Force". It's bad game design when before being able to achieve anything combat wise, you have to spam a LFG chat for half an hour, and then spend another 15 minutes joining that group.
I never understood how players constantly spam open chat !
Every mmo comes with a social panel to find others.
Simply open the panel use the filters to find what your looking for and ask them.
NO ONE READS OPEN CHAT
In every game, in every case I found full groups in less than 10 minuet's. Even when Vanguard was at an all time low, I could instantly find full groups unless their wasn't any tanks or healers on. In that case no one was going anyplace any way.
Open chat doesn't work, never did never will.
Being the first one to approach someone is difficult for alot of people, so messaging people you dont know, that you found through a social panel, can be hard or awkward, it also can lead to feeling of rejection if they say no. Lets be honest, in alot of the older platforms you didnt know what people on the social list wanted to do, if anything. Alot of people go through the spam route because you get people who want to do the thing you want to approach you.
I don't think it's bad game design to incentivise group play in a MMORPG.
"Incentivise" doesn't mean "Force". It's bad game design when before being able to achieve anything combat wise, you have to spam a LFG chat for half an hour, and then spend another 15 minutes joining that group.
I never understood how players constantly spam open chat !
Every mmo comes with a social panel to find others.
Simply open the panel use the filters to find what your looking for and ask them.
NO ONE READS OPEN CHAT
In every game, in every case I found full groups in less than 10 minuet's. Even when Vanguard was at an all time low, I could instantly find full groups unless their wasn't any tanks or healers on. In that case no one was going anyplace any way.
Open chat doesn't work, never did never will.
Being the first one to approach someone is difficult for alot of people, so messaging people you dont know, that you found through a social panel, can be hard or awkward, it also can lead to feeling of rejection if they say no. Lets be honest, in alot of the older platforms you didnt know what people on the social list wanted to do, if anything. Alot of people go through the spam route because you get people who want to do the thing you want to approach you.
Many problems with using open chat,
- Players try to go that are way to low levels.
- You fill dps classes too fast without a tank or healer.
- You don't even know if their are any tanks or healers on or willing to go.
- It could take hours to fill a group, hoping like minded people are paying attention.
Yes you have to overcome the shy thing. But as long as you look at it as business it's not that hard. The rejection thing is no big deal, they usually say "they don't have the time" or "simply don't answer". Besides the shy thing applies if your spamming chat or asking directly anyway.
Just because your getting a group together doesn't say that you have to be in charge. I totally put groups together on things I knew nothing about. In EVERY CASE their was someone to take over.
Way easer than you would think, yet so many people are actually happy you found them.
@delete5230 To feel that you are the one doing all the job. When you succeed on something, you can look into the mirror and say "it was all me!". In some group contents its easy to see best dps and "wow, look at those top 3 dps" and if you're on last ones... well, I personally get the feeling that Im getting carried but in the same time I think some players has to be at the bottom.
Like in Black Desert if I solo 1v3 pvp battle, I feel total victorius. I know that I did it all and no1 carried me even a single bit. Thats just pvp aspect but its the same for PvE and other stuff too. I wish to see more clearer what I accomplish as me.
MMORPGS that have a lot of solo play have a lot of repetitive crap in them that becomes the fare of the serial soloer. Take for instance SWTOR where the only people still there are people who can do those same character storylines over and over again in context-free zones and worlds for years on end. That is the definition of MMORPG hell to me.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
I prefer to run solo, possibly helping others if I feel like it when I come acrossed them while exploring. I don't care for trinity games nor forced raiding. I prefer a create my character and my ability to explore, kill, and craft is limited by my choices. I don't mind if parts of the world are impossible for me to explore due to my choices. I don't mind if progression is more difficult due to my choices. I mind when I don't have meaningful choices.
I play to have fun. I play to explore and meet random people. I don't play with a specific group of people because I don't find that entertaining. Sometimes I bring my wife or one friend along but mostly I go alone because we don't always want to do the same things. Running the same dungeon 20x with the same 5 people to get a specific item just doesn't appeal to me. I want things to be changing and not be static. I explore a dungeon once or twice and that's it.
For the most part trinity games or dungeon/raid focused games are repetitive in an unfun way imo. Go into the same dungeon, repeat until items attained, go into next dungeon. Weeeee...
Every mmo comes with a social panel to find others.
In every game, in every case I found full groups in less than 10 minuet's. Even when Vanguard was at an all time low, I could instantly find full groups unless their wasn't any tanks or healers on. In that case no one was going anyplace any way.
Precisely the point. Every mmorpg give you the option to play 100% in group if you choose to.
I play GW2. And it's a game with soloer, group players, RvR players, esports players, RPer, plateform runners, dungeon runners, and raiders.
The attractions is - not having to deal with other people.
Because sometimes other people suck, a lot.
You don't have to deal with other's schedules, wants/needs etc..
Solo - it's just you, can play whenever and however you want without anyone else giving you any crap.
Don't have to listen to guild leader whining in teamspeak/discord "oh Guild X and Y are our friends now - so stop killing them" - solo you're your own boss.
It's nice to be the king.
Having said all this - I play with my guild in almost all games (except the ones my guild doesn't play) - but since my guildies are my RL friends, other than group scheduling, we all do what we want so the same freedom is there as if I were soloing.
Not sure if I've made a reply in this....another thread about solo gaming in an MMO...
But I couldn't have said it better. Will only add that people should stop worrying about what others do with their time and money. Doesn't matter what you do in ANY MMO....period.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I understand the solo mentality, Kano pretty much nailed it best. But on the flip side of that are the guys that ONLY solo and don't interact with a guild or even regular group all the time. There's a percentage of those... and I don't know numbers, so won't even make up any so long as we all agree they exist... but that percentage will grind their way up, knowing they'll never be able to get top gear, or even some of the higher tier quality of life items, so they'll finally go LFG, get in a group, not know how to interact at all in a group setting... and 10 wipes down the line ragequit 'cause they got kicked from the group lol. In other words, if you wanna solo, like ALL the time, be prepared for disappointment unless you're fine at the wall you hit where you can't progress any further. Getting your temporary team killed over and over won't do you any favors later when you go LFG again and everyone just sticks you on ignore.
I'm not going to say don't solo, if that's your preference, great, have at it. Just understand some things ARE out of your reach no matter how much you grind or how good you might be. Also understand that if you do get in a group at some point, your number one tool will be to listen. Your number 2 tool will be to ask how the fight goes before it starts XD
Trolling, being trolled, getting banned, yelling at mods, getting perma banned, making new accounts, and still trolling this site since 2004 =D
I don't think it's bad game design to incentivise group play in a MMORPG.
"Incentivise" doesn't mean "Force". It's bad game design when before being able to achieve anything combat wise, you have to spam a LFG chat for half an hour, and then spend another 15 minutes joining that group.
I never understood how players constantly spam open chat !
Every mmo comes with a social panel to find others.
Simply open the panel use the filters to find what your looking for and ask them.
NO ONE READS OPEN CHAT
In every game, in every case I found full groups in less than 10 minuet's. Even when Vanguard was at an all time low, I could instantly find full groups unless their wasn't any tanks or healers on. In that case no one was going anyplace any way.
Open chat doesn't work, never did never will.
It looks like you've solved your own OP rant right there. Just find your groups in less than 10 minutes and play the way you want. See there are games made for you. In fact, by your claim, every freaking mmo is made to cater to you. If you can find content progression in under 10 minutes then the game is made and catering to you.
Now doesn't it feel good to solve your own problems and not rely on a group to carry the answer for you? :chuffed:
What !.....I asked in the original post, what's the attraction. What does "how to find a group fast" have to do with "asking others what's the attraction" ?
Vermillion_Raventhal, are you saying that WoW no longer has PvP servers?
I was stating that open world PVP is gone because of flying mounts and everyone teleporting in queues. Yet those same players still use mounts and queues. Not all players understand the cause and effect of what they do. Sure metrics say players like flying mounts and queues but same player will complain about the effects on community and OWPVP.
I don't think it's bad game design to incentivise group play in a MMORPG.
It is for those who do not like grouping.
And that's fine although I think we established there is a differing opinion when I posted that.
It is as much a differing preference than a differing opinion. There is no universally "good" game design. There are only designs who cater to different audiences.
lets take a sample. If you take BDO. Currently, every person you add to your party, everyone gets 50% less exp. Drops are also shared between the group.
Lets flip this. If everyone got 50% more exp for each person in the group, and the drops were given individually (like with world bosses) with x2 increase on rare drop items per person in group, how much more people do you think would start grouping? Do you think this would be forced grouping? (Remember, as the game is now you can pretty much solo anything except world bosses)
Because singleplayer games come to an end. Developers finish it, and never add new content. A good example is Bethesda, they release a few very crappy expansions, most which don't do anything that big and are really crappy (bethesda is super lazy) and never update it again. MMOs come to an end as well (mostly if they are crappy or had bad launches), but even UO is ancient and still running
An MMO (like WoW) continues forever. So I spend 15 dollars, and have more content than I will ever have in a singleplayer game.
I can't play a singleplayer RPG that is based on Warcraft, as big as WoW that will forever update as long as it "lives"
I can't play a singleplayer RPG that is based on star wars like SWTOR, and forever updated
I can't play a singleplayer RPG that is based on lord of the rings, like LOTRO, and forever updated
I can't play any game like GW2
I can't play any game like Saga of Ryzom (which I solo in just fine)
Singleplayer games do NOT have a dynamic economy like one based on players is. They can try to replicate it being dynamic, but it isn't nearly like when its player run
Most singleplayer games have tiny lame worlds. Even WoW has a bigger game world (including expansions) than any singleplayer game
MMOs always update (I know I said that before), for only 15 a month...I get more content than any other singleplayer game will ever have in an expansion. 15 dollars is super cheap compared to always paying 50-60 dollars on a new singleplayer game. Granted have to buy WoW expansions, still vastly cheaper in the long run than running out of content in singleplayer games and needing to buy a new one
I can't chat to people in singleplayer games
I can't RP with people in singleplayer games
Singleplayer games are ALWAYS very stagnant. Even Skyrim and Witcher 3 is incredibly stagnant. The world will never change in those
I can't participate or create player run events in singleplayer games
Multiplayer games are really stagnant or force resets, and even the survival games like RUST/ARK or whatever, the server can reset and you lose everything. MMOs you can play one character for decades and decades (or as long as its up and running).
Singleplayer games are vastly more expensive than MMOs
On top of that, even WoW and other MMO expansions are immensely bigger than any singleplayer "expansion". Witcher 3 blood and wine is TINY compared to expansions released by most MMOs.
Developers very often abandon singleplayer games, calling them "finished" (like Witcher 3 for example). Witcher 3 will forever remain unchanged, not updated and there will never be new content for Witcher 3. I spent 60 dollars and I feel it was a HUGE waste of money, compared to pre-ordering Legions for WoW and getting thousands and thousands of hours of content. WoW I have over 5k hours played easily, and its vastly cheaper than buying any singleplayer game
With one exception, there are no MMO strategy games (that are any good anyway). I wouldn't even want an MMO strategy game. I like my total war, europa universalis and CK2 singleplayer (which paradox DOES always update and release DLCs, the single only GOOD game company for singleplayer games)
There are probably vastly more reasons why MMOs are superior (except for strategies are by far better singleplayer for me)...but I can't think of any more and don't need a novel of a list :P
rofl. You just described every game in the world. Nice job. Devs stopped bothering with innovation ten years ago. They want a quick buck and to move on, nothing more.
I like having the option to interact with people when I choose to, I stay out of guilds, and have a couple of friends I chat with and that's about all.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
sadly compared to the days of old (EQ/EQ2/UO ect where the community was helpful. Now days it is all about ego and being better then the others, this mentality has killed the gaming community that i loved. The ones who would help you with just about anything. now days you ask a question you are more then likely going to be insulted. So the reason i play solo mmos is because i do not have to interact with rude egotistical morons. It is a sad state really but we have no choice. The gaming community will continue to descend in to hell untill eventually it is as toxic as a dump site.
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Comments
Also has the added benefit of providing a separate character for each of the voices in my head.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree with you in principle, however its not about growing a thick skin. People simply don't want to deal with BS and keep their expose to it to a minimum.
I was an auto claims adjuster and unfortunately as part of the job I had to deal with cursing, name-calling etc. far too often. The last thing I wanted to hear or see in chat/voice-chat is cursing while I'm playing a game I want to have fun playing.
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I never understood how players constantly spam open chat !
Every mmo comes with a social panel to find others.
Simply open the panel use the filters to find what your looking for and ask them.
NO ONE READS OPEN CHAT
In every game, in every case I found full groups in less than 10 minuet's. Even when Vanguard was at an all time low, I could instantly find full groups unless their wasn't any tanks or healers on. In that case no one was going anyplace any way.
Open chat doesn't work, never did never will.
Many problems with using open chat,
- Players try to go that are way to low levels.
- You fill dps classes too fast without a tank or healer.
- You don't even know if their are any tanks or healers on or willing to go.
- It could take hours to fill a group, hoping like minded people are paying attention.
Yes you have to overcome the shy thing. But as long as you look at it as business it's not that hard. The rejection thing is no big deal, they usually say "they don't have the time" or "simply don't answer". Besides the shy thing applies if your spamming chat or asking directly anyway.
Just because your getting a group together doesn't say that you have to be in charge. I totally put groups together on things I knew nothing about. In EVERY CASE their was someone to take over.
Way easer than you would think, yet so many people are actually happy you found them.
Like in Black Desert if I solo 1v3 pvp battle, I feel total victorius. I know that I did it all and no1 carried me even a single bit. Thats just pvp aspect but its the same for PvE and other stuff too. I wish to see more clearer what I accomplish as me.
I play to have fun. I play to explore and meet random people. I don't play with a specific group of people because I don't find that entertaining. Sometimes I bring my wife or one friend along but mostly I go alone because we don't always want to do the same things. Running the same dungeon 20x with the same 5 people to get a specific item just doesn't appeal to me. I want things to be changing and not be static. I explore a dungeon once or twice and that's it.
For the most part trinity games or dungeon/raid focused games are repetitive in an unfun way imo. Go into the same dungeon, repeat until items attained, go into next dungeon. Weeeee...
I play GW2. And it's a game with soloer, group players, RvR players, esports players, RPer, plateform runners, dungeon runners, and raiders.
You can play any style you want.
But I couldn't have said it better. Will only add that people should stop worrying about what others do with their time and money. Doesn't matter what you do in ANY MMO....period.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I'm not going to say don't solo, if that's your preference, great, have at it. Just understand some things ARE out of your reach no matter how much you grind or how good you might be. Also understand that if you do get in a group at some point, your number one tool will be to listen. Your number 2 tool will be to ask how the fight goes before it starts XD
What !.....I asked in the original post, what's the attraction. What does "how to find a group fast" have to do with "asking others what's the attraction" ?
And the devs choose who they want to cater to.
BDO is not an mmo, its an online game !
I'm sticking to that clam
I had to edit: With a cash shop
I like having the option to interact with people when I choose to, I stay out of guilds, and have a couple of friends I chat with and that's about all.
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