Gambling boxes should be illegal in games here in the US. It is no different than gambling online. This obviously will never happen, because the Casino's could give a rats ass what video games are doing with 'RNG boxes'. I would love to see what happens when video games start adding 'casino's' to their world. Some black jack, slots, roulette, all in the gaming world. Bet the Casino's would Lobby and shit would be illegal all around.
As for the topic... RNG boxes are shady. Shady business practices and zero respect for its player base. If you cant see that past your ESO fanaticism, then you really are lost.
Gambling boxes should be illegal in games here in the US. It is no different than gambling online. This obviously will never happen, because the Casino's could give a rats ass what video games are doing with 'RNG boxes'. I would love to see what happens when video games start adding 'casino's' to their world. Some black jack, slots, roulette, all in the gaming world. Bet the Casino's would Lobby and shit would be illegal all around.
As for the topic... RNG boxes are shady. Shady business practices and zero respect for its player base. If you cant see that past your ESO fanaticism, then you really are lost.
Wait are we winning cash. If not then it is legal or else church raffles, radio promotions, and other things would be illegal
How dare this company try to make money. They should continue to put out 20 dollar DLS expansions, keep paying full time employees, keep improving the game, and do it for free. They aught to be ashamed of themselves trying to create more interesting ways of making income, without forcing it upon their "customers".
How can you say "for free" right after saying "$20 DLCs"?
How many DLCs have they sold? We have no idea but with 7M+ sales:
a) they could easily be selling 1M+ DLCs a quarter which would be $20M+. A quarter. Even 500k would be $10M. More than enough to keep the lights on. (There are costs involved even for online sales and there will be taxes to allow for so broad brush numbers.)
or b) they have sold no DLC and all the people playing are subscribers. An average of 500k subscribers though is over $20M a quarter.
We don't know the numbers. However if Zenimax are doing this because they "need" the money we had better start talking about ESO being on its last legs.
The alternative is that they are doing this to try and make more money. Maybe hoping that subscribers will buy the boxes and not save their crowns to buy DLC. The hope being that they will subscribe and buy the DLC.
The danger however is that the addition of RNGs will suggest (to some) that ESO is pushing the cash shop more or even going down the p2w path. They might have no plans to do so but - as pointed out above - at first it was just a horse.
Gambling is immoral? Really is that a religious aspect ?
When I was little in 60's there used to be a small grocery store that had papers hidden (stapled on) with a number and I paid like 5 cents to play and I might get a nice doll. No one ever said it was immoral.
Gambling is fun until like everything else you take it too far. Every Chinese New Year when I go to the houses of my Chinese friends we would play Mahjong for real money. It was fun and it helped me get closer to the older Chinese relatives of my friend. In fact her grandmother was the one who taught me to play Mahjong. In case you're wondering how the gambling comes in, there is a betting aspect to Mahjong.
I really do not see anything inherently wrong about gambling only if you keep playing and lose everything. Like everything else in life use your head, discretion and moderation.
As for the DLC may be the amount they are selling on the DLC is not enough profits. Why should a company make the amount of money you think is proper? Subscription fees have not gone up since the early 2000 if I am not mistaken. I think it is possible $15 is no longer even enough for a sub any longer.
Oh I don't see anything wrong with a sporting game of chance between consenting individuals. However that's not what this is. What Zenimax is saying is that if you give them some money to support their game they might, key word there, might, give you something cool in return. That makes about as much sense as saying that if you pay a subscription they might let you log in and play but there is also the chance they won't.
Yeah, and I hate the way their goons break into your house and force you to buy their gambling boxes.
Oh wait....
Well, it does suck how everyone who gets gambling box gear has all of the coolest friends and look the best during parties and weddings....
Of course no one is forced to by this content and what another individual does with their own money is none of my business, same exact way I feel about crowd funding. However how this feature can potentially negatively effect the rest of a game I've payed for and play goddamned is my business. In other games that have gone this route actual in game content has suffered. And considering the last few expensive yet content light DLCs Zenimax has produced it looks like they are going to do the exact same thing. So I refuse to continue to support a game company that doesn't focus on adding actual playable content. That's my choice, in my life, and I don't demand anyone else should do what I do or feel what I feel.
Also since this content is accessed by swiping a credit card and keeping ones fingers crossed it in no way actively encourages players to participate in any game world functions. So as you say you just end up with a bunch of image obsessed people loitering around the game world showing off their pointless bling. Wow. What fun.
