Other: I don't care about polls. Over the past few days many threads have been posted that by the same person and this is drained me of any more of these types of posts including polls.
Why does it matter? What useful thing will be done with this information?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Other: I don't care about polls. Over the past few days many threads have been posted that by the same person and this is drained me of any more of these types of posts including polls.
Why does it matter? What useful thing will be done with this information?
We have an end of year poll party where we get together and talk about all of the polls and have a poll on which poll was the best poll while we wait for santa to come from the north pole.
Raid boss fights are pretty much the same, do this until that happens then rush over to this spot and wait for something else then rush back to here and pound until that thing occurs then count three and go over there. Choreography is right, meaning high ping will deliver the death knoll and if your not a mechanics player, you'll fail. So for me raid boss fights that can only be completed by dancing the dance are not what the game should be about.
I voted FFXI for nostalgia reasons, everything in that game really felt epic to me, it was a glorious sight. The bosses were an epic cluster**** that could only make your jaw drop in awe sometimes. It was also very tiring.
Lineage 2 also had some epic feeling fights, the bosses in Lineage 2 felt far more intimidating than most other MMOs. Fighting Antharas and defending your kill from other clans was the craziest thing I have experienced in a boss raid. I haven't fought any of the C5 bosses and later, so no idea how they turned out.
Lineage 2 for me too.
I remember having to work our way all the way to the top of Tower Of Insolence to fight Baium for the Noble Quest. Getting to the top was tough with out a mage who could use sleep on the mobs and even if you got to the top you had to pvp with others trying to get the spawn. It was awesome.
WoW but closely followed by Everquest. One of the few things WoW does well are boss fight design with fun smooth and well balanced encounters. Everquest is on a different epic level with fights that require focus over a longer period of time, some are straightforward while others are extremely complicated, and as always with everquest had a variety of solutions to win.
I like a lot of games on that list, played all but the Final Fantasy ones. I had to pick Everquest, The nostalgic feeling I get from that game could be enough to cause my bias. To coordinate before there was teamspeak or ventrillo or whatever is out now. had to type it all out. No addons to tell you where to stand or what was incoming, you legit had to pay attention. I felt that back in the day when the Citadel of Anguish was new, the overlord mata muram fight was one of the best fights ever designed. I am sure there are a lot more in Everquest that are better, but this one was well tuned.
I've played several of those games, but none of them struck me as having notably good boss fights. A lot of the MMORPGs that I've liked either didn't have boss fights at all (e.g., Uncharted Waters Online, A Tale in the Desert, Puzzle Pirates) or had boss fights as the worst part of the game (e.g., Spiral Knights).
I tried to think of other MMORPGs or even non-MMO games with notably good boss fights and couldn't come up with any. After looking over a lot of old games, the only ones I could come up with that would be notably weaker games if the boss fights were removed and replaced by non-boss content was the Mega Man series. Maybe I just don't like boss fights.
GW2 boss open world boss fights is just a come all, play all, do what you want fight. Want to group, group. Want to solo group, long as you know what to do, then solo group, download the boss timers and know exactly when the party starts.
I also liked the mini-bosses at the end of most quests in ESO before the nerf. Some of them really beat the mess out of me. It make me rethink my strategy, adjust my weapons and build, and keep at it until the boss became dust. Greatest feeling in the world.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Definitely TERA, 100%. Top end fights took like 20 minutes each and one slip up and you were dead. Lots of fun too with the action combat.
I watched a stream recently of WoW and I had to LoL. Guy was running like 50 add-ons telling him exactly what to do and when to do it. Tab-target is lame enough as it is. Basically the lamest gameplay possible for PVE.
100% scripted fights to the second without any random attack?
I am a member of "the Purpose" and abhor "the Random"
Besides there's nothing really random in a MMORPG, (or life) you may not easily recognize the pattern, but it's there. All serve the Purpose.
WOW was the only game I ever really fought "boss mobs" with any sense of purpose, so while it gets my vote as the only one, it also "cured" me of raiding.
Scripted "Dances with the Stars" holds no real appeal to me, especially after the pattern has been mastered, just becomes boring and without purpose.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I had to go with Age of Conan. Having been a raid tank in most of the games listed (including some mentioned in posts, ie Secret World) I had the hardest time in AoC. By far the most challenging boss fights I had to learn, nad very well executed in my opinion. WoW does a great job with their boss fights. Mildstar was meh, they have hard fights, I grant that but just stupidly hard most of the time.
For me it is:
AoC WoW
With TSW fights being 3rd more for the crazy fun they end up being.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Chatha The Demon Lord - One of the games first "impossible" bosses. Many raids just skipped this boss because it is very technical and the fight is a two parter, where you get him to half life and he transforms into a demon. These days people only kill this boss to farm the awesome sword recipe.
Hathor-Ka - The guild killer. This fight is incredibly technical. Every single player has to be on the ball 100% for this. If one person isn't paying attention, then they wipe the entire raid.
Toth-Amon(!) - Another "impossible" boss. In fact, in the eight years that I played Age of Conan, I only ever killed him maybe a dozen times. Most guilds simply cannot handle the second phase and if you lose too many players in the second phase, then you'll never survive the third.
The Keeper - Badass tanks and heals required for this one during the first phase, then the second phase requires precise movement from everyone in the raid. 1-2 people standing in the wrong spot and you'll wipe all of the clothies.
Master Gyas - The "tank test". This is the fight that separates the good tanks from the bad tanks. If you are under equipped, have a bad spec, or don't know how to swap aggro with another tank, then the raid dies.
General Sheng - One of the most epic boss fights I've ever encountered. The first boss of T4 raiding kept many guilds from even participating in T4 raiding for about a year. The raid breaks down into four groups with each group on different ends of a huge courtyard, and each group responsible for a specfic part of the fight. One group messes up and that's it.
Zodiac - A boss fight and a puzzle all at the same time. The boss performs special abilities, but if people run out of the group and stand on the correct order of symbols on the zodiac, then it cancels his special abilities. There are eight different patterns to memorize, making the players who know them crucial to the fight.
Then there's all of the 6 man dungeons, which I, personally, believe is the best raiding in Age of Conan. As much as I like the 24 player dungeons, the K6's are far more fun.
LotRO wins it for me in terms of gameplay / mechanics
WAR wins it in terms of actual boss aesthetics
With LotRO, it all comes down to the class and combat design. It wasn't holy trinity - it had a fourth pillar of support classes (buff/debuff/cc). This meant tactics were more complicated and varied and whilst each boss still had the usual scripted events, there were multiple routes to success based on the classes in your raid. Resource management was also massively important. Unlike games like SW:TOR or WAR where everybody developed resource-neutral rotations and resources (mana/power etc) regened within 5 seconds, LotRO didn't have that. It was physically impossible to have a resource-neutral rotation - in every boss fight you were guaranteed to run out of power. This added a whole new layer of complexity as you'd have to manage your resources as a raid - loremasters could give power on occasion, some classes could set off conjunctions (fellowship manoeuvres) which would potentially restore power. My class, a captain, would run out of power within 90seconds if I used a skill every GCD!
Favourite bosses from LotRO:
Thrang - penultimate boss in Rift of Nurz Ghashu
Thaurlach - final boss in the Rift, big old balrog
Mammoths - Wound wing of Ost Dunhoth, raid gets chased by 3 mammoths down corridors, followed by tons of adds
Frothmar - Poison wing of Ost Dunhoth, really interesting mechanic for removing DoTs
Draigoch - Absolutely massive dragon, pretty easy boss but great aetshetics and some interesting mechanics.
For WAR, I just love the Warhammer IP so even though the mechanics sucked and PvE in general was terrible, some of the bosses looked amazing. I spent a lot of time in Bilerot Burrows with my guild, wandering around the sewers getting attacked by nasties. Final boss was the Bile Lord, a great big fat creature that eats the whole group, moving the fight to it's innards for a short amount of time!
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
FFXIV , WoW ect has some awesome encounters , however is like learning a dance step by step once u know all is easy to beat , there is little to no surprises ....
FFXI was the last mmorpg that i remember having random attacks making every battle interesting , is true that there was some fixed attacks (like X attack at 50%HP or Y attack is some1 is on the back of the mob ) but i remember some simple BCNMS planning what to do , root / sleep that 1 , gravity the melee and kite, tank and burn this 1 , ect CC was needed and hell Stun rotations were important back then
Like a broken record,i have seen better normal mob fights in FFXI than other games Boss fights but i guess it depends what you call good or best. Try fighting a CORPSE in FFXI,you could easily see your whole party dead or charmed.Also unlike all these other games,there are Bosses everywhere and not locked up in some instances,so that alone intrigues me more than a bunch of players heading into some instance or dungeon.It feels more like a game world when you can see other players around you,passing by or just onlooking.
But i can truly say i have seen lots of good Boss fights in pretty much every game i have played,the problem with most is all you do is just SPAM your attacks,like playing some ARPG, there is not a whole lot of thinking involved.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
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Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
So for me raid boss fights that can only be completed by dancing the dance are not what the game should be about.
Lineage 2 for me too.
I remember having to work our way all the way to the top of Tower Of Insolence to fight Baium for the Noble Quest. Getting to the top was tough with out a mage who could use sleep on the mobs and even if you got to the top you had to pvp with others trying to get the spawn. It was awesome.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I tried to think of other MMORPGs or even non-MMO games with notably good boss fights and couldn't come up with any. After looking over a lot of old games, the only ones I could come up with that would be notably weaker games if the boss fights were removed and replaced by non-boss content was the Mega Man series. Maybe I just don't like boss fights.
So I'm going to say Elsword.
I also liked the mini-bosses at the end of most quests in ESO before the nerf. Some of them really beat the mess out of me. It make me rethink my strategy, adjust my weapons and build, and keep at it until the boss became dust. Greatest feeling in the world.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I watched a stream recently of WoW and I had to LoL. Guy was running like 50 add-ons telling him exactly what to do and when to do it. Tab-target is lame enough as it is. Basically the lamest gameplay possible for PVE.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Besides there's nothing really random in a MMORPG, (or life) you may not easily recognize the pattern, but it's there. All serve the Purpose.
WOW was the only game I ever really fought "boss mobs" with any sense of purpose, so while it gets my vote as the only one, it also "cured" me of raiding.
Scripted "Dances with the Stars" holds no real appeal to me, especially after the pattern has been mastered, just becomes boring and without purpose.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
For me it is:
AoC
WoW
With TSW fights being 3rd more for the crazy fun they end up being.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Here some ESO awesomeness...
Chatha The Demon Lord - One of the games first "impossible" bosses. Many raids just skipped this boss because it is very technical and the fight is a two parter, where you get him to half life and he transforms into a demon. These days people only kill this boss to farm the awesome sword recipe.
Hathor-Ka - The guild killer. This fight is incredibly technical. Every single player has to be on the ball 100% for this. If one person isn't paying attention, then they wipe the entire raid.
Toth-Amon(!) - Another "impossible" boss. In fact, in the eight years that I played Age of Conan, I only ever killed him maybe a dozen times. Most guilds simply cannot handle the second phase and if you lose too many players in the second phase, then you'll never survive the third.
The Keeper - Badass tanks and heals required for this one during the first phase, then the second phase requires precise movement from everyone in the raid. 1-2 people standing in the wrong spot and you'll wipe all of the clothies.
Master Gyas - The "tank test". This is the fight that separates the good tanks from the bad tanks. If you are under equipped, have a bad spec, or don't know how to swap aggro with another tank, then the raid dies.
General Sheng - One of the most epic boss fights I've ever encountered. The first boss of T4 raiding kept many guilds from even participating in T4 raiding for about a year. The raid breaks down into four groups with each group on different ends of a huge courtyard, and each group responsible for a specfic part of the fight. One group messes up and that's it.
Zodiac - A boss fight and a puzzle all at the same time. The boss performs special abilities, but if people run out of the group and stand on the correct order of symbols on the zodiac, then it cancels his special abilities. There are eight different patterns to memorize, making the players who know them crucial to the fight.
Then there's all of the 6 man dungeons, which I, personally, believe is the best raiding in Age of Conan. As much as I like the 24 player dungeons, the K6's are far more fun.
WAR wins it in terms of actual boss aesthetics
With LotRO, it all comes down to the class and combat design. It wasn't holy trinity - it had a fourth pillar of support classes (buff/debuff/cc). This meant tactics were more complicated and varied and whilst each boss still had the usual scripted events, there were multiple routes to success based on the classes in your raid. Resource management was also massively important. Unlike games like SW:TOR or WAR where everybody developed resource-neutral rotations and resources (mana/power etc) regened within 5 seconds, LotRO didn't have that. It was physically impossible to have a resource-neutral rotation - in every boss fight you were guaranteed to run out of power. This added a whole new layer of complexity as you'd have to manage your resources as a raid - loremasters could give power on occasion, some classes could set off conjunctions (fellowship manoeuvres) which would potentially restore power. My class, a captain, would run out of power within 90seconds if I used a skill every GCD!
Favourite bosses from LotRO:
For WAR, I just love the Warhammer IP so even though the mechanics sucked and PvE in general was terrible, some of the bosses looked amazing. I spent a lot of time in Bilerot Burrows with my guild, wandering around the sewers getting attacked by nasties. Final boss was the Bile Lord, a great big fat creature that eats the whole group, moving the fight to it's innards for a short amount of time!
I do feel that MMOs could make boss fights more interesting though, considering you do most of them many times they are far too predictable.
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
FFXI was the last mmorpg that i remember having random attacks making every battle interesting , is true that there was some fixed attacks (like X attack at 50%HP or Y attack is some1 is on the back of the mob ) but i remember some simple BCNMS planning what to do , root / sleep that 1 , gravity the melee and kite, tank and burn this 1 , ect CC was needed and hell Stun rotations were important back then
Try fighting a CORPSE in FFXI,you could easily see your whole party dead or charmed.Also unlike all these other games,there are Bosses everywhere and not locked up in some instances,so that alone intrigues me more than a bunch of players heading into some instance or dungeon.It feels more like a game world when you can see other players around you,passing by or just onlooking.
But i can truly say i have seen lots of good Boss fights in pretty much every game i have played,the problem with most is all you do is just SPAM your attacks,like playing some ARPG, there is not a whole lot of thinking involved.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.