This still P2W?

raystantz · November 2016

DMKano said:

Since P2W has no agreed upon definition, and anybody can call anything P2W for ANY reason,

How could anyone possibly answer this question objectively?

Let me be more specific. To be competitive in this game on a reasonable level in PVE/PVP is one REQUIRED to purchase items with real money from an item shop in order to keep up with those who do? In other words, are there items in the game that can be bought with real cash that cannot be gotten in game that gives those players a very big advantage over everyone else? If you CAN earn those items in game, how big of a disparity is there in the amount of time it would take vs. just buying them with real cash? My final point being, I have no interest in playing a game where I cannot just pay a sub fee and get access to everything. I'm fine with little purchases here and there, but once it starts to get to a point where I'm paying MORE than what a sub game costs to play it effectively.. I'm out. That's what I consider "Pay 2 Win."

mgilbrtsn · November 2016

I'm having a very different experience. i just started playing a week or so ago and see a lot if activity. maybe u just picked a bad server. As far as p2w is concerned, i don't know. i'm only 21st and haven't gone to the pearl market yet. we'll see.

raystantz · November 2016

I saw people, but they were doing the same thing as me.. solo grinding.

Phry · November 2016

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

raystantz · November 2016

Phry said:

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

This is more so the answer I was looking for. I never expect to be the BEST PVP player in the game, but I don't want to be getting facerolled by everyone I come in contact with because I didn't spend 1000's of dollars in the item shop. My motto is that if I can't play the game without spending more than a normal sub fee would be per month, then I'm not interested.

Scorchien · November 2016

raystantz said:

Phry said:

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

This is more so the answer I was looking for. I never expect to be the BEST PVP player in the game, but I don't want to be getting facerolled by everyone I come in contact with because I didn't spend 1000's of dollars in the item shop. My motto is that if I can't play the game without spending more than a normal sub fee would be per month, then I'm not interested.

Yea , as far as BDO goes and PvP , if you dont swipe , you gonna get 1 shot ..Your TTK will be .13 seconds

raystantz · November 2016

Scorchien said:

raystantz said:

Phry said:

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

This is more so the answer I was looking for. I never expect to be the BEST PVP player in the game, but I don't want to be getting facerolled by everyone I come in contact with because I didn't spend 1000's of dollars in the item shop. My motto is that if I can't play the game without spending more than a normal sub fee would be per month, then I'm not interested.

Yea , as far as BDO goes and PvP , if you dont swipe , you gonna get 1 shot ..Your TTK will be .13 seconds

Yeah, not interested in that. I don't care how fun the rest of the game is.. if I'm just going to get facerolled by people who blew their entire paycheck on gear and items. That's my definition of P2W. I understand where others are coming from with, "well, what do you want to get out of the game?" and "Not everyone plays the same, or has the same goals." My goal is to not get facerolled by people who dropped loads of cash into their characters.. seems I have the answer to that, so I'll keep looking I suppose. I don't mind spending money, but I'm not spending more than what a sub fee in WoW or equivalent would cost.

Phry · November 2016

raystantz said:

Phry said:

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

This is more so the answer I was looking for. I never expect to be the BEST PVP player in the game, but I don't want to be getting facerolled by everyone I come in contact with because I didn't spend 1000's of dollars in the item shop. My motto is that if I can't play the game without spending more than a normal sub fee would be per month, then I'm not interested.

If your prepared to work at it, you can still get the armour upgraded, but you have to be prepared to spend 8 or so hours a day for several weeks, you can probably get weapons and armour upgraded to DUO, you won't be awesome, but you will be okay'ish, as long as you PVP as part of a group you will do okay, but as you might have guessed, people with TET armour/weapons will pwn your hide on a regular basis.
There are also costumes that give bonuses to gameplay, and pets to give bonus xp for activities and also auto loot for you, you need 3 though, and ideally you need to pick up the 30 day vip pack, quality of life benefits and increased xp gains, there is really no way of avoiding spending money in this game, and its certainly a lot more fun once you have.

raystantz · November 2016

Phry said:

raystantz said:

Phry said:

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

This is more so the answer I was looking for. I never expect to be the BEST PVP player in the game, but I don't want to be getting facerolled by everyone I come in contact with because I didn't spend 1000's of dollars in the item shop. My motto is that if I can't play the game without spending more than a normal sub fee would be per month, then I'm not interested.

If your prepared to work at it, you can still get the armour upgraded, but you have to be prepared to spend 8 or so hours a day for several weeks, you can probably get weapons and armour upgraded to DUO, you won't be awesome, but you will be okay'ish, as long as you PVP as part of a group you will do okay, but as you might have guessed, people with TET armour/weapons will pwn your hide on a regular basis.
There are also costumes that give bonuses to gameplay, and pets to give bonus xp for activities and also auto loot for you, you need 3 though, and ideally you need to pick up the 30 day vip pack, quality of life benefits and increased xp gains, there is really no way of avoiding spending money in this game, and its certainly a lot more fun once you have.

I don't have that kind of time to devote to any game, much less this one. Is doing that actually fun for anyone? Seriously, 8 hours a day in a game? Go home BDO, you're drunk.

Sovrath · November 2016

raystantz said:

I bought this a while back.. and I'm kicking myself now for paying that much for it.. ugh.

I played it for a bit and then got bored, suffering from the same thing all of these games suffer from.. nobody to play with.

I felt like I was just playing a single player game. I ran into very few people. I was hoping I was getting into a really awesome Sandbox PVP game...

I've also heard it's very P2W.. is this true?

I'm going back through old MMO's and seeing if I want to try any of them again..

I've never thought it was pay to win but as Kano mentioned, one's mileage may vary.

Honestly, you need to join a guild.

raystantz · November 2016

Sovrath said:

raystantz said:

I bought this a while back.. and I'm kicking myself now for paying that much for it.. ugh.

I played it for a bit and then got bored, suffering from the same thing all of these games suffer from.. nobody to play with.

I felt like I was just playing a single player game. I ran into very few people. I was hoping I was getting into a really awesome Sandbox PVP game...

I've also heard it's very P2W.. is this true?

I'm going back through old MMO's and seeing if I want to try any of them again..

I've never thought it was pay to win but as Kano mentioned, one's mileage may vary.

Honestly, you need to join a guild.

I just want to be able to play a couple of hours, a few days a week. Mostly casually, sometimes I might spend an entire day on a game but those are here and there and not a normal occurrence. My only concern was just literally being destroyed by everyone I come in contact with unless I spend absurd amounts of money/time into the game. You're saying that this is not the case in this game?

Scorchien · November 2016

raystantz said:

Phry said:

raystantz said:

Phry said:

its not pay to win, but you can spend real money to improve your characters combat performance

indeed, if you aren't prepared to spend real money then perhaps its best to avoid the PVP part of the game, as its something of a requirement as you need to get TET weapons and armour etc. to compete.

This is more so the answer I was looking for. I never expect to be the BEST PVP player in the game, but I don't want to be getting facerolled by everyone I come in contact with because I didn't spend 1000's of dollars in the item shop. My motto is that if I can't play the game without spending more than a normal sub fee would be per month, then I'm not interested.

If your prepared to work at it, you can still get the armour upgraded, but you have to be prepared to spend 8 or so hours a day for several weeks, you can probably get weapons and armour upgraded to DUO, you won't be awesome, but you will be okay'ish, as long as you PVP as part of a group you will do okay, but as you might have guessed, people with TET armour/weapons will pwn your hide on a regular basis.
There are also costumes that give bonuses to gameplay, and pets to give bonus xp for activities and also auto loot for you, you need 3 though, and ideally you need to pick up the 30 day vip pack, quality of life benefits and increased xp gains, there is really no way of avoiding spending money in this game, and its certainly a lot more fun once you have.

I don't have that kind of time to devote to any game, much less this one. Is doing that actually fun for anyone? Seriously, 8 hours a day in a game? Go home BDO, you're drunk.

Yea its the new Mini game PinBlood

Bloodaxes · November 2016

raystantz said:

Sovrath said:

raystantz said:

I bought this a while back.. and I'm kicking myself now for paying that much for it.. ugh.

I played it for a bit and then got bored, suffering from the same thing all of these games suffer from.. nobody to play with.

I felt like I was just playing a single player game. I ran into very few people. I was hoping I was getting into a really awesome Sandbox PVP game...

I've also heard it's very P2W.. is this true?

I'm going back through old MMO's and seeing if I want to try any of them again..

I've never thought it was pay to win but as Kano mentioned, one's mileage may vary.

Honestly, you need to join a guild.

I just want to be able to play a couple of hours, a few days a week. Mostly casually, sometimes I might spend an entire day on a game but those are here and there and not a normal occurrence. My only concern was just literally being destroyed by everyone I come in contact with unless I spend absurd amounts of money/time into the game. You're saying that this is not the case in this game?

Unless your intention is to attack anyone you see (After level 40), you won't get much random pking if you don't invade other group of people farming specific zones in the map. Obviously when your guild goes to war with another guild you might get stomped as there will be higher geared and leveled enemies but that can happen in other games too.

Sovrath · November 2016

raystantz said:

Sovrath said:

raystantz said:

I bought this a while back.. and I'm kicking myself now for paying that much for it.. ugh.

I played it for a bit and then got bored, suffering from the same thing all of these games suffer from.. nobody to play with.

I felt like I was just playing a single player game. I ran into very few people. I was hoping I was getting into a really awesome Sandbox PVP game...

I've also heard it's very P2W.. is this true?

I'm going back through old MMO's and seeing if I want to try any of them again..

I've never thought it was pay to win but as Kano mentioned, one's mileage may vary.

Honestly, you need to join a guild.

I just want to be able to play a couple of hours, a few days a week. Mostly casually, sometimes I might spend an entire day on a game but those are here and there and not a normal occurrence. My only concern was just literally being destroyed by everyone I come in contact with unless I spend absurd amounts of money/time into the game. You're saying that this is not the case in this game?

Not it's not.

I think I've been pk'ed 4 times total. And if someone wants your spot just change channel if you don't want to deal with it.

And none of my lower level alts have ever been pk'ed. I should add that no one can attack you until you are level 50.

DrWookie · November 2016

If you keep to yourself you will rarely be attacked. It won't really become an issue until you get high enough to farm somewhere like Sausans. Even then MOST people will just say "Please leave, I'm farming here" and then will let you go. If you don't go, they will kill you.

I have run across a few peopel though who I guess take pleasure in attacking people. It does happen. They generally will try to hurt you enough so you die by enemies so they have less of a penalty, and you lose XP. That happens very rarely.

That being said, if you only spend "a couple" hours a day at most in the game...you WILL be owned by all of the people who try to kill you. You shouldn't even bother fighting back. The game does require either a large time investment, or a large financial investment. I play only a couple of hours a day and if someone starts attacking me I avoid mob damage as much as possible, but I just let them kill me. There is no reason to fight back since the game isn't skill based and there is no way I will make any headway. Don't want to give them the "satisfaction" of thinking that it took them skill to kill me.

raystantz · November 2016

DrWookie said:

If you keep to yourself you will rarely be attacked. It won't really become an issue until you get high enough to farm somewhere like Sausans. Even then MOST people will just say "Please leave, I'm farming here" and then will let you go. If you don't go, they will kill you.

I have run across a few peopel though who I guess take pleasure in attacking people. It does happen. They generally will try to hurt you enough so you die by enemies so they have less of a penalty, and you lose XP. That happens very rarely.

That being said, if you only spend "a couple" hours a day at most in the game...you WILL be owned by all of the people who try to kill you. You shouldn't even bother fighting back. The game does require either a large time investment, or a large financial investment. I play only a couple of hours a day and if someone starts attacking me I avoid mob damage as much as possible, but I just let them kill me. There is no reason to fight back since the game isn't skill based and there is no way I will make any headway. Don't want to give them the "satisfaction" of thinking that it took them skill to kill me.

That also doesn't sound very fun. I guess I'm out of touch on how these games are supposed to be played. Nothing sounds fun about any of that. It sounds like a chore. I'm fine with large time investments over a long period of time, but I'm not cool with having to literally do nothing else with my time in order to actually have fun playing the game. I'm also reading things where people refer to "spots" which doesn't make me excited about the prospect of playing with other people if all people do is solo grind in their "spots."

I'm not sure this is the game for me.. or if there even is one at this point.

Bloodaxes · November 2016

Group grinding in specific spots is viable too if you don't mind sharing the loot. You get more protection from gankers too this way.

Most games nowadays are more solo friendly so I don't see why it's so shocking to you.

LIOKI · November 2016

Everyone in this thread who disagreed with me either has never played the game, or are casual and don't care if they can earn more silver/hour. Having 3 T3 pets will make you earn massive amounts of silver over someone with no pets or even 1-2 at T1-T2, how do you get T3 pets you buy them, "breed" them, and hope for the best. This is undisputed truth right there.

Weight limit increase??? I never bought a single one, I got all mine the way some have described. And I can't carry as much turn in items as most of my guildmates, thus I have to stop more often and empty my bags, while they keep earning. They bought the weight from the pearl shop. Cannot argue with this logic.

Horse skill resets, if you have an iq larger that your shoe then you'd realize that resetting the horse for the best skills possible will net you a large amount of silver when you sell it compared to a god-damn donkey with caution and quick stop....This isn't a great way to earn silver any more, but when T6 horses were the shit players earned huge amounts of silver.

You all can white knight the shit out of the online casino all you want, but it's still a p2w model.

Phry · November 2016

Bloodaxes said:

Group grinding in specific spots is viable too if you don't mind sharing the loot. You get more protection from gankers too this way.

Most games nowadays are more solo friendly so I don't see why it's so shocking to you.

Making friends in BDO is just as important as it is in other MMO's i don't really understand why some have such a problem with it, as it certainly makes playing games more fun, and the overall gaming experience is heightened.
But you are correct that if you are in a group, your less likely to be ganked, of course, if your in a guild group, then there is always the possibility of a guild war, but given that it is consequence free, there is no reason not to enjoy it for what it is.

Group grinding xp in BDO is probably the fastest way to level up there is

raystantz · November 2016

I could have sworn I got ganked when I was way lower than level 50.. maybe I didn't though.

Bloodaxes · November 2016

Unless they changed it, last time I played you could get attacked after 40 I believe.

Sovrath · November 2016

Bloodaxes said:

Unless they changed it, last time I played you could get attacked after 40 I believe.

It used to be 45 and now it's 50.

Mikeha · November 2016

Everybody has their own definition of P2W.

Mine is when I pretty much have to spend in the cash shop just to be able to play the game.

Example would be Lineage 2

At level 99 if you do not buy XP boost in the cash shop you can forget about making any progress.

To me this is pay to win and that is why I quit Lineage 2.

I have been playing Black Desert since release and have never spent anything in the cash shop and have been able to log on and do anything I want with out needing to.

When I have to spend in Black Desert's cash shop then I will say Pay To Win. So far so good.

Sovrath · November 2016

If I wanted to be "top geared" and money was no object (meaning I was willing to spend what it would take) then I could not swipe my card once and make it happen.

Having said that, if one was willing to spend the max for putting in the 5 pearl Items per week (I think that's the max one can put on the market) then one could make about 100 million + per week which eventually would allow you to be competitive gear wise.

Another thing that some players don't realize is that you could play the "crafting/market" game instead and just buy your top gear with the in game gold instead of fretting with enchanting. One guy in a guild I was in did that. He just concentrated on making money and bought all his top end gear.

The alternative is that if you play a lot then you can also get the components necessary for top gear.

So either play a lot to be "top" competitive or spend an extraordinary amount of money per week.

In which case this game can be considered a "spend a lot over time" or "spend a lot of time" game. That is if you have to be competitive.

I don't know many pvp games where you can be casual and be competitive with the exception of Guild Wars (2) or perhaps EVE?

Phry · November 2016

Recore said:

Everybody has their own definition of P2W.

Mine is when I pretty much have to spend in the cash shop just to be able to play the game.

Example would be Lineage 2

At level 99 if you do not buy XP boost in the cash shop you can forget about making any progress.

To me this is pay to win and that is why I quit Lineage 2.

I have been playing Black Desert since release and have never spent anything in the cash shop and have been able to log on and do anything I want with out needing too.

When I have to spend in Black Desert's cash shop then I will say Pay To Win. So far so good.

There are a lot of quality of life things that you can buy that get rid of the more tedious aspects, such as looting corpses, and when your grinding mobs, there are a 'lot' of corpses, stopping to loot them all would be very time consuming, there are also the outfits that are more than just cosmetic, but give bonuses, including stamina, but reduce wear and tear on your weapons too, which is very useful if your grinding levels, and since you only gain levels through grinding, its handy, also, you can buy extra inventory slots, and extra weight allowances, far beyond anything you could gain from levelling up strength, the vip pack which gives you 30 days of enhanced xp gain not to mention extra weight allowance and inventory slots, and of course kamisavs blessings, which give you 24 hrs of faster energy gain, handy for gathering and recharging after node investment, and last but not least, being able to sell pearl shop items on the market for silver, which, if your of a mind to upgrade your gear, you are going to need a lot of, after all, failstacks don't make themselves, and black stones aren't cheap, especially when you need hundreds of the things.
Yes, you can play the game without buying anything from the cash shop, but most do, so for the odd few that don't, are usually at a disadvantage to the ones that do, as those that buy can stay grinding for longer, can carry more potions and can carry more loot, and they get more xp so they level faster, a lot faster as it happens.

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