This industry is not a charity. People however want free games . They expect to play a full game with no cost except their electricity and the internet.
Companies need to make money and if gamers are not going to support the games they play you will eventually see these types of slippery slope stuff in every game.
I agree.
I bet the alternative would be "higher amount sub" in order to make their money but many players wouldn't do that (some would, like me) therefore they rely upon the money "trickling" in, in a variety of ways.
Thing is that Zenimax is a private company that doesn't report publicly so all we can really do is speculate about how much money is coming in. And then there is the old "profitable" vs. "more profitable" and "even more profitable" thing and we have no clue other than wild uneducated guesses about where they are in that continuum.
The megaserver also doesn't help us guess since it only takes a few players per zone to make it seem busy.
So are they doing this because they need to do it or just because they want even more profits?
Aren't they a private company with investors? And as an investor don't you want more profit from your investments?
That's who they are making money for.
Well unlike some other people (including some of my friends and neighbors lol) I think there should be upper limits to that "greed is good" kind of thinking. Responsibility to investors has become a tired old excuse that people buy into way too easily to justify all kinds of amoral behavior.
I for one would be a bit more understanding and forgiving about a company doing something they'd rather not do if it's a matter of keeping their heads above water vs. just an exercise in maximizing returns.
I don't believe greed is good. I do believe that maximizing my investments without doing something "immoral" is.
Don't you want to maximize your investments? I don't believe for one minute you come home and put your money in a jar for that "rainy day".
The people who have put their money in Zenimax will of course want greater returns. if they don't get what they want they will put their money elsewhere. You would do the same.
Do I like the whole "gambling lock box thing"? No, but not because I think it's immoral but because I think it's tacky.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Do I like the whole "gambling lock box thing"? No, but not because I think it's immoral but because I think it's tacky.
That's interesting. Why do you find it tacky?
And BTW, I just double checked to make sure. I didn't say "immoral" I said "amoral" as in not concerned with the morality of the issue... there's a difference.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO has had one of the "best" B2P monetization schemes of the major MMO's, but that will slowly start changing now I guess. At some point, the new box sales start tailing off, and then alternative revenue streams have to be opened.
At least they're sticking to "cosmetic" items only in those RNG lockboxes at this point. But if that doesn't make enough money, what will be next ?
Gambling is immoral? Really is that a religious aspect ?
When I was little in 60's there used to be a small grocery store that had papers hidden (stapled on) with a number and I paid like 5 cents to play and I might get a nice doll. No one ever said it was immoral.
Gambling is fun until like everything else you take it too far. Every Chinese New Year when I go to the houses of my Chinese friends we would play Mahjong for real money. It was fun and it helped me get closer to the older Chinese relatives of my friend. In fact her grandmother was the one who taught me to play Mahjong. In case you're wondering how the gambling comes in, there is a betting aspect to Mahjong.
I really do not see anything inherently wrong about gambling only if you keep playing and lose everything. Like everything else in life use your head, discretion and moderation.
As for the DLC may be the amount they are selling on the DLC is not enough profits. Why should a company make the amount of money you think is proper? Subscription fees have not gone up since the early 2000 if I am not mistaken. I think it is possible $15 is no longer even enough for a sub any longer.
Oh I don't see anything wrong with a sporting game of chance between consenting individuals. However that's not what this is. What Zenimax is saying is that if you give them some money to support their game they might, key word there, might, give you something cool in return. That makes about as much sense as saying that if you pay a subscription they might let you log in and play but there is also the chance they won't.
Yeah, and I hate the way their goons break into your house and force you to buy their gambling boxes.
Oh wait....
Well, it does suck how everyone who gets gambling box gear has all of the coolest friends and look the best during parties and weddings....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This industry is not a charity. People however want free games . They expect to play a full game with no cost except their electricity and the internet.
Companies need to make money and if gamers are not going to support the games they play you will eventually see these types of slippery slope stuff in every game.
I can see that from f2p, but not even b2p man. They have dlc every quarter, yet they NEED more money right?
I don't think they NEED more money. It's just they know they can GET more by doing this. Like @Kitarad said, the industry is not a charity. They are in it to make money. This is just another means to that end.
ESO has had one of the "best" B2P monetization schemes of the major MMO's, but that will slowly start changing now I guess. At some point, the new box sales start tailing off, and then alternative revenue streams have to be opened.
