Around The Verse Takes A Look At The Buccaneer Ship - Star Citizen - MMORPG.com

Shelassa · April 2017

Around The Verse Takes A Look At The Buccaneer Ship - Star Citizen - MMORPG.com

Star Citizen News - The Star Citizen team was on hand for the latest Around The Verse livestream, this time to discuss the design of the Drake Buccaneer Ship Pipeline. In this episode, Eric Kieron Davis and Steve Bender discuss the technical process that any ship goes through from design and concept through finished product implemented into the game.

Read the full story here

FlyByKnight · April 2017

I give Star Citizen a lot of sh!# but I do respect how it pushes boundaries at many aspects of game development. Even if it never releases or bombs the amount of ideas that were experimented on and implemented will benefit other games after it. If it does release it will probably be the most immersive game... ever. I do want to see it happen, but at the same time you can't blame the skepticism. Lots of dreams are being sold at the same time (maybe on purpose). An unprecedented amount of money has been thrown at this thing...

rensta · April 2017

Oh... Another new ship... How much $??

Kefo · April 2017

FlyByKnight said:

I give Star Citizen a lot of sh!# but I do respect how it pushes boundaries at many aspects of game development. Even if it never releases or bombs the amount of ideas that were experimented on and implemented will benefit other games after it. If it does release it will probably be the most immersive game... ever. I do want to see it happen, but at the same time you can't blame the skepticism. Lots of dreams are being sold at the same time (maybe on purpose). An unprecedented amount of money has been thrown at this thing...

Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Elsabolts · April 2017

Less concept more Verse !

MaxBacon · April 2017

Kefo said:
Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows by how much prototyping they are always doing.

Kefo · April 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows, they do are heavy on prototyping.

Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

Kefo · April 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows by how much prototyping they are always doing trying to find the best solutions beyond what is what we see on any other MMO around.

I'm fairly certain there are game devs out there that are trying to find the best solutions to any problem in their game. So that's not really stretching the boundaries of game dev.

MaxBacon · April 2017

Kefo said:
Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

I'm not sure if you can understand how the norm plays out vs what SC does. On the norm we usually have (especially within MMOs) the usage of the normal process, that is using the solutions that already exist and just stick with it, that's why we never see MMOs taking any big jumps on the tech and gameplay they provide.

SC, however, is constantly prototyping, rewriting as they go, finding the best solutions to fit the ambition of what they are trying to do, we can see this on how they went with Physics (grids) and lots of pieces in-dev but the most important is all of it working together (and this is where they walk on muddy grounds).

Kefo said:
I'm fairly certain there are game devs out there that are trying to find the best solutions to any problem in their game. So that's not really stretching the boundaries of game dev.

Solutions is not fixing a problem, is the amount of effort, time and work that goes towards developing the best game systems/tech you can. It's there you can indeed push boundaries.

And we see this very clearly, games usually cut a lot on this because of the time/money factor. But those who do are the ones who push the boundaries of gaming, one-day Naughty Dog pulled off Mocap for Uncharted, today it is a standard.

Kefo · April 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

I'm not sure if you can understand how the norm plays out vs what SC does. On the norm we usually have (especially within MMOs) the usage of the normal process, that is using the solutions that already exist and just stick with it, that's why we never see MMOs taking any big jumps on the tech and gameplay they provide.

SC, however, is constantly prototyping, rewriting as they go, finding the best solutions to fit the ambition of what they are trying to do, we can see this on how they went with Physics (grids) and lots of pieces in-dev but the most important is all of it working together.

Kefo said:
I'm fairly certain there are game devs out there that are trying to find the best solutions to any problem in their game. So that's not really stretching the boundaries of game dev.
Solutions is not fixing a problem, is the amount of effort, time and work that goes towards developing the best game systems/tech you can.

I'm not sure if you said solutions is not fixing a problem as a joke or not.

physics grids are nothing new and I'm sure when they were first used in games that would be pushing the boundaries. There are game devs who are constantly Prototyping and finding the best solutions to a problem but there comes a time when you need to go with what you have or you will never release. There's nothing wrong with releasing something that works and works just fine until you can come up with a better way of doing it.

The thing I see with SC is they keep trying to pass off already existing technology as their own ideas. I'm not saying they haven't come up with their own ideas but they tend to pass off things gamers take for granted as their own and make it seem like they are at the forefront of game dev when really their snails pace of development allows others to figure out the ideas and go to market before they can

MaxBacon · April 2017

Kefo said:
I'm not sure if you said solutions is not fixing a problem as a joke or not.

physics grids are nothing new and I'm sure when they were first used in games that would be pushing the boundaries. There are game devs who are constantly Prototyping and finding the best solutions to a problem but there comes a time when you need to go with what you have or you will never release. There's nothing wrong with releasing something that works and works just fine until you can come up with a better way of doing it.

The thing I see with SC is they keep trying to pass off already existing technology as their own ideas. I'm not saying they haven't come up with their own ideas but they tend to pass off things gamers take for granted as their own and make it seem like they are at the forefront of game dev when really their snails pace of development allows others to figure out the ideas and go to market before they can

Nah, you just fail to see the whole picture. SC is not X or Y feature, it's the ENTIRE thing. Everything working together is what will make it push the boundaries of what we ever saw an MMO doing before, not a single feature or piece of it.

The example related to this topic... The Ships alone. I don't think there is any other game that puts as much effort, work and detail into a single player-owned game vehicle, with the capital ships they did just flip the table on it... and that is just one part of SC.

They take the most challenging path by putting so much work and time on prototyping to push things as far as they can, but that is also why I support SC, very few are willing/capable to do this.

kikoodutroa8 · April 2017

Nyctelios said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows, they do are heavy on prototyping.

Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

They are making systems that are not needed but sure does enhance your experience. Like exchanging the whole system for a mass based system on ships - because if you lose a piece of your ship it should change your flight, right? So instead of making it a "flat debuff" it is a constant calculation based on the whole ship mass.

Another example is the room volume, gas and temperature systems. They could make a flat damage counter for heat/cold or lack of oxygen - but they went beyond and development a whole system based on pressure and flow of gas. It will make things like "close this door, open that window and kill everyone on that locked room" possible - and those gameplay options sure add to the whole experience as a space sim.

They need those things to players play around since the game has no status or skill level whatsoever - it makes your actions the sole point to define your victory or failure against certain adversities.

The same goes for making a hole in a ship and boarding to steal it since you don't have the money to buy one.

If they pull it out and release the game, those systems - which were costly and reason to many uproars of time delay - will make the game something most games out there can't brag about: It will make the game unique.

A whole system based on pressure and flow of gaz??? Is there such a thing in the playable demo or is it something they plan on implementing soon™?

Kefo · April 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
I'm not sure if you said solutions is not fixing a problem as a joke or not.

physics grids are nothing new and I'm sure when they were first used in games that would be pushing the boundaries. There are game devs who are constantly Prototyping and finding the best solutions to a problem but there comes a time when you need to go with what you have or you will never release. There's nothing wrong with releasing something that works and works just fine until you can come up with a better way of doing it.

The thing I see with SC is they keep trying to pass off already existing technology as their own ideas. I'm not saying they haven't come up with their own ideas but they tend to pass off things gamers take for granted as their own and make it seem like they are at the forefront of game dev when really their snails pace of development allows others to figure out the ideas and go to market before they can

Nah, you just fail to see the whole picture. SC is not X or Y feature, it's the ENTIRE thing. Everything working together is what will make it push the boundaries of what we ever saw an MMO doing before, not a single feature or piece of it.

The example related to this topic... The Ships alone. I don't think there is any other game that puts as much effort, work and detail into a single player-owned game vehicle, with the capital ships they did just flip the table on it... and that is just one part of SC.

They take the most challenging path by putting so much work and time on prototyping to push things as far as they can, but that is also why I support SC, very few are willing/capable to do this.

Ok so they make pretty looking ships. If that's the selling point of the game then yeah sure devote a lot of resources to pretty ships but don't try and pretend everything else is ground breaking.

Its great to say this will change how we view MMO's but I've been around long enough to see plenty of studios make the same claim (in different genres as well) and fall flat on their face because the ambition was more then the team can handle. Dream big sure but you need to temper that ambition with what your team is capable of. A good studio will push their devs but also recognize when they are starting to crack because of the demands placed on them.

Kefo · April 2017

Nyctelios said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows, they do are heavy on prototyping.

Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

They are making systems that are not needed but sure does enhance your experience. Like exchanging the whole system for a mass based system on ships - because if you lose a piece of your ship it should change your flight, right? So instead of making it a "flat debuff" it is a constant calculation based on the whole ship mass.

Another example is the room volume, gas and temperature systems. They could make a flat damage counter for heat/cold or lack of oxygen - but they went beyond and development a whole system based on pressure and flow of gas. It will make things like "close this door, open that window and kill everyone on that locked room" possible - and those gameplay options sure add to the whole experience as a space sim.

They need those things to players play around since the game has no status or skill level whatsoever - it makes your actions the sole point to define your victory or failure against certain adversities.

The same goes for making a hole in a ship and boarding to steal it since you don't have the money to buy one.

If they pull it out and release the game, those systems - which were costly and reason to many uproars of time delay - will make the game something most games out there can't brag about: It will make the game unique.

Ok all great ideas except they have yet to implement them in game. They can boast all they want but until they exist in the game that everyone can play then it remains an idea and just a boast. That's not pushing the boundaries that's just making promises.

MaxBacon · April 2017

Kefo said:
Ok so they make pretty looking ships. If that's the selling point of the game then yeah sure devote a lot of resources to pretty ships but don't try and pretend everything else is ground breaking.

Its great to say this will change how we view MMO's but I've been around long enough to see plenty of studios make the same claim (in different genres as well) and fall flat on their face because the ambition was more then the team can handle. Dream big sure but you need to temper that ambition with what your team is capable of. A good studio will push their devs but also recognize when they are starting to crack because of the demands placed on them.

I will disagree there, I see the push on many parts of the game, on physics, on AI (this is a big one due how it drives economy and it is simulated on a systemic basis), the quality bar on animation continuously improving, even the PG Planets we see they are not doing a superficial approach with the push on the simulation, weather and such (last footage of that btw).

It's never perfect. But there's no reward without the risk; if gaming is ever pushed forward is because those who take the risks, and every time I heard about those who pulled it off, they don't talk about a sea of roses, yet about failure and success by trial and error.

SavageHorizon · April 2017

So Op is saying that even though God King Chris had all those peoples millions and loads of ideas that if the game doesn't come out he'll still be happy.

So fuck the people who pledged and pledged, they should stfu and be thankful for God King pushing so called boundaries.

Are you fucking joking Op or has one night in God King's herem gone to your head, was the loving that good.

Kefo · April 2017

Nyctelios said:

kikoodutroa8 said:

Nyctelios said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows, they do are heavy on prototyping.

Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

They are making systems that are not needed but sure does enhance your experience. Like exchanging the whole system for a mass based system on ships - because if you lose a piece of your ship it should change your flight, right? So instead of making it a "flat debuff" it is a constant calculation based on the whole ship mass.

Another example is the room volume, gas and temperature systems. They could make a flat damage counter for heat/cold or lack of oxygen - but they went beyond and development a whole system based on pressure and flow of gas. It will make things like "close this door, open that window and kill everyone on that locked room" possible - and those gameplay options sure add to the whole experience as a space sim.

They need those things to players play around since the game has no status or skill level whatsoever - it makes your actions the sole point to define your victory or failure against certain adversities.

The same goes for making a hole in a ship and boarding to steal it since you don't have the money to buy one.

If they pull it out and release the game, those systems - which were costly and reason to many uproars of time delay - will make the game something most games out there can't brag about: It will make the game unique.

A whole system based on pressure and flow of gaz??? Is there such a thing in the playable demo or is it something they plan on implementing soon™?

Kefo said:

Nyctelios said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows, they do are heavy on prototyping.

Youre going to need to elaborate on that please

They are making systems that are not needed but sure does enhance your experience. Like exchanging the whole system for a mass based system on ships - because if you lose a piece of your ship it should change your flight, right? So instead of making it a "flat debuff" it is a constant calculation based on the whole ship mass.

Another example is the room volume, gas and temperature systems. They could make a flat damage counter for heat/cold or lack of oxygen - but they went beyond and development a whole system based on pressure and flow of gas. It will make things like "close this door, open that window and kill everyone on that locked room" possible - and those gameplay options sure add to the whole experience as a space sim.

They need those things to players play around since the game has no status or skill level whatsoever - it makes your actions the sole point to define your victory or failure against certain adversities.

The same goes for making a hole in a ship and boarding to steal it since you don't have the money to buy one.

If they pull it out and release the game, those systems - which were costly and reason to many uproars of time delay - will make the game something most games out there can't brag about: It will make the game unique.

Ok all great ideas except they have yet to implement them in game. They can boast all they want but until they exist in the game that everyone can play then it remains an idea and just a boast. That's not pushing the boundaries that's just making promises.

The mass system was built years ago, before some people here even knew about the game, before the item 2.0, to be honest. It was around the time of Wingam's Hangar.

They have several videos about the gas flow system (and the others I said). I'm sorry but I'm not aware if it is in the alpha client because I'm not a backer, I just follow the project (well, started following since the very start) - and I plan to put money once something more... complete is out.

There are several other systems they started to develop, which includes the Planetary Interaction as a whole.

On the original game pitch they never mentioned landing or even interacting with planets, just flying through space and docking on stations - that's why some old followers like me lost their shit when they showed the seamless transition from space to planet atmosphere with no active loading.

It is complicated to talk (write) about Star Citizen at this point and answer when people ask about things like that because you would have to watch all 10 For the Chairman and Around the Verser as the old Wingman's hangar to have a complete understanding of what the game was and what it evolved to.

For example: Getting dirty, losing limbs (to be replaced with prosthetic ones) and permadeath were the first thing ever mentioned about the project. You would have "lives" and those "lives" would be spent by adding "signs of damage", visually, on your character. Once the lives are depleted you would respawn as a "cousin" or "son/daughter" and watch the funeral of your old character as your get your heritage.

Also, it is a complicate thing, but many games already have gas flow/pressure/temperature system. One example (of done right): Oxygen not included.

I've been around since the KS for this game so I know all about the original pitch and when the games scope started ballooning up like that girl in willy wonka and the chocolate factory.

I'm fairly certain everything you mentioned in your post is all just dreams and ideas right now. There is no gas flow, no replacing of limbs, no planetary landings and pretty sure no mass based ships.

so again they haven't pushed the boundaries at all unless you count dreams and words as pushing the boundaries in which case writers have them beat by a couple hundred years.

If they release something that does change how gaming is done then credit where credit is due but right now they havent done much to push anything except see how long they can get free money from backers with rose coloured glasses

Kefo · April 2017

Nyctelios said:

Kefo said:

Nyctelios said:

kikoodutroa8 said:

Nyctelios said:

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:

Kefo said:

I've been around since the KS for this game so I know all about the original pitch and when the games scope started ballooning up like that girl in willy wonka and the chocolate factory.

I'm fairly certain everything you mentioned in your post is all just dreams and ideas right now. There is no gas flow, no replacing of limbs, no planetary landings and pretty sure no mass based ships.

so again they haven't pushed the boundaries at all unless you count dreams and words as pushing the boundaries in which case writers have them beat by a couple hundred years.

If they release something that does change how gaming is done then credit where credit is due but right now they havent done much to push anything except see how long they can get free money from backers with rose coloured glasses

There is gas and ambient pressure control. They already showed it on Around the Verse.

I'm not trying to defend the project or it's delay, but I also see no point on this hateful behavior.

What will you say next? There is no planetary interaction?

I won't discuss about it being released or not. And you have all the rights to be worried if those ideas will see the light of release, if players will be able to use them - but to say "there is no x or y" when they showed it already, working on the engine, please.

That's appeal to ignorance, and it's a fallacy.

Let's avoid extremism of "this sure will launch!" v "this does not exist!" and attain ourselves to facts and what we know so far. There are systems done, they are ready to be put on the client/game. Will them be there soon or not? That's the question.

The limb system is the least complicated thing to implement. For real. I don't see reason for your bitterness around it. It would be just texture + normal map - How complicate or even impossible is it to place? But it is not a priority, it is a flavor, it is a cosmetic thing - it is not on the current list of features for a reason: It is not a core gameplay mechanic. It can be added later.

About the others, yeah, that's why I'm waiting to become a backer. I want to see them on the client, running. Like I saw it running on controlled multiplayer tests.

Pretty sure the gas and pressure systems are still concept and not actually implements since last I saw you can still fly around in space in your underwear with air jets shooting out of your body.

Im not being hateful I'm being critical. I'm sure it's easier to dismiss anything I say by just saying I'm being hateful.

Also weren't you the one who brought up the limb system as pushing boundaries? I brought up how it's not in game so therefore it's still an idea and everyone has an idea so not really pushing boundaries. Not sure how you are getting bitterness from that comment except to try and dismiss a thing I say by labelling me a hater. You're free to label me as that but it puts you in a tenuous position when arguing since anyone can see you're being closed minded about things

rensta · April 2017

That's a new fanatic fan boy level.
"being happy with the game even if it doesn't release because it pushes the limits of game design "
What limits?
The only interesting feature is the seamless interactive universe, and it's not that innovative, in fact, it's not even important, if they could add a 10 seconds loading screen when landing on planets that will benefit the game servers way more, you can't interact with outer space anyway when on a planet, it's just plain stupid.
Yes it's a cool feature, but it's just a gimmick, i would rather each planet be held on its own server with a nice cap of 1000? Popular planets can get more? Or use the channels system.

MaxBacon · April 2017

rensta said:
The only interesting feature is the seamless interactive universe, and it's not that innovative, in fact, it's not even important, if they could add a 10 seconds loading screen when landing on planets that will benefit the game servers way more, you can't interact with outer space anyway when on a planet, it's just plain stupid.
Yes it's a cool feature, but it's just a gimmick, i would rather each planet be held on its own server with a nice cap of 1000? Popular planets can get more? Or use the channels system.

There are no loading screens, it is seamless (what we call loading is just a constant streaming in/out of assets).

And planets do have their own "instances"; the networking design they are going for is quite complex, it's kinda a single-shard world that persists towards all the players yet they do are handled by many servers and segregated per area when necessary.

It's still called one Instance but it's not isolated as it happens on Guild Wars 2 for example. They could have tons of players on a planet, but then we'd have a dejavu of MMOs and the Lag Festivals where main player hubs are, a balance is desirable.

aligada87 · April 2017

Kefo said:

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
I'm not sure if you said solutions is not fixing a problem as a joke or not.

physics grids are nothing new and I'm sure when they were first used in games that would be pushing the boundaries. There are game devs who are constantly Prototyping and finding the best solutions to a problem but there comes a time when you need to go with what you have or you will never release. There's nothing wrong with releasing something that works and works just fine until you can come up with a better way of doing it.

The thing I see with SC is they keep trying to pass off already existing technology as their own ideas. I'm not saying they haven't come up with their own ideas but they tend to pass off things gamers take for granted as their own and make it seem like they are at the forefront of game dev when really their snails pace of development allows others to figure out the ideas and go to market before they can

Nah, you just fail to see the whole picture. SC is not X or Y feature, it's the ENTIRE thing. Everything working together is what will make it push the boundaries of what we ever saw an MMO doing before, not a single feature or piece of it.

The example related to this topic... The Ships alone. I don't think there is any other game that puts as much effort, work and detail into a single player-owned game vehicle, with the capital ships they did just flip the table on it... and that is just one part of SC.

They take the most challenging path by putting so much work and time on prototyping to push things as far as they can, but that is also why I support SC, very few are willing/capable to do this.

Ok so they make pretty looking ships. If that's the selling point of the game then yeah sure devote a lot of resources to pretty ships but don't try and pretend everything else is ground breaking.

Its great to say this will change how we view MMO's but I've been around long enough to see plenty of studios make the same claim (in different genres as well) and fall flat on their face because the ambition was more then the team can handle. Dream big sure but you need to temper that ambition with what your team is capable of. A good studio will push their devs but also recognize when they are starting to crack because of the demands placed on them.

there has been no mmo out there that has been released that offers fps/group oriented gameplay/solo exploration/jobs pvp/pve. for example open world fps. each planet being landable each with different types of exploration im betting. not to mention diff types of quest stories to unlock, and that is just the small portion of the game. there is industrial trades probably will be faction warefare since there are already alien species out. again small part of the game. not to mention they will also have an arena base game where u have racing fps and sim. in short sc is the only game who will be releasing a game 5 in 1. meaning they will have fps/sims/racing/pve/pvp/explorations. they are pushing technology because of all these things they are factoring out. look at swtor took 500mill to make to come out trash cause it was rushed by ea. star citizen doesnt want that type of bs. and all honosty as a backer myself i rather have a finished playable product instead of having a pos game. also not to mention s42 will be a seperate game so they have multiple projects at once. they are doing things no game devs has ever done before. name an mmo besides star citizen that offerd that. i will bet u my soul that u cant name 1

aligada87 · April 2017

also id like to add only reason why people qqing is cause they dont have the patients for the game. again look at swtor people wanted it out then boom wasnt even ready to be released people already cried bout it. it sad really. so many qqers out there, ive spoken to people online who even qqs about star citizen making promises when they themselves isnt even a backer. judging the game by its cover and what they read. but when the game releases and the game does deliver its promises. i will laugh at those that qqed and trashed sc. but then again once a qqer always a qqer. they will probably find something to cry bout like this game is to hard blablabla why the fuck do i need a bed blablabla why cant i solo play blalblabla. why cant anyone hold my hand blablabla.

Chaserz · April 2017

Another ship for sale for the saps that stay at home nightly to save up the money they need for their next ship after they've already spent $3000.00 or more?

rensta · April 2017

aligada87 said:

also id like to add only reason why people qqing is cause they dont have the patients for the game. again look at swtor people wanted it out then boom wasnt even ready to be released people already cried bout it. it sad really. so many qqers out there, ive spoken to people online who even qqs about star citizen making promises when they themselves isnt even a backer. judging the game by its cover and what they read. but when the game releases and the game does deliver its promises. i will laugh at those that qqed and trashed sc. but then again once a qqer always a qqer. they will probably find something to cry bout like this game is to hard blablabla why the fuck do i need a bed blablabla why cant i solo play blalblabla. why cant anyone hold my hand blablabla.

We are not "qqer".
I don't even care when the game will release since i really think it's just a scam, and even when it does release it will be a failure.
Enjoy waiting and spending money on "support" and "innovative" technology.

craftseeker · April 2017

MaxBacon said: g

Kefo said:
Just to push the conversation along but what have they done that has pushed the boundries of game dev?

Tackling the development process to fit the ambition of the game, instead of the opposite (that is the norm). And that shows by how much prototyping they are always doing.

Yes they do lots of prototyping, every month we hear about more and more prototyping. We also hear about more and more ships.

Actual progress to a deliverable product not so much.

Krokodokul · April 2017

Wow Frankfurt studio is fantastic, will there be game masters controling cities and AI on big scale of a planets or solar system, factions,? tY.

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