The way they are executing is very well done. Nothing from a Crown Crate can be sold or traded for gold and can't impact the economy or provide players any advantage by spending real world cash.
Never gonna stop the 'P2W' crowd. It's almost a Pavlovian response. ESO is gonna add new trees..... 'P2W!!!!, oh, ooops'
Hyperbole changes neither facts, nor track records.
See @Iselin post above: They said they wanted everything to be experienced by playing the game......That changed See @yonpachi post above: They said they had no plans to add RNG boxes......That changed
The historical fact that this is a pattern among MMORPGs both within this game and within the entire genre itself give credibility to assume P2W is inevitable. Or at least, it's not a foolish concern. So how can you confidently explain how ESO isn't going down that path? And if you cannot, why did you try to "shame" those who have expressed concern for this eventuality?
At this point we are just talking about how slippery the slope is.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
A lot of this stuff comes down to what people think they should be getting for their money. Before games were really all that main stream (more so than today), people were used to buying things and getting everything with the game. So that would be costumes unlockable through playing the game, extra modes, etc. Now every single game has dlc. My stance on dlc (cash shop items included) is that if its day one dlc, that to me shows it was just cut from the game to make extra profit since it could've automatically been added to the game. Skins and such are a little harder to weigh since the art team honestly finishes their stuff way ahead of the other parts of the team, so if they have completed what the dev lead wanted them to, then making extra can kinda go either way as long as it doesn't influence the gameplay or hinders the development time in some way.
Its really hard to find the line, since many of us who have played before dlc became a "thing" are kind of used to how companies used to do things when it kind of could've been making them lose money by doing so. In essence, they are paying people to keep working on stuff when the main things are already finished, keeping them employed longer and trying to add value to the product to make it seem more worthwhile for the consumer. So maybe people need to think a little harder when it comes to buying purely cosmetic things. At the same time, there are companies that just simply want to gouge people. I'll admit there are far worse lock box scams in games worse than what ESO is trying to do since they dont even give you the option to save up stuff if you get duplicated to actually get the things you wanted over a period of time. I feel as long as they are giving spenders the option to eventually buy the >>> cosmetics <<< they really want then people shouldn't complain as much since providing a game with cosmetics gives people jobs which is hard to find decent ones in the current market.
Glad this was mentioned today i played on xbox one for awhile and didn't think it was to bad. Just went back to pc gaming and Zenimax just slammed the door when i was about to walk in..
Awesome thanks for the save... F2P may have been the way for quite sometime now but consumers are getting really sick of all the scams that come along with it. Maybe the west will bounce back to subs without in game stores or hopefully the mmo genre dies because as of right now mmos are shit with this pay method.
Obvious idiots keep buying shit because new games are choosing this model over subs now because IT MAKES THEM MORE MONEY. If the dumb asses would quit supporting this bullshit maybe it would go away like a bad dream.
Players bitch about subs at $15 a month then go spend $50 a month in the store. So go buy the base game, all 3 expansions they like to call them , and then go spend $50 in the store but wait there's more don't forget your sub on top of that so you get your crafting bag and dyes. Wow we got some real idiot gamers this day and age.
A lot of this stuff comes down to what people think they should be getting for their money. Before games were really all that main stream (more so than today), people were used to buying things and getting everything with the game. So that would be costumes unlockable through playing the game, extra modes, etc. Now every single game has dlc. My stance on dlc (cash shop items included) is that if its day one dlc, that to me shows it was just cut from the game to make extra profit since it could've automatically been added to the game. Skins and such are a little harder to weigh since the art team honestly finishes their stuff way ahead of the other parts of the team, so if they have completed what the dev lead wanted them to, then making extra can kinda go either way as long as it doesn't influence the gameplay or hinders the development time in some way.
