The Diablofication of WoW

SBFord · October 2016

The Diablofication of WoW

Now that World of Warcraft: Legion has been out for just over a month, some of the classic ‘fatigue’ with any expansion is beginning to set in. As an up-to-recently avid Diablo III players, Shelassa and I began to notice several things in Legion that seem awwww-fully familiar and what we now affectionately call the “Diablofication of WoW”.

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Albatroes · October 2016

To mean, increased levels of the same content doesn't honestly help the game because you're ultimately doing the same thing just with additional mechanics, thus leading to burn out quicker. Content in earlier years of most games would just have the one setting that you were either good enough to do or not. Personally, it helped me become a better player overtime and added motivation to keep getting better since there was only one version of it. Of course the point of multiples of the same content is for people to find out where they are comfortable but it adds no motivation to go beyond that or even see if they can or not. Many people dont even go beyond LFR because of time constraints or they just dont see a point since gear becomes easier to get as time progresses.

filmoret · October 2016

I dont mind RNG item drops. But RNG crafting is where I draw the line.

Forgrimm · October 2016

filmoret said:

I dont mind RNG item drops. But RNG crafting is where I draw the line.

Yeah the RNG crafting sucks. I've been stuck at 785 alchemy because I haven't procced a rank 3 upgrade for any of my rank 2 recipes, despite making a boatload of them. So all of my recipes are greyed out. Only reason I was able to go from 780 to 785 is because I did the Darkmoon Faire alchemy quest.

Thane · October 2016

imo WoW ain't diablofied.

that's a progress affecting both games for some years now, blizzard is moving them closer together.

Diablo on the one hand, got more and more from WoW, while WoW... well, i think you get my point

The RNG thing is part of WoW since the beginning, and who didn't notice, most likely never raided MC :>

toolak · October 2016

I been saying it's becoming more Diablo like for years. And not for crafting or RNG. I started a hunter on a private server and had more skills and options by level 20 than my wife has at lv 110 on her live acct. All they need to do is add a potion slot.

holdenhamlet · October 2016

Hmm, well this RNG seems vastly preferable to the kind of RNG we've seen recently from eastern MMORPGs- where you spend a week grinding the same mobs for currency and then spend that currency attempting to upgrade something, only to watch it blow up.

Not only is there zero variety in the "grind", but there are potentially horrendous outcomes.

laserit · October 2016

toolak said:

I been saying it's becoming more Diablo like for years. And not for crafting or RNG. I started a hunter on a private server and had more skills and options by level 20 than my wife has at lv 110 on her live acct. All they need to do is add a potion slot.

Not disagreeing with you or anything.

But one thing that has crossed my mind many times is: How many skills and abilities can you have before you have too many or they just become redundant.

The design of always adding more and more every couple of levels just seems to me to have its own set of flaws.

Laughing-man · October 2016

I haven't played Diablo 3. Maybe I should pick it up. I love what Legion has done.

gervaise1 · October 2016

Thane said:

imo WoW ain't diablofied.
that's a progress affecting both games for some years now, blizzard is moving them closer together.
Diablo on the one hand, got more and more from WoW, while WoW... well, i think you get my point
The RNG thing is part of WoW since the beginning, and who didn't notice, most likely never raided MC :>

Yes RNG has been a part of WoW (and other games) for years. However:

The "complaint" that currently litters the forums is that with legion it is RNG within RNG within RNG.

Suzie brought up cooking in the article; players play the RNG game to track down rare ingredients; then they hand them over and play the RNG game again to see if they get a recipe. If not start over. And if they do get a recipe then they get to play the which recipe is it RNG game.

Grind is another "complaint" or rather how grind scales. Sticking with the food theme people have estimated that - based on progress so far - 3.5 years to hit max. skill.

There is grind and then there is tedium.

Scot · October 2016

It seems from what Suzie has said that no "boxes" are being bought, as long as that's the case it is not casino gaming. It is a variation on the grind that has been with us since the beginning of MMOs. It seems to be moving into new areas like crafting, not sure that's good, a MMO should not rely on RNG alone.

Ziboo · October 2016

Crafting RNG like the new cooking, I hate and won't do it. I stopped a few weeks ago, as it's highly distasteful to waste hours of time for zero return. Dungeon/world event drops fine, but professions, no thanks. If RNG creep is going to enter every phase of the game, that's too bad - reason to avoid the new content. I'd prefer less like Korean grinders, not more.

laserit · October 2016

Torval said:

Scot said:

It seems from what Suzie has said that no "boxes" are being bought, as long as that's the case it is not casino gaming. It is a variation on the grind that has been with us since the beginning of MMOs. It seems to be moving into new areas like crafting, not sure that's good, a MMO should not rely on RNG alone.

It's the exact same mechanic packaged in a different wrapper. At least you acknowledge that it's been a part of mmo gaming since the beginning. Clever packaging has fooled mmo gamers for nearly two decades now.

I disagree its a matter of being fooled. Odds for something being dropped have been around for quite some time on sites like WoWhead

Carrot on Stick et all

orbitxo · October 2016

wow has managed to reinvent itself- once again!- this time gamers take notice! they have donw an excellent job in this expansion!

all the diablo 3 implementations are great

Soki123 · October 2016

Its actually a good thing, WoW is better then ever.

Soki123 · October 2016

Lol, I remember the old days where it took forever to get anything. Maybe people should stop rushing and enjoy the games for what they are. All this pixel elitism makes me cringe and laugh at the same time.

TheFunky1 · October 2016

Wow, this actually sounds pretty cool. Why didn't my friends mention this when they wanted me to come back. I always ran more dungeons than I needed to and helped others on their raids before because it was fun and now it looks like I would have incentive to do so, even if it's a small chance at progression, it is progression nonetheless.

laserit · October 2016

Torval said:

laserit said:

Torval said:

Scot said:

It seems from what Suzie has said that no "boxes" are being bought, as long as that's the case it is not casino gaming. It is a variation on the grind that has been with us since the beginning of MMOs. It seems to be moving into new areas like crafting, not sure that's good, a MMO should not rely on RNG alone.

It's the exact same mechanic packaged in a different wrapper. At least you acknowledge that it's been a part of mmo gaming since the beginning. Clever packaging has fooled mmo gamers for nearly two decades now.

I disagree its a matter of being fooled. Odds for something being dropped have been around for quite some time on sites like WoWhead

Carrot on Stick et all

Does Blizzard publish those odds or are they a calculated estimate based on observation? There is a difference. Usually on the hobbyist level a big difference.

Besides, it doesn't matter because they both have RNG odds associated with getting what you want. You can measure the success and odds of getting a loot box item or an epic upgrade or the drop you want. The mechanic is essentially the same just different packaging.

I agree with you on principle.

IMHO Blizzard is totally guilty of abusing the subscription model.

One of the good points about the subscription only model is that it limits a person to being taken advantage of for $15 a month.

The Cash Shop RNG Loot Box model ?

HolyTrevor · October 2016

isnt there a paladin spell thats alot like a crusader one?

zephirius · October 2016

Soki123 said:

Lol, I remember the old days where it took forever to get anything. Maybe people should stop rushing and enjoy the games for what they are. All this pixel elitism makes me cringe and laugh at the same time.

I played Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Everquest 2 for many years, but about 8-10 years ago I started to become disillusioned with all the grinding. Maybe it was getting older and realizing how truly precious real-life time was that caused it. Regardless, while I do enjoy RNG in some forms (i.e. procedurally generated rooms, procedurally generated modifiers like in Ziggurat, and even random item drops as one previous poster said) there comes a point where one must say "Enough is enough" Even if I had all day every day to play video games I still couldn't and wouldn't "anchor" myself to a virtual world that, if you get right down to it, is all 0's and 1's on a display.

Forgrimm · October 2016

HolyTrevor said:

isnt there a paladin spell thats alot like a crusader one?

Crusader borrowed a few abilities from WoW's paladin.

Soki123 · October 2016

zephirius said:

Soki123 said:

Lol, I remember the old days where it took forever to get anything. Maybe people should stop rushing and enjoy the games for what they are. All this pixel elitism makes me cringe and laugh at the same time.

I played Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and Everquest 2 for many years, but about 8-10 years ago I started to become disillusioned with all the grinding. Maybe it was getting older and realizing how truly precious real-life time was that caused it. Regardless, while I do enjoy RNG in some forms (i.e. procedurally generated rooms, procedurally generated modifiers like in Ziggurat, and even random item drops as one previous poster said) there comes a point where one must say "Enough is enough" Even if I had all day every day to play video games I still couldn't and wouldn't "anchor" myself to a virtual world that, if you get right down to it, is all 0's and 1's on a display.

I find it more that the game will last me longer. It really is just a release from reality, so why would I want it to end sooner. I played all those games as well, and I like it when a game takes me longer to achieve what I want.

rertez · October 2016

I'm pretty sure that many of the features listed above originally came from games like Guild Wars 2.
I mean I saw the Fractals (GRift or Mythic Plus) dungeon system with a difficulty scale and with so called Mystlock Instability (WoW M+ Affixes) mechanics first introduced back in 2012 in GW2. D3 did the same later with GRifts starting in 2014. Yes D3 and WoW has key items and the progression is not account wide but the rest is basically the same idea as Fractals.
That's just one example among many like Account Wardrobe and other end game progression systems. GW2 had WvW masteries back in 2013 and later in 2015 PvE masteries came with a different twist. You basically progress in a selected mastery and you also collect mastery points besides mastery xp. The higher level the selected mastery is the more grind it requires to get it unlocked. The Artifact Weapon progression seems to be a merged implementation of HoT Legendary journey + the PvE Mastery system.
WoW even tried to implement the Action Camera controls in Legion as GW2 did the same earlier with the HoT expansion but Blizzard's solution was reportedly causing motion sickness and they removed the feature right after release. I guess they rushed it and the complaints were due to unreasonably limited zoom and FoV settings bound to action controls.
Of course all these features are great when they are done right but they have never been exclusive to Diablo 3. I'm not even saying that ANet or other MMO devs invented the wheel but it was strange to see the same features in Blizzard's games not long after GW2 took the risk to try and enhance them live on the same market.

Soki123 · October 2016

rertez said:

I'm pretty sure that many of the features listed above originally came from games like Guild Wars 2.
I mean I saw the Fractals (GRift or Mythic Plus) dungeon system with a difficulty scale and with so called Mystlock Instability (WoW M+ Affixes) mechanics first introduced back in 2012 in GW2. D3 did the same later with GRifts starting in 2014. Yes D3 and WoW has key items and the progression is not account wide but the rest is basically the same idea as Fractals.
That's just one example among many like Account Wardrobe and other end game progression systems. GW2 had WvW masteries back in 2013 and later in 2015 PvE masteries came with a different twist. You basically progress in a selected mastery and you also collect mastery points besides mastery xp. The higher level the selected mastery is the more grind it requires to get it unlocked. The Artifact Weapon progression seems to be a merged implementation of HoT Legendary journey + the PvE Mastery system.
WoW even tried to implement the Action Camera controls in Legion as GW2 did the same earlier with the HoT expansion but Blizzard's solution was reportedly causing motion sickness and they removed the feature right after release. I guess they rushed it and the complaints were due to unreasonably limited zoom and FoV settings bound to action controls.
Of course all these features are great when they are done right but they have never been exclusive to Diablo 3. I'm not even saying that ANet or other MMO devs invented the wheel but it was strange to see the same features in Blizzard's games not long after GW2 took the risk to try and enhance them live on the same market.

Umm no.

SBFord · October 2016

HolyTrevor said:

isnt there a paladin spell thats alot like a crusader one?

At least 2: The Crusader horse that is basically a summon that can be used as an escape mechanic and talented to be able to be used 2x -- hell on a battleground. In addition, the spinning hammers is a first row talent for Protection Pallies.

Kamofila · October 2016

Thane said:

imo WoW ain't diablofied.

that's a progress affecting both games for some years now, blizzard is moving them closer together.

Diablo on the one hand, got more and more from WoW, while WoW... well, i think you get my point

The RNG thing is part of WoW since the beginning, and who didn't notice, most likely never raided MC :>

imo WoW ain't diablofied.
Yes it is

that's a progress affecting both games for some years now, blizzard is moving them closer together.
But you just contradicted yourself

Diablo on the one hand, got more and more from WoW, while WoW... well, i think you get my point

You repeated yourself

The RNG thing is part of WoW since the beginning, and who didn't notice, most likely never raided MC :>
You are so pro and cool

Slowly losing faith in humanity
Yep

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