So instead of selling out to corporates we're selling out to the players now. I miss the days when we could just sell our souls to the devil. At least he was just one dude.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
A $40k investment should be a $40k INVESTMENT, where you know, you hold shares of stock in the company and thus the company's profitability is in your best interest?
A $40k payment to pay-to-win, however... at that point the company is probably just as beholden to your type of player as it would have been if you were an investor instead. Only the major difference being that the company's profitability, and thus, the successfulness of the game, is NOT your first priority (though it may or may not be a secondary priority. That's really not good enough for the type of monetary power such a player base will have over the company I think).
If anything, anyone nuts enough to spend $40k on the game to lord it over other players will presumably lord it over other players. Even the game developers are expecting that when they basically just said these players will become the ultimate evil (vices) out to destroy everyones' world...
There are other things going on as well, so you'll hit some subsequent pages that don't deal with that in between the ones that do. (The real GMs screw up and give the GM abilities to a group of PKers/Griefers)
The people he has as Community Managers (I think 2 of them including his wife), need to sit him down in a corner and tell him NOT to interact externally except through his blogs. He has some of the thinnest skin I've seen for a developer and has yet to learn that attacking your player base very rarely ends positively.
Or maybe your just the one with thin-skin crying over a hypothetical conversation. First of all as general advice you need to grow up.
I've backed this game since before its kickstarter, and I have never once disagreed with a DECISION Caspian has made thus far. He was talking in a discord not making announcements and people take everything as a hardcore decision everytime. Now this guy Slapshot is probably one of those people scared because of a kingdom being larger than the others on one of the servers, but masks it over with a fear of something that won't even be in game and is using that as a scapegoat for what his real problem is. Furthermore, if they did select players to take on a gm role they probably wouldn't have them do it based on how much money they spent, but on how active and influential they were and most likely on a server they didnt have a character on. BUT THAT IS AN IF. THERE IS NO PLAN TO USE PLAYERS AS DMS.
Now about pay to win, it isn't pay to win! You pay for a starting title, which you can achieve in game from the lowest rank, and just because you have a title doesn't make the game "better" for you, you don't have better powers or a higher lvl. It just makes it more like a management sim game. You could own every kingdom in the server and you wouldn't be winning more than me because what if all I wanted to do was explore and traveled to more places or meet more people or even have better stats than you. (Yes someone that paid $35 can have better fighting stats than someone would spent $100,000) And its more likely I'll be a better fighter because I will have more time to practice and not worry about people killing me, while you run a kingdom. Furthermore, the higher your title the faster your character can die, if you actually read the mechanics of fame for the game.
Now what else do people want to complain about. Oh I know "But if you buy a title you start with an advantage" (Pouts)
I have played mmos for almost 15 years and I've never joined one that were people didn't have a leg up on me, them being maxed level and whatnot when I joined the game. I didn't go "Oh no other people are farther than me guess I can't enjoy this game now." If I wanted to play a "fair" game I'd play Halo where everyone starts out with the same gun and same abilities every match with your character never progressing. That's really how to be "fair." But to me that gets boring real fast.
The way I look at it people with higher pledges are just like those people that were playing the game longer than you in another mmo. Can you still enjoy the game? Of course. Can you get to their position? It might be tough but yes you can. Can your smaller kingdom grow and rival other kingdoms? yes just like guilds do in other mmos.
Always have to have people like slapshot bitching though.
Get back to me when there's an actual game to care about.
Now you have closed a very very large window of discussions with that statement.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Asking those who claims this is P2W - kindly show me where it defines how you win this game.
I'm not into winning anything out of this game. But I am really into who we'll have as GMs.
If you don't believe that I can refer you to back in time to February 23, 1995 - Seinfeld episode 104th - The Doorman.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
The people he has as Community Managers (I think 2 of them including his wife), need to sit him down in a corner and tell him NOT to interact externally except through his blogs. He has some of the thinnest skin I've seen for a developer and has yet to learn that attacking your player base very rarely ends positively.
Or maybe your just the one with thin-skin crying over a hypothetical conversation. First of all as general advice you need to grow up.