At least they're sticking to "cosmetic" items only in those RNG lockboxes at this point. But if that doesn't make enough money, what will be next ?
You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict where this slippery slope is going.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Shouldn't we just trust Zenimax? I mean they are professionals and do this for a living so they must know best. Besides, Zenimax has proven trustworthy in every thing else they have done.
Sz
Didn't we already establish that the self-professed armchair experts on these forums know better?
Do I like the whole "gambling lock box thing"? No, but not because I think it's immoral but because I think it's tacky.
That's interesting. Why do you find it tacky?
And BTW, I just double checked to make sure. I didn't say "immoral" I said "amoral" as in not concerned with the morality of the issue... there's a difference.
It's more in the presentation "buy now and WIN!". They have this for Aion, and logging in or going to their site it always feels less like a game about an immersive world and more about advertisements for their "lucky shugo boxes" or however they market them.
It becomes less about the game and more about putting the coin in the slot.
Not to say that one can't enjoy "tacky". I would love to go to Las Vegas and I think it would be fun but it's also "tacky".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
A business's main goal is to generate profit. They should always maximize profit while maintaining a healthy relationship with the customers. What matters is that introducing these new ways to make money does not upset the majority of its customers, and I very much doubt paying for cosmetics will be much of an issue, especially considering how it's quickly becoming a standard in games.
A business's main goal is to generate profit. They should always maximize profit while maintaining a healthy relationship with the customers. What matters is that introducing these new ways to make money does not upset the majority of its customers, and I very much doubt paying for cosmetics will be much of an issue, especially considering how it's quickly becoming a standard in MMO's.
There's a big difference between buying what you want and buying a chance at what you want though. Its not like these rng boxes will discredit the things you already got from them. I'm sure this would be a non-existent issue if the stuff in them could all just be bought directly versus this gamble.
A business's main goal is to generate profit. They should always maximize profit while maintaining a healthy relationship with the customers. What matters is that introducing these new ways to make money does not upset the majority of its customers, and I very much doubt paying for cosmetics will be much of an issue, especially considering how it's quickly becoming a standard in MMO's.
Case and point: BDO
The world didn't end, people went back to their regularly scheduled gameplay, and a handful of butt-hurt children ran off to get their diapers changed.
There's a big difference between buying what you want and buying a chance at what you want though. Its not like these rng boxes will discredit the things you already got from them. I'm sure this would be a non-existent issue if the stuff in them could all just be bought directly versus this gamble.
Doesn't change the fact that its cosmetics. I play CS:GO and they have boxes where you can buy a key to open said boxes and get a random gun skin. It doesn't affect gameplay, just makes your gun look "cool", and the vast majority of players do not mind this sort of practice. I don't see how this is such a big deal.
There's a big difference between buying what you want and buying a chance at what you want though. Its not like these rng boxes will discredit the things you already got from them. I'm sure this would be a non-existent issue if the stuff in them could all just be bought directly versus this gamble.
Doesn't change the fact that its cosmetics. I play CS:GO and they have boxes where you can buy a key to open said boxes and get a random gun skin. It doesn't affect gameplay, just makes your gun look "cool", and the vast majority of players do not mind this sort of practice. I don't see how this is such a big deal.
You're also leaving out the fact that some people sell those skins for money, which can't be done via this method. RNG boxes exist because not everyone buys every type of cosmetic, so as a result devs have to control sells by lumping those not so appealing cosmetics with ones that people want, obviously with the unwanted one's % tweeked higher than others. Every game that has these boxes follows the same set of rules. If they wanted it "fair" in that regard, they'd just sell everything in the box separately and off no exclusives, but they make more money doing it this way.
You're also leaving out the fact that some people sell those skins for money, which can't be done via this method. RNG boxes exist because not everyone buys every type of cosmetic, so as a result devs have to control sells by lumping those not so appealing cosmetics with ones that people want, obviously with the unwanted one's % tweeked higher than others. Every game that has these boxes follows the same set of rules. If they wanted it "fair" in that regard, they'd just sell everything in the box separately and off no exclusives, but they make more money doing it this way.
The Community Market is a fabulous feature, and I'm sure more games will soon have something similar.
According to a post on reddit regarding the boxes, the items that can come out of them have been already in the Crown Store or available through other means (Collector's Edition). Again though, even if they do introduce exclusive costumes to the boxes I simply fail to see how this is such a big deal for some people. I mean, we're talking about skins here...
I love how people are hounding ESO for being cash grab sellouts when it's just fluff cosmetic items. Yet most of these fools will sit there and defend that heinous P2W crap going on over at BDO.
I don't think anyone here is attacking ESO and extolling black desert. However, I agree that ESO has a far more innocuous cash cash shop. So much so that I've barely ever purchased anything from it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
A business's main goal is to generate profit. They should always maximize profit while maintaining a healthy relationship with the customers. What matters is that introducing these new ways to make money does not upset the majority of its customers, and I very much doubt paying for cosmetics will be much of an issue, especially considering how it's quickly becoming a standard in MMO's.
Case and point: BDO
The world didn't end, people went back to their regularly scheduled gameplay, and a handful of butt-hurt children ran off to get their diapers changed.
Is that why every content creator for BDO just abandoned ship? How well will that go over with bringing in new players? Yea BDO messed up bigtime because they introduced P2W features into a B2P game and betrayed their original statement of not doing this exact same thing.
As for ESO's cosmetics, it doesn't bother me. Just keep them skins and make them purchasable straight ($5-10) or with the chance from loot boxes ($2.50). I'm ok with that kind of system.
R.Lima said: Again though, even if they do introduce exclusive costumes to the boxes I simply fail to see how this is such a big deal for some people.
Apparently it is a big deal since there are people who feel entitled enough to dictate what company should sell or not and how much they should charge for it...
That is of course only if cash shop contains items they have no interest in, if there is something they want, it must come for "free". God forbid they actually ask money for something they have desire for...
How dare this company try to make money. They should continue to put out 20 dollar DLS expansions, keep paying full time employees, keep improving the game, and do it for free. They aught to be ashamed of themselves trying to create more interesting ways of making income, without forcing it upon their "customers".
Comments
Don't you want to maximize your investments? I don't believe for one minute you come home and put your money in a jar for that "rainy day".
The people who have put their money in Zenimax will of course want greater returns. if they don't get what they want they will put their money elsewhere. You would do the same.
Do I like the whole "gambling lock box thing"? No, but not because I think it's immoral but because I think it's tacky.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
And BTW, I just double checked to make sure. I didn't say "immoral" I said "amoral" as in not concerned with the morality of the issue... there's a difference.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
ESO has had one of the "best" B2P monetization schemes of the major MMO's, but that will slowly start changing now I guess. At some point, the new box sales start tailing off, and then alternative revenue streams have to be opened.
At least they're sticking to "cosmetic" items only in those RNG lockboxes at this point. But if that doesn't make enough money, what will be next ?
Oh wait....
Well, it does suck how everyone who gets gambling box gear has all of the coolest friends and look the best during parties and weddings....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Didn't we already establish that the self-professed armchair experts on these forums know better?
~~ postlarval ~~
It becomes less about the game and more about putting the coin in the slot.
Not to say that one can't enjoy "tacky". I would love to go to Las Vegas and I think it would be fun but it's also "tacky".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
~~ postlarval ~~
The world didn't end, people went back to their regularly scheduled gameplay, and a handful of butt-hurt children ran off to get their diapers changed.
~~ postlarval ~~
"C'mon stat items next. C'moonn big money!
Poppa needs new shield! Poppa needs new sword!"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/According to a post on reddit regarding the boxes, the items that can come out of them have been already in the Crown Store or available through other means (Collector's Edition). Again though, even if they do introduce exclusive costumes to the boxes I simply fail to see how this is such a big deal for some people. I mean, we're talking about skins here...
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
As for ESO's cosmetics, it doesn't bother me. Just keep them skins and make them purchasable straight ($5-10) or with the chance from loot boxes ($2.50). I'm ok with that kind of system.
That is of course only if cash shop contains items they have no interest in, if there is something they want, it must come for "free". God forbid they actually ask money for something they have desire for...
How dense and docile does one have to be to not understand why that might just be a slippery slope and why it raises brows?
If you're a welcome mat in life that's fine, don't try to insult others who have some consumer integrity.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