I tend to agree that MMO tech is getting to the point of Sandboxes being legitimate options rather than gimmicks. I find sandboxes can implement additional content naturally rather than in tiers, effectively resetting the game experience. Continually evolving adventure appeals to me more than adventure, reset, adventure, repeat.
I say this like a broken record but horizontal progression can give the gaming world challenge. In fact you would probably need to have challenge to make differences in areas meaningful.
You have areas that are based on difficulty and you know adventuring in a hard area takes skill. For example you could have easy, medium, hard, group required, raid required areas.
Horizontal progression does have some vertical progression. It's just the character is baseline. Think of it as a fighting game where you start out with 4 moves and advancement unlocks those fighting moves. Your not getting more life. You just get more moves.
Horizontal progression is a step backwards in challenge management, actually.
A vertical progression game has a set of challenges of difficulty 1-10, and a set of progression states of power level 1-10. When you're power level 5, you can choose to do a difficulty 8 task and increase the difficulty for yourself (or you can choose a difficulty 3 task if you want something easy).
A horizontal progression game has all the same challenges of difficulty 5, and just one power level 5. So if that baseline difficulty isn't challenging to you then the entire game lacks enough challenge for you.
So it's literally built into vertical progression games to provide at least a minimal amount of difficulty selection, while it's not in horizontal progression -- horizontal progression is a step backwards in terms of difficulty controls. Even though vertical progression games often don't provide sufficient control over your difficulty, at least they provide some inherent control over the challenge you face.
What?! No game is inherently more challenging.
Most themepark games have no change in challenge because the enemies are scaled towards you so the lowest common denominator can progress. A very small percentage of content has any challenge like raids.
Horizontal progression is no different than vertical progression in how you design challenge. You just don't scale for each level.
So If i created an area with elite mobs it will be hard vertical or horizontal progression. With horizontal it will remain hard to older players even after an expansion. In a vertical progression MMORPG you will out level "difficult" content. At the same time it is accessible to newer characters in a horizontal game. It's an advantage of not having power plateaus.
Most themepark games have no change in challenge because the enemies are scaled towards you so the lowest common denominator can progress. A very small percentage of content has any challenge like raids.
Horizontal progression is no different than vertical progression in how you design challenge. You just don't scale for each level.
So If i created an area with elite mobs it will be hard vertical or horizontal progression. With horizontal it will remain hard to older players even after an expansion. In a vertical progression MMORPG you will out level "difficult" content. At the same time it is accessible to newer characters in a horizontal game. It's an advantage of not having power plateaus.
What are you even trying to say with that opening line?
Some games definitely are harder than others.
A game where you are level 5 fighting level 10 offers objectively more challenge than a game where EVERYTHING is level 5. (The former game being vertical progression; the latter being horizontal.)
It's only when you ditch the topic of horizontal/vertical progression and basically say "you add challenge by adding challenge" that you start to make sense. Yes, when you add challenge you add challenge. But when it comes to horizontal progression, that's a reduction in the amount of hard challenges that can exist in a game.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Personally I think that a sandbox that incorporated challenging themepark content (Small group dungeons and raids) would be far more successful than a challenging themepark.
As a sandbox player great, challenging, small/large group PvE content is not my primary concern but if done well it can be extremely enjoyable. Certainly it's presence would increase my interest in a good sandbox title even further.
I would love a small group dungeons based on the premise "Some of these are easy, some of these are difficult, and some of these are so difficult we do not expect 95% of the player base will ever successfully complete it but it will be a serious accomplishment if you do." And have that challenge based on player skill and team coordination rather than how long you are willing to spend grinding gearscore.
When you tell the people who lobbied for the removal of skill trees and who could probably be effectively replaced by bots that just run through rotations "...some of these are so difficult we do not expect 95% of the player base will ever successfully complete it..." there will be an uproar.
When you tell that to people who play games so complex that even as a veteran player you are still constantly researching different aspects of the game and learning things daily, they're going to get excited.
So my question to you, is do you want a challenging themepark, or challenging themepark content? Because if you want the latter, you probably stand a better chance of seeing it in a sandbox.
One can also say the same thing about monster AI. Do you REALLY want good monster AI? Do you want monsters breaking from combat to get reinforcements? Do you want warning bells that bring the whole zone down upon your party? Do you want them focusing down the easiest to kill members of your party?
YES, YES and YES
IMHO this is just not possible in an MMORPG unless it is instanced, human nature being what it is.
Well you say "YES", but player characters have been providing all of those same mentioned capabilities and tactics, and many hate "PVP" because, well, those other players beat them badly.
What makes NPC's desireable is they are predictable, therefore easily beaten once the pattern is figured out. If they become unpredictable like player characters, will people really want them in their games?
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Most themepark games have no change in challenge because the enemies are scaled towards you so the lowest common denominator can progress. A very small percentage of content has any challenge like raids.
Horizontal progression is no different than vertical progression in how you design challenge. You just don't scale for each level.
So If i created an area with elite mobs it will be hard vertical or horizontal progression. With horizontal it will remain hard to older players even after an expansion. In a vertical progression MMORPG you will out level "difficult" content. At the same time it is accessible to newer characters in a horizontal game. It's an advantage of not having power plateaus.
What are you even trying to say with that opening line?
Some games definitely are harder than others.
A game where you are level 5 fighting level 10 offers objectively more challenge than a game where EVERYTHING is level 5. (The former game being vertical progression; the latter being horizontal.)
It's only when you ditch the topic of horizontal/vertical progression and basically say "you add challenge by adding challenge" that you start to make sense. Yes, when you add challenge you add challenge. But when it comes to horizontal progression, that's a reduction in the amount of hard challenges that can exist in a game.
What are you talking about. You have backwards thinking. Vertical progression is about eliminating challenge because you progress beyond it. It's the whole purpose. In general as I stated to allow all players to progress challenge as to be baseline ironically. You have pools for leveling in each range. Each is carefully scaled so the lowest denominator can advance. If you level beyond that you will not have any challenge.
Yes, challenge is challenge it doesn't matter it scales no matter the progression. To say there is a reduction is false. Hard is hard and easy is easy no matter the level or progression. You still run the same RPG ideals.
One can also say the same thing about monster AI. Do you REALLY want good monster AI? Do you want monsters breaking from combat to get reinforcements? Do you want warning bells that bring the whole zone down upon your party? Do you want them focusing down the easiest to kill members of your party?
YES, YES and YES
IMHO this is just not possible in an MMORPG unless it is instanced, human nature being what it is.
Well you say "YES", but player characters have been providing all of those same mentioned capabilities and tactics, and many hate "PVP" because, well, those other players beat them badly.
What makes NPC's desireable is they are predictable, therefore easily beaten once the pattern is figured out. If they become unpredictable like player characters, will people really want them in their games?
My guess is no, not really.
The biggest turnoff personally for me concerning PvP, is not the challenge... It's peoples behavior.
People as a whole seem take competition in (for fun) games, much too seriously. AI on the other hand does not.
The counter-balance comes from the time sink the game will represent as the challenge you'll face instead of it being on the actual gameplay difficulty. The usual really.
Most themepark games have no change in challenge because the enemies are scaled towards you so the lowest common denominator can progress. A very small percentage of content has any challenge like raids.
Horizontal progression is no different than vertical progression in how you design challenge. You just don't scale for each level.
So If i created an area with elite mobs it will be hard vertical or horizontal progression. With horizontal it will remain hard to older players even after an expansion. In a vertical progression MMORPG you will out level "difficult" content. At the same time it is accessible to newer characters in a horizontal game. It's an advantage of not having power plateaus.
What are you even trying to say with that opening line?
Some games definitely are harder than others.
A game where you are level 5 fighting level 10 offers objectively more challenge than a game where EVERYTHING is level 5. (The former game being vertical progression; the latter being horizontal.)
It's only when you ditch the topic of horizontal/vertical progression and basically say "you add challenge by adding challenge" that you start to make sense. Yes, when you add challenge you add challenge. But when it comes to horizontal progression, that's a reduction in the amount of hard challenges that can exist in a game.
Progression mechanics have no effect on challenge and I agree with @Vermillion_Raventhal that, in general, vertical progression reduces the challenge (but this is down to implementation rather than anything more fundamental).
The sort of challenge you are talking about is simply comparing the players power level to the content. You can do that in both horizontal and vertical progression systems. In horizontal, even though the player's power level remains flat the developers can still create content that is hard for that level or easy for that level, exactly the same as in vertical progression.
In a vertical system, players can beat challenging content by getting better or gaining more power to reduce the difficulty. In a horizontal system, the second option isn't available to them so they can only beat the content by getting better.
Horizontal then has the added bonus that you can never outlevel content - all of it remains viable and challenging content continues to remain challenging. Vertical progression results in 99% of content becoming redundant and trivial by the time you reach endgame.
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What are you talking about. You have backwards thinking. Vertical progression is about eliminating challenge because you progress beyond it. It's the whole purpose. In general as I stated to allow all players to progress challenge as to be baseline ironically. You have pools for leveling in each range. Each is carefully scaled so the lowest denominator can advance. If you level beyond that you will not have any challenge.
Yes, challenge is challenge it doesn't matter it scales no matter the progression. To say there is a reduction is false. Hard is hard and easy is easy no matter the level or progression. You still run the same RPG ideals.
Are my posts too long for you to understand?
You're level 10. Which monster will be harder to beat: a level 10 or a level 110?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
What are you talking about. You have backwards thinking. Vertical progression is about eliminating challenge because you progress beyond it. It's the whole purpose. In general as I stated to allow all players to progress challenge as to be baseline ironically. You have pools for leveling in each range. Each is carefully scaled so the lowest denominator can advance. If you level beyond that you will not have any challenge.
Yes, challenge is challenge it doesn't matter it scales no matter the progression. To say there is a reduction is false. Hard is hard and easy is easy no matter the level or progression. You still run the same RPG ideals.
Are my posts too long for you to understand?
You're level 10. Which monster will be harder to beat: a level 10 or a level 110?
Thats not challenge. That is gated content. Challege means you are challenged. Not impossible.
Wildstar failed not because of a themepark issue. It has many issues. Most people just couldn't get past the cartoon-like nature of the game. The theme was actually pretty cool.
I am looking for fun. That is different to different people. Frankly, I'm looking for community and some fun fast-paced group stuff not so much of a detailed nit-picky stuff. That's just me. EVE was too slow for me. I lost interest...FAST. Doesn't mean it's a bad game. Just not for me. So different strokes for different folks. I'm just waiting for some games coming down the pipeline. Many of the releases this year were not interesting to me or a disappointment. Besides, life throws enough challenges my way.
I also think MMOs should have 2 different serversets, an easy with nerfed drops and a harder with better. That way you can get both super casuals who just want an easy time and more experienced players who want things more difficult. It isn't really that hard to implement even if it adds a bit to the PvE balance. But you would get more players that way (as long as people who want it easy actually admit it).
I think this is a great idea. I think you wouldn't even need "nerfed" drops, you'd just need to give the hardcore servers some bragging rights like titles, emotes and achievements. Similarly, I actually would love to see "permadeath" MMO servers that'd borrow a page out of Path of Exiles book - once you die your character gets moved to a normal server.
Nah, the risk Vs Reward is important, at least for the rarer drops. Harder difficulty should mean that those rare things drop more often since it is both faster and simpler to do the same dungeon/raid/whatever on the easy server.
A permadeath server is interesting but I think you will need mechanics that makes you respawn if your ping get a huge hit during what leads up to your death. Not people that yank out there ethernet cable as they die but people who actually lags to death. Solve that and we can talk, otherwise will the thing just lead to people rage-quitting.
I also think MMOs should have 2 different serversets, an easy with nerfed drops and a harder with better. That way you can get both super casuals who just want an easy time and more experienced players who want things more difficult. It isn't really that hard to implement even if it adds a bit to the PvE balance. But you would get more players that way (as long as people who want it easy actually admit it).
I think this is a great idea. I think you wouldn't even need "nerfed" drops, you'd just need to give the hardcore servers some bragging rights like titles, emotes and achievements. Similarly, I actually would love to see "permadeath" MMO servers that'd borrow a page out of Path of Exiles book - once you die your character gets moved to a normal server.
Nah, the risk Vs Reward is important, at least for the rarer drops. Harder difficulty should mean that those rare things drop more often since it is both faster and simpler to do the same dungeon/raid/whatever on the easy server.
A permadeath server is interesting but I think you will need mechanics that makes you respawn if your ping get a huge hit during what leads up to your death. Not people that yank out there ethernet cable as they die but people who actually lags to death. Solve that and we can talk, otherwise will the thing just lead to people rage-quitting.
There really isn't much in the risk factor these days. Players complain about consequences and devs responded.
That isn't to say there aren't people asking for better rewards for "higher risk" (::wink wink::). Most of these are min-maxers who aren't actually taking more risk but are schemers trying to get more stuff for no extra cost.
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Thats not challenge. That is gated content. Challege means you are challenged. Not impossible.
Answer the question. What is easier: the level 10 mob or the level 110?
The Level concept is simple enough so it works great for tabletops. It also gives the player a very straight forward and unmistakable sense of progression.
The level 10 mob is definitely easier. But for what reason?
Adding progressively harder combat dynamics is adding more challenge. Adding larger modifiers is just scaling, it's lazy and it's uninspired.
Thats not challenge. That is gated content. Challege means you are challenged. Not impossible.
Answer the question. What is easier: the level 10 mob or the level 110?
The Level concept is simple enough and works great for tabletops. It also gives the player a very straight forward and unmistakable sense of progression.
The level 10 mob is definitely easier. But for what reason?
Adding progressively harder combat dynamics is adding more challenge. Adding larger modifiers is just scaling, its lazy and it's uninspired.
Adding modifiers can increase the challenge. Think a shorter rage timer for dps/hps checks. But I also get your point and the spirit of it. If all the challenge a game offers is scaling numbers then it's lazy, uninspired, and probably boring as all get out.
Thanks for the correction in terminology.
When it comes to a game or a genre that is inspired to have longevity (years/decades) I just find the leveling system to be so flawed and antiquated. It might be that our human nature limits what we can do. People seem to need a constant feeling of progression and I can see the difficulty in providing it in a way that is meaningful and at the same time keeps content relevant.
What is hard or easy can be subjective because different players consider different things challenging. If you ask me to jump through various damage indicators jump left then right and so on like in Wildstar while healing I would not be able to do it which was one of the reasons I quit the game. But players like my son find it easy as they are very good at fps and playing shooters make them very adapt at this type of combat.
However if you ask me to slowly navigate a terrain even at snail's pace and fight my way through while engaged in a group like a dungeon or even outdoors where team work is essential and every one must adapt fast on the role but not movement but fast about which spell to cast or which skill to use then I can do that well. I can decide which spell or skill is useful and I can think fast on my feet while staying still without the added WASD movement. Games like City of Heroes/Villains that had us playing hybrids and having a mixture of skills and knowing what to use at the right time often meant the success.
So too when you are required to train up skills and spend a lot of time doing mundane tasks but that is not considered hard just tedious. Is dying and then having to go back for your corpse considered hard or tedious. Is walking long distances with no easy travel hard or just tedious. It depends on a player's point of view.
Thats not challenge. That is gated content. Challege means you are challenged. Not impossible.
Answer the question. What is easier: the level 10 mob or the level 110?
It's irrelevant because it's gated. It's not hard or a challenge. Its impossible. You can also do the same thing in horizontal progression by requiring an item. For example you have a dragon and require fire cloaks to defeat it. Without the cloaks you die instantly. The results are the same. It's gated.
The Level concept is simple enough so it works great for tabletops. It also gives the player a very straight forward and unmistakable sense of progression.
The level 10 mob is definitely easier. But for what reason?
Adding progressively harder combat dynamics is adding more challenge. Adding larger modifiers is just scaling, it's lazy and it's uninspired.
Er, right, and level is simple enough that it works great in videogames too. Hopefully nobody here is trying to argue that it hasn't worked great...right?
The level 10 mob is easier so that progression has meaning, which passively enables the player to customize their difficulty to a degree. That's been lost with WOW's level 100-110 experience where you can't simply dive into the more challenging content by skipping to the next zone early. Instead all content 100-110 is auto-scaled which ends up making it uniformly difficult, which ends up being too easy for many and not providing a means by which you could tackle harder content and actually advance faster.
Harder content is harder content, whether the mob is scaled or not.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You realize that has nothing itself to do with the progression model and entirely to do with the way the content is implemented to offer challenge or not, right?
As per your own example just now, a vertical progression game that auto-scales it's content offers only one flat level of challenge. However there are other games like STO which offer scaling content with a difficulty option which lets you make the content easier or harder alongside that scaling.
This is also where horizontal type games can just as easily provide differentiated scales in challenge. Even if you say no difficulty slider, you still have the ability to do things like make different mob groupings that are inherently harder than others, or even plunk down entire zones, dungeons, or other places full of units which are more challenging to beat.
The difficulty of these models and challenge they provide is not inherently different, that only comes from how a designer wishes to implement challenge into their game beyond a baseline.
The Level concept is simple enough so it works great for tabletops. It also gives the player a very straight forward and unmistakable sense of progression.
The level 10 mob is definitely easier. But for what reason?
Adding progressively harder combat dynamics is adding more challenge. Adding larger modifiers is just scaling, it's lazy and it's uninspired.
Er, right, and level is simple enough that it works great in videogames too. Hopefully nobody here is trying to argue that it hasn't worked great...right?
The level 10 mob is easier so that progression has meaning, which passively enables the player to customize their difficulty to a degree. That's been lost with WOW's level 100-110 experience where you can't simply dive into the more challenging content by skipping to the next zone early. Instead all content 100-110 is auto-scaled which ends up making it uniformly difficult, which ends up being too easy for many and not providing a means by which you could tackle harder content and actually advance faster.
Harder content is harder content, whether the mob is scaled or not.
I think the question "which is harder" is being skimmed.
Your character is level 10 vs level 10 mob Your character is level 110 vs a level 110 mob
Which is more challenging depends on the nature of the mob, not the level, ASSUMING YOU ARE AN EQUAL LEVEL AS THE MOB.
Yes, if you are level 9 and the mob is level 10, it should be harder assuming stat scaling. That type of challenge I like as well.
But I also like challenges that a challenging because of the nature of skills, attacks, positioning, etc that you have to deal with. These need not be mutually exclusive.
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Most themepark games have no change in challenge because the enemies are scaled towards you so the lowest common denominator can progress. A very small percentage of content has any challenge like raids.
Horizontal progression is no different than vertical progression in how you design challenge. You just don't scale for each level.
So If i created an area with elite mobs it will be hard vertical or horizontal progression. With horizontal it will remain hard to older players even after an expansion. In a vertical progression MMORPG you will out level "difficult" content. At the same time it is accessible to newer characters in a horizontal game. It's an advantage of not having power plateaus.
- Some games definitely are harder than others.
- A game where you are level 5 fighting level 10 offers objectively more challenge than a game where EVERYTHING is level 5. (The former game being vertical progression; the latter being horizontal.)
It's only when you ditch the topic of horizontal/vertical progression and basically say "you add challenge by adding challenge" that you start to make sense. Yes, when you add challenge you add challenge. But when it comes to horizontal progression, that's a reduction in the amount of hard challenges that can exist in a game."What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As a sandbox player great, challenging, small/large group PvE content is not my primary concern but if done well it can be extremely enjoyable. Certainly it's presence would increase my interest in a good sandbox title even further.
I would love a small group dungeons based on the premise "Some of these are easy, some of these are difficult, and some of these are so difficult we do not expect 95% of the player base will ever successfully complete it but it will be a serious accomplishment if you do." And have that challenge based on player skill and team coordination rather than how long you are willing to spend grinding gearscore.
When you tell the people who lobbied for the removal of skill trees and who could probably be effectively replaced by bots that just run through rotations "...some of these are so difficult we do not expect 95% of the player base will ever successfully complete it..." there will be an uproar.
When you tell that to people who play games so complex that even as a veteran player you are still constantly researching different aspects of the game and learning things daily, they're going to get excited.
So my question to you, is do you want a challenging themepark, or challenging themepark content? Because if you want the latter, you probably stand a better chance of seeing it in a sandbox.
What makes NPC's desireable is they are predictable, therefore easily beaten once the pattern is figured out. If they become unpredictable like player characters, will people really want them in their games?
My guess is no, not really.
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Yes, challenge is challenge it doesn't matter it scales no matter the progression. To say there is a reduction is false. Hard is hard and easy is easy no matter the level or progression. You still run the same RPG ideals.
People as a whole seem take competition in (for fun) games, much too seriously. AI on the other hand does not.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
raid/dungeon should be harder
and for player who love to lose, pvp is for them
The counter-balance comes from the time sink the game will represent as the challenge you'll face instead of it being on the actual gameplay difficulty. The usual really.
The sort of challenge you are talking about is simply comparing the players power level to the content. You can do that in both horizontal and vertical progression systems. In horizontal, even though the player's power level remains flat the developers can still create content that is hard for that level or easy for that level, exactly the same as in vertical progression.
In a vertical system, players can beat challenging content by getting better or gaining more power to reduce the difficulty. In a horizontal system, the second option isn't available to them so they can only beat the content by getting better.
Horizontal then has the added bonus that you can never outlevel content - all of it remains viable and challenging content continues to remain challenging. Vertical progression results in 99% of content becoming redundant and trivial by the time you reach endgame.
You're level 10. Which monster will be harder to beat: a level 10 or a level 110?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I am looking for fun. That is different to different people. Frankly, I'm looking for community and some fun fast-paced group stuff not so much of a detailed nit-picky stuff. That's just me. EVE was too slow for me. I lost interest...FAST. Doesn't mean it's a bad game. Just not for me. So different strokes for different folks. I'm just waiting for some games coming down the pipeline. Many of the releases this year were not interesting to me or a disappointment. Besides, life throws enough challenges my way.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Bullet sponges are not fun.
A permadeath server is interesting but I think you will need mechanics that makes you respawn if your ping get a huge hit during what leads up to your death. Not people that yank out there ethernet cable as they die but people who actually lags to death. Solve that and we can talk, otherwise will the thing just lead to people rage-quitting.
There really isn't much in the risk factor these days. Players complain about consequences and devs responded.
That isn't to say there aren't people asking for better rewards for "higher risk" (::wink wink::). Most of these are min-maxers who aren't actually taking more risk but are schemers trying to get more stuff for no extra cost.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
The level 10 mob is definitely easier. But for what reason?
Adding progressively harder combat dynamics is adding more challenge. Adding larger modifiers is just scaling, it's lazy and it's uninspired.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
When it comes to a game or a genre that is inspired to have longevity (years/decades) I just find the leveling system to be so flawed and antiquated. It might be that our human nature limits what we can do. People seem to need a constant feeling of progression and I can see the difficulty in providing it in a way that is meaningful and at the same time keeps content relevant.
There certainly are no easy answers
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
However if you ask me to slowly navigate a terrain even at snail's pace and fight my way through while engaged in a group like a dungeon or even outdoors where team work is essential and every one must adapt fast on the role but not movement but fast about which spell to cast or which skill to use then I can do that well. I can decide which spell or skill is useful and I can think fast on my feet while staying still without the added WASD movement. Games like City of Heroes/Villains that had us playing hybrids and having a mixture of skills and knowing what to use at the right time often meant the success.
So too when you are required to train up skills and spend a lot of time doing mundane tasks but that is not considered hard just tedious. Is dying and then having to go back for your corpse considered hard or tedious. Is walking long distances with no easy travel hard or just tedious. It depends on a player's point of view.
The level 10 mob is easier so that progression has meaning, which passively enables the player to customize their difficulty to a degree. That's been lost with WOW's level 100-110 experience where you can't simply dive into the more challenging content by skipping to the next zone early. Instead all content 100-110 is auto-scaled which ends up making it uniformly difficult, which ends up being too easy for many and not providing a means by which you could tackle harder content and actually advance faster.
Harder content is harder content, whether the mob is scaled or not.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
As per your own example just now, a vertical progression game that auto-scales it's content offers only one flat level of challenge. However there are other games like STO which offer scaling content with a difficulty option which lets you make the content easier or harder alongside that scaling.
This is also where horizontal type games can just as easily provide differentiated scales in challenge. Even if you say no difficulty slider, you still have the ability to do things like make different mob groupings that are inherently harder than others, or even plunk down entire zones, dungeons, or other places full of units which are more challenging to beat.
The difficulty of these models and challenge they provide is not inherently different, that only comes from how a designer wishes to implement challenge into their game beyond a baseline.
Your character is level 10 vs level 10 mob
Your character is level 110 vs a level 110 mob
Which is more challenging depends on the nature of the mob, not the level, ASSUMING YOU ARE AN EQUAL LEVEL AS THE MOB.
Yes, if you are level 9 and the mob is level 10, it should be harder assuming stat scaling. That type of challenge I like as well.
But I also like challenges that a challenging because of the nature of skills, attacks, positioning, etc that you have to deal with. These need not be mutually exclusive.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.