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Blizzard cracks down on Real-Money Raid Clearing - World of Warcraft - MMORPG.com

BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
edited March 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageBlizzard cracks down on Real-Money Raid Clearing - World of Warcraft - MMORPG.com

World of Warcraft News - Blizzard is cracking down on violators of the terms of service for World of Warcraft - effectively banning people who are offering to help clear raids in exchange for real world money. Keep in mind, selling these services for in-game gold is fine. It's the folks offering to do it for real money that are getting the boot.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    edited March 2017
    Still won't be able to be proven you just use a service like Player Auctions, G2A, or any other 3rd party service which allows players to list their own virtual items for sale, I have even seen listings on Ebay...

    Blizzard won't be able to ban someone just for running a raid with someone its unlikely, but selling services outside won't be able to be tracked as in the buyer wont get banned.

    Also I would only use outside methods of communication when doing illegal transactions as GM's can read in game mail and IM's its common sense that for the security of both the buyer and seller you don't talk about RMT related in game at all but instead if talking say "Pay me 1 gold" for the run and I will turn you" or 100 gold, this makes it look like a regular gold one as there is transaction history between both players, and then the only way to punish people for this would be to punish legal players who actually just do it for gold which Blizzard said was legal.
  • Kunai_VaxKunai_Vax Member RarePosts: 527
    Its just smoke. Nothing will come of it.

  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    How desperate do you have to be to pay real money for raiding? Sad how people have just reduced everything to such gross quantification. No pride no effort just cash.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057

    Kunai_Vax said:

    Its just smoke. Nothing will come of it.



    My money is on Blizzard making something come of it.

    As they have shown the willingness to spend the money to do so.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057

    Renoaku said:

    Still won't be able to be proven you just use a service like Player Auctions, G2A, or any other 3rd party service which allows players to list their own virtual items for sale, I have even seen listings on Ebay...



    Blizzard won't be able to ban someone just for running a raid with someone its unlikely, but selling services outside won't be able to be tracked as in the buyer wont get banned.



    Also I would only use outside methods of communication when doing illegal transactions as GM's can read in game mail and IM's its common sense that for the security of both the buyer and seller you don't talk about RMT related in game at all but instead if talking say "Pay me 1 gold" for the run and I will turn you" or 100 gold, this makes it look like a regular gold one as there is transaction history between both players, and then the only way to punish people for this would be to punish legal players who actually just do it for gold which Blizzard said was legal.



    You do realize Blizz can easily have their representatives engage these "outside" services and hire them.

    Soon as the raid forms up, boom hammer drops and participants are all banned, including the Blizz "customer"

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    Aori said:
    Renoaku said:
    Still won't be able to be proven you just use a service like Player Auctions, G2A, or any other 3rd party service which allows players to list their own virtual items for sale, I have even seen listings on Ebay...

    Blizzard won't be able to ban someone just for running a raid with someone its unlikely, but selling services outside won't be able to be tracked as in the buyer wont get banned.

    Also I would only use outside methods of communication when doing illegal transactions as GM's can read in game mail and IM's its common sense that for the security of both the buyer and seller you don't talk about RMT related in game at all but instead if talking say "Pay me 1 gold" for the run and I will turn you" or 100 gold, this makes it look like a regular gold one as there is transaction history between both players, and then the only way to punish people for this would be to punish legal players who actually just do it for gold which Blizzard said was legal.
    I think you're underestimating Blizzard. 
    I know how shitty Blizzard is from when I played wow, just like how shitty the GM's are in Arche Age...

    Back in the day in Arche Age when you wanted to launder RMT Gold you would buy archem trees all off the market with illegal gold, plant them for 3 days, and harvest them on an alt later  and basically the GM's would remove the 100 gold you have left from the illegal transaction you would get your money back by collecting archem and selling it making thousands of gold back...

    With WOW when people account share for illegal power leveling you just call in and claim your account was hacked don't have an Authenticator you get your account back every time just don't do this too much, same with League OF Legends, they rather keep you happy and business than having people talking negative about their game everywhere unless without reason they can absolutely prove you gave your information away I happen to know about Blizzard and how they work lol.

    I also have nothing against people selling their Real Life time for real money as long as they aren't spamming, or selling services in game what people do outside the game is none of my business.
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member EpicPosts: 3,368
    and how they know is with real money , u can hire a full raid and talk about price OUTSIDE the game (TS , Ventrilo , Mumble ect) , paypal , and done
  • Moguy3Moguy3 Member UncommonPosts: 70
    Yall are missing the fact that Blizzard can pay these people to do a raid. Show up and ban the whole raid. Its just that simple. Sneaky sneaky outside the game still has its very bad consequences.
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098

    Aori said:


    Renoaku said:

    Still won't be able to be proven you just use a service like Player Auctions, G2A, or any other 3rd party service which allows players to list their own virtual items for sale, I have even seen listings on Ebay...



    Blizzard won't be able to ban someone just for running a raid with someone its unlikely, but selling services outside won't be able to be tracked as in the buyer wont get banned.



    Also I would only use outside methods of communication when doing illegal transactions as GM's can read in game mail and IM's its common sense that for the security of both the buyer and seller you don't talk about RMT related in game at all but instead if talking say "Pay me 1 gold" for the run and I will turn you" or 100 gold, this makes it look like a regular gold one as there is transaction history between both players, and then the only way to punish people for this would be to punish legal players who actually just do it for gold which Blizzard said was legal.


    I think you're underestimating Blizzard. 



    The only way Blizzard can track third party's down, is either by hacking their sites and downloading their transaction database or by activily participating in it and having resources assigned to buy these services themselves to track down the sellers ingame.

    The latter is ofcourse not unthinkable and could be done ofcourse, but labor intensive and suprising if Blizzard is even bothering spending money on this, seeing how RMT has gone rampant since release unchecked!
  • akdereburakderebur Member UncommonPosts: 8
    edited March 2017
    They can't really do anyhing about it and I mean not just Blizzard, game companies in general. Ingame service for real money isn't something new, especially for WoW. If they can prevent it what were they doing for 13 years? They just like to bring this topic up time to time, to seem they are actually trying/able to prevent it.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    edited March 2017
    Moguy3 said:
    Yall are missing the fact that Blizzard can pay these people to do a raid. Show up and ban the whole raid. Its just that simple. Sneaky sneaky outside the game still has its very bad consequences.
    And the people doing the selling of services could write an agreement "If you are affiliated with Blizzard Entertainment" or an "Employee there" You may not purchase these services, and this could be used to sue Blizzard in a court.

    Again who cares about RMT, or people selling services, just ban the bots, cheaters, hackers, and people spamming or soliciting services in game problem solved what happens outside is between the parties involved Blizzard shouldn't get involved or care as Blizzard are not the police.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    Renoaku said:
    Moguy3 said:
    Yall are missing the fact that Blizzard can pay these people to do a raid. Show up and ban the whole raid. Its just that simple. Sneaky sneaky outside the game still has its very bad consequences.
    And the people doing the selling of services could write an agreement "If you are affiliated with Blizzard Entertainment" or an "Employee there" You may not purchase these services, and this could be used to sue Blizzard in a court.

    Again who cares about RMT, or people selling services, just ban the bots, cheaters, hackers, and people spamming or soliciting services in game problem solved what happens outside is between the parties involved Blizzard shouldn't get involved or care as Blizzard are not the police.
    Except...to complete the transaction they have to log into the game.....and Blizzard isn't getting their cut of the action. ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,157
    Kyleran said:
    Renoaku said:
    Moguy3 said:
    Yall are missing the fact that Blizzard can pay these people to do a raid. Show up and ban the whole raid. Its just that simple. Sneaky sneaky outside the game still has its very bad consequences.
    And the people doing the selling of services could write an agreement "If you are affiliated with Blizzard Entertainment" or an "Employee there" You may not purchase these services, and this could be used to sue Blizzard in a court.

    Again who cares about RMT, or people selling services, just ban the bots, cheaters, hackers, and people spamming or soliciting services in game problem solved what happens outside is between the parties involved Blizzard shouldn't get involved or care as Blizzard are not the police.
    Except...to complete the transaction they have to log into the game.....and Blizzard isn't getting their cut of the action. ;)
    Then perhaps gold sellers need to start doing business by trading "In game items" for services and then reselling them lol didn't they add like APEX, or something to the game that allows people to trade tokens or something freely?
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    edited March 2017

    Kyleran said:


    Renoaku said:


    Moguy3 said:

    Yall are missing the fact that Blizzard can pay these people to do a raid. Show up and ban the whole raid. Its just that simple. Sneaky sneaky outside the game still has its very bad consequences.


    And the people doing the selling of services could write an agreement "If you are affiliated with Blizzard Entertainment" or an "Employee there" You may not purchase these services, and this could be used to sue Blizzard in a court.

    Again who cares about RMT, or people selling services, just ban the bots, cheaters, hackers, and people spamming or soliciting services in game problem solved what happens outside is between the parties involved Blizzard shouldn't get involved or care as Blizzard are not the police.


    Except...to complete the transaction they have to log into the game.....and Blizzard isn't getting their cut of the action. ;)



    It also wouldn't hold up in court at ALL, since the act of selling the raid clear for RMT is against the TOS the players agree to in the first place.

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

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  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    I'm sure Blizzard will make a token effort, but just like any other RMT activity, it's too complex and labour-intensive to shut it down. 

    Illegal RMT is an entrenched part of online gaming these days. In fact, so many players use these "services" that stopping them entirely would probably impact player numbers noticeably... :lol:
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,949
    kitarad said:
    How desperate do you have to be to pay real money for raiding? Sad how people have just reduced everything to such gross quantification. No pride no effort just cash.
    all of this. 
    "Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."


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  • FelixMajorFelixMajor Member RarePosts: 865
    This is extremely sad and pathetic that people use these services.

    Originally posted by Arskaaa
    "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".

  • GremeGreme Member UncommonPosts: 66
    Just would like to point that those selling dungeon/raids boosts are most likely not the same people/groups that sell in-game gold for real money. To quote Blizzard "Of the players affected, many were members of top raiding guilds."

    My guess is Blizzard wants to accomplish two things with this announcement.

    While selling raid/dungeon clears for real money has been around for years now, in recent times, advertising of such services has gone completely out of hand. Not only trade chat is spammed with those adverts, you can also find plenty of them in Looking For Group tool. This happened because, until now, Blizzard did not take any visible actions against sellers of those services. Hopefully, with this announcement, those that offer such services, in order to not get caught, will move to 3rd party sites, which in turn will reduce the amount of in-game spam.

    And by saying "selling those things in exchange for in-game gold is perfectly legitimate" Blizzard hopes that part of those that buy such services, in fear of losing their accounts, will move to buying them for in-game gold, which can be acquired by buying WoW token for real money from Blizzard themselves. You could say that Blizzard wants their own share in profits from raid/dungeon boosting market.
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,916
    kitarad said:
    How desperate do you have to be to pay real money for raiding? Sad how people have just reduced everything to such gross quantification. No pride no effort just cash.
    Hell that's how I look at cash shops in general.

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  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558

    Renoaku said:


    Moguy3 said:

    Yall are missing the fact that Blizzard can pay these people to do a raid. Show up and ban the whole raid. Its just that simple. Sneaky sneaky outside the game still has its very bad consequences.


    And the people doing the selling of services could write an agreement "If you are affiliated with Blizzard Entertainment" or an "Employee there" You may not purchase these services, and this could be used to sue Blizzard in a court.

    Again who cares about RMT, or people selling services, just ban the bots, cheaters, hackers, and people spamming or soliciting services in game problem solved what happens outside is between the parties involved Blizzard shouldn't get involved or care as Blizzard are not the police.



    Oo, you re kidding, right?
  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894
    The DOJ isn't going to subpoena your Skype records because Blizzard thinks you violated their TOS and EULA.

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  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894
    edited March 2017
    For all the people that think this is "sad and pathetic" just remember their are career professionals out there that want to enjoy the content too without putting in the work of actually gearing their character. It's not about "pride" it's just about seeing the encounters. A few hundred dollars for some is an hours wage while for others it's an annual salary. It's all relative.

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  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,787
    Grakulen said:
    The DOJ isn't going to subpoena your Skype records because Blizzard thinks you violated their TOS and EULA.
    Blizzard does not need proof. They can ban anyone at any time.  So the DOJ has nothing to do with this.

    My guess is they already have an idea of how to catch some of the offenders and they shoot this out now so when the ban hammer comes in the next couple of months people will less likely to use the service. 

    This irrational idea that Blizzard has to follow some sort of rule of law or ethics is just absurd. 

    I don't care one way or another as I don't play games by them.  I just think its funny that people believe they need to get subpoena or even be half accurate in anything they do.  They could very easily have a list of gold spammers that they ban and say they hit the people selling raids and reduce the amount doing it by intimidation. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

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  • G4NK3DG4NK3D Member UncommonPosts: 97
    edited March 2017
    Grakulen said:
    For all the people that think this is "sad and pathetic" just remember their are career professionals out there that want to enjoy the content too without putting in the work of actually gearing their character. It's not about "pride" it's just about seeing the encounters. A few hundred dollars for some is an hours wage while for others it's an annual salary. It's all relative.
    If a few hundred dollars is someones annual salary then they need to seriously reconsider their career path......


    The real point here is that if people can't dedicate the time that it takes to get to a certain status in a game themselves without having to pay real money for it then they don't need to be playing that game.  If that's what they want then they should go play one of those Korean/Russian P2W games.  Blizzard doesn't want that for their game, accept it or stop playing.  Plain and simple.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,057
    DMKano said:
    Aori said:
    DMKano said:
    This is will be as effective as "war on drugs" in US
    Way easier to stop the distribution in this case.

    You know why all game companies say they will crack down on this - PR spin.

    It makes them look good to public.

    The actual work involved on doing this in reality is next to impossible.

    Same as war on drugs - oh look how good that makes us look!
    While both efforts perhaps are of questionable benefit I have to support them both as the evils they address wreck havoc if left unchecked.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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