Its really hard to find the line, since many of us who have played before dlc became a "thing" are kind of used to how companies used to do things when it kind of could've been making them lose money by doing so. In essence, they are paying people to keep working on stuff when the main things are already finished, keeping them employed longer and trying to add value to the product to make it seem more worthwhile for the consumer. So maybe people need to think a little harder when it comes to buying purely cosmetic things. At the same time, there are companies that just simply want to gouge people. I'll admit there are far worse lock box scams in games worse than what ESO is trying to do since they dont even give you the option to save up stuff if you get duplicated to actually get the things you wanted over a period of time. I feel as long as they are giving spenders the option to eventually buy the >>> cosmetics <<< they really want then people shouldn't complain as much since providing a game with cosmetics gives people jobs which is hard to find decent ones in the current market.
Can you give me examples of the current games that you would consider worth a subscription and lets see how they stack up.
There aren't any because gamers decided that spending money on a in game store was cheaper than paying a sub. So now you have games that are garbage EVERYWHERE! Developers make a game now add a store then just sit back and watch the money fly in. That's why content or dlc from f2p games sucks and is so small. They have no obligation to keep players subbing because players aren't paying for the game they are paying for cosmetics. So now you have this generation of mmo's that are shit and then players complain after all the hype fades and the game sucks ass.
I think the answer is simpler than that. Players are just too cheap to pay so every game has become in their minds too expensive for a sub. You reap what you sow my dear.
I think the answer is simpler than that. Players are just too cheap to pay so every game has become in their minds too expensive for a sub. You reap what you sow my dear.
Oh I pay, I've loyally paid a sub since launch. Now they've chosen to move in a direction I find distasteful. They're free to do so and I'm free to spend my money elsewhere. I've also paid for the right to bitch about it.
I agree with @Torval. I also think that the subscription model is a great one and I would gladly go back to that time but it has obviously marched on and the current payment schemes don't bother me as long as they are not bombarding me with stuff that fill my inventory forcing me to purchase space and so on. I will pay in whatever way it suits me but I expect to pay.
I want to pay for the pleasure of making the Cash Shop button non-functional.
You can't afford it. The single revenue stream demographic won't show the industry the money. We'll see how these "promise the world" indie games deliver on that. I think it's not going to end up well.
You don't have to exclude the other revenue streams. Just exclude them from the subbing customers
I want to pay for the pleasure of making the Cash Shop button non-functional.
You can't afford it. The single revenue stream demographic won't show the industry the money. We'll see how these "promise the world" indie games deliver on that. I think it's not going to end up well.
You don't have to exclude the other revenue streams. Just exclude them from the subbing customers
If you sub to this game you don't need to pay anything else past the initial box fee. It's even less aggressive than WoW in that regard because if you sub you don't need to buy the xpac to play.
That's very true so far but nothing prevents them from releasing a xpac at some point that goes beyond the scope of DLCs. I've been sort of waiting for that announcement for a while actually.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I want to pay for the pleasure of making the Cash Shop button non-functional.
You can't afford it. The single revenue stream demographic won't show the industry the money. We'll see how these "promise the world" indie games deliver on that. I think it's not going to end up well.
You don't have to exclude the other revenue streams. Just exclude them from the subbing customers
If you sub to this game you don't need to pay anything else past the initial box fee. It's even less aggressive than WoW in that regard because if you sub you don't need to buy the xpac to play.
That's very true so far but nothing prevents them from releasing a xpac at some point that goes beyond the scope of DLCs. I've been sort of waiting for that announcement for a while actually.
What do you mean by goes beyond the scope of DLCs? Do you mean the subscription won't cover it?
Yeah. Something sold as an expansion with a couple of new classes, several new zones, etc. Expansions in most other MMOs have a bit more to them than ESO's DLCs.
When they first announced the B2P + DLC system I never thought that this meant that there will never be expansions.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I must admit I'm surprised that it has become the norm for new games starting out to have tier levels of one, five, and ten thousand dollars. Even more surprised people buy them. This must be the new norm for spending money on games still in development and not even knowing what the game will play like at launch.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I think you could just call an ESO expansion "One Big DLC"
Yeah I guess you're right. Having gone down the paid DLC route, it'd be hard to differentiate. Especially since they've already gone down the road of different DLC for different prices. Currently:
Orsinium for 3000 crowns IC for 2500 (currently on sale for 1250) Thieves Guild for 2000 DB for 2000 Shadow of the Hist for 1500
(and those first 4 are going on sale as a bundle in just a few days for 5500)
An "xpac" would probably be just a 5000 crown DLC.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think this will be good for people who are subscribers or if someone has some left over crowns. 400 crowns is not that much. I will be able to use the crowns given to me through the sub to get the boxes with a chance of getting something worth more than 400. I could also not get the boxes and get what I want at the asked price. They said it will include consumables already in the store, so pots and scrolls. At 400 crowns, you get consumables plus something random possible worth more than 400 crowns, its a pretty good deal. As of right now, no items will be exclusive to the boxes with the exception on limited released items that are no longer able to be purchased from the store. The boxes offer no gameplay advantage and the RNG goes down if you have been collecting items. So are the boxes aimed at people collecting the crown items? Maybe the collectors want a way to either get something new or something no longer sold? How is this a bad thing?
I think you could just call an ESO expansion "One Big DLC"
Yeah I guess you're right. Having gone down the paid DLC route, it'd be hard to differentiate. Especially since they've already gone down the road of different DLC for different prices. Currently:
Orsinium for 3000 crowns IC for 2500 (currently on sale for 1250) Thieves Guild for 2000 DB for 2000 Shadow of the Hist for 1500
(and those first 4 are going on sale as a bundle in just a few days for 5500)
An "xpac" would probably be just a 5000 crown DLC.
I think with the DLC model they've espoused they'd be opening themselves up for a lot of negative criticism with a must purchase Expansion for subscribers.
Mind you with their decision bringing in RNG loot boxes, I don't believe they would shy away from it.
Meanwhile in the ESO Forum the post about RNG boxes is hitting page 100 with no sign of slowing down and never leaving the first page... With about 70% of players stating they don't want this and another 10% have said they would change their vote now that they know really rare and unique cosmetics will be locked behind a virtually unlimited paywall.
Comments
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Its really hard to find the line, since many of us who have played before dlc became a "thing" are kind of used to how companies used to do things when it kind of could've been making them lose money by doing so. In essence, they are paying people to keep working on stuff when the main things are already finished, keeping them employed longer and trying to add value to the product to make it seem more worthwhile for the consumer. So maybe people need to think a little harder when it comes to buying purely cosmetic things. At the same time, there are companies that just simply want to gouge people. I'll admit there are far worse lock box scams in games worse than what ESO is trying to do since they dont even give you the option to save up stuff if you get duplicated to actually get the things you wanted over a period of time. I feel as long as they are giving spenders the option to eventually buy the >>> cosmetics <<< they really want then people shouldn't complain as much since providing a game with cosmetics gives people jobs which is hard to find decent ones in the current market.
Awesome thanks for the save... F2P may have been the way for quite sometime now but consumers are getting really sick of all the scams that come along with it. Maybe the west will bounce back to subs without in game stores or hopefully the mmo genre dies because as of right now mmos are shit with this pay method.
Obvious idiots keep buying shit because new games are choosing this model over subs now because IT MAKES THEM MORE MONEY. If the dumb asses would quit supporting this bullshit maybe it would go away like a bad dream.
Players bitch about subs at $15 a month then go spend $50 a month in the store. So go buy the base game, all 3 expansions they like to call them , and then go spend $50 in the store but wait there's more don't forget your sub on top of that so you get your crafting bag and dyes. Wow we got some real idiot gamers this day and age.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
When they first announced the B2P + DLC system I never thought that this meant that there will never be expansions.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Orsinium for 3000 crowns
IC for 2500 (currently on sale for 1250)
Thieves Guild for 2000
DB for 2000
Shadow of the Hist for 1500
(and those first 4 are going on sale as a bundle in just a few days for 5500)
An "xpac" would probably be just a 5000 crown DLC.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Mind you with their decision bringing in RNG loot boxes, I don't believe they would shy away from it.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee