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Strong Reasons Not To Play Warhammer 2007!!!
oliverc4
Member Posts: 199
When someone is looking forward to playing this game created by the
original team of DAoC and expecting the same or much more fun like
DAoC, I have something in mind that stops me from choosing this game.
Why?
1.
Mythics doesn't listen to players' complaints for years about the
overpowered Hibernia and is still not willing to nerf the OP hib
classes in view of the unbalanced issues.
2. Mythics told
people that they play their games too. So I strongly believe that they
are going to create an overpowered Realm (of course only known by
themselves at first) for them to play. A year or less pass, when
players from the other realms find that the Hib-like realm is
overpowered and yells for nerfs, Mythics will not do so because that is
the realm they are playing. Love will only go to Mythics' realm. As a
result, most people gone for this realm.
3. Unless they fire
the original DAoC Designer who has been making final decisions on the
unbalanced issues to be adjusted or not, the new game design will once
again lead to a similar situation like DAoC - realm C underpopulated
(people already tried realm A and B, so just spare some time to minor
play in C); realm A overpopulated (it is the main story line so most
people choose to play it, and also because aged players love original
things which would make them think 'oh right'); realm B overpopulated
because their classes are on easy mode which requires not much skill to
stun nuke people (so as to make themselves having something to write in
VN board and defend that their realm is not overpowered). And then
DAoC2 appears.
(think of the way that A-Alb, B-Hib, C-Mid)
4.
Perhaps, Mythics will not design a perfectly balanced MMORPG (look at
DAoC), otherwise there will not be enough buyers for their next online
games (eg. IAMBAINSHEE 2010 or STUNNUKEYOU 2020) because there already
exists a perfect balanced game.
In fact, #2 is the main reason that I am concerned.
So, will you try Warhammer 2007?
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Comments
This is funny and sad all at the time same time. Ok, let me see here. Your claim is that because Mythic plays the game they want to pwn everyone else. So they made this unbalanced realm. Then they all play this realm so they can win against all of the other players. If this reasoning was not so pathetic I would probably be insulting you right now.
1. Mythic doesn't liksten to player complaints? Funny about that since the entire set of last patches were because of players. The next 2-3 patches are from player inputs. They are going to be addressing some other issues later this year as well. People wanted housing so they got housing. People wanted a new frontier so they got a new frontier. Your complaint is essentially a rant about Hibernia so do not make this about not listening to the players. It is about not listening to you and other ranters about Hib.
2. The developers are evenly split in terms of the number of level 50 characters between all three realms. The handful of employees that I know of that play predominately one realm all play Alb or Mid. In fact the complaint from Hib players 3 years ago is what you are now saying. "All of Mythics employes must play Alb but Hib gets shit."
3. The original DAOC designer is the owner of the company. So if you have problems with that, then do not play DAOC, Warhammer, or bitch about it because it is not as though he is going to step down. Now, the owner after release has less to do with either game. In fact I know for the past year and probably more like 3, Mark has had almost nothing to do with the design of DAOC. Some of the DAOC developers are going to work on Warhammer. Most of them are staying with DAOC.
4. I think it is the idiocy of mmorpg players to think that any mmorpg is going to be balanced. The only way to have balance is to all have the same classes. Even then, people will complain about A being better than B class, so you end up with only having 1 class to play. To those players I say go play a FPS. It is impossible to balance a game with PvP content and unique classes. This is not to say that there are not better casses of balance that could be had. As the game develops things will be added. Because few people will ever "test" games out on the test servers, it really makes the live patches somewhat a test. As bugs are found and new player styles come about then more changes are needed. This means that unbalances come about. This will mean changes. Sometimes additions to other classes, sometimes nerfs. That is a fact of playing an mmorpg. Until you have put out a game with 44 different classes you should really cut the developers some slack.
5. Mids problem is Mid players. Mid's population used to be #2. It fell to #3 because of the community, or lack of community in the Mid players. There are things over time that have contributed to this from a design decision as well. The fact that there is no longer realm loyality in the game, and over the years "leet" players in 8 man groups roaming around have really destroyed a huge part of RvR. The problem with Mid is that it is the realm highest in proportion with players that like the 8 man group style. That puts off the majority of the players base. It also makes you do worse in RvR because of lack of zergs.
6. If you think that Hib classes are so easy to play, then go level one solo on a ToA server. See how easy it is to play a bainshee with no useable form of CC. Where most of your specline spells are worthless in PvE leveling without a good group. See how long you can live as an animist will all of the argo you pull. Play a VW and see how pointless and uneeded your class is. Realize about how stupid it is that specing in Mentalism as a Mentalist is stupid and unplayable. Maybe play an Eld and see how you are the worst of the bolt casters. Playing a Hib is not easy mode.
BTW what server are you on?
Desolation Guild Leader
*shrug*
PvP disagreement.
I am sorry, but I can't even put my mind on this topic...I honestly don't care for the aspect of the PvP of any game and when games as DAoC put the best rewards in the PvP zones, they just make sure to lose the "carebears" like me.
Warhammer is not on my top list of "going to try MMOs" as it was, I dislike many choices they made. But I didn't remove it, I am still listening.
Will PvP be balanced is certainly not on the list of considerations I actually care about Warhammer, seeing units of mixed humans/elves is on that list on the other hand.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Warhammer is meant to be an RvR game. I am sure there will be other server types eventually, but I doubt it will be that way at launch. Warhammer will probably be even less your game since you will be able to "win" by capturing the enemy capital.
I'm not going to buy this game for the following reasons.
1- it's Mythic who's designing it.
2- it's fully instanced as i heared ( maybe i heared wrong please someone confirm this for me )
3- mythic WILL overpower the faction they play.
4- mythic never learns from their mistakes.
5- mythic don't know anything about balancing factions, or realms, or teams call em whatever.
6- daoc sucks, in it's current state, well the battlegrounds are fun though.
2) Completely false.
3) LOL, I laugh every time I see this crock... All 3 realms in DAoC have had their time on top over the years, I guess that means the Mythic staff must be rerolling toons every so often just for the hell of it...
4) Obviously you have no clue what you're talking about... And you've obviously not read ANY patch notes lately. I don't even really play DAoC actively right now but even I can see that they do indeed learn from their mistakes and listen to their customers. Look at all the ToA changes that have gone in not too long ago, etc.
5) Show me a game with even remotely as diverse of a class selection out there. Sure, it's easy to balance a game when you just give both sides the exact same classes and powers and abilities and such... Show me another game out there with 44 different classes that are all balanced. I for one thing that overall, on the macro level, DAoC is balanced pretty damn well all things considered. It is balanced on the realm level, not the class level. Is it perfect? No, but IMO there isn't a single game on the market that is "perfectly balanced".
6) Meh, purely opinion, not going to argue with you about your opinion, as the saying goes, much like that certain body part, you're entitled to it regardless of how much it stinks.
Desolation Guild Leader
To the OP.
First, I'm not sure exactly what the point of a post like this is. To proclaim yourself better than those who will play it? You get attention? Start a conversation to get opposing opinions to change your mind (highly unlikely)?
I'm always amazed at total judgement being passed before even real info has been released.
You're entitled to your opinion of course so don't think I'm saying you shouldn't but, and this is important, why the hell did you post this here? Why not post it in the Warhammer forums?
As to the commentary about Mythic in general. From what I've seen, Mythic has always listened to players. Is Mythic perfect? No, of course not, but they are a hell of a lot better than say... SOE.
The last several patches have been all about players issues with the game. The trend is still happening too. The next several patches are to address even more player issues and wants.
So I think that comment is pretty unfounded.
I can't really add more to the conversation on WAR than what JtHM has already stated.
Pfft
How have people fallen for the myth that Mythic overpowers the realm that they play in?
The development team remaining on DAoC is probably a skeleton crew at best by now. No way they are going to make major revisions to classes at this point. DAoC has run its' course and is on cruise control now. Ride it out until another game comes along, bitching about OP'd hibs is wasted breath at this point.
Listening to the customers is one thing, implementing every hot-headed idea they post after getting rolled by X class is another thing altogether, and bad at that. Hopefully Mythic have learned from DAoC, they made a lot of mistakes. But, they got SO much of that game right, that I have to give them the benefit of the doubt on Warhammer. I'll be there on release day.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Man I wish I had been on when this bandwagon started but I'll put in my 2 cents now.
1st off this post is in the wrong forum. If you want to diss warhammer then go to the warhammer forums. This is the dark age forum.
Posted by Oliverc4
When someone is looking forward to playing this game created by the original team of DAoC and expecting the same or much more fun like DAoC, I have something in mind that stops me from choosing this game.
Why?
1. Mythics doesn't listen to players' complaints for years about the overpowered Hibernia and is still not willing to nerf the OP hib classes in view of the unbalanced issues.
2. Mythics told people that they play their games too. So I strongly believe that they are going to create an overpowered Realm (of course only known by themselves at first) for them to play. A year or less pass, when players from the other realms find that the Hib-like realm is overpowered and yells for nerfs, Mythics will not do so because that is the realm they are playing. Love will only go to Mythics' realm. As a result, most people gone for this realm.
3. Unless they fire the original DAoC Designer who has been making final decisions on the unbalanced issues to be adjusted or not, the new game design will once again lead to a similar situation like DAoC - realm C underpopulated (people already tried realm A and B, so just spare some time to minor play in C); realm A overpopulated (it is the main story line so most people choose to play it, and also because aged players love original things which would make them think 'oh right'); realm B overpopulated because their classes are on easy mode which requires not much skill to stun nuke people (so as to make themselves having something to write in VN board and defend that their realm is not overpowered). And then DAoC2 appears.
(think of the way that A-Alb, B-Hib, C-Mid)
4. Perhaps, Mythics will not design a perfectly balanced MMORPG (look at DAoC), otherwise there will not be enough buyers for their next online games (eg. IAMBAINSHEE 2010 or STUNNUKEYOU 2020) because there already exists a perfect balanced game.
In fact, #2 is the main reason that I am concerned.
So, will you try Warhammer 2007?
______________________________________________________________________________________
1. You stated that mythic never listen to players complaint. They do. Just like any other mmo company. Every player complains. From every realm. Marc Jacobs (one of the Dev's for Warhammer) stated "the developers of any MMO are always on the losing end no matter what they do. People will complain no matter what is given to them and all the Dev can do is write more code and brave the storm". Lets take the recent changes that DAOC has made. Warriors were being schooled in RVR and were finding it hard to join PvE groups unless a meat shield was abslutely needed. So they fixed them and made them even tougher against casters and rogues and gave them more uses in PvE. Now the stealthers yell because they were having a hard time killing caster what with concentration and speed casting and the likes so mythics revamps them a little and now they're happy. I'll give ya 3 guesses who's gonna yell next.....the casters. Now they'll be getting beat back and they'll start crying. It never ends. Never think the grass is greener on the other side or you may win a lucky day to be a Dev and be on the bottom of the dump pile.
2. Yes mythic plays they're own game. And if you look in the right place you will also see that they don't play a single 'favored' realm. The Dev's are across the board. When I started this game it wasn't the hibs that were the supossed golden child of mythic, it was the albs. You couldn't fart sideways without hitting an alb so naturally they were mythics favored according to everyone else. When a realm is OP it's not the Dev's, its the player community.
3. Julian mentioned good on this. No MMO will EVER be balanced. EVER. If you want balanced go play Quake or Halo or whatever 3rd person shooter is out there where everyone has the same stats, same weapons, etc.
4. Just like #3. If you can tell us a MMO that is balanced maybe we could make this a worthwhile argument.
Oh yeah, read the patch notes. Your OP classes that you're griping about have been nerfed. Noone seems to notice this as they hitting the continue button 50 times over trying to just get into the game
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Originally posted by Anofalye
*shrug*
PvP disagreement.
I am sorry, but I can't even put my mind on this topic...I honestly don't care for the aspect of the PvP of any game and when games as DAoC put the best rewards in the PvP zones, they just make sure to lose the "carebears" like me.
Warhammer is not on my top list of "going to try MMOs" as it was, I dislike many choices they made. But I didn't remove it, I am still listening.
Will PvP be balanced is certainly not on the list of considerations I actually care about Warhammer, seeing units of mixed humans/elves is on that list on the other hand.
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To Anofalye theres nothing wrong with being a 'carebear'. One of the options that I like about DAOC is that if you don't want to PvP, you don't have to. And I personally don't believe that the best rewards come from PvP'n. I've made a couple of characters who were quite sufficent at just 2L5 (and thats not hard to get) but my real strengths came from catacombs and TOA.
To keep busy you have quests from level 1 to 50, most of those require a small group so you get that sense of teamplay and they give out some rather nice items. Theres instances if your bored and wanna just grind real quick. Dozens of maps to explore. Then you go to TOA and can do artifact raids or ML (although the master levels can be rather unamusing when there 100+ peeps on it and everything dies before you get a second swing in). One of my favorites was trophy hunting (by the way Oliverc4, Midgard has the most trophies of all 3 realms. Theres favoritism right?). And at the end of the day when you've collected items from all this if you have a crafter (weapon or armor/tailor) or know one then they can salvage all that and either give you the materials or hinge it but either way you end up making tons of money (usually a TOA sword goes for 4-15gp but when you salvage and sell the materials you can get up to about 200gp and when you hinge its even more).
Anyways I'm sidetracking. I've been playing eve lately and one thing that I like about DAOC over eve is that if you don't want to rvr you don't have to. Theres nothing more annoying than when I'm minding my own business mining in 0.7 space and a pirate comes in and blows me out of the sky for no reason at all. Call me a carebear if ya want, I don't care. When I want to take someone out I will on my own time and when I wanna do my own thing I will. And I'll have fun doing it.
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Originally Posted by ob1sr
I'm not going to buy this game for the following reasons.
1- it's Mythic who's designing it.
2- it's fully instanced as i heared ( maybe i heared wrong please someone confirm this for me )
3- mythic WILL overpower the faction they play.
4- mythic never learns from their mistakes.
5- mythic don't know anything about balancing factions, or realms, or teams call em whatever.
6- daoc sucks, in it's current state, well the battlegrounds are fun though.
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Last poster to bash.
1. Theres really no right or wrong to this answer. You apparantly dont like mythic and thats your thing.
2. By no means is warhammer going to be instanced. Alot of people actually prefer the challenges of pve and this would kill off a huge fanbase.
3. Again mythic doesn't choose a golden child, the fanbase is and my prediction will be chaos/dark elves. Why? Cause the kids now-a-days think it's the coolest thing to play a evil character and be mr bad. But you know what? Im prepared for it and I will by no means blame the company. They do what they can to put up with the whining of each mentally challenged player who gets theyre panties in a knot because player B 'owned' them in battle.
4. Now lets think about this comment from a economical view. If mythic never 'learned' from theyre mistakes then they're player base would drop. Games Workshop would look at these factors and would have never signed a contract with mythic because the GW would also lose money in this deal. Thats why they dropped sega. You can argue that the fanbase in DAOC is dropping but you gotta think about this.....there are new MMO's that come out each year. Us MMO players are attracted to them like moths to a flame. Each time a game comes out the population of all other games drop for a while and eventually come back up (although not as high as when it first dropped. Those are the player who like theyre new shiny object)
5. Again with the balancing. MMO's CANNOT BE BALANCED. If you don't believe me then we'll send this myth to mythbusters and straighten this all up. When you (player A) are ruling on the battleground or PvE then you will feel that everything is right but when Player B comes along and whoops you time and time again then he is obviously OP and things aren't balanced. Most players have this childlike mentality.
6. Again can't really argue on this point. In your opinion DAOC sucks. Some days I hate it too but I'm coming back to it anyways because I miss it. And I'll most likely stay here until W.A.R. comes out
hilarious.
Consider that when the game was released, Hybernia was considered grossly underpowered while Midgard was considered too overpowered.
And guess what? even then there were people yelling "Mythic play midgard! nerf midgard!" and so on.
It seems it has not changed a bit, people will always complain and a perfect balance will prolly never be achieved.
Oh wait! it must be because all Mythic Devs stopped playing Midgard and went to Hybernia. yeah! right on! /sarcasm
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I agree there have been a few imbalances in the game and these imbalances were made apparent by those taking advantage of them. Speaking as a software developer myself sometimes limitations in the software make the "fixing" of some exploits difficult. Numerous changes have been suggested to some specific classes but it is not as simple as some would believe to implement them. Let's take one specific example, make Animist shrooms die when their caster dies.
Argument: Bone Dancer pets die when the caster is killed.
Problem: At most a Bone Dancer will have 4 pets, an animist can have many more pets thus creating a very large list of pets to kill when the caster dies. Also, when the Bone Dancers main pet dies the other pets die as well.
BD: Caster dies: 1 kill -> Kill main pet: 3kills-> kill remaining pets
Animist: Caster dies: 20 kills -> Kill turrets.
Given that they haven't implemented this code yet I'm sure there are some restrictions on how they can code these kill procedures. Keeping track of 20 turrets is much larger than keeping track of one pet.
Does your guild have a website yet? Find out how easy it is to get one.
BDs and Animists are 2 completely different types of classes. Animists are considered a "petspam" class. They have "Fire & Forget" pets, same as the Theurgist in Albion to a certain extent. BDs are a standard Pet Class, controllable pets, etc. They operate completely differently and thats why the pet deaths are handled differently, etc. Midgard doesn't have a true "Petspam" class, but does have a petspam-like abilitiy on 2 non-pet classes, the Thane and Valk.
Desolation Guild Leader
Erm.... OKAAAAY first of all your primary assumption is wrong. I've played all 3 realms. Hib isn't any more powerful than any other realm. Sorry, please move along. That's speaking as someone who has 50's in every realm and has played RVR extensively in all 3.
MMMM yet another false assumption
Sorry you're wrong. EVERY DEV of every game ever written PLAYS THEIR GAME. If you believe otherwise you are truely stupid.
I see we still haven't gotten rid of your original misconception, upon which all your arguements are based. No 1 realm in DAOC is overpowered. There are a few "overpowered" classes in each realm in 1 on 1 PVP but the game is designed around RVR and the *realms* are balanced with each other. Why do I say? Because I've played all 3. Also a real fast look at the realm status indicators on the Herald will prove your statement to be total bunk. If one realm were overpowered they'd own every server. That just isn't the case so please take your assumptions elsewhere.
Erm... yah ok whatever. Nice attempt at trolling, however.
Erm.... OKAAAAY first of all your primary assumption is wrong. I've played all 3 realms. Hib isn't any more powerful than any other realm. Sorry, please move along. That's speaking as someone who has 50's in every realm and has played RVR extensively in all 3.
MMMM yet another false assumption
Sorry you're wrong. EVERY DEV of every game ever written PLAYS THEIR GAME. If you believe otherwise you are truely stupid.
I see we still haven't gotten rid of your original misconception, upon which all your arguements are based. No 1 realm in DAOC is overpowered. There are a few "overpowered" classes in each realm in 1 on 1 PVP but the game is designed around RVR and the *realms* are balanced with each other. Why do I say? Because I've played all 3. Also a real fast look at the realm status indicators on the Herald will prove your statement to be total bunk. If one realm were overpowered they'd own every server. That just isn't the case so please take your assumptions elsewhere.
Erm... yah ok whatever. Nice attempt at trolling, however.
Will I try it? Of course. Will I pay for it? Sure, if it is worth my money.
Silly Rabbi... kicks are for trids!
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
First of all, each realm has had its time in the sun and time shuveling the shit house.
I remember when Midgard was tearing up the frontier. man we used to go out and take all of hibs keeps when they didn't have a single relic just to piss em off. Now it seems midgard can't catch a break.
The problem/issue is that players find different tools to utilize to thier max at different points, this causes imbalances.
Berserkers Pre 1.62
Stungard
Team Wizzy
ManaChanter
Animist
Smite Cleric in the early game
Archers before the nerfs they got
Shadowblades Pre 1.62
Dragonfang
Stackable Heal Fonts
Melee Invul Necro's camping DF with Spreadheal bots
Necro casting through walls
I could go on all day long, but I think you get the point. Each realm has had things they could exploit to wtfpwnzor, hell I remember when Bladeturns were being bitched about, not days nobody complains about PBT.
The game evovles and changes, every game does. Either evovle with it or get left behind trying pwn with melee when magic is the new FOTM.
If you ask me, DAoC has been like a Wheel. With each realm getting a chance at the zenith of the circle and at the bottum.
Mythic's office:
Guy #1: I'm bored
Guy #2: So am i
Guy #1: Hey, wanna create an MMORPG, make an overpowered faction(That only we, know off, yeah!), and pwn those damn newbs?
Guy #2: ROCK ON!!
in a short simple response .... YES i will be playing warhammer online. why yo uask? because i've been playing the table top for a good ammount of years now.. its not just mythic ... sorry bud but i will be playing this game : /
www.roxstudiodesigns.com
I would dissagree with EVE online being a "extremely successful" game for a long period of time. They only recently broke 100k users. Up till this past summer they only had about 60,000 users. Successful, to be sure... but extremely successful? Not really. Now that they're up over 100,000 users you could start to make the arguement that they've become extremely successful but being that they're the only really decent Sci-Fi game on the market kind of explains their recent climb. SWG went to hell in a handbasket last november. Oddly that directly coincides with EVE's recent doubling in subscriber numbers. So calling EVE an extremely successful MMO is just a bit of a reach. AC had more subs than them for many years
As far as SWG goes? Until it's recent implosion due to collosally bad management decisions SWG was the #8 game on the MMO Market. While a lot of people loved to hate SWG it still kept a very steady playerbase of over 250,000 users for nearly 3 years and subscriber numbers were growing when it was changed... One could argue that had the NGE not occurred it would still be growing, in fact. NGE was the best thing ever to happen to EVE online
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
The problem/issue is that players find different tools to utilize to thier max at different points, this causes imbalances.
Berserkers Pre 1.62
Stungard
Team Wizzy
ManaChanter
Animist
Smite Cleric in the early game
Archers before the nerfs they got
Shadowblades Pre 1.62
Dragonfang
Stackable Heal Fonts
Melee Invul Necro's camping DF with Spreadheal bots
Necro casting through walls
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I've fought Team wizzy in both NF and Molvik. Not a nice guy who controls 8 toons. And I don't know if he's the same dude with team animist but that was mean too.....all the way until somebody got the bright idea to piss off the giant by bledmeer faste and then suicide into the shrooms. Never seen so many ani's fly....