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This How We Combine PVE and PVP players
nerovergil
Member UncommonPosts: 680
1. Open world PVP
2. Flag systems - Default is PVE, player can change to PVP and can attack and be attacked by other PVP players. PVE players cant be attacked. Players that have the same party will team up to kill other PVP players (including guild mates) unless they are party allies. PVP players can attack npc and capture town, castle, nodes, caravans. players cant change flag inside a city. And also, pvp caravan give more golds than pve caravan. like pvp get 50 golds and pve caravans get 5 golds. high risk high rewards.
3. This will lead to spying. Who cares its just a game anyway. Win lose doesn't matter, what matter is more people playing it.
4. PVP matchmaking SPVP GW2 style for hardcore pvp players
2. Flag systems - Default is PVE, player can change to PVP and can attack and be attacked by other PVP players. PVE players cant be attacked. Players that have the same party will team up to kill other PVP players (including guild mates) unless they are party allies. PVP players can attack npc and capture town, castle, nodes, caravans. players cant change flag inside a city. And also, pvp caravan give more golds than pve caravan. like pvp get 50 golds and pve caravans get 5 golds. high risk high rewards.
3. This will lead to spying. Who cares its just a game anyway. Win lose doesn't matter, what matter is more people playing it.
4. PVP matchmaking SPVP GW2 style for hardcore pvp players
Post edited by nerovergil on
Comments
I prefer special PVP maps instead of flag .
2. What's the point of capturing towns if you can't enforce rules, taxes, prohibited areas, etc?
2. pvp players can do that.
A PvE only guild will decline wars and if you don't want PvP you don't join a guild doing it.
You can take that further and adding realms or causes with constant war a guild can champion to get some RvR as well.
Of course being in a war should have limits, for Guild Vs Guild there should be a time limit (like a week) followed by a cooldown of about the same time so the guilds fights different opponents. For realm, cause or faction you should have a running cost like a tax or something since it will give people participating rewards (XP and either randomly generated loot, gold from losing players or even gear depending on how hardcore you want things running).
But the real problem with PvP is the MMO mechanics with a huge powerlevel still means the PvP will often be rather dull unless only max level characters join it or you have a downlevel mechanics similar to GW2s. PvP is only really fun when people are rather close in power, close enough at least that the fight could end either way (that doesn't mean even, one side still could have a rather large advantage but they can't autowin).
I know many MMOers generally dislike being downleveled or have low powergaps but most PvPers will actually have a more fun time with a system like it once they try it, fights will be more challenging and winning will be the sweeter. You can also skip the mechanics for PvE and only downlevel people when they get in proximity of someone PvP flagged to them, it is not that hard to fix as long as the downlevel is right for the zone but it would probably be best to have it always on like in GW2, avoids screwups and exploits.
2. Again, what's the point of controlling a city if even primarily PvP players can just unflag themselves and do whatever they want in an enemy city up to and including killstealing, taunting the city's owners, and refusing to pay taxes?
The simplest solution is to only allow changing of the flag in neutral/friendly cities (not under siege) or at specific npcs that stands far away from the action. And logging off should not change the flag in that case.
You could still get surprise attacks by groups that coordinated to log in at a specific point and time, but that too can be fixed by moving anyone logging in to the closest none contested friendly area.
And of course you can have a mechanics that makes players who don't pay taxes permanently PvP flagged in town if you run a tax system.
Personally do I still prefer guilds that goes to war voluntary against enemy guilds and factions though, no flags.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Now if you were talking about city guards or things like that then yeah that is fine though.
Seperate servers have worked just fine, for a while. Look at EQ. The developers looked at UO and thought that a group of players coming up to you, beating you down and taking your stuff wasn't fun for some. They were rewarded for it in the end. There are many ways to "skin a cat" and MMOs are no different.
If you want to effectively do that, you need to provide two games worth of content into one. The playstyles are pretty different overall. This means two seperate progression structures (like DAoC RR), two seperate areas of landmass, and preferably two seperate sets of gear. Reason is you want players of each style to feel as though they have an equal place and purpse in the world. Also, having seperate progression, land and gear may pull some of those on the fence about being in the OWPvP areas. Additionally, having two gear sets stops PvPers from PvEing for gear and then jumping back in.
Having the ability to attack or not attack is easy. Making sure both sides feel "loved" is the hard part.
EvE. You are very exposed when finding content (star gate choke points, even WHs but almost no one camps those). However once you are at content the only way you're getting caught is if you are not sufficiently aware (even if you have a BS or more that has a minute long align time you still have the option of adding obstacles at the gate, and using more scouts). Stealth is set up so that if an attacker wants to use it they have to use very specialized ships (with critcal weaknesses: no tank, no energy, or require support), or be very passive. (refering to one of my old play styles of being a neutral in 0.0 space)
Haven and Hearth. If you act like a PvPer you expose yourself to more PvPer. If you trespass someone can learn your name, if you steal someone can track down your home, if you kill someone can do all of that and force your character to log in to be killed. Likewise there are no magical banks, safe zones, ability/exp protection, or similar. If you have an item it's in the world somewhere, if you die you could lose up to 100% of your experience/stats, and there is no where for a target to hide if they can be tracked by a scent.
Screeps. The game is balanced so that setting up defenses takes multitudes of more programming skill than attack code, but the defender has more resources+tools at their disposal... Which means attacks actually take a while of probing defences and finding where they are weak, unless you get lucky. Likewise there are no artificial protections for any party to really hide behind, Your empire is just in the world and there (no banks, no forever safe zones, and similar).
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Quite simply put I would never play a game designed for you, since it's designed so that the PvPers have access to too many game mechanic protections.
In H&H/Screeps if someone is an arse, they just will not live long. They might get a bit of epic salt, but after that happens the community will just not let them stay around. I love the tears of a PvPer after they realize they either need to join a community (and be sane), or watch their ill gotten gains disappear every week (maybe more often).
In EvE if a PvPer is looking for the prey-i-est of victiums they are going to have to fight highsec mechanics that work against them, or find prey in territory they don't even have access to basic mechanics (like repair, refitting, intel, and safety). That or fight other people who are prepared for them in LS, or NPC null.
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Likewise even your "Iron Wall" flag system is still designed to give more mechanics to the PvPers: "Fight me, or lose access to basic resources/services". While they still have access to respawn, safe banking mechanics, and similar. There is just no way to get rid of the "Bad Guys", which means there is no accomplishment or similar. Just a silly and pretty lame of a cycle of whack a mole.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you are going for 2 serversets the PvP server needs a far lower powergap, both with stats and gear unless you can figure out mechanics that works just as good for PvE and PvP, something all MMOs I ever played (besides Eve) have failed to do. Of course, games with 1 servertype and both PvE and PvP have the exact same problem, PvP and PvE must be equally fun or you really should skip the one you do worst and focus on making the thing you are good at as good as you can.
Making a game with 2 totally different mechanics is more expensive but if you pull it off you would increase the profit a lot. MMO PvP is usually far less fun then PvP in other genres and with fun PvP you would steal most PvPers from other MMOs as well as getting people from other genres into MMOs. It is certainly not easy, the MMOs I played with best PvP is DaoC and Guildwars, most others pretty much suck.
What games were you playing?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As well, just have full pvp planets , islands, wherever people simply know where to go and where not.
It's funny you say this because the next post I made echoed the same sentiment, though you couldn't have seen it while responding to the above
My only comment here was that the removal of PvP as a required element was not a new occurrence.