Yeah, Chris Roberts and Star Citizen is the biggest lie of all time.
I don't think Paul B with Mythic was really a liar he was just an unfiltered hype-man, they told us too much about the game too early, then the cuts started to happen...
GW2 is the one that pissed me off the most. I remember leveling up and barely saw any big chain-story style events like they promised. You'd spend 90% of your time doing hearts and POIs. Then, finally got to cap after a break, saw that "end game" was really the same 3-4 event chains or boss events over and over and just.... no. Living world? HAH! They tried to sell a MUCH grander vision than we got.
The majority of Developers/publishers are the equivelant of a used car salesman or a snake-oil peddler , with no integrity , That slap together crap games , The most creative things they come up with these days are ways into your wallet .. ...
Yeah, Chris Roberts and Star Citizen is the biggest lie of all time.
I don't think Paul B with Mythic was really a liar he was just an unfiltered hype-man, they told us too much about the game too early, then the cuts started to happen...
GW2 is the one that pissed me off the most. I remember leveling up and barely saw any big chain-story style events like they promised. You'd spend 90% of your time doing hearts and POIs. Then, finally got to cap after a break, saw that "end game" was really the same 3-4 event chains or boss events over and over and just.... no. Living world? HAH! They tried to sell a MUCH grander vision than we got.
You didn't experience plentiful world events in GW2? They weren't running all the time, but I'm pretty sure I'd see at least one every ~15 minutes while leveling. I was moderately interested in them, so I chased a moderate amount of them across the zone (they weren't always in my immediate vicinity). Could've certainly gone for more if that's what I was really interested in.
They definitely did lend a sense that the world was living while leveling -- if you didn't defend an area, that town was wiped out for probably the rest of your gaming session unless you started some other chain and deliberately rushed it through to completion to revert the town's status.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Or they could rezone and pop into an instance that was on a different stage of said events. Y'know, same strategy many used to gather resources endlessly early on until ANet finally changed it up some and population changed.
Those quests were also very quickly understood to exist in a relatively binary state much like the rifts in, well, Rift.
Will point out though that there was an overarching story quest that carried your character through those zones as well as the living story is actually still going too, and part of the point of it is that it's a relatively regularly released snippet of content that continually progresses the lore and state of the world in steps. It actually is there, and we've seen the likes of Lionsarch revamped multiple times over because of it, but it is not something that does massive changes to the entire game or dump a heap of content at once, that's not how it was designed to work.
That just doesn't work well for people that want to just consume the content. It feel like the content is "missing". Which I would say that's more of a user issue than a game issue. It's just not the right kinda game for the user as the narrative is being delivered in a different manner than other themeparks.
And I find the little votes Axe and Craft make instead of giving reasonable arguments to be rather amusingly cheeky. If you two have a valid argument to make, then please make it. Getting called out for trolling, acting indignant, and not having the means to defend yourself is certainly telling on it's own, but you could at least fall back to admitting that you were arguing for an opinion and not a fact.
Like how craft did so again on this post. It's pointlessly passive aggressive and would be much simpler if they said they don't have a point and be done with it instead of looking for a way to abuse a forum tool.
Post edited by Deivos on
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
SWTOR may have lied about the F2P/Cash Shop but they never lied about their advertisement of the game, it really is a story driven mmo. Bioware never managing to deliver the Hype isn't lying, I guess it does depending on how you define lies.
The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
personally i think the biggest lie to date has to be Chris Roberts. i mean the dude has been promising now for what? ....4 years and counting? the list of things he's promised is so long most people probably don't even remember 1/4 of it.
thing is, he can just keep saying the game is "in development" 10 years from now and, technically, that gives him an excuse for not having EVERY feature he promised (or any). it's a crafty and devious lie, but still a lie.
i paid for my ship like 2 years ago....where is my game Roberts?
It's not like you and others like you weren't warned. People have to stop throwing money at everything. Count it as a lesson learned.
Hype works because the imagination fills in the unknown parts based on our hopes and dreams. Unless you've really been badly burned in the past, then everything looks bad.
The hype is slowly stopping working and the game companies haven't realized it. Alot of us don't believe their lies anymore. Its why most of us consider the genre failing.
Hype works because the imagination fills in the unknown parts based on our hopes and dreams. Unless you've really been badly burned in the past, then everything looks bad.
The hype is slowly stopping working and the game companies haven't realized it. Alot of us don't believe their lies anymore. Its why most of us consider the genre failing.
The hype isn't "failing" at all, it still works 100%. Most hype comes from gamers, not game developers.
That's because gamers WANT it to work. They want to believe ! They want to become excited !
That's why people still give 3 unknown developers $1.3M to produce a MMO that is promised to be better than anything ever produced before...
Hype works because the imagination fills in the unknown parts based on our hopes and dreams. Unless you've really been badly burned in the past, then everything looks bad.
The hype is slowly stopping working and the game companies haven't realized it. Alot of us don't believe their lies anymore. Its why most of us consider the genre failing.
The hype isn't "failing" at all, it still works 100%. Most hype comes from gamers, not game developers.
That's because gamers WANT it to work. They want to believe ! They want to become excited !
That's why people still give 3 unknown developers $1.3M to produce a MMO that is promised to be better than anything ever produced before...
I sort of agree with this, but I also feel like marketing sets the tone of the conversation.
No Man's Sky is a great example. From the start it looked like nothing special, and after release the streams seem to confirm that it's an inferior version of Starbound. But I feel like the extreme hype over the game was set by the early trailer (and to a lesser degree the articles) which provided a framework with almost no details for players' minds to fill in the gaps with whatever gameplay they'd imagine. So while the hype was in players' minds (as it always is) the tone was set by the early marketing. Meanwhile after watching another 30-40 mins of streams on the second monitor while working, NMS only makes me want to go back and spend more time in Starbound, with its better crafting, better combat challenges, more purposeful exploration, and more varied exploration.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
So in other words, you disagree with your original post/claim, and agree with Gains, Scorch, and I now.
Going from quibbling over how nothing is a lie to admitting, as was the point of those you argued against, that what someone shares of a game, it's concept, or their vision for the game can set player's expectations vastly askew and can be seen as distinctly dishonest with detrimental impact on both the users and rest of the developer team...
I mean I'm happy you can learn, but it appears that it only works in the context of you wishing to be contrary with people. As hence your response to Gekko.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Hype works because the imagination fills in the unknown parts based on our hopes and dreams. Unless you've really been badly burned in the past, then everything looks bad.
The hype is slowly stopping working and the game companies haven't realized it. Alot of us don't believe their lies anymore. Its why most of us consider the genre failing.
The hype isn't "failing" at all, it still works 100%. Most hype comes from gamers, not game developers.
That's because gamers WANT it to work. They want to believe ! They want to become excited !
That's why people still give 3 unknown developers $1.3M to produce a MMO that is promised to be better than anything ever produced before...
Yes, and then a month, two months, three months later, they are talking about how much the game sucks. If the hype still works on you, then you are being blind on purpose. Personally I don't believe a word of it. Give it 6 months or more from release and THEN you will see the truth of things. But hype? Is nothing.
personally i think the biggest lie to date has to be Chris Roberts. i mean the dude has been promising now for what? ....4 years and counting? the list of things he's promised is so long most people probably don't even remember 1/4 of it.
thing is, he can just keep saying the game is "in development" 10 years from now and, technically, that gives him an excuse for not having EVERY feature he promised (or any). it's a crafty and devious lie, but still a lie.
i paid for my ship like 2 years ago....where is my game Roberts?
It's called Arena Commander. You haven't tried it? It's actually pretty good.
A game on the scope of Star Citizen can't be delivered on overnight but they have actually been making fairly good progress and showing it to the community as they go along.
I only follow Star Citizen pretty loosely as I don't want to burn out pre-release or even on the inevitably buggy release but when I do check in I'm always pretty impressed with their progress and the quality of what they do have out.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the first low featured bug filled release of the full MMO in the next year or two. And that's fine by me.
Darkfall 2010. 2010 came and went and there was no update. Then all of a sudden "By the way, we're going to be wiping the servers soon because we're completely re-releasing the game and doing a bunch of things nobody asked for or wanted!"
That said, the worst lie I have ever heard was by NCsoft: "NCsoft will continue its efforts to eradicate all illegal programs to protect an orderly and healthy gaming culture" - Lee Jae-sung, Director of public relations at NCsoft
Do you have evidence that NCsoft didn't continue its efforts at all?
A single patch with efforts at combatting all illegal programs would represent 'continued efforts'.
It doesn't excuse the bot-ridden state of L2, nor the terrible CS policy of banning legit players and not banning botters, but it doesn't represent a lie. It's just terrible game management. Being terrible doesn't make someone a liar.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Title should have been, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me".
We should all be ashamed of ourselves.
Fool me trice, and no one cares anymore.
No Man's Sky is probably the biggest pile of lies I ever ever seen. Where's the limit? Where do we draw the line between "we tried but we had to cut" and false advertisement? We're being fooled so much that no one really cares anymore.
Just experience, like hundreds of reports from myself against a bot group that wouldn't leave an area so I could finish a quest for my 3rd class change. Months later the bot group was still there. That was when I put /signed above my head and got my character banned.
But I would say alone refusing to ban bots and banning legit players complaining about bots instead is the exact opposite of that statement (terrible management or not, that is no excuse).
Also, when we were mass-submitting gm tickets to ban the bots we were facing that took over our server, they "patched" a limit of being only able to submit 5 tickets per day.
Experience?
No, listen to what I'm saying. What you called the worst lie was, "NCsoft will continue its efforts to eradicate all illegal programs to protect an orderly and healthy gaming culture". Either you have evidence that no effort whatsoever was continued, or you admit they didn't lie. That's it.
I mean it seems clear to me they were both incompetent at achieving that goal and used terrible business practices in banning legit players while ignoring farmers.
Criticizing incompetence and business practices are legit. Calling them liars is not legit.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Do you really have no real input aside from trying to find the most insignificant detail to quibble about?
Even if NCSoft did not lie about that specific instance and possibly even was looking at doing legitimate bans on bot farmers and what-not, you are talking about what was apparently a short window before which they turned to do something that runs counter to their initial statement, meaning they went back on their word, which does actually constitute a lie in that case.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
I don't think Paul B with Mythic was really a liar he was just an unfiltered hype-man, they told us too much about the game too early, then the cuts started to happen...
GW2 is the one that pissed me off the most. I remember leveling up and barely saw any big chain-story style events like they promised. You'd spend 90% of your time doing hearts and POIs. Then, finally got to cap after a break, saw that "end game" was really the same 3-4 event chains or boss events over and over and just.... no. Living world? HAH! They tried to sell a MUCH grander vision than we got.
They definitely did lend a sense that the world was living while leveling -- if you didn't defend an area, that town was wiped out for probably the rest of your gaming session unless you started some other chain and deliberately rushed it through to completion to revert the town's status.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Those quests were also very quickly understood to exist in a relatively binary state much like the rifts in, well, Rift.
Will point out though that there was an overarching story quest that carried your character through those zones as well as the living story is actually still going too, and part of the point of it is that it's a relatively regularly released snippet of content that continually progresses the lore and state of the world in steps. It actually is there, and we've seen the likes of Lionsarch revamped multiple times over because of it, but it is not something that does massive changes to the entire game or dump a heap of content at once, that's not how it was designed to work.
That just doesn't work well for people that want to just consume the content. It feel like the content is "missing". Which I would say that's more of a user issue than a game issue. It's just not the right kinda game for the user as the narrative is being delivered in a different manner than other themeparks.
And I find the little votes Axe and Craft make instead of giving reasonable arguments to be rather amusingly cheeky. If you two have a valid argument to make, then please make it. Getting called out for trolling, acting indignant, and not having the means to defend yourself is certainly telling on it's own, but you could at least fall back to admitting that you were arguing for an opinion and not a fact.
Like how craft did so again on this post. It's pointlessly passive aggressive and would be much simpler if they said they don't have a point and be done with it instead of looking for a way to abuse a forum tool.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
That's because gamers WANT it to work.
They want to believe !
They want to become excited !
That's why people still give 3 unknown developers $1.3M to produce a MMO that is promised to be better than anything ever produced before...
No Man's Sky is a great example. From the start it looked like nothing special, and after release the streams seem to confirm that it's an inferior version of Starbound. But I feel like the extreme hype over the game was set by the early trailer (and to a lesser degree the articles) which provided a framework with almost no details for players' minds to fill in the gaps with whatever gameplay they'd imagine. So while the hype was in players' minds (as it always is) the tone was set by the early marketing. Meanwhile after watching another 30-40 mins of streams on the second monitor while working, NMS only makes me want to go back and spend more time in Starbound, with its better crafting, better combat challenges, more purposeful exploration, and more varied exploration.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Going from quibbling over how nothing is a lie to admitting, as was the point of those you argued against, that what someone shares of a game, it's concept, or their vision for the game can set player's expectations vastly askew and can be seen as distinctly dishonest with detrimental impact on both the users and rest of the developer team...
I mean I'm happy you can learn, but it appears that it only works in the context of you wishing to be contrary with people. As hence your response to Gekko.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/We should all be ashamed of ourselves.
A game on the scope of Star Citizen can't be delivered on overnight but they have actually been making fairly good progress and showing it to the community as they go along.
I only follow Star Citizen pretty loosely as I don't want to burn out pre-release or even on the inevitably buggy release but when I do check in I'm always pretty impressed with their progress and the quality of what they do have out.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the first low featured bug filled release of the full MMO in the next year or two. And that's fine by me.
A single patch with efforts at combatting all illegal programs would represent 'continued efforts'.
It doesn't excuse the bot-ridden state of L2, nor the terrible CS policy of banning legit players and not banning botters, but it doesn't represent a lie. It's just terrible game management. Being terrible doesn't make someone a liar.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No Man's Sky is probably the biggest pile of lies I ever ever seen. Where's the limit? Where do we draw the line between "we tried but we had to cut" and false advertisement? We're being fooled so much that no one really cares anymore.
No, listen to what I'm saying. What you called the worst lie was, "NCsoft will continue its efforts to eradicate all illegal programs to protect an orderly and healthy gaming culture". Either you have evidence that no effort whatsoever was continued, or you admit they didn't lie. That's it.
I mean it seems clear to me they were both incompetent at achieving that goal and used terrible business practices in banning legit players while ignoring farmers.
Criticizing incompetence and business practices are legit. Calling them liars is not legit.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Even if NCSoft did not lie about that specific instance and possibly even was looking at doing legitimate bans on bot farmers and what-not, you are talking about what was apparently a short window before which they turned to do something that runs counter to their initial statement, meaning they went back on their word, which does actually constitute a lie in that case.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
What you thought they said "When you save a village that village remains saved forever"
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver