Like many others have already said. When crafting is just a click->wait->collect function that can mass produce items in order to level up your crafting skill, it gets really boring, really fast.
I'd love to see more engagement in crafting mechaincs. The best example I've seen of this in a game is in Dark Messiah. It wasn't really a "crafting skill" as much as it was a one-off event in the game.
The way it worked was, you had to go and pick up some ingots and drop them in a smelting bucket. Then go pull a lever to move the bucket into the forge. Then you had to work the bellows until it was sufficiently melted, after which you had to quickly pull the lever again to get the bucket out, and tip it into a casting mold. Then, you had to pick up the cast blade and hammer it into shape while it was hot. If it cooled down too much, you'd have to stick it into the furnace again for a while. When done, you had to cool it off in some nearby water, fit it with a crossguard and handle and then you'd be done.
All this had to be done within the game world, and not through menus. It was awesome.
A crafting system drawing inspiration from this (perhaps not necessarily as intricate) would be awesome I think. Especially if paired with fitting skill challenges or minigames, that affect the quality of the end product, making it possible to be a better crafter depending on how much effort you put into it.
I would say skip most of the bad items after a short period of time.
Randomization and specialization on what players make by player choice. Meaning you research and improve your players crafting skills over time to something unique. Maybe your gear has fire resistance because you specialize in it or maybe you just want to make the best helmets possible. Have different swappable recources have different properties like using gold is resistant to magic but if you use steel it's damage resistant. Have gameplay that requires specialized gear.
A DEEP system that encompasses a DEEP game design. If your game has no depth ,then your crafting will NEVER be any good no matter how hard you try. It is as simple as that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
A DEEP system that encompasses a DEEP game design. If your game has no depth ,then your crafting will NEVER be any good no matter how hard you try. It is as simple as that.
Define depth
Is depth a time requirement, as many here define it?
Is depth defined by difficult decisions, as I define it?
Is depth defined by integration into the game's overall content design?
Do you have another definition of depth that doesn't mesh into any of the above?
To add to my previous post! I'd love to see more player customization available.
It's all well and good that I can craft myself a sword, but why shouldn't I be able to choose what the sword looks like? instead of just creating identical copies to every other sword. It would be cool to be able to create a unique look for your crafted items. Perhaps from a list of presets (blade, handle, crossguard, pommel, length, etc.) or with complete freedom through advanced voxel tech.
Although the latter is probably a pipedream reserved for when everyone has the equivalent of supercomputers in their homes by today's standards.
To add to my previous post! I'd love to see more player customization available.
It's all well and good that I can craft myself a sword, but why shouldn't I be able to choose what the sword looks like? instead of just creating identical copies to every other sword. It would be cool to be able to create a unique look for your crafted items. Perhaps from a list of presets (blade, handle, crossguard, pommel, length, etc.) or with complete freedom through advanced voxel tech.
Although the latter is probably a pipedream reserved for when everyone has the equivalent of supercomputers in their homes by today's standards.
I have aways thought crafting stats should be more based on materials and style/look be player choice. Maybe some styles having a bonus.
Like many others have already said. When crafting is just a click->wait->collect function that can mass produce items in order to level up your crafting skill, it gets really boring, really fast.
I'd love to see more engagement in crafting mechaincs. The best example I've seen of this in a game is in Dark Messiah. It wasn't really a "crafting skill" as much as it was a one-off event in the game.
The way it worked was, you had to go and pick up some ingots and drop them in a smelting bucket. Then go pull a lever to move the bucket into the forge. Then you had to work the bellows until it was sufficiently melted, after which you had to quickly pull the lever again to get the bucket out, and tip it into a casting mold. Then, you had to pick up the cast blade and hammer it into shape while it was hot. If it cooled down too much, you'd have to stick it into the furnace again for a while. When done, you had to cool it off in some nearby water, fit it with a crossguard and handle and then you'd be done.