I've backed this game since before its kickstarter, and I have never once disagreed with a DECISION Caspian has made thus far. He was talking in a discord not making announcements and people take everything as a hardcore decision everytime. Now this guy Slapshot is probably one of those people scared because of a kingdom being larger than the others on one of the servers, but masks it over with a fear of something that won't even be in game and is using that as a scapegoat for what his real problem is. Furthermore, if they did select players to take on a gm role they probably wouldn't have them do it based on how much money they spent, but on how active and influential they were and most likely on a server they didnt have a character on. BUT THAT IS AN IF. THERE IS NO PLAN TO USE PLAYERS AS DMS.
Now about pay to win, it isn't pay to win! You pay for a starting title, which you can achieve in game from the lowest rank, and just because you have a title doesn't make the game "better" for you, you don't have better powers or a higher lvl. It just makes it more like a management sim game. You could own every kingdom in the server and you wouldn't be winning more than me because what if all I wanted to do was explore and traveled to more places or meet more people or even have better stats than you. (Yes someone that paid $35 can have better fighting stats than someone would spent $100,000) And its more likely I'll be a better fighter because I will have more time to practice and not worry about people killing me, while you run a kingdom. Furthermore, the higher your title the faster your character can die, if you actually read the mechanics of fame for the game.
Now what else do people want to complain about. Oh I know "But if you buy a title you start with an advantage" (Pouts)
I have played mmos for almost 15 years and I've never joined one that were people didn't have a leg up on me, them being maxed level and whatnot when I joined the game. I didn't go "Oh no other people are farther than me guess I can't enjoy this game now." If I wanted to play a "fair" game I'd play Halo where everyone starts out with the same gun and same abilities every match with your character never progressing. That's really how to be "fair." But to me that gets boring real fast.
The way I look at it people with higher pledges are just like those people that were playing the game longer than you in another mmo. Can you still enjoy the game? Of course. Can you get to their position? It might be tough but yes you can. Can your smaller kingdom grow and rival other kingdoms? yes just like guilds do in other mmos.
Always have to have people like slapshot bitching though.
LOL drink the coolaid much! This is the definition of what P2W is. If you can enter the game with something or get something that give you an advantage over others that is P2W from the get go. Pretty sure giving a private player even if they are an investor the ability to do whatever they wish the in game through GM powers fits that pretty well.
Also there is a difference between earning something in game an buying it outright.
Just so it is clear to everyone how much out of context that OP is (it was a free spirited conversation, where the developer jokingly said those words) here is his official response on the games own forum, where they make announcments like this...
LOL drink the coolaid much! This is the definition of what P2W is. If you can enter the game with something or get something that give you an advantage over others that is P2W from the get go. Pretty sure giving a private player even if they are an investor the ability to do whatever they wish the in game through GM powers fits that pretty well.
Also there is a difference between earning something in game an buying it outright.
Explain how someone buy a title only at the start is "winning" by doing that? Also there will be no players with GM powers.
"I have no plans to allow players - high backers or otherwise, to log into Game master/Dungeon master accounts to run live story events. Period."
@k61977 idk if you are aware, but Slapshot1188 purpose for existence is to post anti-CoE shit, he has been doing it for months so everything he posts is to try to bring the game down.
40k is a lot of money . People expect something in return.
Let us know when you put down 40k and expect, to be just another player..
Gaming is not a car or house, you should not expect to get more. It is an activity where we play with others on a level playing field. Be that PVE or PVP. By putting in more time you can build up an advantage, but not by buying one.
As always money distorts peoples values, this is making a mockery of gaming ethos. That said it has not happened and may never actually happen. But it does make you question the team behind the game.
Asking those who claims this is P2W - kindly show me where it defines how you win this game.
You are going to pull the it's not P2W card when people are dumping $10k to $40k on a game?
Everything about this game, from the website, to the store, to the attitude of the devs, to the pay to king, to the mud, to the permadeath, to the promises and timeline, to the kickstarter makes me never want to touch it with anyone's pole.
It's just an ongoing display of incompetence.
A fool and his money...
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
What Ever I want them to make their vision of the game despite the price and who knows maybe big boys of the industry will pick up some of the ideas .
MMOs are a genre where the best ideas are so often forgotten so don't hold your breath. If it is a big "success" in revenue terms everything about it will be copied without thinking, if it is a "failure" every good idea will be forgotten.
@k61977 idk if you are aware, but Slapshot1188 purpose for existence is to post anti-CoE shit, he has been doing it for months so everything he posts is to try to bring the game down.
It's the sign of a weak argument to try and attack the messenger and not the message.
Either way, WELCOME to the forums! We can use some more spirited discussions around here! The more you post, the more content we have.. so please do return and participate more.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
LOL drink the coolaid much! This is the definition of what P2W is. If you can enter the game with something or get something that give you an advantage over others that is P2W from the get go. Pretty sure giving a private player even if they are an investor the ability to do whatever they wish the in game through GM powers fits that pretty well.
Also there is a difference between earning something in game an buying it outright.
Explain how someone buy a title only at the start is "winning" by doing that? Also there will be no players with GM powers.
"I have no plans to allow players - high backers or otherwise, to log into Game master/Dungeon master accounts to run live story events. Period."
Ahh this is good on two fronts! It seems that he is reconsidering his statement about being open to allowing influential players to have access to GM accounts and also that someone is instructing him on his posting.
"I was advised to make a short post saying only the following - for clarity.
I have no plans to allow players - high backers or otherwise, to log into Game master/Dungeon master accounts to run live story events. Period.
That is all."
Earlier quote (for context):
"While I have no plan to do so... I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account to RP a Vice/Virtue."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's not pay to win when you spend money to get a higher status than other players.
WHEN WILL YOU HATERS FINALLY REALIZE THAT??!!
I'm not sure what exactly comes with the pay to king $10k but I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more in-game advantage than just a status.
Nobody is paying $10k just for a status.
The people calling this pay 2 win are not all haters most are just being realistic. Take off your fanboy goggles and tell me with a straight face that any other game selling in-game advantages for $10k isn't pay to win. Maybe you will but a vast majority will call being able to buy advantages like pay to king pay to win. It's reality.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
It's not pay to win when you spend money to get a higher status than other players.
WHEN WILL YOU HATERS FINALLY REALIZE THAT??!!
I'm not sure what exactly comes with the pay to king $10k but I'm sure it's a hell of a lot more in-game advantage than just a status.
Nobody is paying $10k just for a status.
The people calling this pay 2 win are not all haters most are just being realistic. Take off your fanboy goggles and tell me with a straight face that any other game selling in-game advantages for $10k isn't pay to win. Maybe you will but a vast majority will call being able to buy advantages like pay to king pay to win. It's reality.
Treat Dakeru's post as sarcasm. Then it makes a lot more sense.
(The actual definition of pay-to-win varies from person to person, but "Spend money to get a higher status than other players" is the very definition of pay-to-win in most peoples' minds from what I can tell, including MMORPG publishers when you look at R2Games' investor presentation on the matter)
Get back to me when there's an actual game to care about.
Now you have closed a very very large window of discussions with that statement.
No you can talk about what you want, I just personally feel it's worthless to worry about something that may never be an actual product, especially if you're letting emotions about it come into play (for or against it).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
I miss the days when we could just sell our souls to the devil. At least he was just one dude.
A $40k payment to pay-to-win, however... at that point the company is probably just as beholden to your type of player as it would have been if you were an investor instead. Only the major difference being that the company's profitability, and thus, the successfulness of the game, is NOT your first priority (though it may or may not be a secondary priority. That's really not good enough for the type of monetary power such a player base will have over the company I think).
If anything, anyone nuts enough to spend $40k on the game to lord it over other players will presumably lord it over other players. Even the game developers are expecting that when they basically just said these players will become the ultimate evil (vices) out to destroy everyones' world...
Oh yea, that's going to turn out well. /sarcasm
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
http://thenoobcomic.com/comic/417/
There are other things going on as well, so you'll hit some subsequent pages that don't deal with that in between the ones that do. (The real GMs screw up and give the GM abilities to a group of PKers/Griefers)
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
I've backed this game since before its kickstarter, and I have never once disagreed with a DECISION Caspian has made thus far. He was talking in a discord not making announcements and people take everything as a hardcore decision everytime. Now this guy Slapshot is probably one of those people scared because of a kingdom being larger than the others on one of the servers, but masks it over with a fear of something that won't even be in game and is using that as a scapegoat for what his real problem is. Furthermore, if they did select players to take on a gm role they probably wouldn't have them do it based on how much money they spent, but on how active and influential they were and most likely on a server they didnt have a character on. BUT THAT IS AN IF. THERE IS NO PLAN TO USE PLAYERS AS DMS.
Now about pay to win, it isn't pay to win! You pay for a starting title, which you can achieve in game from the lowest rank, and just because you have a title doesn't make the game "better" for you, you don't have better powers or a higher lvl. It just makes it more like a management sim game. You could own every kingdom in the server and you wouldn't be winning more than me because what if all I wanted to do was explore and traveled to more places or meet more people or even have better stats than you. (Yes someone that paid $35 can have better fighting stats than someone would spent $100,000) And its more likely I'll be a better fighter because I will have more time to practice and not worry about people killing me, while you run a kingdom. Furthermore, the higher your title the faster your character can die, if you actually read the mechanics of fame for the game.
Now what else do people want to complain about. Oh I know "But if you buy a title you start with an advantage" (Pouts)
I have played mmos for almost 15 years and I've never joined one that were people didn't have a leg up on me, them being maxed level and whatnot when I joined the game. I didn't go "Oh no other people are farther than me guess I can't enjoy this game now." If I wanted to play a "fair" game I'd play Halo where everyone starts out with the same gun and same abilities every match with your character never progressing. That's really how to be "fair." But to me that gets boring real fast.
The way I look at it people with higher pledges are just like those people that were playing the game longer than you in another mmo. Can you still enjoy the game? Of course. Can you get to their position? It might be tough but yes you can. Can your smaller kingdom grow and rival other kingdoms? yes just like guilds do in other mmos.
Always have to have people like slapshot bitching though.
If you don't believe that I can refer you to back in time to February 23, 1995 - Seinfeld episode 104th - The Doorman.
Also there is a difference between earning something in game an buying it outright.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14989/equity-vs-fairness?page=9#post156921
"I have no plans to allow players - high backers or otherwise, to log into Game master/Dungeon master accounts to run live story events. Period."
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14989/equity-vs-fairness?page=9#post156921
Gaming is not a car or house, you should not expect to get more. It is an activity where we play with others on a level playing field. Be that PVE or PVP. By putting in more time you can build up an advantage, but not by buying one.
As always money distorts peoples values, this is making a mockery of gaming ethos. That said it has not happened and may never actually happen. But it does make you question the team behind the game.
Everything about this game, from the website, to the store, to the attitude of the devs, to the pay to king, to the mud, to the permadeath, to the promises and timeline, to the kickstarter makes me never want to touch it with anyone's pole.
It's just an ongoing display of incompetence.
A fool and his money...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/WHEN WILL YOU HATERS FINALLY REALIZE THAT??!!
MMOs are a genre where the best ideas are so often forgotten so don't hold your breath. If it is a big "success" in revenue terms everything about it will be copied without thinking, if it is a "failure" every good idea will be forgotten.
Either way, WELCOME to the forums! We can use some more spirited discussions around here!
The more you post, the more content we have.. so please do return and participate more.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/14989/equity-vs-fairness?page=9#post156921
FULL quote:
"I was advised to make a short post saying only the following - for clarity.
I have no plans to allow players - high backers or otherwise, to log into Game master/Dungeon master accounts to run live story events. Period.
That is all."
Earlier quote (for context):
"While I have no plan to do so... I have no objection to allowing the highly influential players to log off of their primary accounts and log in under a GM account to RP a Vice/Virtue."
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Nobody is paying $10k just for a status.
The people calling this pay 2 win are not all haters most are just being realistic. Take off your fanboy goggles and tell me with a straight face that any other game selling in-game advantages for $10k isn't pay to win. Maybe you will but a vast majority will call being able to buy advantages like pay to king pay to win. It's reality.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/(The actual definition of pay-to-win varies from person to person, but "Spend money to get a higher status than other players" is the very definition of pay-to-win in most peoples' minds from what I can tell, including MMORPG publishers when you look at R2Games' investor presentation on the matter)
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson