Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Thread derail about Kyleran's signature. So you've played EVE since 2007? That's hardly an accomplishment. The majority of rerolled posters began in the days of EverQuest. Many started at day 1, March 16th, 1999. Some of us date back to MUDS (text based games) or Virtual MUDS like Sierra's The Realm.
Just thought I would share a brief gaming history with you.
EDIT: The Realm came out in 1996. God damn, 20 years ago. I feel old.
Thread derail about Kyleran's signature. So you've played EVE since 2007? That's hardly an accomplishment. The majority of rerolled posters began in the days of EverQuest. Many started at day 1, March 16th, 1999. Some of us date back to MUDS (text based games) or Virtual MUDS like Sierra's The Realm.
Just thought I would share a brief gaming history with you.
EDIT: The Realm came out in 1996. God damn, 20 years ago. I feel old.
Can't believe I created an account here just to thumbs up this post. Asked for EQ for my 15th b-day, 3/4/99. Found out about EQ through FFVII message boards on AOL. Parents bought a second phone line in May, for my brother's EQ account, when he turned 13.
Edit: Found FoH, eventually registered in 2002. Proud to have lurked ever since.
I feel sorry for Craig because he lost some money. I am happy for the mmorpg.com members that those forum users jumped ship. Judging by this thread alone makes me glad they won't stick around, belittleing and aggressive in their posting.
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Thats the point, their home is compromised. Sure, one of their own made the initial sale but Craig who failed to disclose the change in regime, which I imagine felt something like your favorite mom and pop diner being bought out by McDonalds, or really giving them a reason NOT to have an exodus.
Say what you want about rerolled and their conduct, but craig and company were the ones that told us on mmorpg.com that they couldnt keep the lights on and we needed to pay a sub or disable adblock then they drop 20k on a poorly researched, poorly executed purchase.
I totally get that their home has been compromised and that the change of ownership and the new 'house rules' could and should have been communicated better.
However, it is no excuse for some of the behavior when coming over to 'our' home to complain about certain things. They want to be treated with decency and respect with their closely knit community and long time gaming history, I would expect the same in return, alas...
it is a shame as well. I am a massive Sierra fan and would love to hear some stories about The Realm and how it was back in the day, I've been playing most of their games except that one.
I get the frustration, I do not get the attitude when coming over to our home.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Thread derail about Kyleran's signature. So you've played EVE since 2007? That's hardly an accomplishment. The majority of rerolled posters began in the days of EverQuest. Many started at day 1, March 16th, 1999. Some of us date back to MUDS (text based games) or Virtual MUDS like Sierra's The Realm.
Just thought I would share a brief gaming history with you.
EDIT: The Realm came out in 1996. God damn, 20 years ago. I feel old.
Thank god your mom and dad spit you out before some of us. Then again a few of us are even older and have many earlier experiences then even you. I just find it kinda silly that you would brag about it. You're old, congrats!
I feel sorry for Craig because he lost some money. I am happy for the mmorpg.com members that those forum users jumped ship. Judging by this thread alone makes me glad they won't stick around, belittleing and aggressive in their posting.
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Thats the point, their home is compromised. Sure, one of their own made the initial sale but Craig who failed to disclose the change in regime, which I imagine felt something like your favorite mom and pop diner being bought out by McDonalds, or really giving them a reason NOT to have an exodus.
Say what you want about rerolled and their conduct, but craig and company were the ones that told us on mmorpg.com that they couldnt keep the lights on and we needed to pay a sub or disable adblock then they drop 20k on a poorly researched, poorly executed purchase.
I totally get that their home has been compromised and that the change of ownership and the new 'house rules' could and should have been communicated better.
However, it is no excuse for some of the behavior when coming over to 'our' home to complain about certain things. They want to be treated with decency and respect with their closely knit community and long time gaming history, I would expect the same in return, alas...
it is a shame as well. I am a massive Sierra fan and would love to hear some stories about The Realm and how it was back in the day, I've been playing most of their games except that one.
I get the frustration, I do not get the attitude when coming over to our home.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
They feel entitled, like they were owed something. They speak about how they understand business, yet don't understand why they were not consulted. They then did something that so many others can't do, abandon the product. So now the product is worthless, they technically win here, but they are entitled and want there sour little butts kissed. They may be older gamers, but they sure act like little kids.
The majority of us know that Craig owes us nothing. I personally could care less if we ever get the data from the old forums, just that our community stays together. I think some of us took umbrage to the fact that earlier posts in this thread by the denizens of this forum either flat out stated or implied that we were somehow obligated to continue frequenting a forum that would most likely no longer cater to our preferred posting habits. It isn't our responsibility to make a stupid purchase on his part any better.
The majority of us know that Craig owes us nothing. I personally could care less if we ever get the data from the old forums, just that our community stays together. I think some of us took umbrage to the fact that earlier posts in this thread by the denizens of this forum either flat out stated or implied that we were somehow obligated to continue frequenting a forum that would most likely no longer cater to our preferred posting habits. It isn't our responsibility to make a stupid purchase on his part any better.
Thank you. For this clear and levelheaded response. I hope you guys can stay together as a community as well. less anger, frustration and boasting, more explaining and insight. So really, thank you. If we could all communicate like this. And that goes for both sides
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Thread derail about Kyleran's signature. So you've played EVE since 2007? That's hardly an accomplishment. The majority of rerolled posters began in the days of EverQuest. Many started at day 1, March 16th, 1999. Some of us date back to MUDS (text based games) or Virtual MUDS like Sierra's The Realm.
Just thought I would share a brief gaming history with you.
EDIT: The Realm came out in 1996. God damn, 20 years ago. I feel old.
I'm pretty sure Kyleran still has you beat. Quoting one of his recent posts:
I've been electronic gaming since the 70s, I really feel old.
I feel sorry for Craig because he lost some money. I am happy for the mmorpg.com members that those forum users jumped ship. Judging by this thread alone makes me glad they won't stick around, belittleing and aggressive in their posting.
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Thats the point, their home is compromised. Sure, one of their own made the initial sale but Craig who failed to disclose the change in regime, which I imagine felt something like your favorite mom and pop diner being bought out by McDonalds, or really giving them a reason NOT to have an exodus.
Say what you want about rerolled and their conduct, but craig and company were the ones that told us on mmorpg.com that they couldnt keep the lights on and we needed to pay a sub or disable adblock then they drop 20k on a poorly researched, poorly executed purchase.
I totally get that their home has been compromised and that the change of ownership and the new 'house rules' could and should have been communicated better.
However, it is no excuse for some of the behavior when coming over to 'our' home to complain about certain things. They want to be treated with decency and respect with their closely knit community and long time gaming history, I would expect the same in return, alas...
it is a shame as well. I am a massive Sierra fan and would love to hear some stories about The Realm and how it was back in the day, I've been playing most of their games except that one.
I get the frustration, I do not get the attitude when coming over to our home.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
They feel entitled, like they were owed something. They speak about how they understand business, yet don't understand why they were not consulted. They then did something that so many others can't do, abandon the product. So now the product is worthless, they technically win here, but they are entitled and want there sour little butts kissed. They may be older gamers, but they sure act like little kids.
We'll pass on your ass-kissing, I think we just felt you all deserved to know where those thousands of "keep the lights on" dollars were being tossed while you're forced to look at the eye-AIDS masquerading as ads here.
They feel entitled, like they were owed something. They speak about how
they understand business, yet don't understand why they were not
consulted. They then did something that so many others can't do, abandon
the product. So now the product is worthless, they technically win
here, but they are entitled and want there sour little butts kissed.
They may be older gamers, but they sure act like little kids.
Ah, so we finally get to the crux of why the users here are so salty: "They then did something that so many others can't do"
I'm just...I mean...hahahahaha...give me a second to stop laughingat how absurd this is.
Enjoy your ad-infected safe-space that you think you're incapable of leaving. Go ahead and tell yourselves that leaving a forum is a BAD THING and that we are BAD PEOPLE because we didn't huddle together, shivering in the cold, thanking Mr. Craig profusely for trying to trade us secretly as chattel and then offering to placate us with promises of being left alone in solitude and 'new forum software', when we can simply look here and cringe at how THAT worked out for all of you here. A forum so heavily moderated that you can't even have off-topic discussions about religion or politics; a forum so painful to look at that it's as if the Umbrella Corporation infected Geocities with the T-virus.
But yeah, we totally should have shackled ourselves to MMORPG.com!
You know what's amazing? the Timeline. Literally in less than 10 business days rerolled did a mass exodus and 90% of the people that mattered, gtfo.
You know why? cuz we "pwn s***", no literally many of us are made up of the creme de le creme of gaming min/max, users.
We don't know how to live life any other way. Our A team got organized and found a new home in a matter of hours. Our B team then gave the call to pull the "Noah's Ark, forget the gat damn Giraffes!!!" maneuver.
By Monday nearly half of the old site had already moved in, everyone w/o even saying a gat damn thing, were off doing what was necessary to keep the new forum usable.
wtf do i mean by usable?
It's Monday, the purpose of the forum is to slack off at work, get paid to browse interwebs?
