Some people worry way too much about what other people enjoy or spend their money on. There isn't some conspiracy theory why games don't cater to old vets like the OP. Things have evolved just because a few old vets on here don't enjoy the way the genre evolved doesn't mean things are bad.
"Yesterday is history Tomorrow is a mystery but today is a gift.
Thats why they call it - present." -Oogway
Seems like OP likes to dwell in the past, maybe watch more kids shows, you can learn a lot
I'm 54 years old, been doing Kung Fu for 26 years and I can run an 18 year old into the ground, they barely can last a simple one hour class. I play video games and hang out with people in their 20's.
I'm completely up to speed on everything and do it all..... I can say for a fact their was wayyyy more freedom back then, it was much better !
Ok so lets say that it was better back in the day - now what?
Its not comming back, those days are never coming back.
No matter how much you think and talk about it, the past is done.
So why invest so much energy into it when its not going to bring the past back?
It's coming back and Pantheon will prove it's the establishment and not the people. People are being tricked into thinking they like stuff. They have the power and money to tell us so. You and I have no power unless you have an extra two million to advertise your opinion.
People are settling, sure people like games like BDO, but this is a different group of people here now, sure it's oblivious some like both. The mmo people have nothing !
Pantheon is not bringing the past back.
It's bringing SOME old school elements back - but what Pantheon can't bring back is what made EQ1 really magic - the playerbase.
The playerbase has changed drastically after 17 years of MMOs - nobody can bring back the magic of EQ1 back.
Yeah, the thing some people don't seem to get is that even the vets who played EQ back in the day don't have the same approach to MMOs as they used to. A big part of the magic of EQ was that most of the people playing it were newbs playing their very first MMO. We were all a bunch of wide eyed MMO virgins in awe of this amazing new type of game. Not just a few of us were newbs---almost all of us were. That is something which will never ever happen again.
Now think about the sorts of things people did back then that they just wouldn't bother with these days. Spending days or weeks working on some low level quest for some crappy item when if you had spent the same time focused on leveling up you would have gotten to areas where even better items drop.
Sitting around spamming different languages at each other to teach them to each other----for absolutely no reason because knowing other languages never mattered.
Building up your fishing skill, lol. I remember standing around fishing for hours; not realizing that fishing was almost pointless in vanilla EQ.
Oh and all the other pointless things we did because it was all so new to us. Also the way we died so much more from inexperience.
It will never be the same again. Even if they just re-launched EQ as it was in 1999 (with improved graphics) and somehow got a large number of people to play it---it still wouldn't be like it was back in the day.
First of all,we all become wiser with age as we have seen changes and how systems and money ruin proper morals.
I'm fairly certain the people playing ESO, BDO, FFXIV, GW2, and even Revelation online feel they are playing MMOs and having fun in them.
Now this statement caught my ye because most of us have witnessed what is happening in gaming the last 10 years.What happens is media/marketing and notable streamers/you tubers have influenced people to jump on the bandwagon of every new game.What happens VERY quickly there after is a very high majority then leave the game. Here si the big question,HOW do people know they will have fun if they have yet to buy the game?The answer is they do NOT know,so in essence people are buying these games on a whim,point being that unless they took part in a free trial,they did not know they would hve fun.Thereby they have supported a developer that might not be deserving based solely on a whim,also see KS and crowd funding.
So the reasoning for purchasing these games and or spending money to get in would explain the very high exodus of players from these games.There are also other factors that keep people in a game NOT related to having fun.They bought it so are determined to get their money'\s worth and try to get to end game or their gf or bf or husband wife enjoys it so they tag along.They quickly meet new friends and like them more than the game so will continue to play just for the friendships.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MMO's changed to a business from 20% to 90%........ I know what your thinking, well yes, sure. Problem is it happened too fast and people noticed that mmos are not fun anymore. Add that mmo's are not mmos anymore. The trickery didn't go in the right direction. Their just video games where you log in, but the makers turn a larger profit for less content...... However many here didn't notice the trick. They believe the makers marketing strategy of saying this is what people want.