Oh my. something negative could happen? We suppose to crap our pants over that? Perhaps curl up in a ball in a corner to cry while sucking our thumbs? So what.
If there wasn't a market for it they wouldn't spend resources doing it.
I think people are just playing whatever card because they are too cheap.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
In the history of gaming, no MMO has ever been made better by adding lockbox gambling, although many have been made worse.
Yeah it's always better than they shut down and wait for the sad players to write moanful posts about how great the game once was.
I could careless about these boxes, what is killing ESO is the bugs/lag. I would rather see them stop adding dlc and more bugs. They need to make a major push to try and find these bugs that been around from beta. I understand how hard it is with millions lines of code. But we will be at 3 year mark soon and they keep ignoring anything to do with bugs. But am willing to bet if they fix most of the lag issues people would come back in troves. The game has a lot of great designs and game play. If they got rid of a lot of the bugs and fixed lag, we wouldn't even be talking about these boxes.
Game has great potential, the people that run it seem to have no clue. If they can't fix the lag because of their engine then they may need to come out and tell us that. Then find a way to fix it (which would be a major design undertaking) gamers at least could understand the problem.
Either way I do think the game isn't going to be around much longer! Players just won't put up with it much longer no matter how much potential the game has.
Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.
Yeah it's always better than they shut down and wait for the sad players to write moanful posts about how great the game once was.
I think we could all do without another repeat of the emo-esque moaning like the SWG crowd did. You would have thought someone murdered their families. It was pathetic.
If there was ever a perfect example that embodied every negative stereotype of gamers, the SWG crowd was it.
So is it just cosmetics? Perhaps an outfit, pet or mount? For what 400 crowns? So if that is it it seems people are more upset about what the game could turn into rather than what it is.
The reality is rarely equal to people's imaginations and fears.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In the history of gaming, no MMO has ever been made better by adding lockbox gambling, although many have been made worse.
We could go back to paying $8.00 per hour to play games online. Would you like that?
How about going back to the decade worth of time where we paid box, subscription, and expansions? Where every MMORPG somehow managed without a cash shop.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Frankly, I don't see this as being as big an issue as some may make. I equate it to those crane machines you see in stores and bars/restaurants. Some people enjoy pumping quarters/dollars into the machine for a chance to win a crappy stuffed animal.
People are so paranoid. It's a cosmetic gambling box. If you don't want them, don't buy them, and if you're easily jealous of other people, and can't afford to gamble, maybe you can play with your eyes closed.
To me its like RNG loot drops. There is certain things I don't mind as being RNG and other things if I'm paying for it then that is what I want. It really depends on how they do this if it becomes good or bad.
Again. I know some of you folks log on to show how much a big time hoss you are and how much you don't care bout nothin or nobody, or how much gamble money you got and all the haters are just jealous but the fact still remains;
It's the RNG.
Why not just charge a price that effects the bottom line how they want, rather than pissing on peoples heads and calling it rain. It's out of the blue. It sets a very bad precedent. It's not paranoia for people who have ANY kind of pattern based foresight into the MMORPG genre. If you need an explaination please msg me, so I can use the necessary colorful language to drive the point home.
If this was Archeage, or Black Desert Online, or some other Korean slot machine business model game fine. That isn't the case now is it?
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Rather than letting people buy the cosmetics, zenimax are gambling on people gambling and spending more than they otherwise would to get what they want. They are introducing rng to purchases, It sets an awful precedent. Aggravating people who spend money in the crown store on cosmetics with rng is shortsighted.
Frankly, I don't see this as being as big an issue as some may make. I equate it to those crane machines you see in stores and bars/restaurants. Some people enjoy pumping quarters/dollars into the machine for a chance to win a crappy stuffed animal.
The reason some of us don't like the idea is due to seeing how this kind of feature affected other games. STO, Neverwinter, SW TOR, Archeage, TERA, LOTRO, RIFT, sort of, etc, where the game development shifted focus to create mainly this kind of content, leaving things being accomplished with actual game play in the minority. Personally I play games to PLAY GAMES. Not sit around with my credit card in one hand and a phone in the other like I'm watching the Home Shopping Network.
So really people are worried that the little crane fishing machine analogy of yours will seep into, and overpower, every other part of the restaurant experience. Want romantic candle light and violinists during your meal? Well here ya go just sink a few coins into our little grab ass machine and see if you're lucky enough to catch a token to pay for those enhancements. Want a lobster tail to go with that fine steak, here pump in a few more coins and try to catch one, even though you thought you already paid for it with the rest of the meal. Fine wine, you know the drill, oh I'm so sorry that after spending enough money to just flat out buy a bottle while trying to grab that bottle Krug Grand Cuvee that you only ended up with two bottles of Sprite and a Vimto. Better luck next time my boy.
See my point?
I understand where you are coming from. I've played all the games you mention as well as some others that have major RNG loot boxes (Champions Online and TSW also come to mind). Some implementations are very annoying and in your face (like NW or CO) and some are more discrete and just available as an option for those that enjoy that kind of thing (ala TSW).
However, for ESO, I wouldn't expect development to shift to accommodate this. Using my same analogy, they just have an open corner where the crane machine will fit so why not? Of course, if they did make it a constant focus, I'd hate it.
And, by the way, I have actually been to a restaurant in South Florida that had a live Lobster Crane machine that you could try and catch one and they would prepare with your meal
Again. If this idea was so "innocent" why not just sell all of the stuff individually instead of lumping everything into a box?
I dont have anything against cosmetics in this game what so ever, since GW2 was doing it long before them (even though you could make cash shop currency via in game currency so it might've been a little more fair in that regard). Its just pushing the line quite a bit when you put exclusive in a box and sell people a chance to get it. RNG boxes regardless of what is inside of them is just pure publisher/developer greed.
If you're gonna go this route, at least allow people a hard way to make crowns in game. Smite has these boxes as well, but at least they give you free cs currency every week that you log in.
Comments
As for the topic... RNG boxes are shady. Shady business practices and zero respect for its player base. If you cant see that past your ESO fanaticism, then you really are lost.
How many DLCs have they sold? We have no idea but with 7M+ sales:
a) they could easily be selling 1M+ DLCs a quarter which would be $20M+. A quarter. Even 500k would be $10M. More than enough to keep the lights on. (There are costs involved even for online sales and there will be taxes to allow for so broad brush numbers.)
or b) they have sold no DLC and all the people playing are subscribers. An average of 500k subscribers though is over $20M a quarter.
We don't know the numbers. However if Zenimax are doing this because they "need" the money we had better start talking about ESO being on its last legs.
The alternative is that they are doing this to try and make more money. Maybe hoping that subscribers will buy the boxes and not save their crowns to buy DLC. The hope being that they will subscribe and buy the DLC.
The danger however is that the addition of RNGs will suggest (to some) that ESO is pushing the cash shop more or even going down the p2w path. They might have no plans to do so but - as pointed out above - at first it was just a horse.
Oh my. something negative could happen? We suppose to crap our pants over that? Perhaps curl up in a ball in a corner to cry while sucking our thumbs? So what.
If there wasn't a market for it they wouldn't spend resources doing it.
I think people are just playing whatever card because they are too cheap.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
We could go back to paying $8.00 per hour to play games online. Would you like that?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Game has great potential, the people that run it seem to have no clue. If they can't fix the lag because of their engine then they may need to come out and tell us that. Then find a way to fix it (which would be a major design undertaking) gamers at least could understand the problem.
Either way I do think the game isn't going to be around much longer! Players just won't put up with it much longer no matter how much potential the game has.
Rob Manuel
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Don't forget to pull your hand out of your ass after retrieving your "data".
~~ postlarval ~~
If there was ever a perfect example that embodied every negative stereotype of gamers, the SWG crowd was it.
~~ postlarval ~~
You stay sassy!
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/It's the RNG.
Why not just charge a price that effects the bottom line how they want, rather than pissing on peoples heads and calling it rain. It's out of the blue. It sets a very bad precedent. It's not paranoia for people who have ANY kind of pattern based foresight into the MMORPG genre. If you need an explaination please msg me, so I can use the necessary colorful language to drive the point home.
If this was Archeage, or Black Desert Online, or some other Korean slot machine business model game fine. That isn't the case now is it?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
However, for ESO, I wouldn't expect development to shift to accommodate this. Using my same analogy, they just have an open corner where the crane machine will fit so why not?
And, by the way, I have actually been to a restaurant in South Florida that had a live Lobster Crane machine that you could try and catch one and they would prepare with your meal
I dont have anything against cosmetics in this game what so ever, since GW2 was doing it long before them (even though you could make cash shop currency via in game currency so it might've been a little more fair in that regard). Its just pushing the line quite a bit when you put exclusive in a box and sell people a chance to get it. RNG boxes regardless of what is inside of them is just pure publisher/developer greed.
If you're gonna go this route, at least allow people a hard way to make crowns in game. Smite has these boxes as well, but at least they give you free cs currency every week that you log in.