All this had to be done within the game world, and not through menus. It was awesome.
A crafting system drawing inspiration from this (perhaps not necessarily as intricate) would be awesome I think. Especially if paired with fitting skill challenges or minigames, that affect the quality of the end product, making it possible to be a better crafter depending on how much effort you put into it.
A version of this in an MMO would be really great IMO. If crafting actually matters in a game the process in which materials are gathered and the process in which items are crafted should matter as well. That way there is more than a statistical difference between those who really want to craft and those who do not.
Funny enough my daughter used to play a cooking game on her DS where you had to use your pen/finger to drag, open, close and mold things to cook them. I always thought something like that would be a great way to implement crafting into an MMO that is more engaging. After seeing this video I think having separate "stages" or places to stand, that would then open a way to use your cursor to manipulate the resources would be a great pairing.
Edit: If this type of crafting was implemented maybe a developer could create an app with the same features so that people could craft with the items they have in their inventory.
Like many others have already said. When crafting is just a click->wait->collect function that can mass produce items in order to level up your crafting skill, it gets really boring, really fast.
I'd love to see more engagement in crafting mechaincs. The best example I've seen of this in a game is in Dark Messiah. It wasn't really a "crafting skill" as much as it was a one-off event in the game.
The way it worked was, you had to go and pick up some ingots and drop them in a smelting bucket. Then go pull a lever to move the bucket into the forge. Then you had to work the bellows until it was sufficiently melted, after which you had to quickly pull the lever again to get the bucket out, and tip it into a casting mold. Then, you had to pick up the cast blade and hammer it into shape while it was hot. If it cooled down too much, you'd have to stick it into the furnace again for a while. When done, you had to cool it off in some nearby water, fit it with a crossguard and handle and then you'd be done.
All this had to be done within the game world, and not through menus. It was awesome.
A crafting system drawing inspiration from this (perhaps not necessarily as intricate) would be awesome I think. Especially if paired with fitting skill challenges or minigames, that affect the quality of the end product, making it possible to be a better crafter depending on how much effort you put into it.
A version of this in an MMO would be really great IMO. If crafting actually matters in a game the process in which materials are gathered and the process in which items are crafted should matter as well. That way there is more than a statistical difference between those who really want to craft and those who do not.
Funny enough my daughter used to play a cooking game on her DS where you had to use your pen/finger to drag, open, close and mold things to cook them. I always thought something like that would be a great way to implement crafting into an MMO that is more engaging. After seeing this video I think having separate "stages" or places to stand, that would then open a way to use your cursor to manipulate the resources would be a great pairing.
Edit: If this type of crafting was implemented maybe a developer could create an app with the same features so that people could craft with the items they have in their inventory.
I have looked into some real life crafting and I have to say I cant agree.
Lets take a look at making cordage from plant fiber for example, the process itself is interesting to learn actually DOING it is not as much.
making terrain flat is intresting to plan to and figure out how much you want to do but actually digging for 8+ hours a day is really not.
planning on how to make a house, materials needs, design of the home itself is intresting, carrying lumber on your back for 8 hours a day is not.
etc
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Like many others have already said. When crafting is just a click->wait->collect function that can mass produce items in order to level up your crafting skill, it gets really boring, really fast.
I'd love to see more engagement in crafting mechaincs. The best example I've seen of this in a game is in Dark Messiah. It wasn't really a "crafting skill" as much as it was a one-off event in the game.
The way it worked was, you had to go and pick up some ingots and drop them in a smelting bucket. Then go pull a lever to move the bucket into the forge. Then you had to work the bellows until it was sufficiently melted, after which you had to quickly pull the lever again to get the bucket out, and tip it into a casting mold. Then, you had to pick up the cast blade and hammer it into shape while it was hot. If it cooled down too much, you'd have to stick it into the furnace again for a while. When done, you had to cool it off in some nearby water, fit it with a crossguard and handle and then you'd be done.
All this had to be done within the game world, and not through menus. It was awesome.
A crafting system drawing inspiration from this (perhaps not necessarily as intricate) would be awesome I think. Especially if paired with fitting skill challenges or minigames, that affect the quality of the end product, making it possible to be a better crafter depending on how much effort you put into it.
A version of this in an MMO would be really great IMO. If crafting actually matters in a game the process in which materials are gathered and the process in which items are crafted should matter as well. That way there is more than a statistical difference between those who really want to craft and those who do not.
Funny enough my daughter used to play a cooking game on her DS where you had to use your pen/finger to drag, open, close and mold things to cook them. I always thought something like that would be a great way to implement crafting into an MMO that is more engaging. After seeing this video I think having separate "stages" or places to stand, that would then open a way to use your cursor to manipulate the resources would be a great pairing.
Edit: If this type of crafting was implemented maybe a developer could create an app with the same features so that people could craft with the items they have in their inventory.
I have looked into some real life crafting and I have to say I cant agree.
Lets take a look at making cordage from plant fiber for example, the process itself is interesting to learn actually DOING it is not as much.
making terrain flat is intresting to plan to and figure out how much you want to do but actually digging for 8+ hours a day is really not.
planning on how to make a house, materials needs, design of the home itself is intresting, carrying lumber on your back for 8 hours a day is not.
etc
Oh, I was not insinuating that the process be exactly like it would be in real life, just more realistic interpretation of it. As it stands now crafting is fairly boring in 99% of MMORPGs. Making the process more involved would add value to the items and give those career crafters something to really enjoy.
@SEANMCAD: I've always thought that a system with great planning depth for crafting (aesthetics, functionality, durability, cost effectiveness, etc) but a completely AFK system for the actual production of things (slaves, robots, clones, etc) would be ideal.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The notion of "hard work" is imo nonsensical, because "hard" and "word" in this context would seem to be two undefined things. It would only mean only one thing according to the eye of the beholder, or it would mean several different things. "Hard work" (probably) makes sense in common real life contexts, but in gaming, it is very unclear to me.
For example. Having to spend a lot of time on something, isn't necessarily something associated with "hard" work.
Also, the notion of playing a game and working are two seemingly mutually excluding concepts, a 'dichotomy' of sorts.
Another aspect to crafting might perhaps pertain to the dichotomy of tactic and strategy.
I.e strategic concerns, being about accomplishing some (specific) larger goal. Either going for some qualitative thing (dragon lance to slay a dragon), or some quantitative thing (mass producing items to cover consumption/demand).
As for tactical concerns, I suppose one could imagine a crafted item to be customizable, within reason and limitation.
personally on crafting weapons, the most rewarding system is being able to craft the strongest weap in the game but the mats needed costs an arm n a leg, with VERY high fail rate.. there was a friend who tried 25+ times n failed, he quit the game broke & a heartache, like some wife leaving a husband & taking the kids & the kitchen sink..but once u do succeed, every sheep & minions would follow u around bombing ur pm box, even a gm would pm u sending congrats.
IMO, crafting should be hard work. This should be one of those "fun minigames".
Have to be a really good game or its going to be boring quick after so many craftings.
It should hard work and boring and have great results. Should be extremely annoying to the instant gratification crowd which makes it fun AND rewarding to those who put in the effort.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
IMO, crafting should be hard work. This should be one of those "fun minigames".
Have to be a really good game or its going to be boring quick after so many craftings.
It should hard work and boring and have great results. Should be extremely annoying to the instant gratification crowd which makes it fun AND rewarding to those who put in the effort.
Its nothing to do with instant gratification. It would make crafting even more niche. Fable 3 or 2 I believe had a crafting mini game. It got old after a week. Having one for months or years would boring.
Well i think the best crafting system is in Wurm online. Its time consuming and you have to do everything yourself, but once you complete it, it feels really good.
My biggest issue with crafting is that everyone can make the same things of the same quality and there is no way to distinguish yourself from other crafters. Some things I would like to see in a crafting system are:
1. A need for lower level items. Making 100 knives when no one would ever use one is silly. Maybe locking lower level players to lower skill weapons or making knives an ingredient in some other crafters profession. There just needs to be a use for things other than just the highest level items
2. An experimental system would be nice. Maybe by adding 5x the resources or through some other mechanic crafters could experience on an item to boost its quality.
3. A benefit to being a max level crafter. I would like to see max level crafters get random blueprints occasionally as they craft. If I am making 20 high level guns, a random blueprint drops and gives me 5 uses to make the same weapon only a quality better.
4. Uniqueness. Being a crafter longer gives a benefit. SWG did this by spawning different quality resources each week. Those crafters who had been collecting resources for a year or more could use the better stuff to make better weapons. It meant that the oldest crafter characters could make weapons that did a few extra points of damage and people would pay a premium price and seek them out. Brand new master weaponsmiths could not make them quite as good and had to sell for lower prices until they gained better resources.
5. Having a crafters mark/name. I like being able to put my characters name on items he makes. It helps with advertising and in a game like SWG where each crafter was different, it brought more people to the better crafters.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
It should hard work and boring and have great results. Should be extremely annoying to the instant gratification crowd which makes it fun AND rewarding to those who put in the effort.
I don't see why it have to be boring... For instance you usually need loads of easy to get hard materials instead of few hard to get. And you need to make loads of useless stuff before you can make something useful. You usually run around for hours farming the same nodes over and over... Pointless.
The hard part I agree with and the rewarding result Screw the instant gratification group because good items should be hard and time consuming to get no matter how you get them but adding a boring game design on purpose is moronic.
Hard and time consuming things can actually be fun so why set for less?
It should hard work and boring and have great results. Should be extremely annoying to the instant gratification crowd which makes it fun AND rewarding to those who put in the effort.
I don't see why it have to be boring... For instance you usually need loads of easy to get hard materials instead of few hard to get. And you need to make loads of useless stuff before you can make something useful. You usually run around for hours farming the same nodes over and over... Pointless.
The hard part I agree with and the rewarding result Screw the instant gratification group because good items should be hard and time consuming to get no matter how you get them but adding a boring game design on purpose is moronic.
Hard and time consuming things can actually be fun so why set for less?
I was pushing back. Recognize it. Think of it as a kick to the head.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
IMO, crafting should be hard work. This should be one of those "fun minigames".
Have to be a really good game or its going to be boring quick after so many craftings.
It should hard work and boring and have great results. Should be extremely annoying to the instant gratification crowd which makes it fun AND rewarding to those who put in the effort.
Its nothing to do with instant gratification. It would make crafting even more niche. Fable 3 or 2 I believe had a crafting mini game. It got old after a week. Having one for months or years would boring.
You say niche like it is wrong. Nothing wrong with niche. In fact, I believe the make it in a way that everyone will want to play it has brought this industry down. Like those people who used to complain that only a 3% of wow players were in endgame raid so change it so that you get many more. It has brought ruined upon gaming and if you only see it as the change in percentage you are blind to it.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
TES alchemy system does a good job. By taking on your potion crafting you're given the tools to get out situations you otherwise wouldn't be able to, you can solve problems in different ways, and people attempting to solve the problem are likely to solve it in a different way with different advantages/disadvantages.
I would say that Haven and Hearth does a good job at crafting. While it's missing the adaptability of the above it has every last game system tied into crafting, so much so that at the end of the day you aren't wondering how much EXP you earned but which new items you can make or which items you can now make better of. Your leveling is tied to your crafting, your stat increase is tied to crafting, your shelter, storage, gear, and other protections are tied to crafting.
Runescape while typically doesn't does have moments of clarity. Tying crafting to quest requirements, in those quests the ability to craft being a primary feature, some high end gear requiring crafting levels, the ability to temporarily "supervise" someone so that for a small bit they take on your crafting levels, and tying crafting to your guild hall.
_______________
When it comes to an MMO(lets assume typical World Of Everclone for discussion) especially one with combat PvPerI would suspect that it's impossible to make a fulfilling and thematic system without nerfing your combat potential somewhere else, remove one of your class features for a different one in crafting. After you do that you can start to do things like:
Your own crafted gear having higher stats than raid gear, and the ability to temporarily go Scotty on it and go 120% on gear stats as a buff
You can start to make tools that are single use and powerful. craft grenades/whatever to essentially mimic a different class feature once in a battle
You can do other stuff like giving raid parties the ability to skip some early content at the cost of an individual that is missing a class feature. Hack through a door that skips a mid boss or similar, heal a debuff that is normally intended to last the whole dungeon, or add an extra gambit that modifies a fight (crafted captured divinity, that when applied with the right combination of pre combat actions lowers a bosses health by X% or disables X ability).
You can make it so that crafted gear has a modifiable range of stats. Slightly shift a stat up and down or similar(Of course on a non crafter these types of items would be worse than raid gear, on a crafter better after fulfilling a gambit on a raid).
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Comments
I'd love to see more engagement in crafting mechaincs. The best example I've seen of this in a game is in Dark Messiah. It wasn't really a "crafting skill" as much as it was a one-off event in the game.
The way it worked was, you had to go and pick up some ingots and drop them in a smelting bucket.
Then go pull a lever to move the bucket into the forge.
Then you had to work the bellows until it was sufficiently melted, after which you had to quickly pull the lever again to get the bucket out, and tip it into a casting mold.
Then, you had to pick up the cast blade and hammer it into shape while it was hot. If it cooled down too much, you'd have to stick it into the furnace again for a while.
When done, you had to cool it off in some nearby water, fit it with a crossguard and handle and then you'd be done.
All this had to be done within the game world, and not through menus. It was awesome.
A crafting system drawing inspiration from this (perhaps not necessarily as intricate) would be awesome I think. Especially if paired with fitting skill challenges or minigames, that affect the quality of the end product, making it possible to be a better crafter depending on how much effort you put into it.
Randomization and specialization on what players make by player choice. Meaning you research and improve your players crafting skills over time to something unique. Maybe your gear has fire resistance because you specialize in it or maybe you just want to make the best helmets possible. Have different swappable recources have different properties like using gold is resistant to magic but if you use steel it's damage resistant. Have gameplay that requires specialized gear.
If your game has no depth ,then your crafting will NEVER be any good no matter how hard you try.
It is as simple as that.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Is depth a time requirement, as many here define it?
Is depth defined by difficult decisions, as I define it?
Is depth defined by integration into the game's overall content design?
Do you have another definition of depth that doesn't mesh into any of the above?
It's all well and good that I can craft myself a sword, but why shouldn't I be able to choose what the sword looks like? instead of just creating identical copies to every other sword.
It would be cool to be able to create a unique look for your crafted items. Perhaps from a list of presets (blade, handle, crossguard, pommel, length, etc.) or with complete freedom through advanced voxel tech.
Although the latter is probably a pipedream reserved for when everyone has the equivalent of supercomputers in their homes by today's standards.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zfxutd2RDxM
A version of this in an MMO would be really great IMO. If crafting actually matters in a game the process in which materials are gathered and the process in which items are crafted should matter as well. That way there is more than a statistical difference between those who really want to craft and those who do not.
Funny enough my daughter used to play a cooking game on her DS where you had to use your pen/finger to drag, open, close and mold things to cook them. I always thought something like that would be a great way to implement crafting into an MMO that is more engaging. After seeing this video I think having separate "stages" or places to stand, that would then open a way to use your cursor to manipulate the resources would be a great pairing.
Edit: If this type of crafting was implemented maybe a developer could create an app with the same features so that people could craft with the items they have in their inventory.
Lets take a look at making cordage from plant fiber for example, the process itself is interesting to learn actually DOING it is not as much.
making terrain flat is intresting to plan to and figure out how much you want to do but actually digging for 8+ hours a day is really not.
planning on how to make a house, materials needs, design of the home itself is intresting, carrying lumber on your back for 8 hours a day is not.
etc
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
For example. Having to spend a lot of time on something, isn't necessarily something associated with "hard" work.
Also, the notion of playing a game and working are two seemingly mutually excluding concepts, a 'dichotomy' of sorts.
I.e strategic concerns, being about accomplishing some (specific) larger goal. Either going for some qualitative thing (dragon lance to slay a dragon), or some quantitative thing (mass producing items to cover consumption/demand).
As for tactical concerns, I suppose one could imagine a crafted item to be customizable, within reason and limitation.
Like different fail states (sort of like the cpu's and gpu's you buy)
E.g Total fail, aesthetic fail, something else, and perhaps most importantly, unable to achieve the best result.
It should hard work and boring and have great results. Should be extremely annoying to the instant gratification crowd which makes it fun AND rewarding to those who put in the effort.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Well i think the best crafting system is in Wurm online. Its time consuming and you have to do everything yourself, but once you complete it, it feels really good.
1. A need for lower level items. Making 100 knives when no one would ever use one is silly. Maybe locking lower level players to lower skill weapons or making knives an ingredient in some other crafters profession. There just needs to be a use for things other than just the highest level items
2. An experimental system would be nice. Maybe by adding 5x the resources or through some other mechanic crafters could experience on an item to boost its quality.
3. A benefit to being a max level crafter. I would like to see max level crafters get random blueprints occasionally as they craft. If I am making 20 high level guns, a random blueprint drops and gives me 5 uses to make the same weapon only a quality better.
4. Uniqueness. Being a crafter longer gives a benefit. SWG did this by spawning different quality resources each week. Those crafters who had been collecting resources for a year or more could use the better stuff to make better weapons. It meant that the oldest crafter characters could make weapons that did a few extra points of damage and people would pay a premium price and seek them out. Brand new master weaponsmiths could not make them quite as good and had to sell for lower prices until they gained better resources.
5. Having a crafters mark/name. I like being able to put my characters name on items he makes. It helps with advertising and in a game like SWG where each crafter was different, it brought more people to the better crafters.
The hard part I agree with and the rewarding result Screw the instant gratification group because good items should be hard and time consuming to get no matter how you get them but adding a boring game design on purpose is moronic.
Hard and time consuming things can actually be fun so why set for less?
I was pushing back. Recognize it. Think of it as a kick to the head.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You say niche like it is wrong. Nothing wrong with niche. In fact, I believe the make it in a way that everyone will want to play it has brought this industry down. Like those people who used to complain that only a 3% of wow players were in endgame raid so change it so that you get many more. It has brought ruined upon gaming and if you only see it as the change in percentage you are blind to it.
/end
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I would say that Haven and Hearth does a good job at crafting. While it's missing the adaptability of the above it has every last game system tied into crafting, so much so that at the end of the day you aren't wondering how much EXP you earned but which new items you can make or which items you can now make better of. Your leveling is tied to your crafting, your stat increase is tied to crafting, your shelter, storage, gear, and other protections are tied to crafting.
Runescape while typically doesn't does have moments of clarity. Tying crafting to quest requirements, in those quests the ability to craft being a primary feature, some high end gear requiring crafting levels, the ability to temporarily "supervise" someone so that for a small bit they take on your crafting levels, and tying crafting to your guild hall.
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When it comes to an MMO(lets assume typical World Of Everclone for discussion) especially one with combat PvPer I would suspect that it's impossible to make a fulfilling and thematic system without nerfing your combat potential somewhere else, remove one of your class features for a different one in crafting. After you do that you can start to do things like:
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."