Common Internet mistake, "effect" is not the same as "affect". "How it will affect MMOs" is the correct formulation, not "effect MMOs" (eSports section). And I'm not even natively speaking English...
the clamoring for all this retro/backwards compatible games..people would rather play something old than branch out and try something new
too many just..meh indie titles
yearly push of titles that need a longer dev cycle...CoD..sports titles..etc..all need to go on a bi-yearly cycle or something
too much put on Dev's to make a company money and not a good game..so things get rushed
I think a lot of the hunger for retro stuff is a result of the aging of the largest demographic in the "traditional" gaming industry. The same thing happens a lot with people's taste in music--it stops changing once they reach a certain age and begin investing more of their time in their careers and families. I've always adopted new hardware and stayed interested in gaming as it evolved, just as I've always kept my ears open for bands I had never been exposed to before. The same can't be said for many of my friends, though, who would rather play some 8-bit or 16-bit classic for the 20th time than invest their time and money in a more recent game and who continue to listen to the same music they were listening to in their teens.
As for the annual release cycles, I agree. Still we all seem to think that we're burned out on the Assassin's Creeds and Call of Duties, and then they spend months on the best seller lists every year. To their credit, though, most have long-since stopped being rushed out the door in 11 months...CoD is now rotated between 3 different studios, so each one gets almost 3 years to complete their game.
CD Projekt Red are about the only AAA developer who I still respect and view as aiming for more than minimum effort and maximum profit. I hope we, gamers, continue to support and reward them for this in hoping some others come back from the dark side. I don't even like the premise behind Cyberpunk and I plan to buy it solely to support them, how often is that a thing now-a-days?
The only wildcard is Amazon Games Studio, we'll see if they join the ever-growing list of corporate disappointments or stand out.
Minimum effort?
Can you please an example of a AAA studio doing a minimum effort game?
MMO games take a ridiculous amount of effort especially the AAA titles - now if you don't like them, that's fine, but to say they took minimum effort is just well - complete bullshit.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Its just becoming more obvious that gaming companies care more about making the most money vs making quality games.
ITs been that way for many years (ie WoW)......Once they saw teh potential of money that could be made they changed....Its the same in music, movie, television, etc.....Society in general now isnt about doing something great and creative, its about making money period.
I must be pretty out of touch because the writer's opinions are about as far from my own as can be. I'm a mid-30s lifelong gamer with absolutely no interest in eSports or mobile gaming and honestly can't think of a time when there has ever been a wider variety of high quality games available on consoles and PC. When I look at the lists of upcoming games, I see a lot more of what interests me than I did for 2016. There is more out there worth playing than I could ever have the time to play.
Yes, you are most definitely out of touch If you think gaming is doing well currently.
How is it not doing well? I can't think of a time when I have had this much gaming available to me from the past and present. I have every single classic title I could want (from games I've owned in the past) in my library plus new games are coming out all the time.
A huge signal to noise ratio is a great problem to have. It means there is stuff happening. Yep, Steam and other platforms need to get off their butts and improve the search and profiling experience for the user. But having a lot of choice is great.
Stagnation in mmo design is inherent to the genre due to the production time, costs, and risks of the projects. The struggles of mmos aren't necessarily reflective of the rest of the industry.
We are talking about MMORPGs, which are absolutely suffering right now.
NFL is doing well right now, however is equally irrelevant to the conversation.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Indeed you are, wrong and delusional would fit in too...
Thanks for that in depth contribution to the debate. Oh look, I can do a LoL too.
It's okay, the future will happen regardless of what any of us say and no amount of "I told you so" will make a difference (at least shouldn't). There are certain rules and realities of business industries but unfortunately due to their artistic nature and evolving consumer relationship with MMOs, there is a certain romanticism people have about it. I'm glad to see the slowing of AAA MMOs and hopefully after the crowdfunded titles get rolling a few will organically become a big budget title.
In another post recently I commented on the fact that so many said this was coming and it had no effect. The only effect you will have on the gaming industry is to vote with your feet. Do not play games you think are detrimental to gaming. But even that matters little as the market being chased by gaming companies is not the gamers who adhere to "old" standards or indeed any standards other than what they, the companies set.
The slowing, indeed near death of AAA releases is not to be welcomed. You are rather optimistic about crowdfunding, I see some bigger budget MMO releases in the future certainly, but these will not match AAA budgets. The best MMOs of today were those that were AAA and started as P2P. They are hardly perfect and certainly crowdfunding gives more creative freedom, but their slow down can only be a loss to the genre.
I must be pretty out of touch because the writer's opinions are about as far from my own as can be. I'm a mid-30s lifelong gamer with absolutely no interest in eSports or mobile gaming and honestly can't think of a time when there has ever been a wider variety of high quality games available on consoles and PC. When I look at the lists of upcoming games, I see a lot more of what interests me than I did for 2016. There is more out there worth playing than I could ever have the time to play.
Yes, you are most definitely out of touch If you think gaming is doing well currently.
How is it not doing well? I can't think of a time when I have had this much gaming available to me from the past and present. I have every single classic title I could want (from games I've owned in the past) in my library plus new games are coming out all the time.
A huge signal to noise ratio is a great problem to have. It means there is stuff happening. Yep, Steam and other platforms need to get off their butts and improve the search and profiling experience for the user. But having a lot of choice is great.
Stagnation in mmo design is inherent to the genre due to the production time, costs, and risks of the projects. The struggles of mmos aren't necessarily reflective of the rest of the industry.
We are talking about MMORPGs, which are absolutely suffering right now.
NFL is doing well right now, however is equally irrelevant to the conversation.
Actually we're talking about the gaming industry and sometimes where mmos are fitting in or not. It's in the article. If we're going to ignore the rest of the industry and the bigger picture then it just becomes some stale parroted dialogue by the mmo misanthropes.
What is an mmo?
When WoW launched there were posts that it wasn't an mmo (dumbed down); nor was GW1 (instanced) or SWTOR (solo quest driven) and more recently there has been discussion on Destiny (mmo-lite), ESO (is it or isn't it) or even The Division.
Should we be drawing a line in the sand and saying these are mmos, these are not.
We probably all have our own "ideal definition" of what an mmo is though; probaby shaped by our own experiences. Give a group of us a list of 5 games and ask us to say which are mmos, which are not and you might not get 5! - 5 factorial, 120 answers - but it will be several. Make it 10 games and the number of possible combinations is over 3.6M, with 15 games its over 1.3 trillion.
Against this backdrop developers are stumbling around trying to create a winning combination of features. Trying to "guarantee" a niche market whilst hoping to strike gold and hit it big.
If mmos are evolving then the genre could be said to be in excellent health. Whether "we" will recognise the games that come out as mmos though ..... ?
I can't afford a $2,000+ computer to play a video game. Consoles work out well enough despite the lack of AAA blockbusters, because they're cheap AF and the games are generally quite cheap. Decent PC Gaming is too much of an investment. The developers are subsidized by hardware companies who have a vested interest in driving up system requirements to drive up hardware sales.
I must be pretty out of touch because the writer's opinions are about as far from my own as can be. I'm a mid-30s lifelong gamer with absolutely no interest in eSports or mobile gaming and honestly can't think of a time when there has ever been a wider variety of high quality games available on consoles and PC. When I look at the lists of upcoming games, I see a lot more of what interests me than I did for 2016. There is more out there worth playing than I could ever have the time to play.
Yes, you are most definitely out of touch If you think gaming is doing well currently.
How is it not doing well? I can't think of a time when I have had this much gaming available to me from the past and present. I have every single classic title I could want (from games I've owned in the past) in my library plus new games are coming out all the time.
A huge signal to noise ratio is a great problem to have. It means there is stuff happening. Yep, Steam and other platforms need to get off their butts and improve the search and profiling experience for the user. But having a lot of choice is great.
Stagnation in mmo design is inherent to the genre due to the production time, costs, and risks of the projects. The struggles of mmos aren't necessarily reflective of the rest of the industry.
We are talking about MMORPGs, which are absolutely suffering right now.
NFL is doing well right now, however is equally irrelevant to the conversation.
You and I read different articles then because although the one I read often asked "How does this affect MMOs?", the highlights of the article were AAA console games, mobile games, and eSports, none of which have been traditionally linked to the MMO industry. They even used Mass Effect: Andromeda as the thumbnail pic.
And ratings and revenue are actually noticeably down this NFL season. It's an apt comparison, though, because just like the gaming industry, even as we're talking about the decline of the NFL, they're still bringing in billions and the mass appeal isn't going anywhere.
Indeed you are, wrong and delusional would fit in too...
Thanks for that in depth contribution to the debate. Oh look, I can do a LoL too.
It's okay, the future will happen regardless of what any of us say and no amount of "I told you so" will make a difference (at least shouldn't). There are certain rules and realities of business industries but unfortunately due to their artistic nature and evolving consumer relationship with MMOs, there is a certain romanticism people have about it. I'm glad to see the slowing of AAA MMOs and hopefully after the crowdfunded titles get rolling a few will organically become a big budget title.
In another post recently I commented on the fact that so many said this was coming and it had no effect. The only effect you will have on the gaming industry is to vote with your feet. Do not play games you think are detrimental to gaming. But even that matters little as the market being chased by gaming companies is not the gamers who adhere to "old" standards or indeed any standards other than what they, the companies set.
The slowing, indeed near death of AAA releases is not to be welcomed. You are rather optimistic about crowdfunding, I see some bigger budget MMO releases in the future certainly, but these will not match AAA budgets. The best MMOs of today were those that were AAA and started as P2P. They are hardly perfect and certainly crowdfunding gives more creative freedom, but their slow down can only be a loss to the genre.
The slowing of AAA MMOs in their current format or "model" is to be welcomed because since no real new ones are happening (some to come this year IMO) every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles. This is bad for the industry more than the slowing of releases. P2P MMOs coming out as quality F2P titles was a phase not to be repeated due to that fact the transition was not planned, it was a survival mechanism. We should of course be thankful it happened because the product is much higher than if it had started out F2P.
I'm not saying have hope for crowdfunding as a whole (or for every title) but that with one or two large successes it can showcase a new model or innovation that will get investors making one or a couple AAA titles in kind. As it is we play in a market that became far more inflated than it should have. There are not enough new veins of players being mined at the moment yet new smelters keep being built (Dwarf joke ). Something had/has to give. I just hope until some new product brings some fresh players those titles already out can maintain healthy financials.
Indeed you are, wrong and delusional would fit in too...
Thanks for that in depth contribution to the debate. Oh look, I can do a LoL too.
It's okay, the future will happen regardless of what any of us say and no amount of "I told you so" will make a difference (at least shouldn't). There are certain rules and realities of business industries but unfortunately due to their artistic nature and evolving consumer relationship with MMOs, there is a certain romanticism people have about it. I'm glad to see the slowing of AAA MMOs and hopefully after the crowdfunded titles get rolling a few will organically become a big budget title.
In another post recently I commented on the fact that so many said this was coming and it had no effect. The only effect you will have on the gaming industry is to vote with your feet. Do not play games you think are detrimental to gaming. But even that matters little as the market being chased by gaming companies is not the gamers who adhere to "old" standards or indeed any standards other than what they, the companies set.
The slowing, indeed near death of AAA releases is not to be welcomed. You are rather optimistic about crowdfunding, I see some bigger budget MMO releases in the future certainly, but these will not match AAA budgets. The best MMOs of today were those that were AAA and started as P2P. They are hardly perfect and certainly crowdfunding gives more creative freedom, but their slow down can only be a loss to the genre.
The slowing of AAA MMOs in their current format or "model" is to be welcomed because since no real new ones are happening (some to come this year IMO) every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles. This is bad for the industry more than the slowing of releases. P2P MMOs coming out as quality F2P titles was a phase not to be repeated due to that fact the transition was not planned, it was a survival mechanism. We should of course be thankful it happened because the product is much higher than if it had started out F2P.
I'm not saying have hope for crowdfunding as a whole (or for every title) but that with one or two large successes it can showcase a new model or innovation that will get investors making one or a couple AAA titles in kind. As it is we play in a market that became far more inflated than it should have. There are not enough new veins of players being mined at the moment yet new smelters keep being built (Dwarf joke ). Something had/has to give. I just hope until some new product brings some fresh players those titles already out can maintain healthy financials.
A house from the 1800's:
A modern house:
An indie housing development:
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Indeed you are, wrong and delusional would fit in too...
Thanks for that in depth contribution to the debate. Oh look, I can do a LoL too.
It's okay, the future will happen regardless of what any of us say and no amount of "I told you so" will make a difference (at least shouldn't). There are certain rules and realities of business industries but unfortunately due to their artistic nature and evolving consumer relationship with MMOs, there is a certain romanticism people have about it. I'm glad to see the slowing of AAA MMOs and hopefully after the crowdfunded titles get rolling a few will organically become a big budget title.
In another post recently I commented on the fact that so many said this was coming and it had no effect. The only effect you will have on the gaming industry is to vote with your feet. Do not play games you think are detrimental to gaming. But even that matters little as the market being chased by gaming companies is not the gamers who adhere to "old" standards or indeed any standards other than what they, the companies set.
The slowing, indeed near death of AAA releases is not to be welcomed. You are rather optimistic about crowdfunding, I see some bigger budget MMO releases in the future certainly, but these will not match AAA budgets. The best MMOs of today were those that were AAA and started as P2P. They are hardly perfect and certainly crowdfunding gives more creative freedom, but their slow down can only be a loss to the genre.
The slowing of AAA MMOs in their current format or "model" is to be welcomed because since no real new ones are happening (some to come this year IMO) every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles. This is bad for the industry more than the slowing of releases. P2P MMOs coming out as quality F2P titles was a phase not to be repeated due to that fact the transition was not planned, it was a survival mechanism. We should of course be thankful it happened because the product is much higher than if it had started out F2P.
I'm not saying have hope for crowdfunding as a whole (or for every title) but that with one or two large successes it can showcase a new model or innovation that will get investors making one or a couple AAA titles in kind. As it is we play in a market that became far more inflated than it should have. There are not enough new veins of players being mined at the moment yet new smelters keep being built (Dwarf joke ). Something had/has to give. I just hope until some new product brings some fresh players those titles already out can maintain healthy financials.
Only relevant to the part where you said: "every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles."
There's a very good reason why they resemble each other... just like houses and that 4 walls + a roof thing.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
CD Projekt Red are about the only AAA developer who I still respect and view as aiming for more than minimum effort and maximum profit. I hope we, gamers, continue to support and reward them for this in hoping some others come back from the dark side.
I don't even like the premise behind Cyberpunk and I plan to buy it solely to support them, how often is that a thing now-a-days?
The only wildcard is Amazon Games Studio, we'll see if they join the ever-growing list of corporate disappointments or stand out.
"solely to support them", does that make CD Projekt Red the new Blizzard?
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Meh... I am of the age now where I have little interest in mainstream gaming and it's shady business practices, especially in this era of MOBAs and whatever. If E Sports blows up then I will have even less interest in it.
I'm happy with playing old titles, the odd indie thing that comes along, and, right now, P99 for my MMORPG fix.
The mainstream lost me a while back with their exploitative unethical revenue models and outright lies. I'm still a gamer though, I'm just not one that has much interest in where we have arrived at.
CD Projekt Red are about the only AAA developer who I still respect and view as aiming for more than minimum effort and maximum profit. I hope we, gamers, continue to support and reward them for this in hoping some others come back from the dark side. I don't even like the premise behind Cyberpunk and I plan to buy it solely to support them, how often is that a thing now-a-days?
The only wildcard is Amazon Games Studio, we'll see if they join the ever-growing list of corporate disappointments or stand out.
Minimum effort?
Can you please an example of a AAA studio doing a minimum effort game?
MMO games take a ridiculous amount of effort especially the AAA titles - now if you don't like them, that's fine, but to say they took minimum effort is just well - complete bullshit.
I think many people feel that "localization" is minimal effort. That is why we see posts with little or no tolerance for the time it takes. They feel localization should take as long as a google translate effort. So for an example pick any Eastern game that has been localized.
I'm not saying that any Eastern game was produced with minimum effort. Remember what the loudest segment of gaming wants out of MMO gaming to spend no money. Once a game makes them feel they have to spend money, then it fails. Because it is just a money grab. Listen, if we took the biggest failure of an MMO, and made it absolutely free, then it would be the number one MMO ever.
Also, there is a segment of gaming that don't know who or where their games are made. Because their game is in English, they think it was made in an English speaking country by an English speaking developer. I am not stating this is the case here, I'm informing that it is the case around the web.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Only relevant to the part where you said: "every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles."
There's a very good reason why they resemble each other... just like houses and that 4 walls + a roof thing.
If all MMOs need to be like the model we see currently, things will be worse for the industry than I think. Let's not hope something as drastic as preverbal "round walls" are needed to get AAA production looking appealing to investors.
If using the same house analogy, the modern MMOs are those neighborhoods that just pop up along a new road. They each look a little different: Different colors, some stone siding and some wood, the floor plan mirrored here and there but they all have the same amenities and general "feel." Some in the KS/EA scene are producing houses that feel "different" and from one or two of those the mass producers may decide to use as a new template.
That said I don't think at this point anything known is going to be that new template, and we may not get another one. We may need to get used to lower budget, unique titles that find their own niche in the industry. I think the next template will need to utilize new technologies (voice activation/interaction, quest AI that allows a semi-unique experience without Las Vegas symbolism, a method of procedural generation to not only curb cost but make the world feel natural) along with the ability to garner some cultural attention like WoW did, such as a recognizable IP or compelling story that is easy to market.
Actually the money for investors right now may be designing these AI and procedural tools and/or find a platform to combine them .
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Can you please an example of a AAA studio doing a minimum effort game?
MMO games take a ridiculous amount of effort especially the AAA titles - now if you don't like them, that's fine, but to say they took minimum effort is just well - complete bullshit.
You are mistaking effort with resources.
AAA games put lots of resources not so much effort. What they do is copy each other, that's not effort, it's laziness at its best.
Putting lots of effort means trying to do something different and make it work, an AAA games lack in that department.
Only relevant to the part where you said: "every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles."
There's a very good reason why they resemble each other... just like houses and that 4 walls + a roof thing.
If all MMOs need to be like the model we see currently, things will be worse for the industry than I think. Let's not hope something as drastic as preverbal "round walls" are needed to get AAA production looking appealing to investors.
If using the same house analogy, the modern MMOs are those neighborhoods that just pop up along a new road. They each look a little different: Different colors, some stone siding and some wood, the floor plan mirrored here and there but they all have the same amenities and general "feel." Some in the KS/EA scene are producing houses that feel "different" and from one or two of those the mass producers may decide to use as a new template.
That said I don't think at this point anything known is going to be that new template, and we may not get another one. We may need to get used to lower budget, unique titles that find their own niche in the industry. I think the next template will need to utilize new technologies (voice activation/interaction, quest AI that allows a semi-unique experience without Las Vegas symbolism, a method of procedural generation to not only curb cost but make the world feel natural) along with the ability to garner some cultural attention like WoW did, such as a recognizable IP or compelling story that is easy to market.
Actually the money for investors right now may be designing these AI and procedural tools and/or find a platform to combine them .
But those old houses did have character. Not like the pre-fab ones of today, or tomorrow it would seem.
The only conclusion I can draw from former AAA P2P MMOs now being among the top F2P MMOs is that big budget equals better game. Now we all know money is no guarantee, but this is why I don't think we will get used to a lower budget.
Asking players to take steps forward in gameplay while they take steps backward in terms of graphics may be too big an ask. As I fan of gameplay first and foremost I hope you are right.
Console and mobile gaming? What's that? Seriously, I don't use either ANY MORE. Mobile is just terrible because of the small screen and consoles are still nothing but dumbed down computers. I will now and always stay with my PC (which at 5 years old is still better then any console out today).
Console and mobile gaming? What's that? Seriously, I don't use either ANY MORE. Mobile is just terrible because of the small screen and consoles are still nothing but dumbed down computers. I will now and always stay with my PC (which at 5 years old is still better then any console out today).
I have to agree and only hope we can make more players see the light. But at least consoles are not detrimental to gaming, which mobile games are.
Comments
the clamoring for all this retro/backwards compatible games..people would rather play something old than branch out and try something new
too many just..meh indie titles
yearly push of titles that need a longer dev cycle...CoD..sports titles..etc..all need to go on a bi-yearly cycle or something
too much put on Dev's to make a company money and not a good game..so things get rushed
I think a lot of the hunger for retro stuff is a result of the aging of the largest demographic in the "traditional" gaming industry. The same thing happens a lot with people's taste in music--it stops changing once they reach a certain age and begin investing more of their time in their careers and families. I've always adopted new hardware and stayed interested in gaming as it evolved, just as I've always kept my ears open for bands I had never been exposed to before. The same can't be said for many of my friends, though, who would rather play some 8-bit or 16-bit classic for the 20th time than invest their time and money in a more recent game and who continue to listen to the same music they were listening to in their teens.
As for the annual release cycles, I agree. Still we all seem to think that we're burned out on the Assassin's Creeds and Call of Duties, and then they spend months on the best seller lists every year. To their credit, though, most have long-since stopped being rushed out the door in 11 months...CoD is now rotated between 3 different studios, so each one gets almost 3 years to complete their game.
I hate this idea that all the devs are just lazy.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Hey, if these games are good enough for you, that is great.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
NFL is doing well right now, however is equally irrelevant to the conversation.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In another post recently I commented on the fact that so many said this was coming and it had no effect. The only effect you will have on the gaming industry is to vote with your feet. Do not play games you think are detrimental to gaming. But even that matters little as the market being chased by gaming companies is not the gamers who adhere to "old" standards or indeed any standards other than what they, the companies set.
The slowing, indeed near death of AAA releases is not to be welcomed. You are rather optimistic about crowdfunding, I see some bigger budget MMO releases in the future certainly, but these will not match AAA budgets. The best MMOs of today were those that were AAA and started as P2P. They are hardly perfect and certainly crowdfunding gives more creative freedom, but their slow down can only be a loss to the genre.
When WoW launched there were posts that it wasn't an mmo (dumbed down); nor was GW1 (instanced) or SWTOR (solo quest driven) and more recently there has been discussion on Destiny (mmo-lite), ESO (is it or isn't it) or even The Division.
Should we be drawing a line in the sand and saying these are mmos, these are not.
We probably all have our own "ideal definition" of what an mmo is though; probaby shaped by our own experiences. Give a group of us a list of 5 games and ask us to say which are mmos, which are not and you might not get 5! - 5 factorial, 120 answers - but it will be several. Make it 10 games and the number of possible combinations is over 3.6M, with 15 games its over 1.3 trillion.
Against this backdrop developers are stumbling around trying to create a winning combination of features. Trying to "guarantee" a niche market whilst hoping to strike gold and hit it big.
If mmos are evolving then the genre could be said to be in excellent health. Whether "we" will recognise the games that come out as mmos though ..... ?
Many examples of which can be found in the "perserverence" thread: http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7096171/#Comment_7096171
Thanks, but no thanks.
You and I read different articles then because although the one I read often asked "How does this affect MMOs?", the highlights of the article were AAA console games, mobile games, and eSports, none of which have been traditionally linked to the MMO industry. They even used Mass Effect: Andromeda as the thumbnail pic.
And ratings and revenue are actually noticeably down this NFL season. It's an apt comparison, though, because just like the gaming industry, even as we're talking about the decline of the NFL, they're still bringing in billions and the mass appeal isn't going anywhere.
The slowing of AAA MMOs in their current format or "model" is to be welcomed because since no real new ones are happening (some to come this year IMO) every AAA released cannibalizes n other titles. This is bad for the industry more than the slowing of releases. P2P MMOs coming out as quality F2P titles was a phase not to be repeated due to that fact the transition was not planned, it was a survival mechanism. We should of course be thankful it happened because the product is much higher than if it had started out F2P.
I'm not saying have hope for crowdfunding as a whole (or for every title) but that with one or two large successes it can showcase a new model or innovation that will get investors making one or a couple AAA titles in kind. As it is we play in a market that became far more inflated than it should have. There are not enough new veins of players being mined at the moment yet new smelters keep being built (Dwarf joke
). Something had/has to give. I just hope until some new product brings some fresh players those titles already out can maintain healthy financials.
A modern house:
An indie housing development:
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
There's a very good reason why they resemble each other... just like houses and that 4 walls + a roof thing.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"solely to support them", does that make CD Projekt Red the new Blizzard?
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I'm happy with playing old titles, the odd indie thing that comes along, and, right now, P99 for my MMORPG fix.
The mainstream lost me a while back with their exploitative unethical revenue models and outright lies. I'm still a gamer though, I'm just not one that has much interest in where we have arrived at.
I think many people feel that "localization" is minimal effort. That is why we see posts with little or no tolerance for the time it takes. They feel localization should take as long as a google translate effort. So for an example pick any Eastern game that has been localized.
I'm not saying that any Eastern game was produced with minimum effort. Remember what the loudest segment of gaming wants out of MMO gaming to spend no money. Once a game makes them feel they have to spend money, then it fails. Because it is just a money grab. Listen, if we took the biggest failure of an MMO, and made it absolutely free, then it would be the number one MMO ever.
Also, there is a segment of gaming that don't know who or where their games are made. Because their game is in English, they think it was made in an English speaking country by an English speaking developer. I am not stating this is the case here, I'm informing that it is the case around the web.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
If all MMOs need to be like the model we see currently, things will be worse for the industry than I think. Let's not hope something as drastic as preverbal "round walls" are needed to get AAA production looking appealing to investors.
If using the same house analogy, the modern MMOs are those neighborhoods that just pop up along a new road. They each look a little different: Different colors, some stone siding and some wood, the floor plan mirrored here and there but they all have the same amenities and general "feel." Some in the KS/EA scene are producing houses that feel "different" and from one or two of those the mass producers may decide to use as a new template.
That said I don't think at this point anything known is going to be that new template, and we may not get another one. We may need to get used to lower budget, unique titles that find their own niche in the industry. I think the next template will need to utilize new technologies (voice activation/interaction, quest AI that allows a semi-unique experience without Las Vegas symbolism, a method of procedural generation to not only curb cost but make the world feel natural) along with the ability to garner some cultural attention like WoW did, such as a recognizable IP or compelling story that is easy to market.
Actually the money for investors right now may be designing these AI and procedural tools and/or find a platform to combine them .
And the keyboard mouse thing.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You are mistaking effort with resources.
AAA games put lots of resources not so much effort.
What they do is copy each other, that's not effort, it's laziness at its best.
Putting lots of effort means trying to do something different and make it work, an AAA games lack in that department.
The only conclusion I can draw from former AAA P2P MMOs now being among the top F2P MMOs is that big budget equals better game. Now we all know money is no guarantee, but this is why I don't think we will get used to a lower budget.
Asking players to take steps forward in gameplay while they take steps backward in terms of graphics may be too big an ask. As I fan of gameplay first and foremost I hope you are right.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I have to agree and only hope we can make more players see the light. But at least consoles are not detrimental to gaming, which mobile games are.