Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
A good guild can definitely add something to the game, although I'm also fine playing by myself. Heck, I tend to have several unguilded characters on MMOs that allow for it to happen, just so I can be by myself at times, with no distractions whatsoever. No guild chat constantly flooding my chat windows. xD
While I prefer to have a strong guild, and play for success of the team, and dedicate a degree of my free time to make guild stuff happen, it's also crucial that it's possible to log in and play the game privately. After a long and sometimes shitty day of work or studying, or even personal stuff, I know it's not always the best idea or the best vibes to spend the evening with your guild - I'd be surprised if lots of PvP raid leaders disagree. Though I also know those, who seem to be able to pull off years of semi-hardcore duty. More than that, without burning out, I don't know. I admit that I'm no longer a guild leader type. Occasionally, you just gotta be able to let someone else take on. While I understand that loneliness can be an issue for many, in MMOs, it can also be a refreshing asset.
I would not join any guild that Demanded I use team speak or similar
Tbh, I'd never join a guild that doesn't require TS presence for its core activities. I recall how it used to be intimidating to be active in TS, when you're not a native English speaker, and shun away from ethno-national communities. But working your way over that threshold was rewarding in a lot of ways, in my view.
Waiting for other players to come by and help clear a spot in HoT had it's lonely moments, especially when playing at an odd hour. Rare but it happens.
Most MMO's only have this problem with dead servers. SWOTR was so big you could go awhile without seeing another player on some planets.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Join Grievance, problem solved. they are very nice people and they talk all the time (it's required to be on Team Speak when in game). Additionally they are a multi game guild and have forums so they communicate outside of the game.
Eh, tried, whomever is in charge of applications is rude or something.
I agree with the OP, MMOs can get "lonely" without friends. Guilds/Teams that are made up of friends do make the game more enjoyable. Some of my fondest memories are of the friends made while playing Diablo II and Starcraft on BattleNet. Several of those are still friends today. Today's MMOs (although more sophisticated) just don't have that friend making atmosphere anymore.
I like TeamSpeak but agree that it shouldn't be mandatory, today's in-game chat systems are a lot better than the early MMOs and are useful for spotting potential friends for a guild/team.
I would not join any guild that Demanded I use team speak or similar
same here with exception of guild based warfare titles because of spies
Actually TS is one of the best ways to talk to people, in game. Are you going to type, "Excuse me, my baby just vomited on the floor I need to clean it.' On TS you can ay it faster and be done.
Being alone is not being lonely. It's very easy to be lonely surrounded by a crowd.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
MMORPG's used to be designed from the perspective of "You'll have to team up to do your full potential".
At 2010 ish they started to become more "You may team up if you wish".
At this current date all but very marginalized games are "You shouldn't team up it only hurts your efficiency".
If 1+1 is not greater than 2, there is no driver for interaction and this is purely a game design decision. If in the game's core is the ideology that content can be soloed, it will be soloed. If the dev team has made the choice that everyone can heal, no one needs a healer. If balance is handled so that everyone is on equal level with everyone else there is no emergent need for anyone else. If you can teleport, no one needs those who can expedite travel. If you can instantly join a PUG, no one needs to talk. If you can easily repeat all content and the reward is at same location to everyone no one needs to help anyone and everyone helps themselves. If you can trade by talking to NPC you're never really trading.
If you can easily and without penalty troll, do bad job, leave, be replaced no one never needs to act properly, be polite, stay in good terms with the community or help anyone else.
And this is what MMORPG's have become, and that's why you're lonely when your primary out of game community (where these rules exist for different reason) stops playing.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
Part of the design for mmos is to give people the ability to log in and get right to some kind of content. So pve is by default with this design in mind, soloable.
If pve is not soloable, then you are encouraging group play. I think there is a way around the design of pve being not solable and still offering content to the person that just logs in,
1. lfg finder for certain instanced content (it helps)
2. mini games while waiting to form a group (similar to lfg, but assuming that there are more people playing pvp mini games that you do not have to wait as much before getting to the content)
3. In city content can be soloable
4. Following NPCs, assuming advanced AI and there are NPCs with their factions fighting each other, and you can tag along to increase your ratings - similar to a OWPVP event
5. Public quest near a road (similar to previous point but once is more pvp, and alignment and public quest is more about an epic boss and loot)
Then venturing in PVE will require an actual group or raid.
People wont be so lonely I think based on that. In themepark MMOs people barely have a chance to even talk socially when engaged in pvp/combat. So even if they are grouped they might not be able to socialize that much, but with mini games it gives them more of a chance since it doesnt necessarily use combat mechanics if its a card game for example.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
As far as I am concerned, the moment a developer removes any requirement to be social in an MMO, they are shooting that MMO in the foot.
MMO's are supposed to be about playing a large game with real people and being social. Not playing an large game with real people to mostly ignore other players.
What's the point of an MMO if you are removing the requirement to be social?
My MMO experience has pretty much tanked since I stopped playing EQ2 and never managed to find a decent guild again. I've tried many, but either TS was a requirement (wife plays in the same room so not an option all the time), or guild chat was devoid of any activity, people never answered questions, or were interested in grouping, or guild drama abounded. Even my return to WoW for Draenor was without success in finding a guild.
It's a shame since, for me, MMOs are all about socialising and playing with others and I can't enjoy them playing alone. It has meant I've managed to complete a lot of my Steam backlog for RPGs though
In that same boat myself it's even harder make new ones if you have been around the MMO scene for quite some time. Back when I first started WoW, I use to have about 5-6 in-game friends and on good terms with a casual raiding guild that from time to time needed a little extra assistance. After a few years, those friends are gone now and as for the guild, while they are sorta still around, they have been inactive since mid-Cata. I have tried my best to make new friends and new guild affiliations but haven't much luck with that. Even so, WoW is the only MMO that I play that I have plenty to do with or without friends or a guild to back me. So I'm fine with that.
Other MMOs' though, are another story. Currently I'm playing Blade&Soul and it's an absolute nightmare finding a clan or even new friends to play with. I did start with a clan before the game launched but everyone disappeared without a trace after a month. Did make a few friends for assistance with the endgame content but by time I actually hit max level they disappeared. Been apart a few other clans but no one would ever talk to me even when I am the one who tried to start a discussion. Or they do talk but they only run stuff with people they know or have upgrades that they can practically steamroll current content. Currently now, most clans in that game only want to recruit players that can steamroll stuff or a very least close to steamrolling content.
Some of this is my fault I guess. When I started in early access to a few months ago, I took my time leveling. I wanted to enjoy the game rather than blazing through content and by doing that I got way behind in gear upgrades and not even close to catching up. Playing solo is sorta out of the option in this one. While you can pretty much solo everything up to Moonwater, Silverfrost is more like a kick in the teeth. I'm still playing, but all I do now is just level a new character to 50 then start over again on another. I like the game for it's combat but hate it for accessibility after hitting max level and other players unwillingness to help other players who a struggling to get a foothold in BnS.
Join Grievance, problem solved. they are very nice people and they talk all the time (it's required to be on Team Speak when in game). Additionally they are a multi game guild and have forums so they communicate outside of the game.
Honestly, I've never liked multi-gaming guilds especially long running ones. I've been in a few and most of them only cared about numbers or doing stuff with players they have known from the start of these guilds. To be successful in these types, you really need to stand out or attempt to make friends with players who haven't been there longer than 6 months. As of Grievance, I remember when I did bite the bullet and decided to try and join them, when I sworn off joining another multi-gaming guild just to keep moving forward in Skyforge since I gotten as far as I could on my own. I think I talked to one officer after I put in an application, but never heard back from them again. Eventually left Skyforge since I couldn't do anything else in it.
As far as I am concerned, the moment a developer removes any requirement to be social in an MMO, they are shooting that MMO in the foot.
MMO's are supposed to be about playing a large game with real people and being social. Not playing an large game with real people to mostly ignore other players.
What's the point of an MMO if you are removing the requirement to be social?
I agree and disagree with that. It's good to be social in MMOs but it's not always a requirement depending what MMO you are playing what kind of content you are trying to do.
MMORPG's are no longer being designed to foster social interaction. They've simply become part of the greater pool of video games, most of which are marketed to single players, not groups.
Very few players will refuse to play a new MMO because it doesn't have a requirement to group. They may complain about it, but they'll still play.
However, many players will refuse to play that MMO if grouping is a big part of game play.
People will play an mmo alone and solo because alot of mmo's have better combat than singleplayer rpgs. It doesn't require you to watch alot of cutscenes or take notice of the story. MMo's are a very handy piece of entertainment also you can trade on an auction house or buy items. Eventually most people will play with others in dungeons when ever they feel like or if there is pvp you can try to kill someone if that's your thing. You can walk away from and mmo and you never have to save your game. Ever tried these single player game where you forgot to save often or 1 save equals 15mb??
Has it's good and bad sides like you can't go do the weekly raids whenever you want unless you count LFR as raiding but then you can just log in whenever you want and do your own thing without worrying about anything else. I rather join a private channel which acts as an unofficial guild these days that way you don't have any commitments or expectations.
Shooting shit with strangers in global chat - sort of surface social interaction - it's not very meaningful, and for most individuals it's not very fullfiling - and this is how many players experience solo centric games - just a bunch of players soloing with global chat - it's sucky for many, for some who are happy-go-lucky and almost never feel alone - this is perfect as they're not playing games for social fullfilment.
I suppose that's me, I don't play these games for social fulfillment. I enjoy meeting people but don't require any particular interaction. I'm probably way too social in my day to day life.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Join Grievance, problem solved. they are very nice people and they talk all the time (it's required to be on Team Speak when in game). Additionally they are a multi game guild and have forums so they communicate outside of the game.
Eh, tried, whomever is in charge of applications is rude or something.
Yep most of their leadership can be abrasive, their leader especially. They had huge drama in their Archeage chapter because of his shenanigans.
Join Grievance, problem solved. they are very nice people and they talk all the time (it's required to be on Team Speak when in game). Additionally they are a multi game guild and have forums so they communicate outside of the game.
Eh, tried, whomever is in charge of applications is rude or something.
Yep most of their leadership can be abrasive, their leader especially. They had huge drama in their Archeage chapter because of his shenanigans.
This has never been my experience when dealing with them, but ymmv.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
One can be lonely in middle of thousands of people or not lonely when physically alone. Is state of mind. There have been times I enjoyed pvp (Wow battlegrounds, Warhammer), not totally lost any interest, enjoyed 5man in wow or in other games, now could not care less, except maybe when I'm done leveling majority of my alts at least. Now i feel to play completeyl alone when I have time, I concentrate on game, discovery, ... and I do not miss at all company. Still willing to help if somebody need for some quest.
The last time I enjoyed being in the guild was when I'm playing RF Online. Now that I aged, my friends and I are playing different games, it suits me to just play solo. If I want friends, then I just chat whoever is in the map, or txt my RL friends to hang out.
BTW, I am playing Albion Online since its close-close-close beta tests, the community there is quite sociable, while I'm just minding my own business or farming in my private island.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Most MMO's only have this problem with dead servers. SWOTR was so big you could go awhile without seeing another player on some planets.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Eh, tried, whomever is in charge of applications is rude or something.
I like TeamSpeak but agree that it shouldn't be mandatory, today's in-game chat systems are a lot better than the early MMOs and are useful for spotting potential friends for a guild/team.
Actually TS is one of the best ways to talk to people, in game. Are you going to type, "Excuse me, my baby just vomited on the floor I need to clean it.' On TS you can ay it faster and be done.
At 2010 ish they started to become more "You may team up if you wish".
At this current date all but very marginalized games are "You shouldn't team up it only hurts your efficiency".
If 1+1 is not greater than 2, there is no driver for interaction and this is purely a game design decision. If in the game's core is the ideology that content can be soloed, it will be soloed. If the dev team has made the choice that everyone can heal, no one needs a healer. If balance is handled so that everyone is on equal level with everyone else there is no emergent need for anyone else. If you can teleport, no one needs those who can expedite travel. If you can instantly join a PUG, no one needs to talk. If you can easily repeat all content and the reward is at same location to everyone no one needs to help anyone and everyone helps themselves. If you can trade by talking to NPC you're never really trading.
If you can easily and without penalty troll, do bad job, leave, be replaced no one never needs to act properly, be polite, stay in good terms with the community or help anyone else.
And this is what MMORPG's have become, and that's why you're lonely when your primary out of game community (where these rules exist for different reason) stops playing.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
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Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
If pve is not soloable, then you are encouraging group play. I think there is a way around the design of pve being not solable and still offering content to the person that just logs in,
1. lfg finder for certain instanced content (it helps)
2. mini games while waiting to form a group (similar to lfg, but assuming that there are more people playing pvp mini games that you do not have to wait as much before getting to the content)
3. In city content can be soloable
4. Following NPCs, assuming advanced AI and there are NPCs with their factions fighting each other, and you can tag along to increase your ratings - similar to a OWPVP event
5. Public quest near a road (similar to previous point but once is more pvp, and alignment and public quest is more about an epic boss and loot)
Then venturing in PVE will require an actual group or raid.
People wont be so lonely I think based on that. In themepark MMOs people barely have a chance to even talk socially when engaged in pvp/combat. So even if they are grouped they might not be able to socialize that much, but with mini games it gives them more of a chance since it doesnt necessarily use combat mechanics if its a card game for example.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
MMO's are supposed to be about playing a large game with real people and being social. Not playing an large game with real people to mostly ignore other players.
What's the point of an MMO if you are removing the requirement to be social?
It's a shame since, for me, MMOs are all about socialising and playing with others and I can't enjoy them playing alone. It has meant I've managed to complete a lot of my Steam backlog for RPGs though
Other MMOs' though, are another story. Currently I'm playing Blade&Soul and it's an absolute nightmare finding a clan or even new friends to play with. I did start with a clan before the game launched but everyone disappeared without a trace after a month. Did make a few friends for assistance with the endgame content but by time I actually hit max level they disappeared. Been apart a few other clans but no one would ever talk to me even when I am the one who tried to start a discussion. Or they do talk but they only run stuff with people they know or have upgrades that they can practically steamroll current content. Currently now, most clans in that game only want to recruit players that can steamroll stuff or a very least close to steamrolling content.
Some of this is my fault I guess. When I started in early access to a few months ago, I took my time leveling. I wanted to enjoy the game rather than blazing through content and by doing that I got way behind in gear upgrades and not even close to catching up. Playing solo is sorta out of the option in this one. While you can pretty much solo everything up to Moonwater, Silverfrost is more like a kick in the teeth. I'm still playing, but all I do now is just level a new character to 50 then start over again on another. I like the game for it's combat but hate it for accessibility after hitting max level and other players unwillingness to help other players who a struggling to get a foothold in BnS.
Honestly, I've never liked multi-gaming guilds especially long running ones. I've been in a few and most of them only cared about numbers or doing stuff with players they have known from the start of these guilds. To be successful in these types, you really need to stand out or attempt to make friends with players who haven't been there longer than 6 months. As of Grievance, I remember when I did bite the bullet and decided to try and join them, when I sworn off joining another multi-gaming guild just to keep moving forward in Skyforge since I gotten as far as I could on my own. I think I talked to one officer after I put in an application, but never heard back from them again. Eventually left Skyforge since I couldn't do anything else in it.
I agree and disagree with that. It's good to be social in MMOs but it's not always a requirement depending what MMO you are playing what kind of content you are trying to do.
Very few players will refuse to play a new MMO because it doesn't have a requirement to group. They may complain about it, but they'll still play.
However, many players will refuse to play that MMO if grouping is a big part of game play.
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Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yep most of their leadership can be abrasive, their leader especially. They had huge drama in their Archeage chapter because of his shenanigans.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
BTW, I am playing Albion Online since its close-close-close beta tests, the community there is quite sociable, while I'm just minding my own business or farming in my private island.