YES PLEASE!
And that's what we did, we re created old threads, we went to work "filling out" our forums, we began acting like it was just a normal monday, and the status quo was normal. We chalked the hiccup and new website to the really cruddy old vbulletin software we were forced to endure that failed us multiple times.
Those of you at mmorpg recognize just how amazing we are, wow, sorry, i just caught my reflection off the black screen, had to take a moment to admire the awesome...
Anyway, check the old forum, check the new forum, we ghost town'd the old place so bad Dodge Union Workers think it might be a habitable place.
How tight is your community that you can setup shop in a newer/better home and still see 90% of the familiar faces?
This place is a network of sites that sells advertising, and sure that's cool, it's a nice business model. In the end, you're a stat, as long as you tick the Google analytics page view counter, you matter. It doesn't actually matter if you view ads or not, that's not how the real money is made. It's made by showing an ad company how many daily page views you average and renting off that real estate for a month.
To put it in some narrative or perspective you "kiddies" might understand better, lets use Tinder. That is what we have created, we can swipe left or right or however that app works, and no one can tell us whom we like or don't like or can or can't netflix and chill. (idk, i've been w/ my wife for 20 years, i have no idea how you "kiddies" hook up now)
While you guys are at the behest of some other entity, you've basically subscribed to eharmony or match or whatever crappy old dating site that "allows" you to see other members, if THEY deem it so.
And you know what, many a cow has been met by another cow on eharmony and dats cool!, you know, keep on keeping on.
They feel entitled, like they were owed something. They speak about how
they understand business, yet don't understand why they were not
consulted. They then did something that so many others can't do, abandon
the product. So now the product is worthless, they technically win
here, but they are entitled and want there sour little butts kissed.
They may be older gamers, but they sure act like little kids.
Ah, so we finally get to the crux of why the users here are so salty: "They then did something that so many others can't do"
I'm just...I mean...hahahahaha...give me a second to stop laughingat how absurd this is.
Enjoy your ad-infected safe-space that you think you're incapable of leaving. Go ahead and tell yourselves that leaving a forum is a BAD THING and that we are BAD PEOPLE because we didn't huddle together, shivering in the cold, thanking Mr. Craig profusely for trying to trade us secretly as chattel and then offering to placate us with promises of being left alone in solitude and 'new forum software', when we can simply look here and cringe at how THAT worked out for all of you here. A forum so heavily moderated that you can't even have off-topic discussions about religion or politics; a forum so painful to look at that it's as if the Umbrella Corporation infected Geocities with the T-virus.
But yeah, we totally should have shackled ourselves to MMORPG.com!
You just saw what you wanted to see. I said in the very next sentence; they technically win here. I'm happy you did what so many others can't do. It just irritates me that you came here to rub your butts on the carpet in hopes that you might leave a stain. It seems you are just like the others, unable to completely read the paragraph.
I feel sorry for Craig because he lost some money. I am happy for the mmorpg.com members that those forum users jumped ship. Judging by this thread alone makes me glad they won't stick around, belittleing and aggressive in their posting.
Take your poison elsewhere and leave our community alone, go take it out on your own member that sold your website, not the one buying it, the 'enemy' has been one of your own, not ours. Surprise, surprise....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Thats the point, their home is compromised. Sure, one of their own made the initial sale but Craig who failed to disclose the change in regime, which I imagine felt something like your favorite mom and pop diner being bought out by McDonalds, or really giving them a reason NOT to have an exodus.
Say what you want about rerolled and their conduct, but craig and company were the ones that told us on mmorpg.com that they couldnt keep the lights on and we needed to pay a sub or disable adblock then they drop 20k on a poorly researched, poorly executed purchase.
I totally get that their home has been compromised and that the change of ownership and the new 'house rules' could and should have been communicated better.
However, it is no excuse for some of the behavior when coming over to 'our' home to complain about certain things. They want to be treated with decency and respect with their closely knit community and long time gaming history, I would expect the same in return, alas...
it is a shame as well. I am a massive Sierra fan and would love to hear some stories about The Realm and how it was back in the day, I've been playing most of their games except that one.
I get the frustration, I do not get the attitude when coming over to our home.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
They feel entitled, like they were owed something. They speak about how they understand business, yet don't understand why they were not consulted. They then did something that so many others can't do, abandon the product. So now the product is worthless, they technically win here, but they are entitled and want there sour little butts kissed. They may be older gamers, but they sure act like little kids.
We'll pass on your ass-kissing, I think we just felt you all deserved to know where those thousands of "keep the lights on" dollars were being tossed while you're forced to look at the eye-AIDS masquerading as ads here.
In all honestly, I'm glad you stopped by and gave us the heads up. It really shines a light on the situation where we need to turn off our adblockers. MMORPG makes a bad investment and we are now the ones going to have to make up the deficit. I already refuse to unblock anything after being insulted by that CEO and he never having the balls to apologize.
While I'm sure you guys are a fun bunch, you guys do come of as whiny, entitled and overall douchy.
They feel entitled, like they were owed something. They speak about how they understand business, yet don't understand why they were not consulted. They then did something that so many others can't do, abandon the product. So now the product is worthless, they technically win here, but they are entitled and want there sour little butts kissed. They may be older gamers, but they sure act like little kids.
You should read the thread. Most of us came here to post in response to someone who was talking about us "understanding business" by taking a "fair offer" on a deal for worthless data. You're right, we are old, many of us own business--we came to educate that person why his ideas of what business is are idiotic.
You johnny come lately into the thread at the end of it and apparently make up the events that suit your bias. Otherwise, I don't know how you arrived at this.
Also, we pretty clearly spelled out why we weren't consulted, in fact I gave two hypothetical reasons in my own post (Go read it). We simply said that was a mistake, given the style of community we run, and if Craig had done his due diligence, that would not have been the path he would have chosen most likely--the entire thread was about illustrating how Craig never looked at the product he was dumping money into.
Again, your posts seem to be making stuff up through extrapolation of the last couple of posts, not the whole thread.
something about all of this just echos with falsehood.
my point in all of this is the rerollers came to warn us, craig did some shady and dishonest things with them and all the while we are getting some shady and dishonest statements and actions here in our home forum.
i mean, the nose knows and this deal just didnt seem kosher.
we can bicker on who has greater business knowledge till we're blue in our collective faces but when this forum gets hit by a paywall because they "cant keep the lights on", then we find out about this, it raises some serious questions.
is craig just rubbing his hands together trying to find out new ways to nickel and dime us?
also, let us not pretend fires of heaven / rerolled was some run of the mill forum, it is among the oldest and most storied MMO communities in existence.
I'm looking to create a new star citizen website before it launches, how much do you think mmorpg would be sold for? I already paid $35k for my star citizen ships, so I'm in pretty deep already. Its not an MMO though, so my feeling is the website wouldn't fit the name very well.
something about all of this just echos with falsehood.
my point in all of this is the rerollers came to warn us, craig did some shady and dishonest things with them and all the while we are getting some shady and dishonest statements and actions here in our home forum.
i mean, the nose knows and this deal just didnt seem kosher.
we can bicker on who has greater business knowledge till we're blue in our collective faces but when this forum gets hit by a paywall because they "cant keep the lights on", then we find out about this, it raises some serious questions.
is craig just rubbing his hands together trying to find out new ways to nickel and dime us?
also, let us not pretend fires of heaven / rerolled was some run of the mill forum, it is among the oldest and most storied MMO communities in existence.
Um, no.
Craig bought a website. It's as simple as that. It happens all the time, all over the internet. No big deal.
Pardon my language, but everything else is bull$hit speculation and "What If" scenarios. If anything, Craig is real the victim in all of this, and the infantile-yet-elitist community over there just made things worse.
Not really speculation when you take a look at the draconian moderation your forum has. I mean you guys are disallowed from talking religion or politics even in off topic areas.
Craig bought a website. It's as simple as that. It happens all the time, all over the internet. No big deal.
Pardon my language, but everything else is bull$hit speculation and "What If" scenarios. If anything, Craig is real the victim in all of this, and the infantile-yet-elitist community over there just made things worse.
How is Craig a victim? he didn't domestically abused or battered or beaten.
No, Craig made a business decision. That's it.
It did not end well for Craig, b/c nothing went to plan for Craig. Craig saw the insane pageviews and most likely years of Google Analytics data, just those logs were probably enough to wet his appetite and open up his wallet, his thinking is that he can "add" rerolled to his network and get ad networks to pay for real estate. At worst, he won't be able to sell ads on rerolled itself, at least he can use the strength of rerolleds traffic to drive up the real estate of the other sites in his network (whatever they are, you guys can fill them in), thereby artificially inflating his ad real estate, he pretty much could not lose out on this deal.
There is no "victim" here in this business transaction.
There will be those that will be affected or suffer however, and it'll be you guys. The brunt of this purchase, the folly of it will trickle down this user base, from what I've seen, you're already getting "penny pinching" beggings of white listing this and threats of a pay wall and such. If anything, rerolled is looking out, by providing you guys with info and our currently experience in this whole matter.
So no, Craig is not a "victim", if you had to label someone as such, it would eventually be you guys.
The first message we saw from the new owner of the site was this:
Hello all, This is Craig McGregor - one of the owners of MMORPG.com. We purchased this site a few months back from the previous owners and honestly it was not represented to us very accurately. There was no mention that it was anything other than a "mmo community forum that was centered around an old EQ guild." Had I known what I know now - I never would have purchased it. Our intentions were just to get the page views in our network so that we could include rerolled.org in our banner ad campaigns. Note however that we have zero intentions of changing the site, the NSFW areas or the moderation rules. This site will not be related to MMORPG.com in any way other than it is owned by the same company. However, if the community flees to another domain/site then we will probably attempt to salvage the site by making it something else. Again, this would only be if traffic falls to near nothing. I heard mention from some in here that they would have purchased the site had they known it was for sale. We would probably sell the site now at a loss if anyone is interested in that. Thank you,
And the first non-troll response to Craig was this:
Draegan sold you a false bill of goods, Craig McGregor. He knew full well this community would not stand for having it being sold to someone else with no warning and no input. This community is older than MMORPG.com, with a more storied history. We may be few, but we are die hard and we will not be bought and sold for your profits. You will do nothing but lose money on this and here's the thing I want to make especially clear for you and your lawyers Draegan had every reason to know this was the case before he sold it.
We then suggested, had it been cost effective, that he look in to legal recourse for fraud, and we would have supported him going after Draegan. but since legal actions wouldn't be cost effective, we suggested that he take this loss as lesson on performing proper due diligence before making wanton purchases in the future, we wished him well and we abandoned the site.
The reason we did not assume that it would be cost effective is the sites value. The alexa rankings for our forums put the website at a value of approx 3k. We assumed that Draegan was just tired of dealing with the hassle of running it for pocket change in ad revenue and thus sold the site for peanuts, we speculated that he sold us out for approx 1-2k.
With this value in mind, our community extended an olive branch to your owner, offering to purchase the data from the previous forums to help offset his losses.
At this point we received his counter offer of 7k dollars for forum data, and realized just how badly craig was scammed. We looked at his counter offer combined with google analytics on page views (what he was really purchasing) and reverse engineered the price he paid to between 18-22k dollars, which we rounded off at 20k The fact that that number struck a nerve with him and his mod team means it must be very close to home.
See the thing is, while Craig admitted he initially performed no due diligence and had made a huge mistake in purchasing our site, he continued his failing by not doing any research after the purchase. He paid 10x over the value for the page views of a now defunct site without any page views.
In his desperation, he turned into a ransom situation. He had something which he believed was of value, our forums posts, but he knew his market was made up of one, us. It only had value to us, and he hoped to alleviate his financial blunder by shifting a portion of his losses on to us.
The thing is, though, this isn't the first time our community has moved homes, it's not even the 2nd or 3rd time this has happened. This is now the 5th time our community has changed homes: Noows, fohguild, morenetz, rerolled, firesofheaven. We have lost far more in the past and come out the other side. This transition was actually the smoothest one yet.
So here's the thing, and the reason we scoffed at his 7k counter offer:
1) What he was offering to sell back to us is merely the last 4 years out of nearly 20 years of history together as a community.
2) More importantly, most of that history is made up of photoshops of highlighters and tranny pics.
And then we were directed here to your forums, saw the eye-raping ad-cancer that is your layout and banner ads, your mods begging your members to stop using adblock and noscript, threatening to add paywalls, crying about keeping the lights on, etc, and we put it together.
So it turns out, your owner paid 20k dollars for the domain name rerolled.org. We hear he plans on burning it down and then converting it into a completely new site, focused on D&D and other table top gaming (what else to do with a URL rerolled?). So yeah after he dumps a ton of money and time into it to build a completely new site and community he may eventually be able to turn it into eye-aids and get some ad revenue from it. Until that time though, expect more Ads here to pay for all of that.
TLDR: Craig is bad at business, this is evident by the order of magnitude which he overpayed for an instantly-defunct community. He hoped to recoop some of his losses by holding our forum data ransom, expecting us to pay 7k dollars for some posts, mostly tranny pics and internet arguments between aspies and autists.
And that is, at least partially, why you guys are suffering from eye-aids with Ads on your site.
also, let us not pretend fires of heaven / rerolled was some run of the mill forum, it is among the oldest and most storied MMO communities in existence.
I don't get this, at all. Are you impressed by this, do they have some authority now, do we have to give them credit for it? When judging people in a social space like this, ALWAYS judge them by how they behave first, everything else later. This is no business space so credentials don't mean jack. And judging by their behavior I can't blame Draegan getting rid of the bunch. All I see is an alienated, isolated community that has created the perfect echo chamber about 'ultimate freedom of speech' and 'them evil ads urrrr, me clever eye-aids urrr let me insult urr urr.' A community that has been fondling each other for so long that they all think they are amazing. They are also too poor to pay for anything and rude enough to come over to our home and start acting like asses. Zero sympathy and zero respect is the result.
Yes, we have ads. yes, there is some moderation and probably more than a few of us would like. But it is OUR home and if you don't like it, please go away. You know what, I've got a better idea. How about we ask Craig for the specific amount of money he paid for your pool of vitriol and bile and then, instead of starting an optional subscription here, we ask for a huge Donate button where OUR community can donate some money for YOUR website so you can get it back and leave this place. I am pretty sure some of us are more then willing to spend some money on that, contrary to the amazing rerolled community.
I am sorry, I tried to be nice but it seems like nice isn't how some want to be treated so there you go. What goes around and all of that.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You're talking about an owner/business that claimed to be deploying a new site design to MMORPG.com, taking the site down for around 48 hours, only to end up deploying a slightly altered news post feed. It took them 6 months to set up new forum software, only to end up deploying one of the worst forum implementations of any major community site this side of Curse circa. 2009. The journalistic quality here is fanzine level. They have a far stronger, far more resilient domain than Curse ever has had or ever will have, and yet Curse manage to operate a multi-million dollar gaming network built up from an old guild site. More often than not, it very much appears like the team behind MMORPG.com have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
This is a site and a business built entirely on the domain, which is probably worth 5 or 10 times more money alone than they actually make from their entire network.
also, let us not pretend fires of heaven / rerolled was some run of the mill forum, it is among the oldest and most storied MMO communities in existence.
I am sorry, I tried to be nice but it seems like nice isn't how some want to be treated so there you go. What goes around and all of that.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
No, you didn't. You never "try to be nice". You often claim you're trying to be nice, but what you say you're doing and what you're actually doing are two very different things.
And you can't have a go at me for "not being part of "YOUR" community"; I've been here for a long, long time
Comments
/ mic drop
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just thought I would share a brief gaming history with you.
EDIT: The Realm came out in 1996. God damn, 20 years ago. I feel old.
Edit: Found FoH, eventually registered in 2002. Proud to have lurked ever since.
However, it is no excuse for some of the behavior when coming over to 'our' home to complain about certain things. They want to be treated with decency and respect with their closely knit community and long time gaming history, I would expect the same in return, alas...
it is a shame as well. I am a massive Sierra fan and would love to hear some stories about The Realm and how it was back in the day, I've been playing most of their games except that one.
I get the frustration, I do not get the attitude when coming over to our home.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I've been electronic gaming since the 70s, I really feel old.
I'm just...I mean...hahahahaha...give me a second to stop laughing at how absurd this is.
Enjoy your ad-infected safe-space that you think you're incapable of leaving. Go ahead and tell yourselves that leaving a forum is a BAD THING and that we are BAD PEOPLE because we didn't huddle together, shivering in the cold, thanking Mr. Craig profusely for trying to trade us secretly as chattel and then offering to placate us with promises of being left alone in solitude and 'new forum software', when we can simply look here and cringe at how THAT worked out for all of you here. A forum so heavily moderated that you can't even have off-topic discussions about religion or politics; a forum so painful to look at that it's as if the Umbrella Corporation infected Geocities with the T-virus.
But yeah, we totally should have shackled ourselves to MMORPG.com!
You know why? cuz we "pwn s***", no literally many of us are made up of the creme de le creme of gaming min/max, users.
We don't know how to live life any other way. Our A team got organized and found a new home in a matter of hours. Our B team then gave the call to pull the "Noah's Ark, forget the gat damn Giraffes!!!" maneuver.
By Monday nearly half of the old site had already moved in, everyone w/o even saying a gat damn thing, were off doing what was necessary to keep the new forum usable.
wtf do i mean by usable?
It's Monday, the purpose of the forum is to slack off at work, get paid to browse interwebs?
YES PLEASE!
And that's what we did, we re created old threads, we went to work "filling out" our forums, we began acting like it was just a normal monday, and the status quo was normal. We chalked the hiccup and new website to the really cruddy old vbulletin software we were forced to endure that failed us multiple times.
Those of you at mmorpg recognize just how amazing we are, wow, sorry, i just caught my reflection off the black screen, had to take a moment to admire the awesome...
Anyway, check the old forum, check the new forum, we ghost town'd the old place so bad Dodge Union Workers think it might be a habitable place.
How tight is your community that you can setup shop in a newer/better home and still see 90% of the familiar faces?
This place is a network of sites that sells advertising, and sure that's cool, it's a nice business model. In the end, you're a stat, as long as you tick the Google analytics page view counter, you matter. It doesn't actually matter if you view ads or not, that's not how the real money is made. It's made by showing an ad company how many daily page views you average and renting off that real estate for a month.
To put it in some narrative or perspective you "kiddies" might understand better, lets use Tinder. That is what we have created, we can swipe left or right or however that app works, and no one can tell us whom we like or don't like or can or can't netflix and chill. (idk, i've been w/ my wife for 20 years, i have no idea how you "kiddies" hook up now)
While you guys are at the behest of some other entity, you've basically subscribed to eharmony or match or whatever crappy old dating site that "allows" you to see other members, if THEY deem it so.
And you know what, many a cow has been met by another cow on eharmony and dats cool!, you know, keep on keeping on.
While I'm sure you guys are a fun bunch, you guys do come of as whiny, entitled and overall douchy.
You should read the thread. Most of us came here to post in response to someone who was talking about us "understanding business" by taking a "fair offer" on a deal for worthless data. You're right, we are old, many of us own business--we came to educate that person why his ideas of what business is are idiotic.
You johnny come lately into the thread at the end of it and apparently make up the events that suit your bias. Otherwise, I don't know how you arrived at this.
Also, we pretty clearly spelled out why we weren't consulted, in fact I gave two hypothetical reasons in my own post (Go read it). We simply said that was a mistake, given the style of community we run, and if Craig had done his due diligence, that would not have been the path he would have chosen most likely--the entire thread was about illustrating how Craig never looked at the product he was dumping money into.
Again, your posts seem to be making stuff up through extrapolation of the last couple of posts, not the whole thread.
my point in all of this is the rerollers came to warn us, craig did some shady and dishonest things with them and all the while we are getting some shady and dishonest statements and actions here in our home forum.
i mean, the nose knows and this deal just didnt seem kosher.
we can bicker on who has greater business knowledge till we're blue in our collective faces but when this forum gets hit by a paywall because they "cant keep the lights on", then we find out about this, it raises some serious questions.
is craig just rubbing his hands together trying to find out new ways to nickel and dime us?
also, let us not pretend fires of heaven / rerolled was some run of the mill forum, it is among the oldest and most storied MMO communities in existence.
Craig bought a website. It's as simple as that. It happens all the time, all over the internet. No big deal.
Pardon my language, but everything else is bull$hit speculation and "What If" scenarios. If anything, Craig is real the victim in all of this, and the infantile-yet-elitist community over there just made things worse.
No, Craig made a business decision. That's it.
It did not end well for Craig, b/c nothing went to plan for Craig. Craig saw the insane pageviews and most likely years of Google Analytics data, just those logs were probably enough to wet his appetite and open up his wallet, his thinking is that he can "add" rerolled to his network and get ad networks to pay for real estate. At worst, he won't be able to sell ads on rerolled itself, at least he can use the strength of rerolleds traffic to drive up the real estate of the other sites in his network (whatever they are, you guys can fill them in), thereby artificially inflating his ad real estate, he pretty much could not lose out on this deal.
There is no "victim" here in this business transaction.
There will be those that will be affected or suffer however, and it'll be you guys. The brunt of this purchase, the folly of it will trickle down this user base, from what I've seen, you're already getting "penny pinching" beggings of white listing this and threats of a pay wall and such. If anything, rerolled is looking out, by providing you guys with info and our currently experience in this whole matter.
So no, Craig is not a "victim", if you had to label someone as such, it would eventually be you guys.
The first message we saw from the new owner of the site was this:
This is Craig McGregor - one of the owners of MMORPG.com.
We purchased this site a few months back from the previous owners and honestly it was not represented to us very accurately. There was no mention that it was anything other than a "mmo community forum that was centered around an old EQ guild." Had I known what I know now - I never would have purchased it. Our intentions were just to get the page views in our network so that we could include rerolled.org in our banner ad campaigns.
Note however that we have zero intentions of changing the site, the NSFW areas or the moderation rules. This site will not be related to MMORPG.com in any way other than it is owned by the same company.
However, if the community flees to another domain/site then we will probably attempt to salvage the site by making it something else. Again, this would only be if traffic falls to near nothing.
I heard mention from some in here that they would have purchased the site had they known it was for sale. We would probably sell the site now at a loss if anyone is interested in that.
Thank you,
And the first non-troll response to Craig was this:
He knew full well this community would not stand for having it being sold to someone else with no warning and no input.
This community is older than MMORPG.com, with a more storied history.
We may be few, but we are die hard and we will not be bought and sold for your profits.
You will do nothing but lose money on this and here's the thing I want to make especially clear for you and your lawyers
Draegan had every reason to know this was the case before he sold it.
We then suggested, had it been cost effective, that he look in to legal recourse for fraud, and we would have supported him going after Draegan. but since legal actions wouldn't be cost effective, we suggested that he take this loss as lesson on performing proper due diligence before making wanton purchases in the future, we wished him well and we abandoned the site.
The reason we did not assume that it would be cost effective is the sites value. The alexa rankings for our forums put the website at a value of approx 3k. We assumed that Draegan was just tired of dealing with the hassle of running it for pocket change in ad revenue and thus sold the site for peanuts, we speculated that he sold us out for approx 1-2k.
With this value in mind, our community extended an olive branch to your owner, offering to purchase the data from the previous forums to help offset his losses.
At this point we received his counter offer of 7k dollars for forum data, and realized just how badly craig was scammed. We looked at his counter offer combined with google analytics on page views (what he was really purchasing) and reverse engineered the price he paid to between 18-22k dollars, which we rounded off at 20k The fact that that number struck a nerve with him and his mod team means it must be very close to home.
See the thing is, while Craig admitted he initially performed no due diligence and had made a huge mistake in purchasing our site, he continued his failing by not doing any research after the purchase. He paid 10x over the value for the page views of a now defunct site without any page views.
In his desperation, he turned into a ransom situation. He had something which he believed was of value, our forums posts, but he knew his market was made up of one, us. It only had value to us, and he hoped to alleviate his financial blunder by shifting a portion of his losses on to us.
The thing is, though, this isn't the first time our community has moved homes, it's not even the 2nd or 3rd time this has happened. This is now the 5th time our community has changed homes: Noows, fohguild, morenetz, rerolled, firesofheaven. We have lost far more in the past and come out the other side. This transition was actually the smoothest one yet.
So here's the thing, and the reason we scoffed at his 7k counter offer:
1) What he was offering to sell back to us is merely the last 4 years out of nearly 20 years of history together as a community.
2) More importantly, most of that history is made up of photoshops of highlighters and tranny pics.
And then we were directed here to your forums, saw the eye-raping ad-cancer that is your layout and banner ads, your mods begging your members to stop using adblock and noscript, threatening to add paywalls, crying about keeping the lights on, etc, and we put it together.
So it turns out, your owner paid 20k dollars for the domain name rerolled.org. We hear he plans on burning it down and then converting it into a completely new site, focused on D&D and other table top gaming (what else to do with a URL rerolled?). So yeah after he dumps a ton of money and time into it to build a completely new site and community he may eventually be able to turn it into eye-aids and get some ad revenue from it. Until that time though, expect more Ads here to pay for all of that.
TLDR: Craig is bad at business, this is evident by the order of magnitude which he overpayed for an instantly-defunct community. He hoped to recoop some of his losses by holding our forum data ransom, expecting us to pay 7k dollars for some posts, mostly tranny pics and internet arguments between aspies and autists.
And that is, at least partially, why you guys are suffering from eye-aids with Ads on your site.
Yes, we have ads. yes, there is some moderation and probably more than a few of us would like. But it is OUR home and if you don't like it, please go away. You know what, I've got a better idea. How about we ask Craig for the specific amount of money he paid for your pool of vitriol and bile and then, instead of starting an optional subscription here, we ask for a huge Donate button where OUR community can donate some money for YOUR website so you can get it back and leave this place. I am pretty sure some of us are more then willing to spend some money on that, contrary to the amazing rerolled community.
I am sorry, I tried to be nice but it seems like nice isn't how some want to be treated so there you go. What goes around and all of that.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You're talking about an owner/business that claimed to be deploying a new site design to MMORPG.com, taking the site down for around 48 hours, only to end up deploying a slightly altered news post feed. It took them 6 months to set up new forum software, only to end up deploying one of the worst forum implementations of any major community site this side of Curse circa. 2009. The journalistic quality here is fanzine level. They have a far stronger, far more resilient domain than Curse ever has had or ever will have, and yet Curse manage to operate a multi-million dollar gaming network built up from an old guild site. More often than not, it very much appears like the team behind MMORPG.com have absolutely no idea what they are doing.
This is a site and a business built entirely on the domain, which is probably worth 5 or 10 times more money alone than they actually make from their entire network.
And you can't have a go at me for "not being part of "YOUR" community"; I've been here for a long, long time