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MMOs are too outdated compared to other genres
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
For PvP, you have FPS games that have advanced greatly since the beginning. These FPS games take far more skill than zergs or/and overpowered equipment. The graphics are advanced, the mechanics are great and the guns feel amazing (in most of them, there are some craptastic FPS games of course).
For a different type of PvP. You got leagues of legends, heroes of the storm...while they are a bit similar to MMOs in levels and sometimes equipment...these too are more advanced than any smaller scope PvP in MMOs. In WoW, battlegrounds and arenas are nowhere near as skillful and fun as in heroes of the storm. There is no twinks or overpowered raiders coming down to one hit everyone in sight.
For a third type of PvP are strategy games, and these strategy games are very advanced. Europa Universalis 4 multiplayer is like playing a massive epic risk game, and while there is RNG...its more advanced than any strategy MMO out there, and feels more like an MMO (I know it isn't) than any actual strategy MMO.
For solo PVE (a ton of people only solo in MMOs). You have a ton of choices. A modded Skyrim is BIGGER (if done right) in world size (because of all the new lands), has more game time (I have over 2k hours in Skyrim and with all the mods added haven't even done everything) and you can add so much to it compared to ESO. A modded Skyrim even looks better. My skyrim looks better than most new AAA games do.
Then you have X3 space series, which is far more advanced than most space games. EVE looks nowhere near as good as X3...in X3 the planets are huge and massive, the world is alive and there are AI ships all the time transporting and doing things. EVE AI on the other hand are super brain dead.
Then there are the very successful indie games, like Factorio and Rimworld. I know Factorio has seen a lot of success, and Factorio is more unique than any MMO out there. Indie games in general have made some very unique and successful games. MMOs on the other hand are all copies of each other.
And heck, most of the in-development MMOs want to go back to oldschool MMOs...not unique...not different...stuck in the past and not looking at the future. Like, there is a reason no one plays those old crappy MMOs, what people want is the future and unique games, not copies of stupid outdated old games. Or all those MMO imports of the 50 million asian grinder cash shop clones that people buy up like hotcakes, but then they die within 3 months.
Some exceptions to that (it be wrong and a lie to ignore MMOs that have done or want to do something to further the MMO genre). Star Citizen looks like they legit want to evolve the MMO genre and be an unique and ambitious MMO. Its doing NEW things, not going back to old crappy stuff made for 50 year old basement dwellers stuck in the past that probably still have the backstreet boy posters on their basement walls. Ashes of Creation looks like they want to do some new stuff and further the MMO genre, but we'll see.
Then for "new" MMOs. The Secret World did something creative and unique, even though not entirely successful. GW2 is pretty unique, and did a lot of things never seen before. And if going back a bit, Saga of Ryzom is pretty unique but is 100% dead.
Then for both solo PVE AND PvP are the multiple survival games out there. Ark survival, subnautica, even conan exiles is getting a lot better.
But to sum it up. Other genres have seen so much advancement in mechanics, gameplay and graphics. So many new games coming out. But almost all MMOs these days are imports from asia (and they never do that great and mostly fail), or so many just stuck in the past and can't think of anything new so they go back to old MMO way of doing things.
Even in-development MMOs are pretty few compared to other genres, and very few doing anything actually unique and NEW. Just star citizen and maybe ashes of creation (but that is too new to say much about it)
MMO genre is pretty stagnant as far as companies doing new and ambitious stuff. Other genres have seen far more advancement in a much shorter time, and even vastly better (and often bigger) multiplayer capabilities
For a different type of PvP. You got leagues of legends, heroes of the storm...while they are a bit similar to MMOs in levels and sometimes equipment...these too are more advanced than any smaller scope PvP in MMOs. In WoW, battlegrounds and arenas are nowhere near as skillful and fun as in heroes of the storm. There is no twinks or overpowered raiders coming down to one hit everyone in sight.
For a third type of PvP are strategy games, and these strategy games are very advanced. Europa Universalis 4 multiplayer is like playing a massive epic risk game, and while there is RNG...its more advanced than any strategy MMO out there, and feels more like an MMO (I know it isn't) than any actual strategy MMO.
For solo PVE (a ton of people only solo in MMOs). You have a ton of choices. A modded Skyrim is BIGGER (if done right) in world size (because of all the new lands), has more game time (I have over 2k hours in Skyrim and with all the mods added haven't even done everything) and you can add so much to it compared to ESO. A modded Skyrim even looks better. My skyrim looks better than most new AAA games do.
Then you have X3 space series, which is far more advanced than most space games. EVE looks nowhere near as good as X3...in X3 the planets are huge and massive, the world is alive and there are AI ships all the time transporting and doing things. EVE AI on the other hand are super brain dead.
Then there are the very successful indie games, like Factorio and Rimworld. I know Factorio has seen a lot of success, and Factorio is more unique than any MMO out there. Indie games in general have made some very unique and successful games. MMOs on the other hand are all copies of each other.
And heck, most of the in-development MMOs want to go back to oldschool MMOs...not unique...not different...stuck in the past and not looking at the future. Like, there is a reason no one plays those old crappy MMOs, what people want is the future and unique games, not copies of stupid outdated old games. Or all those MMO imports of the 50 million asian grinder cash shop clones that people buy up like hotcakes, but then they die within 3 months.
Some exceptions to that (it be wrong and a lie to ignore MMOs that have done or want to do something to further the MMO genre). Star Citizen looks like they legit want to evolve the MMO genre and be an unique and ambitious MMO. Its doing NEW things, not going back to old crappy stuff made for 50 year old basement dwellers stuck in the past that probably still have the backstreet boy posters on their basement walls. Ashes of Creation looks like they want to do some new stuff and further the MMO genre, but we'll see.
Then for "new" MMOs. The Secret World did something creative and unique, even though not entirely successful. GW2 is pretty unique, and did a lot of things never seen before. And if going back a bit, Saga of Ryzom is pretty unique but is 100% dead.
Then for both solo PVE AND PvP are the multiple survival games out there. Ark survival, subnautica, even conan exiles is getting a lot better.
But to sum it up. Other genres have seen so much advancement in mechanics, gameplay and graphics. So many new games coming out. But almost all MMOs these days are imports from asia (and they never do that great and mostly fail), or so many just stuck in the past and can't think of anything new so they go back to old MMO way of doing things.
Even in-development MMOs are pretty few compared to other genres, and very few doing anything actually unique and NEW. Just star citizen and maybe ashes of creation (but that is too new to say much about it)
MMO genre is pretty stagnant as far as companies doing new and ambitious stuff. Other genres have seen far more advancement in a much shorter time, and even vastly better (and often bigger) multiplayer capabilities
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Comments
Really, we don't need you here.
(BTW, its a GNR poster in the basement, not BSB)
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Where as other genres have moved forward by quite a lot, and while some games have a bunch of DLC...at least that DLC adds actual content for the most part. But outside of cash shops/DLC...pretty much every genre has moved forward by so much, especially RPGs and strategy games...yet MMOs are stuck in the past, and most developers lack such creativity they can't do anything innovative or new.
Its one reason WoW is still the top subscribed MMO...and WoW is pretty old...which is a sad state of the MMO genre.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
But the general sentiment that MMOs are stagnant is, I think, pretty well shared around here. For some time now. I don't think anyone fails to notice we've been rapidly reduced to praying for a ragged band of indie titles to hold on after all the risk-taking and AAA stuff was slaughtered in the last couple of years.
We're left with much more old-school, barely-innovative projects, and that's not as exciting... but, well, that's what has managed to pull through. We'll see what evolves from the survivors.
very simply the only games worth playing are indies other than a small handful.
Having said that I think these indies coming out now are better than the vast majority of the AAA titles...EVER..not just 'these days' but ever I have been playing since 1980
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Umm, us MMO fans are aware that MMO's are stagnating. They are barely being developed anymore. I don't understand the need for this OP. Kinda like kicking someone when they are down. If we could change things and force AAA companies to make innovative MMO's we would.
I do disagree that the non MMO games have not done a great job appealing to PvE open world players. I'm sure the arena PvP people love the Non MMO PvP games out there. But open world character building PvE'rs still kinda have to count on MMOs.
A company that isnt even in the business of making video games, had a meeting and decided that if someone had an idea for a project of ANY kind and majority voted yes then they could work on that project and resources would be allocated.
That company made a game and hasnt made another sense and the core company doesnt plan to either.
That game was....kerbal space program.
there is something very wrong with your industry if a company that isnt even in your industry can make a game that is universally considered to be one of the best games out there.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Well true, MMOs have the technical limitations to consider because they DO tend to be huge, and have to take into account thousands of people. But, if you look at MMOs like Guild wars 2, The Secret World...they are rather innovative and unique. That shows that developers CAN do something innovative and different, but instead most just go back to what has already been done before (like you said at the end).
Its like if today a few that use windows 95 (saw someone post on another forum bragging about still using windows 95 lol) or windows XP...those OS are so outdated. Those people are stuck in the past. Its like most of the upcoming MMOs, stuck in the past and not doing anything new or innovative. Really just Star Citizen looks to be the most innovative and doing something new. But, then when a company DOES something like that, a bunch of haters appear and trolls without seeing how the game actually ends up. And they don't even play it or have played it at all, just automatically hate on it cause its new and innovative. That drives away a lot of developers too.
I will say that a lot of other genres often the games are just repeats of each other. So it isn't JUST an MMO thing. Like the new warhammer RTS game is pretty much league of legends but warhammer instead with a few changes. But other genres see way more games, so it ends up being that people see more "unique" ones because there are so many that come out compared to MMOs.
Which IS expected to be less MMOs that come out compared to say RTS games. MMOs are very expensive to make compared to any other genre (maybe some exceptions, like Witcher 3 supposedly cost a lot), which is another limitation. But before WoW, there was a ton of unique MMOs...pretty much every single MMO was unique. And they made those MMOs because they loved it, not to make a quick buck with a cash shop.
I wouldn't want to play a clone of them again because I'd prefer to play something actually innovative and never before seen. But SWG, Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, Asheron's Call, Istaria (still no MMO lets you play as a dragon), City of Heroes...all really unique and innovative. And now (again), its just Star Citizen that looks to be doing anything ambitious and new. It could very well end up bombing of course, but at least they are trying to do something innovative and ambitious (as far as upcoming MMOs go). Maybe Ashes of Creation like I listed in my post, but that is WAY too early to judge that at all.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
kerbal space program
Space Engineers
Wurm Online/Unlimited
Medieval Engineers
Kenshi
7 days to die
this is just a very very short list of games that are doing things radical at least compared to the games you are describing
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before.
Edgar Allan Poe
For me, Kerbal is one of the best games I've ever played. What a blast.
And 7 Days to Die: Most underrated game out today, IMO. It plays more like an MMO than most MMOs.
~~ postlarval ~~
MMORPGs need to stop copying WOW and do their own thing like Pantheon. Ashes also needs to stop listening to WOW players that want Ashes to have a Raid Gear grind like in WOW. Basically if you want WOW stay in fucking WOW. Once developers start telling MMORPG players that then we can move on with creating games that do not copy WOW.
We all wish we could have the super duper kek graphics, the super good animations, and physics, but within one MMO game, all of those factors become harder to balance because you will have to consider, server performance, the cost it will have on server resources, player performance when we're talking about big number of players that can be on the same place, and several other bits.
Pantheon hasn't done anything yet, except talk a good talk.
Try making that statement again in a couple of years.
~~ postlarval ~~
More people need to experience these games. not so much for the sales success of those games but so that when I make a point about the differences they will have a friggin clue what I am talking about
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I want to explore different methods and paths of progression for characters.
Levels work well for PvE, not so well for PvP.
I want more than just combat, crafting, exploring, socializing, and decorating. A lot more.
I want non-combat/utility skills that are useful.
I don't want to need to grind. I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY DO NOT WANT TO NEED TO GRIND.
Sandbox. Sandbox. Sandbox.
I want Open Narrative.
I want my choices and decisions, and those of everyone else playing, to have the possibility of effecting and changing the game world.
Did I say realism?
MMORPGs are the only games in which we can share a persistent virtual world. Why shouldn't we want the experience to be as realistic, dynamic, and immersive as possible?
Thats why MMORPGs have stagnated so much. MMO players dont innovation or originality they just want new MMOs to copy old MMOs.
I mean really when you think about it, when you are in guild or clan that is who you interact with 90% of the time anyway.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
there is something very wrong with your industry if a company that isnt even in your industry can make a game that is universally considered to be one of the best games out there.
please if you are going to respond it would be nice if you respond to that direct observation and illustrate how your conclusion is directly related to that observation would be taking it to the state of awesome
LET ME BE MORE CLEAR:
when I say 'industry' what that means is not just developers, that means managers, project managers, company agenda it means the whole thing. you can have outstanding developers create a terrible game if your entire system of business is misguided. Thus, when I say what I said and how I said it, THAT is what I was refering to, the 'industry' and how it operates, not one code junkyy
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me