MMOs were always a business. Just because game companies hadn't yet figured out how to best monetize their games doesn't mean that they weren't interested in doing so.
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
Another fact is that early days there was yet to be any copying/clones,most games looked different and why i jumped on the bandwagon of every new phase of gaming until devs turned to real cheap games like mobile and moba's and arpg's.
To put it simple,it was gaming and selling your game,NOW it is more about exploiting all those naive and careless spenders. We should simply look at the fastest biggest craze in gaming history to see that everything i said is true>>>FARMVILLE.FUN?Where is that game now?Careless spending,millions were made selling stuff like fertilizer because people just had to compete versus others so spending was like an addiction just like casinos and gambling.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
MMO's changed to a business from 20% to 90%........ I know what your thinking, well yes, sure. Problem is it happened too fast and people noticed that mmos are not fun anymore. Add that mmo's are not mmos anymore. The trickery didn't go in the right direction. Their just video games where you log in, but the makers turn a larger profit for less content...... However many here didn't notice the trick. They believe the makers marketing strategy of saying this is what people want.
MMOs were always a business. Just because game companies hadn't yet figured out how to best monetize their games doesn't mean that they weren't interested in doing so.
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
Another fact is that early days there was yet to be any copying/clones,most games looked different and why i jumped on the bandwagon of every new phase of gaming until devs turned to real cheap games like mobile and moba's and arpg's.
To put it simple,it was gaming and selling your game,NOW it is more about exploiting all those naive and careless spenders. We should simply look at the fastest biggest craze in gaming history to see that everything i said is true>>>FARMVILLE.FUN?Where is that game now?Careless spending,millions were made selling stuff like fertilizer because people just had to compete versus others so spending was like an addiction just like casinos and gambling.
A little tip don't ever use the word "fact" in any post you ever do...There is nothing factual in any of your posts just opinions of a bitter old gamer who is upset the genre passed him by.
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
Another fact is that early days there was yet to be any copying/clones,most games looked different and why i jumped on the bandwagon of every new phase of gaming until devs turned to real cheap games like mobile and moba's and arpg's.
To put it simple,it was gaming and selling your game,NOW it is more about exploiting all those naive and careless spenders. We should simply look at the fastest biggest craze in gaming history to see that everything i said is true>>>FARMVILLE.FUN?Where is that game now?Careless spending,millions were made selling stuff like fertilizer because people just had to compete versus others so spending was like an addiction just like casinos and gambling.
People see "passion and effort" in what they enjoy most, it's as simple as that. I'm sure many modern gamers look at old games as bland and uninspired, just as many older gamers see modern games that way. It's that way with everything entertainment... From Music to games...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
MMO's changed to a business from 20% to 90%........ I know what your thinking, well yes, sure. Problem is it happened too fast and people noticed that mmos are not fun anymore. Add that mmo's are not mmos anymore. The trickery didn't go in the right direction. Their just video games where you log in, but the makers turn a larger profit for less content...... However many here didn't notice the trick. They believe the makers marketing strategy of saying this is what people want.
MMOs were always a business. Just because game companies hadn't yet figured out how to best monetize their games doesn't mean that they weren't interested in doing so.
Or maybe they've always been good at it! Fuck, we see enough people here, @delete5230 included who foam at the mouth for "old school games" which were essentially built as massive time sinks in order to get you to continue playing the game, and paying a subscription, indefinitely. He talks about how games these days are so light on content, but the really aren't, they're still significantly longer than the VAST majority of games. The difference is that they, ultimately, end. So if we're talking about trickery, take a look at who's still getting tricked with decade-old monetization strategies.
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
EQ1 PvE leveling was built around keeping you subbed for as long as possible.
Also exploiting naive gamers into paying a sub because options were limited.
Putting effort and passion into making a game first?!?!? LOL.
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
EQ1 PvE leveling was built around keeping you subbed for as long as possible.
Also exploiting naive gamers into paying a sub because options were limited.
