We had popular MMOs back in the day, we had (and still have) SWG, AO, WOW; and they were all designed around a subscription payment model.
Beyond these games we had the meteoric rise of the mobile market. First of all our mobile games were free. I remember buying a mobile that came with the likes of Tetris or Snake as a free bonus. Then the mobile market started to change, it became apparent that the casual market were prepared to pay to remove an invisible wall and progress, whether that be a time lock or a some other synthetic obstacle.
I place these payments in the same category as most advertisements... I honestly wonder in this day and age how people are seduced by them, these marketing or monetisation techniques are no longer a mystery to anyone... why are people still so stupid as to react? I genuinely see a billboard or watch an advertisement during a television programme, and wonder who the somnambulists are who allow themselves to be manipulated in such a primal and obvious manner.
But this system of preying upon people's frustration, rather than profiting on people's enjoyment seems to be a trend that has spilled from mobile gaming over into the MMO genre. We have recently seen the announcement that gambling boxes will be introduced into ESO.
My real fear is that once a developer's attention turns from:
maximising profit by creating the best in-game experience for their players; to
maximising profit by exploiting player frustration or those with poor impulse control.
Then you have lost me as a subscriber. You are no longer working in my interests as a customer, you are now working in your shareholder's interests.
So why is it that us, as MMO gamers seem to be a market that can be so easily manipulated by such obvious advertising or monetisation techniques? What is it about us that is so malleable?
Please share your thoughts.
Being someone who has been in the gaming industry for over 30 years watched things change.... One main reason things are changing, developers get little to no say yet gamers blame them....I worked for large and small companies, we get little to no say... People don't understand this....They say we aren't creative, wrong, when you work for companies, they tell you what you can and cant do, that is what we all have to do is listen to your boss's...Do you do what you want at your job??? No... They tell you what you can and can't do..
Many developers like myself, and others that been around have left the market due to the gamers attitude today are horrible....THE death threats over a game, something we have no control over, if we did is pretty messed up to threaten a mans life over a video game.....The amount of work that developers do, is something most of you would never have to deal with....14-6 hour days...don't see your wife for weeks at a time.. or family....... Deal with idiots who never made a game tell you what you can and can't do..That is the market..
Now more and more developers are being hired to work out of gaming and making more money , less stress...and no one threating there lives... Now you have mobile, mobile games are less money needed to make, less stress to make...More and more are doing this as well..
I called this out for the past decade that this would happen, and people never listen, I see the emails that come into companies from gamers, the type of emails are disgusting, and immature .... I have worked with some of the most talented people, and watch them leave game development due to the amount of stress from work, boss's and the community...Its not worth it....You people only have your selves to blame ....You will continue to see bad games being made and more and more good developers getting out of gaming and making a better living else where.....Programmers are needed everywhere...Game development programmers have a major shortage..due to this... and other reasons.
A subscription that gets you all the content and equal advantages as everyone else is well worth it. If a game isn't worth 15$ a month of my money, it isn't worth my time.
I disagree. 15$ is the price of a lunch, drink and tip. Everyone can afford 15$ if they are willing to forgo a few other splurges for a month of unlimited quality entertainment. Besides. More and more games are allowing you to pay for your subscription/premium with items that can be purchased with in-game gold for those months when the budget is especially thin.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMOs have truly gone mainstream, which in America means CONSUMERISM! Do you Taco Bell is spending money to provide you with the healthiest most nutritious food with a Mexican flavor it can create? NO it's SELLING something resembling meat but convincing you that you are far more hungry then you are and you must eat this food and pay $2 for a cup of soda to MAKE MONEY ON YOU.
Do you think Overwatch is some grand innovative video game? It is almost literally a reskin of Team Fortress 2 but because Blizzard made it and Blizzard = World of Warcraft = MMO I have fond memories of = Coolest new game ever and you MUST play it. You bought it.
People were also 'stupid' back in the late 90's paying subscriptions for online gaming.
People are even more stupid now, paying hundreds for a shiny pixel pony and thousands for the sword of a thousand truths.
i think that less stupid than paying subs.
at least he owns the weapon... subs is like renting a house, not owning a house
You need to read the agreement before you log in an MMO. That sword you bought for $100 still doesn't belong to you. Nothing in that game is yours and can be taken away. Literally everything is rented. If you want to look at it that way.
My real fear is that once a developer's attention turns from:
maximising profit by creating the best in-game experience for their players; to
maximising profit by exploiting player frustration or those with poor impulse control.
Then you have lost me as a subscriber. You are no longer working in my interests as a customer, you are now working in your shareholder's interests.
Why do you care what interests they are working for? If the game is fun for you, play it. If it is not, or frustrating because of design, do something else.
And so what if they lose you as a subscriber? They are not making sub-games anyway, and no one says they have to cater to you. It is a free market. They decide what they want to cater to, you decide if you want to play.
My real fear is that once a developer's attention turns from:
maximising profit by creating the best in-game experience for their players; to
maximising profit by exploiting player frustration or those with poor impulse control.
Then you have lost me as a subscriber. You are no longer working in my interests as a customer, you are now working in your shareholder's interests.
Why do you care what interests they are working for? If the game is fun for you, play it. If it is not, or frustrating because of design, do something else.
And so what if they lose you as a subscriber? They are not making sub-games anyway, and no one says they have to cater to you. It is a free market. They decide what they want to cater to, you decide if you want to play.
Market research Nari, we are just trying to identify a solid niche that is currently being underserved.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most major developers have gone to mobile or some form of casual game. It costs a fraction of the money, manpower, and time to develop mobile/casual games. It also seems to offer a higher chance of success with a lower cost of failure.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Most major developers have gone to mobile or some form of casual game. It costs a fraction of the money, manpower, and time to develop mobile/casual games. It also seems to offer a higher chance of success with a lower cost of failure.
Well, that is the appearance of success of that approach. For every game that gets released, how many don't make it to that point? How many get lost in the crowd of games offered in the apps stores. Just because you make a game doesn't mean people will know about it. After it is available in a store how many of these games become a big hit?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
People are most likely to play games using their phones nowadays since it's so easily accessible compared to consoles or PCs. It's used as a way to waste time during boring office hours or commutes, and really, it has high potential for profit. I still can't wrap around my head why people spend for stupid games yet they still do. There's temptation somewhere in mobile gaming, and somehow, it works.
Most major developers have gone to mobile or some form of casual game. It costs a fraction of the money, manpower, and time to develop mobile/casual games. It also seems to offer a higher chance of success with a lower cost of failure.
Well, that is the appearance of success of that approach. For every game that gets released, how many don't make it to that point? How many get lost in the crowd of games offered in the apps stores. Just because you make a game doesn't mean people will know about it. After it is available in a store how many of these games become a big hit?
because people are on the move and in this world were you get unlimited or many GB of broadband on your phone makes sense. however the technology does not make it fun.i tried celtic heroes on ipad and honestly did not enjoy it at all
People were also 'stupid' back in the late 90's paying subscriptions for online gaming.
People are even more stupid now, paying hundreds for a shiny pixel pony and thousands for the sword of a thousand truths.
i think that less stupid than paying subs.
at least he owns the weapon... subs is like renting a house, not owning a house
[mod edit]
ALL MMOs are FINITE, just like everything else. Do you really think it's smarter to sink 7 months worth of a sub fee on a single item when you can pay $180/year for access to ALL of the content?
because people are on the move and in this world were you get unlimited or many GB of broadband on your phone makes sense. however the technology does not make it fun.i tried celtic heroes on ipad and honestly did not enjoy it at all
Did you try any others?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Most major developers have gone to mobile or some form of casual game. It costs a fraction of the money, manpower, and time to develop mobile/casual games. It also seems to offer a higher chance of success with a lower cost of failure.
Well, that is the appearance of success of that approach. For every game that gets released, how many don't make it to that point? How many get lost in the crowd of games offered in the apps stores. Just because you make a game doesn't mean people will know about it. After it is available in a store how many of these games become a big hit?
Which is why I spoke solely of major developers. Success rate and even delivery rate is very different for indies, hobbyists, and even small studios. For example, any iPhone/iPad app dev can tell you that you're pretty much struggling in obscurity if you don't have the money or the resources to get on that featured app list. It's the "end cap" of the App Store.
Also worth noting is that you seem to be addressing mobile games in general and the topic is mobile MMOs.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
OP is spot on, the other issue from smartphones is the play culture that becomes the norm in MMOs on other platforms. Being dumbed down is the obvious one. There may be players who have only played mobiles before so that becomes bar above which difficulty must not reach.
We saw this all before with consoles, the same thing happened then, simpler UI led to simpler game play. Now its mobiles, so even simpler. Games can only get worse when they are played on the platform with the smallest screen.
OP is spot on, the other issue from smartphones is the play culture that becomes the norm in MMOs on other platforms. Being dumbed down is the obvious one. There may be players who have only played mobiles before so that becomes bar above which difficulty must not reach.
We saw this all before with consoles, the same thing happened then, simpler UI led to simpler game play. Now its mobiles, so even simpler. Games can only get worse when they are played on the platform with the smallest screen.
"worse" is subjective.
Hitman Go, Tombraider Go, Deus Ex Go are all fun little puzzle games. I would prefer those games than 95% of MMOs. Heck, those are a lot more fun to me, than Eve. At least you need to use your brain most of the time, instead of staring at a traveling space ship.
Comments
Many developers like myself, and others that been around have left the market due to the gamers attitude today are horrible....THE death threats over a game, something we have no control over, if we did is pretty messed up to threaten a mans life over a video game.....The amount of work that developers do, is something most of you would never have to deal with....14-6 hour days...don't see your wife for weeks at a time.. or family....... Deal with idiots who never made a game tell you what you can and can't do..That is the market..
Now more and more developers are being hired to work out of gaming and making more money , less stress...and no one threating there lives... Now you have mobile, mobile games are less money needed to make, less stress to make...More and more are doing this as well..
I called this out for the past decade that this would happen, and people never listen, I see the emails that come into companies from gamers, the type of emails are disgusting, and immature .... I have worked with some of the most talented people, and watch them leave game development due to the amount of stress from work, boss's and the community...Its not worth it....You people only have your selves to blame ....You will continue to see bad games being made and more and more good developers getting out of gaming and making a better living else where.....Programmers are needed everywhere...Game development programmers have a major shortage..due to this... and other reasons.
They usually do not mean just the people writing the code.
quit that elite attitude..
Yes, but he promised to come back with a vengeance.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
MMOs have truly gone mainstream, which in America means CONSUMERISM! Do you Taco Bell is spending money to provide you with the healthiest most nutritious food with a Mexican flavor it can create? NO it's SELLING something resembling meat but convincing you that you are far more hungry then you are and you must eat this food and pay $2 for a cup of soda to MAKE MONEY ON YOU.
Do you think Overwatch is some grand innovative video game? It is almost literally a reskin of Team Fortress 2 but because Blizzard made it and Blizzard = World of Warcraft = MMO I have fond memories of = Coolest new game ever and you MUST play it. You bought it.
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
at least he owns the weapon... subs is like renting a house, not owning a house
Those mobile monetization tricks have been in asian MMO's for years...
And so what if they lose you as a subscriber? They are not making sub-games anyway, and no one says they have to cater to you. It is a free market. They decide what they want to cater to, you decide if you want to play.
Think of it as a public service we're doing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Well, that is the appearance of success of that approach. For every game that gets released, how many don't make it to that point? How many get lost in the crowd of games offered in the apps stores. Just because you make a game doesn't mean people will know about it. After it is available in a store how many of these games become a big hit?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
however the technology does not make it fun.i tried celtic heroes on ipad and honestly did not enjoy it at all
ALL MMOs are FINITE, just like everything else. Do you really think it's smarter to sink 7 months worth of a sub fee on a single item when you can pay $180/year for access to ALL of the content?
This isn't the golden age of MMOs when people stick around for literally a decade or more. We're living in an era of gaming where 6 months is considered veteran, and the average attention span for human beings has fallen more than 4 seconds since the year 2000.
[mod edit]
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Also worth noting is that you seem to be addressing mobile games in general and the topic is mobile MMOs.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
We saw this all before with consoles, the same thing happened then, simpler UI led to simpler game play. Now its mobiles, so even simpler. Games can only get worse when they are played on the platform with the smallest screen.
Hitman Go, Tombraider Go, Deus Ex Go are all fun little puzzle games. I would prefer those games than 95% of MMOs. Heck, those are a lot more fun to me, than Eve. At least you need to use your brain most of the time, instead of staring at a traveling space ship.