I think in some games the point is only brought up in the FAQ or if a question is directly asked. They say things like 'fight for territory or resources' or that there is an open world for you to explore and it does not say that there will be people waiting to kill and loot you. I doubt that that is a selling point.
What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
What's with this fixation to divide everything? Why can't a player like both? Why can't a game have both seamlessly integrated. Why can't you be taming a dragon in a dungeon, look across the way, see a player getting attacked by a player killer, and then you run over there and save his life? Maybe that player thanks you, and possible even befriends you. Why can't these things happen? Because we keep dividing everyone up into categories and segregate these activities. We used to be able to do these things though, and it was awesome.
I think in some games the point is only brought up in the FAQ or if a question is directly asked. They say things like 'fight for territory or resources' or that there is an open world for you to explore and it does not say that there will be people waiting to kill and loot you. I doubt that that is a selling point.
Why wouldn't it be brought up in the FAQ, that's where your "Frequently Asked Questions" would be answered.
For instance, "does this game have pvp".
Just looked up Archeage in the FAQ:
Combat
ArcheAge’s combat is varied and diverse, offering a multitude of ways for players to engage in both PvE and PvP.
PvE
Erenor is a dangerous world, brimming with monstrous threats for you
and your friends to defeat. Challenge instanced dungeons designed for 3,
5, and 10 players. Join small groups and challenge public co-op events
(like the southern world bosses). Compete with other players to defeat
fearsome world bosses. Face massive foes that will require raids of 50+
players to conquer.
PvP
ArcheAge offers an almost unparalleled variety of ways and reasons to
fight your fellow players. Battle against players of the opposing
faction as you encounter each other in the world, or become a terror
that hunts members of your own faction. Fight it out daily in massive,
un-instanced battlegrounds like Mistmerrow and the Sea of Graves. Become
a Pirate and prowl the high seas or valuable trade routes, picking off
unsuspecting merchants and stealing their Trade Packs. Lay siege to an
enemy nation’s castle and claim it as your own.
And there you go, if one wants to know more they can just take a minute and ask on some forum or write customer service.
This must be a generation thing as I don't really see why any of this is a big deal.
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I find that most PVPers are like the bully kids in the neighborhood....They want people around that they can beat up....They dont want an even fight or even be the underdog.
I find that most PVPers are like the bully kids in the neighborhood....They want people around that they can beat up....They dont want an even fight or even be the underdog.
I would say that there are some loud, obnoxious pvp'ers who seem front and center and therefore make it seem that "most" pvp'ers are like bully kids.
As I've said before there are an equal amount of pve players who are also "bully kids". Only you can't do anything about them because "no pvp".
I've been in pve groups with some really abusive players. I also remember a time in Lord of the Rings online where this guy was getting upset about something, I don't remember what, but he decided to go in the area I was trying to get quest mobs and just kept mowing them down so I couldn't get them (he was a champion, I was playing a guardian".
So I think the real lesson here is "bad players are bad players".
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Most good RPGs with PVP ( and I do enjoy pvp ) also have an element of PVE to it, and its kind of part of a living breathing world that you have other people that might not want to be directly involved in the conflicts of the world, it adds another dynamic and other people you can interact with that arent just kill on sight, this is where artificial PVP mechanics come into play, either pvp zones or some other mechanic like flagging ( L2 did this really well ), I think without non pvp interactions a lot of the great pvp centric MMOs I have played over the years would have been a much poorer experience.
I really dont mind some pvp people acting absolutely drunk with power sometimes I think thats absolutely fine, what I want is some checks and balances so they have to make a decision, that there is something to weigh in before you kill someone, if you just leave people to run ramptant just because they will quickly ruin the whole echosystem, even EVE has checks and balances and artificial systems that make it so a whole spectrum of players can co-exist and thats how I like my pvp games.
On another note there is nothing wrong with pure kill on sight pvp games, but they are mostly arena shooters with RPG elements tacked on really, which is fine.
PvP players usually don't want PvE players or content in their game. PvP Devs do because while the PvP crowd is loud and proud, they are also out number 10,000 to 1 by PvE content players.
*sigh* 10,000 to 1? are you sure you want to do this? I will give you a free pass on this one, and just say there is nowhere (beyond your imagination) you can pull a stat that will support this opinion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I find that most PVPers are like the bully kids in the neighborhood....They want people around that they can beat up....They dont want an even fight or even be the underdog.
If you have to label someone as a "PvPer" then some are like that, sure. I would say they are hugely a minority, though. They will often turn the tide against them by their own hand.
I think the truth is far more complicated. Some players at times may enjoy stirring up trouble, but I have not seen anyone last that enjoys doing this all the time. More likely some players go through phases of different play styles, while some players never participate in certain types of behavior. As I previously stated, I *always* enjoy playing someone of similar or greater skill since it is an opportunity to learn. I am also bound by my guild's charter *not* to participate in piracy; we are *pirate hunters*.
The "schoolyard bully" analogy just isn't an accurate representation in my view; if it is then it's very poor game design.
I understand why it's tempting to make this comparison, but it's just not at all what occurs in the game I play; said bully would soon find he had poked his finger inside a beehive.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
There is no truth to this. They will hem and haw that PvP is good for PvE, and there is no truth to this either, look at games like GW2, and WoW, where they divide the communities, the PvE players like it that way, the Pvp players don't... now why is that?
Whilst your leading question wants people to think that pvpers are just douches who want to slaughter carebears, that is not the case. I'm sure there are some dickheads that think like that, but they are a tiny minority of the pvp community.
The overwhelming majority of PvPers I have met enjoy both PvE and PvP. People lean more heavily one way or the other, but most enjoy both at various times. This is quite different to the PvE community who mostly only ever do PvE and never touch PvP.
So, when the PvP and PvE communities are segregated, it works out well for the pure PvErs. They get to play the game their way, which they consider the right way, and they get to feel happy about not having to interact with a section of the community which they both look down upon and fear.
The PvPers, on the other hand, lose out. Their PvP time stays the same, but their cross-over time is hurt. In games like WoW and SW:TOR where endgame gear progression is segregated, it forces the average gamer to choose between pvp or pve. If they choose PvP, they can have their fun and stay at the top of the power curve, but fall behind on the pve front which means they then can't raid with their friends / guildies. If they choose PvE, they get to stay at the top of the pve power curve, but fall behind in pvp, usually resulting in power gaps that ruin the fun.
Ultimately, segregation is just bad. We know this to be true from the real world and it is true in MMOs.
So, instead of harping on about segregating the community and ringfencing whatever playstyle you happen to like most, why not move the conversation towards breaking down barriers and thinking up solutions?
For example, a common "carebear" complaint is that they hate getting ganked all the time. Whats the solution? Firstly, some education - getting beaten 1v1 by someone better than you is not being ganked. Secondly, why were they so much better? Do they have a massive power advantage due to gear? If so, lets discuss progression mechanics that don't introduce power gaps.
Another common complaint is simply the amount of time it takes to become competitive in pvp. First, you have to level to cap. Then you have to maximise your build by grinding traits and gearing up. Then you usually have to get your arsed kicked for months while you rank up to acquire pvp gear, and even then you still need even longer to fully understand the game and get good. Who the hell wants to spend months / years of their time before PvP starts becoming fun?!?!? So lets discuss alternate ways to make pvp immediately fun, for example, using a monster play system like LotRO, or using horizontal progression so you're competitive from day 1.
There will always be problems integrating different communities and there are a lot of design challenges to overcome, but I'd rather discuss new designs and ways of moving this genre forwards rather than ruling out massive chunks of the market right from the start.
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What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
Well, that's not exactly fair. One could ask "why is it every pve player wants to do away with pvp in pvp focused mmo's.
I think, in the end, each player sees the potential for a concentration of their preferred playstyle in these games but then looks at the other side and sees it as ruining "a perfectly good game".
I should also add that good pvp players are more interested in good pvp fights and don't want to take out people who won't fight back as that is a bit boring.
Fair, maybe not, but PvPers are rather vocal about wanting to PvP everyone everywhere. Why do they have to be able to F over everyone? Can't they stand the idea that some people aren't interested in backstabbing people?
Sees it as "ruining a perfectly good game". Maybe, but that isn't the OPs question. Why do they want PvE players in their PvP? Maybe for easy ganks?
There might be some good PvP players that aren't interested in the easy kills of PvE players, but you know what, I've encountered very few of those types in games. It's almost always groups of significantly more powerful PvP ganking me, or some jerk who waits until I can't respond, like when I'm trying to turn in a quest and am locked into the dialog window with the npc. You know, it doesn't take very many of those types of scum to drive away PvE players, and it turns out, they aren't even vaguely uncommon.
What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
Well, that's not exactly fair. One could ask "why is it every pve player wants to do away with pvp in pvp focused mmo's.
I think, in the end, each player sees the potential for a concentration of their preferred playstyle in these games but then looks at the other side and sees it as ruining "a perfectly good game".
I should also add that good pvp players are more interested in good pvp fights and don't want to take out people who won't fight back as that is a bit boring.
Fair, maybe not, but PvPers are rather vocal about wanting to PvP everyone everywhere. Why do they have to be able to F over everyone? Can't they stand the idea that some people aren't interested in backstabbing people?
Sees it as "ruining a perfectly good game". Maybe, but that isn't the OPs question. Why do they want PvE players in their PvP? Maybe for easy ganks?
There might be some good PvP players that aren't interested in the easy kills of PvE players, but you know what, I've encountered very few of those types in games. It's almost always groups of significantly more powerful PvP ganking me, or some jerk who waits until I can't respond, like when I'm trying to turn in a quest and am locked into the dialog window with the npc. You know, it doesn't take very many of those types of scum to drive away PvE players, and it turns out, they aren't even vaguely uncommon.
As I said above, zealotry is the real problem. There are a lot of PVPers who much prefer PVPing in designated PVP zones only against those who are there for the same purpose. I'm one of those.
The ones who want to gank oblivious questing PVErs all over the world are the minority, albeit loud forum tough guys.
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What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
Well, that's not exactly fair. One could ask "why is it every pve player wants to do away with pvp in pvp focused mmo's.
I think, in the end, each player sees the potential for a concentration of their preferred playstyle in these games but then looks at the other side and sees it as ruining "a perfectly good game".
I should also add that good pvp players are more interested in good pvp fights and don't want to take out people who won't fight back as that is a bit boring.
Fair, maybe not, but PvPers are rather vocal about wanting to PvP everyone everywhere. Why do they have to be able to F over everyone? Can't they stand the idea that some people aren't interested in backstabbing people?
Sees it as "ruining a perfectly good game". Maybe, but that isn't the OPs question. Why do they want PvE players in their PvP? Maybe for easy ganks?
There might be some good PvP players that aren't interested in the easy kills of PvE players, but you know what, I've encountered very few of those types in games. It's almost always groups of significantly more powerful PvP ganking me, or some jerk who waits until I can't respond, like when I'm trying to turn in a quest and am locked into the dialog window with the npc. You know, it doesn't take very many of those types of scum to drive away PvE players, and it turns out, they aren't even vaguely uncommon.
What can I say, there are bad people everywhere.
Maybe these specific pvp players, those who are overly aggressive and pvp because of a specific need to "ruin people's days" constantly need to attack people, whether it's in game or on a forum.
I'm sure you've seen or at least heard of those youtube videos where some player literally goes nuts because something happened that upsets them in a video game. Maybe they are a pvp player who loves pissing people off until they get "offed" and then they go nuts. Or maybe they are a raid leader who yells/screams/insults their own people.
These people have problems, real problems and unfortunately they inflict themselves on the rest of the community.
Until the community and the game companies decide "enough is enough" they are sadly here to stay.
I think the important thing is not to label a group "bad" but to look at the individual instead.
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What is the fixation with PvP players trying to get PvE players into their MMO's or wanting every PvE focused MMO to have PvP in it?
What's with this fixation to divide everything? Why can't a player like both? Why can't a game have both seamlessly integrated. Why can't you be taming a dragon in a dungeon, look across the way, see a player getting attacked by a player killer, and then you run over there and save his life? Maybe that player thanks you, and possible even befriends you. Why can't these things happen? Because we keep dividing everyone up into categories and segregate these activities. We used to be able to do these things though, and it was awesome.
You have a strange definition of "awesome" because getting ganked while fighting a dragon (or any other NPC Mob) was never awesome, never.
MMORPGs have too much potential to be limited to one or the other. If we treat mmorpgs like a body. If an mmorpg had either PvE or PvP it would be like losing half your body parts.
MMORPGs have too much potential to be limited to one or the other. If we treat mmorpgs like a body. If an mmorpg had either PvE or PvP it would be like losing half your body parts.
Why? EQ was PvE (beyond like 1 Server) and it was legendary.
MMORPGs have too much potential to be limited to one or the other. If we treat mmorpgs like a body. If an mmorpg had either PvE or PvP it would be like losing half your body parts.
Why? EQ was PvE (beyond like 1 Server) and it was legendary.
If one man can fight well while blind. Does that mean all who are blind will fight well?
I want balance. PvP should affect the world and the other way around. Mechanically they should be heavily separated though. A balance to the types can bring a solid playerbase to a game.
Nope. Almost all human body parts are needed for proper human functioning. Humans are designed to move and so they need those parts. And MMORPG is not like that at all.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you, as a player, I am looking to play a game, not apply for college, I should not need to do 'research', I should be able to look at their opening page, and have a solid idea what this game is about and offers. The game developers should make it super clear exactly what it is about.
If it's about PvP, it should not try to pander off that it has things for PvE players, as that is just duping them into a what is, essentially, a PvP game.
Which, makes me wonder.. why do PvP players think that is acceptable?
I'm not sure what in life doesn't require some research "unless of course you are an easy going sort who enjoys being surprised".
Here's the thing, many times when I see a complaint it's because someone didn't bother finding out what they were getting into.
And you have to sort of pick your level of involvement. If "no pvp" is your thing then spend the x amount of minutes required to find that out.
Otherwise what you are saying is "well, I see things I like there couldn't POSSIBLY be anything that I dislike ... WHAT?!?!?! PVP?!?!?!? I've been tricked!
And that's just ridiculous when all one had to do was figure a few things out beforehand. Being informed is not applying for college. It's about being a responsible and informed consumer.
And as far as your last paragrah, pvp players aren't black and white in their likes and dislikes all the time. I love pvp and I also enjoy pve and fishing for some reason. Why should I have to settle for a game that just has pvp?
No, sorry, I followed Black Desert and in no way shape or form do I think people were being tricked. It was just too obvious for people who spent a small amount of time so that they were clear about what they were buying. So again, if you or anyone is buying something without figuring out what is involved then who is really responsible? Be an informed consumer and you will have less nasty surprises and more positive ones.
No, what I mean is, f your game is about PvP, not putting that out, an saying right on the opening page, you know, where you tell me all the fun features of your "Vast Open Worlds" "No Classes" "Skill based Combat" "Mounts!" "Gliding!" "Fishing!" "Build your own farm" 'Tame horses!".. all that fun stuff that they want to tell you, I don't think it's asking too much, that in the middle of all that hype, you should mention if there are things I should know about, like.. oh "Other players killing you and looting your corpse" for example...
I mean, would you like it if a game was all hype and forgot to mention little things, like "OH yah, if you so much as cuss in this game we will ban you"
If you're gonna make a PvP game, own up to that, say 'Hey this is PVP!" don't try to down play that, or conveniently forget to mention that on the opening page, otherwise, it's exactly as I said.. "Why you trying to sucker PvE players into your PvP games?"
If it's PvP.. make that very clear from the start, so everyone that does not feel the itch to be ganked, can move on something else.. is that really asking too much?
Can you actually show an example because I've never seen a game that had pvp that didn't say that it existed. Not a one.
Opening Page. Notice, No mention of any PvP. Game Overview Page, Again.. no mention of PvP. They tell me all about their classes, immersive world, and all this jazz.. but.. don't mention that I am gonna get killed by other players, regardless if I like that idea or not.
maybe.. it's under combat... ?
Well I watched the video.. I see some epic fights, even fighting on horse back, but it all looks like NPC mobs, and.. yup.. No mention of PvP.
Ok.. so lets see.. I looked at their main page, where they sell me on their game.. and.. Nope.. no mention of PvP.
Now.. I actually have to look under "Warfare" .. and that's like majorly deceptive, because it looks like something I won't have to deal with, unless I want to. IE: I can simply not get involved in their whole Node Wars ting.
In fact, no were on the main pages, (the areas where they are trying to sell this game to you) do they tell you that "Yah, it's a PvP game, and you can't opt out"
If they hide it some place where I have to hunt down the info, that's a jerk move. They should put it in where they are trying to sell the game to me.
This is also why it's becoming harder and harder for games to sell B2P... players are losing their trust in the ads the game makers are showing them. If you game is about PvP.. own that like the ugly sweater it is.
There are asshats whose sole interest in a game is making other player feel bad. Those griefers and gankers are drawn to games that allow/encourage that behavior. Far too many pvp games don't discourage it, or have easily exploited rules sets. They make it tougher for the less extreme pvpers everywhere.
Open pvp checks a couple of 'Don't go there' buttons for me. Those games don't get my money. Or my friends money either.
Although, I must admit, Crowfall looks like they've figured out ways to deal with a number of these issues. Keeping a watch on it, with interest.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
More population... every PVP game depends on it. Every PVP game in MMORPGs require PVE to have an edge in PVP so the PVE needs to be good too..... we needs the PVE crowd badly, just as much as the PVP crowd.
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Comments
What's with this fixation to divide everything? Why can't a player like both? Why can't a game have both seamlessly integrated. Why can't you be taming a dragon in a dungeon, look across the way, see a player getting attacked by a player killer, and then you run over there and save his life? Maybe that player thanks you, and possible even befriends you. Why can't these things happen? Because we keep dividing everyone up into categories and segregate these activities. We used to be able to do these things though, and it was awesome.
For instance, "does this game have pvp".
Just looked up Archeage in the FAQ:
Combat
ArcheAge’s combat is varied and diverse, offering a multitude of ways for players to engage in both PvE and PvP.
PvE
Erenor is a dangerous world, brimming with monstrous threats for you
and your friends to defeat. Challenge instanced dungeons designed for 3,
5, and 10 players. Join small groups and challenge public co-op events
(like the southern world bosses). Compete with other players to defeat
fearsome world bosses. Face massive foes that will require raids of 50+
players to conquer.
PvP
ArcheAge offers an almost unparalleled variety of ways and reasons to
fight your fellow players. Battle against players of the opposing
faction as you encounter each other in the world, or become a terror
that hunts members of your own faction. Fight it out daily in massive,
un-instanced battlegrounds like Mistmerrow and the Sea of Graves. Become
a Pirate and prowl the high seas or valuable trade routes, picking off
unsuspecting merchants and stealing their Trade Packs. Lay siege to an
enemy nation’s castle and claim it as your own.
And there you go, if one wants to know more they can just take a minute and ask on some forum or write customer service.
This must be a generation thing as I don't really see why any of this is a big deal.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I would say that there are some loud, obnoxious pvp'ers who seem front and center and therefore make it seem that "most" pvp'ers are like bully kids.
As I've said before there are an equal amount of pve players who are also "bully kids". Only you can't do anything about them because "no pvp".
I've been in pve groups with some really abusive players. I also remember a time in Lord of the Rings online where this guy was getting upset about something, I don't remember what, but he decided to go in the area I was trying to get quest mobs and just kept mowing them down so I couldn't get them (he was a champion, I was playing a guardian".
So I think the real lesson here is "bad players are bad players".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That wasn't really the point. He is trying to say that games with extensive pve opportunities don't own up to the fact that there is pvp.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I really dont mind some pvp people acting absolutely drunk with power sometimes I think thats absolutely fine, what I want is some checks and balances so they have to make a decision, that there is something to weigh in before you kill someone, if you just leave people to run ramptant just because they will quickly ruin the whole echosystem, even EVE has checks and balances and artificial systems that make it so a whole spectrum of players can co-exist and thats how I like my pvp games.
On another note there is nothing wrong with pure kill on sight pvp games, but they are mostly arena shooters with RPG elements tacked on really, which is fine.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If you have to label someone as a "PvPer" then some are like that, sure. I would say they are hugely a minority, though. They will often turn the tide against them by their own hand.
I think the truth is far more complicated. Some players at times may enjoy stirring up trouble, but I have not seen anyone last that enjoys doing this all the time. More likely some players go through phases of different play styles, while some players never participate in certain types of behavior. As I previously stated, I *always* enjoy playing someone of similar or greater skill since it is an opportunity to learn. I am also bound by my guild's charter *not* to participate in piracy; we are *pirate hunters*.
The "schoolyard bully" analogy just isn't an accurate representation in my view; if it is then it's very poor game design.
I understand why it's tempting to make this comparison, but it's just not at all what occurs in the game I play; said bully would soon find he had poked his finger inside a beehive.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Whilst your leading question wants people to think that pvpers are just douches who want to slaughter carebears, that is not the case. I'm sure there are some dickheads that think like that, but they are a tiny minority of the pvp community.
The overwhelming majority of PvPers I have met enjoy both PvE and PvP. People lean more heavily one way or the other, but most enjoy both at various times. This is quite different to the PvE community who mostly only ever do PvE and never touch PvP.
So, when the PvP and PvE communities are segregated, it works out well for the pure PvErs. They get to play the game their way, which they consider the right way, and they get to feel happy about not having to interact with a section of the community which they both look down upon and fear.
The PvPers, on the other hand, lose out. Their PvP time stays the same, but their cross-over time is hurt. In games like WoW and SW:TOR where endgame gear progression is segregated, it forces the average gamer to choose between pvp or pve. If they choose PvP, they can have their fun and stay at the top of the power curve, but fall behind on the pve front which means they then can't raid with their friends / guildies. If they choose PvE, they get to stay at the top of the pve power curve, but fall behind in pvp, usually resulting in power gaps that ruin the fun.
Ultimately, segregation is just bad. We know this to be true from the real world and it is true in MMOs.
So, instead of harping on about segregating the community and ringfencing whatever playstyle you happen to like most, why not move the conversation towards breaking down barriers and thinking up solutions?
For example, a common "carebear" complaint is that they hate getting ganked all the time. Whats the solution? Firstly, some education - getting beaten 1v1 by someone better than you is not being ganked. Secondly, why were they so much better? Do they have a massive power advantage due to gear? If so, lets discuss progression mechanics that don't introduce power gaps.
Another common complaint is simply the amount of time it takes to become competitive in pvp. First, you have to level to cap. Then you have to maximise your build by grinding traits and gearing up. Then you usually have to get your arsed kicked for months while you rank up to acquire pvp gear, and even then you still need even longer to fully understand the game and get good. Who the hell wants to spend months / years of their time before PvP starts becoming fun?!?!? So lets discuss alternate ways to make pvp immediately fun, for example, using a monster play system like LotRO, or using horizontal progression so you're competitive from day 1.
There will always be problems integrating different communities and there are a lot of design challenges to overcome, but I'd rather discuss new designs and ways of moving this genre forwards rather than ruling out massive chunks of the market right from the start.
Fair, maybe not, but PvPers are rather vocal about wanting to PvP everyone everywhere. Why do they have to be able to F over everyone? Can't they stand the idea that some people aren't interested in backstabbing people?
Sees it as "ruining a perfectly good game". Maybe, but that isn't the OPs question. Why do they want PvE players in their PvP? Maybe for easy ganks?
There might be some good PvP players that aren't interested in the easy kills of PvE players, but you know what, I've encountered very few of those types in games. It's almost always groups of significantly more powerful PvP ganking me, or some jerk who waits until I can't respond, like when I'm trying to turn in a quest and am locked into the dialog window with the npc. You know, it doesn't take very many of those types of scum to drive away PvE players, and it turns out, they aren't even vaguely uncommon.
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
As I said above, zealotry is the real problem. There are a lot of PVPers who much prefer PVPing in designated PVP zones only against those who are there for the same purpose. I'm one of those.
The ones who want to gank oblivious questing PVErs all over the world are the minority, albeit loud forum tough guys.
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What can I say, there are bad people everywhere.
Maybe these specific pvp players, those who are overly aggressive and pvp because of a specific need to "ruin people's days" constantly need to attack people, whether it's in game or on a forum.
I'm sure you've seen or at least heard of those youtube videos where some player literally goes nuts because something happened that upsets them in a video game. Maybe they are a pvp player who loves pissing people off until they get "offed" and then they go nuts. Or maybe they are a raid leader who yells/screams/insults their own people.
These people have problems, real problems and unfortunately they inflict themselves on the rest of the community.
Until the community and the game companies decide "enough is enough" they are sadly here to stay.
I think the important thing is not to label a group "bad" but to look at the individual instead.
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You have a strange definition of "awesome" because getting ganked while fighting a dragon (or any other NPC Mob) was never awesome, never.
Why? EQ was PvE (beyond like 1 Server) and it was legendary.
If one man can fight well while blind. Does that mean all who are blind will fight well?
Sure. @Sovrath
Just look at: Black Desert Online.
Opening Page. Notice, No mention of any PvP.
Game Overview Page, Again.. no mention of PvP. They tell me all about their classes, immersive world, and all this jazz.. but.. don't mention that I am gonna get killed by other players, regardless if I like that idea or not.
maybe.. it's under combat... ?
Well I watched the video.. I see some epic fights, even fighting on horse back, but it all looks like NPC mobs, and.. yup.. No mention of PvP.
Ok.. so lets see.. I looked at their main page, where they sell me on their game.. and.. Nope.. no mention of PvP.
Now.. I actually have to look under "Warfare" .. and that's like majorly deceptive, because it looks like something I won't have to deal with, unless I want to. IE: I can simply not get involved in their whole Node Wars ting.
In fact, no were on the main pages, (the areas where they are trying to sell this game to you) do they tell you that "Yah, it's a PvP game, and you can't opt out"
If they hide it some place where I have to hunt down the info, that's a jerk move. They should put it in where they are trying to sell the game to me.
This is also why it's becoming harder and harder for games to sell B2P... players are losing their trust in the ads the game makers are showing them. If you game is about PvP.. own that like the ugly sweater it is.
There are asshats whose sole interest in a game is making other player feel bad. Those griefers and gankers are drawn to games that allow/encourage that behavior. Far too many pvp games don't discourage it, or have easily exploited rules sets. They make it tougher for the less extreme pvpers everywhere.
Open pvp checks a couple of 'Don't go there' buttons for me. Those games don't get my money. Or my friends money either.
Although, I must admit, Crowfall looks like they've figured out ways to deal with a number of these issues. Keeping a watch on it, with interest.
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