Putting effort and passion into making a game first?!?!? LOL.
In all fairness I'm sure the devs of early MMORPGs never imagined they would be able to convince gamers to spend more than $12 a month on a game (after the initial purchase)
If they only had realized how easy it is to get consumers to part with huge sums of money, when there's no game even things would have gone differently regarding sub models.
It just didnt seem possible back then, sneaking up on customers with a low, but nearly endless monthly fee seemed the better approach.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
EQ1 PvE leveling was built around keeping you subbed for as long as possible.
Also exploiting naive gamers into paying a sub because options were limited.
Putting effort and passion into making a game first?!?!? LOL.
In all fairness I'm sure the devs of early MMORPGs never imagined they would be able to convince gamers to spend more than $12 a month on a game (after the initial purxhase)
If they only had realized how easy it is to get consumers to part with huge sums of money, when there's no game even things would have gone differently regarding sub models.
It just didnt seem possible back then, sneaking up on customers with a low, but nearly endless monthly fee seemed the better approach.
I don't know if it would have been possible. I remember my dad complaining about how this "Internet" thing was costing so much money and couldn't we just get a new "box" to hold more stuff......... sure dad, give me a couple hundred bucks and I'll get a bigger box to hold more Internet
I don't think that we, as a society, really thought this whole "Free" idea was even possible. Well, I'm still not totally convinced we think it's possible. Fuck, you can't even make something free these days without people yelling that it really isn't free, lol. A prime non-videogame example would be the 'In Rainbows' album by Radiohead which did a "Pay what you want" model. Apparently the band indicated that they actually made more money with that album, online, than any other album they did. The model was heavily criticized as the downfall of the music industry, but there are still bands and music execs.
I pay $15 a month for apple music for unlimited music or whatever. I think that's a pretty good deal. My songs are essentially rentals, but they don't cost me anything to download.
We should be thankful that we've got choice, but it feels like people are often more concerned that someone else paying more is getting more than them, even though that's how life works!!! If I pay for the deluxe model of car, and you don't, is it reasonable for you to complain that you don't get a reverse camera? Nope! Not really! Same as you, I think it's totally unfair that you are allowed to have multiple EVE accounts in order to be better than my one account!!
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
EQ1 PvE leveling was built around keeping you subbed for as long as possible.
Also exploiting naive gamers into paying a sub because options were limited.
Putting effort and passion into making a game first?!?!? LOL.
In all fairness I'm sure the devs of early MMORPGs never imagined they would be able to convince gamers to spend more than $12 a month on a game (after the initial purxhase)
If they only had realized how easy it is to get consumers to part with huge sums of money, when there's no game even things would have gone differently regarding sub models.
It just didnt seem possible back then, sneaking up on customers with a low, but nearly endless monthly fee seemed the better approach.
I don't know if it would have been possible. I remember my dad complaining about how this "Internet" thing was costing so much money and couldn't we just get a new "box" to hold more stuff......... sure dad, give me a couple hundred bucks and I'll get a bigger box to hold more Internet
I don't think that we, as a society, really thought this whole "Free" idea was even possible. Well, I'm still not totally convinced we think it's possible. Fuck, you can't even make something free these days without people yelling that it really isn't free, lol. A prime non-videogame example would be the 'In Rainbows' album by Radiohead which did a "Pay what you want" model. Apparently the band indicated that they actually made more money with that album, online, than any other album they did. The model was heavily criticized as the downfall of the music industry, but there are still bands and music execs.
I pay $15 a month for apple music for unlimited music or whatever. I think that's a pretty good deal. My songs are essentially rentals, but they don't cost me anything to download.
We should be thankful that we've got choice, but it feels like people are often more concerned that someone else paying more is getting more than them, even though that's how life works!!! If I pay for the deluxe model of car, and you don't, is it reasonable for you to complain that you don't get a reverse camera? Nope! Not really! Same as you, I think it's totally unfair that you are allowed to have multiple EVE accounts in order to be better than my one account!!
That is the crux of the problem I believe. These are games and shouldn't be affected by reality. Wealthier one is wealthier in real life shouldn't matter. We play games to escape these types of matters. Fair or not doesn't enter into the equation with games or it shouldn't IMO. Regardless of being fair or not I find games more fun if I am not thinking about whether or not I should buy x item in a game. I am not as concerned with such things in music as it's a different type of medium, but we aren't charged for different parts of a song. We are charged per song or we pay a monthly fee for access to a collection. That is exactly how MMORPGs used to work. You paid a flat fee for the game and a monthly fee for access to the game.
Well yes of course bu the difference was you could see the effort and passion into the game FIRST and foremost and the business was second.The very existence of KS and crowd funding proves that.
EQ1 PvE leveling was built around keeping you subbed for as long as possible.
Also exploiting naive gamers into paying a sub because options were limited.
Putting effort and passion into making a game first?!?!? LOL.
In all fairness I'm sure the devs of early MMORPGs never imagined they would be able to convince gamers to spend more than $12 a month on a game (after the initial purxhase)
If they only had realized how easy it is to get consumers to part with huge sums of money, when there's no game even things would have gone differently regarding sub models.
It just didnt seem possible back then, sneaking up on customers with a low, but nearly endless monthly fee seemed the better approach.
I don't know if it would have been possible. I remember my dad complaining about how this "Internet" thing was costing so much money and couldn't we just get a new "box" to hold more stuff......... sure dad, give me a couple hundred bucks and I'll get a bigger box to hold more Internet
I don't think that we, as a society, really thought this whole "Free" idea was even possible. Well, I'm still not totally convinced we think it's possible. Fuck, you can't even make something free these days without people yelling that it really isn't free, lol. A prime non-videogame example would be the 'In Rainbows' album by Radiohead which did a "Pay what you want" model. Apparently the band indicated that they actually made more money with that album, online, than any other album they did. The model was heavily criticized as the downfall of the music industry, but there are still bands and music execs.
I pay $15 a month for apple music for unlimited music or whatever. I think that's a pretty good deal. My songs are essentially rentals, but they don't cost me anything to download.
We should be thankful that we've got choice, but it feels like people are often more concerned that someone else paying more is getting more than them, even though that's how life works!!! If I pay for the deluxe model of car, and you don't, is it reasonable for you to complain that you don't get a reverse camera? Nope! Not really! Same as you, I think it's totally unfair that you are allowed to have multiple EVE accounts in order to be better than my one account!!
That is the crux of the problem I believe. These are games and shouldn't be affected by reality. Wealthier one is wealthier in real life shouldn't matter. We play games to escape these types of matters. Fair or not doesn't enter into the equation with games or it shouldn't IMO. Regardless of being fair or not I find games more fun if I am not thinking about whether or not I should buy x item in a game. I am not as concerned with such things in music as it's a different type of medium, but we aren't charged for different parts of a song. We are charged per song or we pay a monthly fee for access to a collection. That is exactly how MMORPGs used to work. You paid a flat fee for the game and a monthly fee for access to the game.
We actually are charged for parts of the song. You are able to listen to a certain amount of the song on iTunes for free, but to listen to the entire thing, you need to buy it. Similarly, the way it used to be is I was forced to buy the entire album, even if I only liked one song.
My contention would be that in the vast majority of games, wealth plays a VERY minor role in in-game equality in SPITE of people being able to buy things in a cash shop. There are very few examples of cash shops which sell items which increase your power beyond what is obtainable through regular gameplay.
What is your take on these streamers who get all their subscribers to help them level more quickly in a game? Do you think this is more or less fair than a cash shop?
What about people who spend time in the PTR, training in order to level faster once the patch is released? Do you feel like that is fair?
It's bringing SOME old school elements back - but what Pantheon can't bring back is what made EQ1 really magic - the playerbase.
The playerbase has changed drastically after 17 years of MMOs - nobody can bring back the magic of EQ1 back.
While Pantheon wont have the exact playerbase as EQ more then a few vets will be playing.
I think that is beside the point, my theory is that the games themselves foster the players. If the game rewards co-operation and good behavior the players will move in that direction.
Nowadays most games lets people ninja loot stuff and quit the dungeon half off just to get in the next cross server dungeon queue straight after. If you acted that way on a 90s server you would get zero groups after a week, now it is easy and rewarding so it learns new players to be jerks.
And of course if the fastest way to level is to solo (and it have been so the last 10 years) people will more or less only solo to get to max level. Why bother learning group mechanics when you get as good loot and more XP playing by yourself?
The carrot is of course more powerful then the stick but games should encourage players to social behavior and to help eachother out. I think the worst combination for MMOs is the need and greed mechanics together with cross server or megaserver dungeonfinders, jerks will never be held responsible that way.
All that is from a PvE point though but the same principle go for PvP as well.
"Yesterday is history Tomorrow is a mystery but today is a gift.
Thats why they call it - present." -Oogway
Seems like OP likes to dwell in the past, maybe watch more kids shows, you can learn a lot
I'm 54 years old, been doing Kung Fu for 26 years and I can run an 18 year old into the ground, they barely can last a simple one hour class. I play video games and hang out with people in their 20's.
I'm completely up to speed on everything and do it all..... I can say for a fact their was wayyyy more freedom back then, it was much better !
Ok so lets say that it was better back in the day - now what?
Its not comming back, those days are never coming back.
No matter how much you think and talk about it, the past is done.
So why invest so much energy into it when its not going to bring the past back?
It's coming back and Pantheon will prove it's the establishment and not the people. People are being tricked into thinking they like stuff. They have the power and money to tell us so. You and I have no power unless you have an extra two million to advertise your opinion.
People are settling, sure people like games like BDO, but this is a different group of people here now, sure it's oblivious some like both. The mmo people have nothing !
You say people are being tricked into thinking they like stuff, yet you seem to be trying to trick people into thinking they want the old mmo life back.
Back then mmos were not better, they were great because there was nothing else so people back then had to settle and build a community from the little options they had at the time. Today the market is a cesspool so while it is easier to find good and bad mmos to play/pass, it is a lot harder to settle and make the same type of community. My opinion.
I played old games like Ultima Online, Asherons call Dark Age of Camelot etc. and let me tell you....
Those games are trash
I don't mean they weren't fun or engaging at the time, I'm just saying they are trash as in if you go back and try to play them now you will vomit at the interface, the graphics and the entire mechanics.
There is some Nostalgia I going back to a place where you spent years enjoying, but that's it. It's like, I wouldn't want to go back to High School no matter how many girls I was dating at the time.
Back then it was Atari 2600 playing "Kaboom" sporting 8 colors on an uncomfortable Paddle controller on a HUGE 20" Television with a total of 16 different "sounds" coming out a 2 inch speaker.
Today I'm Playing "For Honor" Multiplayer with random "Internet People" on a 70" Top of the line TV with 7.1 DTS Master surround sound on my couch with a controller that feels like I grew up in the womb with.
The old games were fun at the time, perhaps a good remake can bring them back and make them palatable again because the games themselves WERE very fun. But until that happens. Move on there's 10x more games to play every year
As a fellow grumpy old man, here is my own observation.
There is a niche of gamers who play flight simulators. Those folks relish complexity. The closer the game is to all the actual controls and issues posed by real flight, the happier they are.
Now, if someone wants to play Snoopy and the Red Baron instead and call themself a flight simulator player, the original flight simulator guys don't care. Have fun. Whatever makes you happy.
But if they stop making real flight simulators, to where various iterations of Snoopy games are all that are available, then life starts to suck. And flight simulator players begin to resent the new folks for, as they see it, messing up their thing. Get off my lawn!
Personally, I don't need or expect for every game to be old school like Everquest. I will settle for one.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I don't disagree with your post, I just wanted to point out that, at least in my city, all the malls are going out of business because first they made themselves a monoculture when trying to maximize profits (rather like MMOs after WoW) and now they can't compete with internet prices (which is comparable to the F2P > subscriptions phenomenon). I am often dismayed and disgusted by how little there is to do in my city, which is the second-largest in my state. We've got museums and even the national aviary, but they don't change at all from year to year. (I guess that one can be compared to players not wanting to play an MMO they've already played).
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I don't disagree with your post, I just wanted to point out that, at least in my city, all the malls are going out of business because first they made themselves a monoculture when trying to maximize profits (rather like MMOs after WoW) and now they can't compete with internet prices (which is comparable to the F2P > subscriptions phenomenon). I am often dismayed and disgusted by how little there is to do in my city, which is the second-largest in my state. We've got museums and even the national aviary, but they don't change at all from year to year. (I guess that one can be compared to players not wanting to play an MMO they've already played).
Pennsylvania? There really isn't a lot there. Heck, I had a relationship end because I wasn't willing to move there.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Pennsylvania? There really isn't a lot there. Heck, I had a relationship end because I wasn't willing to move there.
Yep. For people who are into camping and hiking Pennsylvania has some stuff, and I've heard Philadelphia has a lot of annual events like conventions, but generally no Pennsylvania doesn't have much entertainment going on. There are amusement parks and the medieval faire in summer, but again they don't change much from year to year and the amusement parks are both overcrowded and very expensive.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Pennsylvania? There really isn't a lot there. Heck, I had a relationship end because I wasn't willing to move there.
Yep. For people who are into camping and hiking Pennsylvania has some stuff, and I've heard Philadelphia has a lot of annual events like conventions, but generally no Pennsylvania doesn't have much entertainment going on. There are amusement parks and the medieval faire in summer, but again they don't change much from year to year and the amusement parks are both overcrowded and very expensive.
I managed to "escape" from Pennsylvania twice in my life, now I won't even drive through it. (It's a trap)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I played old games like Ultima Online, Asherons call Dark Age of Camelot etc. and let me tell you....
Those games are trash
I don't mean they weren't fun or engaging at the time, I'm just saying they are trash as in if you go back and try to play them now you will vomit at the interface, the graphics and the entire mechanics.
There is some Nostalgia I going back to a place where you spent years enjoying, but that's it.
LOL, I always wonder at the "Nostalgia Defense"
I put forth you never really like those old game which is why you feel they would be so bad now.
I'm playing a DAOC freeshard with a 2002 rule set, "horrible" UI, "bad" graphics" and "terrible" mechanics.
My friends and I are having the time of our lives, reliving past glories, reveling in victories, laughing our arses off when we are crushed.
Sure, at times we curse some of the game's shortcomings (but we must remain 1.65 compliant!) but the overall experience is outstanding. In fact I put forth the "mechanics" in this game are far superior to anything newer that I've played in the past 10 years.
The depth is amazing, you don't realize how shallow modern titles are until you experience one of the earlier ones once again.
I've actually turned down 4 group invites in the past 30 minutes, (wife aggro soon) and while there are some jerks here (always were) for the most part I no longer have to "fear the PUG". The folks on this server are a real pleasure to game with.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The point about the cost of real estate really pisses me off. I guess we have an exploding population to thank for that. 4 decades of pretty much open borders has pretty much painted us into a corner.
Comments
Yeah, the thing some people don't seem to get is that even the vets who played EQ back in the day don't have the same approach to MMOs as they used to. A big part of the magic of EQ was that most of the people playing it were newbs playing their very first MMO. We were all a bunch of wide eyed MMO virgins in awe of this amazing new type of game. Not just a few of us were newbs---almost all of us were. That is something which will never ever happen again.
Now think about the sorts of things people did back then that they just wouldn't bother with these days. Spending days or weeks working on some low level quest for some crappy item when if you had spent the same time focused on leveling up you would have gotten to areas where even better items drop.
Sitting around spamming different languages at each other to teach them to each other----for absolutely no reason because knowing other languages never mattered.
Building up your fishing skill, lol. I remember standing around fishing for hours; not realizing that fishing was almost pointless in vanilla EQ.
Oh and all the other pointless things we did because it was all so new to us. Also the way we died so much more from inexperience.
It will never be the same again. Even if they just re-launched EQ as it was in 1999 (with improved graphics) and somehow got a large number of people to play it---it still wouldn't be like it was back in the day.
I'm fairly certain the people playing ESO, BDO, FFXIV, GW2, and even Revelation online feel they are playing MMOs and having fun in them.
Now this statement caught my ye because most of us have witnessed what is happening in gaming the last 10 years.What happens is media/marketing and notable streamers/you tubers have influenced people to jump on the bandwagon of every new game.What happens VERY quickly there after is a very high majority then leave the game.
Here si the big question,HOW do people know they will have fun if they have yet to buy the game?The answer is they do NOT know,so in essence people are buying these games on a whim,point being that unless they took part in a free trial,they did not know they would hve fun.Thereby they have supported a developer that might not be deserving based solely on a whim,also see KS and crowd funding.
So the reasoning for purchasing these games and or spending money to get in would explain the very high exodus of players from these games.There are also other factors that keep people in a game NOT related to having fun.They bought it so are determined to get their money'\s worth and try to get to end game or their gf or bf or husband wife enjoys it so they tag along.They quickly meet new friends and like them more than the game so will continue to play just for the friendships.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Another fact is that early days there was yet to be any copying/clones,most games looked different and why i jumped on the bandwagon of every new phase of gaming until devs turned to real cheap games like mobile and moba's and arpg's.
To put it simple,it was gaming and selling your game,NOW it is more about exploiting all those naive and careless spenders.
We should simply look at the fastest biggest craze in gaming history to see that everything i said is true>>>FARMVILLE.FUN?Where is that game now?Careless spending,millions were made selling stuff like fertilizer because people just had to compete versus others so spending was like an addiction just like casinos and gambling.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Or maybe they've always been good at it! Fuck, we see enough people here, @delete5230 included who foam at the mouth for "old school games" which were essentially built as massive time sinks in order to get you to continue playing the game, and paying a subscription, indefinitely. He talks about how games these days are so light on content, but the really aren't, they're still significantly longer than the VAST majority of games. The difference is that they, ultimately, end. So if we're talking about trickery, take a look at who's still getting tricked with decade-old monetization strategies.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Also exploiting naive gamers into paying a sub because options were limited.
Putting effort and passion into making a game first?!?!? LOL.
If they only had realized how easy it is to get consumers to part with huge sums of money, when there's no game even things would have gone differently regarding sub models.
It just didnt seem possible back then, sneaking up on customers with a low, but nearly endless monthly fee seemed the better approach.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't know if it would have been possible. I remember my dad complaining about how this "Internet" thing was costing so much money and couldn't we just get a new "box" to hold more stuff......... sure dad, give me a couple hundred bucks and I'll get a bigger box to hold more Internet
I don't think that we, as a society, really thought this whole "Free" idea was even possible. Well, I'm still not totally convinced we think it's possible. Fuck, you can't even make something free these days without people yelling that it really isn't free, lol. A prime non-videogame example would be the 'In Rainbows' album by Radiohead which did a "Pay what you want" model. Apparently the band indicated that they actually made more money with that album, online, than any other album they did. The model was heavily criticized as the downfall of the music industry, but there are still bands and music execs.
I pay $15 a month for apple music for unlimited music or whatever. I think that's a pretty good deal. My songs are essentially rentals, but they don't cost me anything to download.
We should be thankful that we've got choice, but it feels like people are often more concerned that someone else paying more is getting more than them, even though that's how life works!!! If I pay for the deluxe model of car, and you don't, is it reasonable for you to complain that you don't get a reverse camera? Nope! Not really! Same as you, I think it's totally unfair that you are allowed to have multiple EVE accounts in order to be better than my one account!!
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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We actually are charged for parts of the song. You are able to listen to a certain amount of the song on iTunes for free, but to listen to the entire thing, you need to buy it. Similarly, the way it used to be is I was forced to buy the entire album, even if I only liked one song.
My contention would be that in the vast majority of games, wealth plays a VERY minor role in in-game equality in SPITE of people being able to buy things in a cash shop. There are very few examples of cash shops which sell items which increase your power beyond what is obtainable through regular gameplay.
What is your take on these streamers who get all their subscribers to help them level more quickly in a game? Do you think this is more or less fair than a cash shop?
What about people who spend time in the PTR, training in order to level faster once the patch is released? Do you feel like that is fair?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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I think that is beside the point, my theory is that the games themselves foster the players. If the game rewards co-operation and good behavior the players will move in that direction.
Nowadays most games lets people ninja loot stuff and quit the dungeon half off just to get in the next cross server dungeon queue straight after. If you acted that way on a 90s server you would get zero groups after a week, now it is easy and rewarding so it learns new players to be jerks.
And of course if the fastest way to level is to solo (and it have been so the last 10 years) people will more or less only solo to get to max level. Why bother learning group mechanics when you get as good loot and more XP playing by yourself?
The carrot is of course more powerful then the stick but games should encourage players to social behavior and to help eachother out. I think the worst combination for MMOs is the need and greed mechanics together with cross server or megaserver dungeonfinders, jerks will never be held responsible that way.
All that is from a PvE point though but the same principle go for PvP as well.
Back then mmos were not better, they were great because there was nothing else so people back then had to settle and build a community from the little options they had at the time. Today the market is a cesspool so while it is easier to find good and bad mmos to play/pass, it is a lot harder to settle and make the same type of community. My opinion.
Those games are trash
I don't mean they weren't fun or engaging at the time, I'm just saying they are trash as in if you go back and try to play them now you will vomit at the interface, the graphics and the entire mechanics.
There is some Nostalgia I going back to a place where you spent years enjoying, but that's it. It's like, I wouldn't want to go back to High School no matter how many girls I was dating at the time.
Back then it was Atari 2600 playing "Kaboom" sporting 8 colors on an uncomfortable Paddle controller on a HUGE 20" Television with a total of 16 different "sounds" coming out a 2 inch speaker.
Today I'm Playing "For Honor" Multiplayer with random "Internet People" on a 70" Top of the line TV with 7.1 DTS Master surround sound on my couch with a controller that feels like I grew up in the womb with.
The old games were fun at the time, perhaps a good remake can bring them back and make them palatable again because the games themselves WERE very fun. But until that happens. Move on there's 10x more games to play every year
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
There is a niche of gamers who play flight simulators. Those folks relish complexity. The closer the game is to all the actual controls and issues posed by real flight, the happier they are.
Now, if someone wants to play Snoopy and the Red Baron instead and call themself a flight simulator player, the original flight simulator guys don't care. Have fun. Whatever makes you happy.
But if they stop making real flight simulators, to where various iterations of Snoopy games are all that are available, then life starts to suck. And flight simulator players begin to resent the new folks for, as they see it, messing up their thing. Get off my lawn!
Personally, I don't need or expect for every game to be old school like Everquest. I will settle for one.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
]
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I put forth you never really like those old game which is why you feel they would be so bad now.
I'm playing a DAOC freeshard with a 2002 rule set, "horrible" UI, "bad" graphics" and "terrible" mechanics.
My friends and I are having the time of our lives, reliving past glories, reveling in victories, laughing our arses off when we are crushed.
Sure, at times we curse some of the game's shortcomings (but we must remain 1.65 compliant!) but the overall experience is outstanding. In fact I put forth the "mechanics" in this game are far superior to anything newer that I've played in the past 10 years.
The depth is amazing, you don't realize how shallow modern titles are until you experience one of the earlier ones once again.
I've actually turned down 4 group invites in the past 30 minutes, (wife aggro soon) and while there are some jerks here (always were) for the most part I no longer have to "fear the PUG". The folks on this server are a real pleasure to game with.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The truth is, they want you to think their stupid instead of corrupt.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee