Devs have to find more and more new ways to get players to spend ever more money or they won't survive.
You really think it's about survival? No wonder so many of you are willing to rationalize monetization schemes that do harm to games if you think you're really looking at a game / no game scenario.
You don't think that just maybe what you're really looking at is profit / bigger profit?
Well I'm thinking of EVE now, CCP recently announced record income, yet clearly their flagship game EVE is lagging in terms of number of paying subs, down about 50% from its heyday judging from the number of folks online at any more time these days.
They made up for the decline in paying subs by finding alternate ways to monetize the game including skins, skill extractors, costumes etc to keep it viable despite the game's age and lack of significant content adds for quite some time.
Without these changes, I do question if CCP would have survived seeing how they pretty much botched up most everything else new they tried, including Dust514 and WOD.
I know, they've got some VR titles out on the market now, but I doubt they are significant revenue generators, EVEs still the cash cow.
Going back to BDO and your question, making more profit is not a bad thing, Gordon Gecko was not wrong, companies should always strive to increase their profits, it's their duty to shareholders / owners.
Of course, working for a major financial institution it might not surprise you I have that attitude.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Devs have to find more and more new ways to get players to spend ever more money or they won't survive.
You really think it's about survival? No wonder so many of you are willing to rationalize monetization schemes that do harm to games if you think you're really looking at a game / no game scenario.
You don't think that just maybe what you're really looking at is profit / bigger profit?
Well I'm thinking of EVE now, CCP recently announced record income, yet clearly their flagship game EVE is lagging in terms of number of paying subs, down about 50% from its heyday judging from the number of folks online at any more time these days.
They made up for the decline in paying subs by finding alternate ways to monetize the game including skins, skill extractors, costumes etc to keep it viable despite the game's age and lack of significant content adds for quite some time.
Without these changes, I do question if CCP would have survived seeing how they pretty much botched up most everything else new they tried, including Dust514 and WOD.
I know, they've got some VR titles out on the market now, but I doubt they are significant revenue generators, EVEs still the cash cow.
I'm sure it applies in some cases for some games. But generalizing and implying that it's always a game survival thing is silly. Very robust games with no issues whatsoever do it too for more profits... but you knew that.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Devs have to find more and more new ways to get players to spend ever more money or they won't survive.
You really think it's about survival? No wonder so many of you are willing to rationalize monetization schemes that do harm to games if you think you're really looking at a game / no game scenario.
You don't think that just maybe what you're really looking at is profit / bigger profit?
Well I'm thinking of EVE now, CCP recently announced record income, yet clearly their flagship game EVE is lagging in terms of number of paying subs, down about 50% from its heyday judging from the number of folks online at any more time these days.
They made up for the decline in paying subs by finding alternate ways to monetize the game including skins, skill extractors, costumes etc to keep it viable despite the game's age and lack of significant content adds for quite some time.
Without these changes, I do question if CCP would have survived seeing how they pretty much botched up most everything else new they tried, including Dust514 and WOD.
I know, they've got some VR titles out on the market now, but I doubt they are significant revenue generators, EVEs still the cash cow.
I'm sure it applies in some cases for some games. But generalizing and implying that it's always a game survival thing is silly. Very robust games with no issues whatsoever do it too for more profits... but you knew that.
I believe you have one specific game in mind in making your statement about it being all about profits, and like you said, that applies in some cases for some games.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Buying three pets is about all you need to do, loyalty points get you most of what else is needed. BDO is P2W like virtually every other MMO out their now, but in a limited way. Mostly its fluff, and does not allow you to purchase your way past the RNG grind.
Devs have to find more and more new ways to get players to spend ever more money or they won't survive.
You really think it's about survival? No wonder so many of you are willing to rationalize monetization schemes that do harm to games if you think you're really looking at a game / no game scenario.
You don't think that just maybe what you're really looking at is profit / bigger profit?
Well I'm thinking of EVE now, CCP recently announced record income, yet clearly their flagship game EVE is lagging in terms of number of paying subs, down about 50% from its heyday judging from the number of folks online at any more time these days.
They made up for the decline in paying subs by finding alternate ways to monetize the game including skins, skill extractors, costumes etc to keep it viable despite the game's age and lack of significant content adds for quite some time.
Without these changes, I do question if CCP would have survived seeing how they pretty much botched up most everything else new they tried, including Dust514 and WOD.
I know, they've got some VR titles out on the market now, but I doubt they are significant revenue generators, EVEs still the cash cow.
I'm sure it applies in some cases for some games. But generalizing and implying that it's always a game survival thing is silly. Very robust games with no issues whatsoever do it too for more profits... but you knew that.
I believe you have one specific game in mind in making your statement about it being all about profits, and like you said, that applies in some cases for some games.
Care in over generalizations goes both ways.
WOW? SWTOR? GW2? Those were the ones I was thinking about.
There's nothing wrong with profits, you know. The only people who feel a need to say that the poor devs need to do it are the ones who do have a problem with more profits... ironically.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Devs have to find more and more new ways to get players to spend ever more money or they won't survive.
You really think it's about survival? No wonder so many of you are willing to rationalize monetization schemes that do harm to games if you think you're really looking at a game / no game scenario.
You don't think that just maybe what you're really looking at is profit / bigger profit?
Well I'm thinking of EVE now, CCP recently announced record income, yet clearly their flagship game EVE is lagging in terms of number of paying subs, down about 50% from its heyday judging from the number of folks online at any more time these days.
They made up for the decline in paying subs by finding alternate ways to monetize the game including skins, skill extractors, costumes etc to keep it viable despite the game's age and lack of significant content adds for quite some time.
Without these changes, I do question if CCP would have survived seeing how they pretty much botched up most everything else new they tried, including Dust514 and WOD.
I know, they've got some VR titles out on the market now, but I doubt they are significant revenue generators, EVEs still the cash cow.
I'm sure it applies in some cases for some games. But generalizing and implying that it's always a game survival thing is silly. Very robust games with no issues whatsoever do it too for more profits... but you knew that.
I believe you have one specific game in mind in making your statement about it being all about profits, and like you said, that applies in some cases for some games.
Care in over generalizations goes both ways.
WOW? SWTOR? GW2? Those were the ones I was thinking about.
There's nothing wrong with profits, you know. The only people who feel a need to say that the poor devs need to do it are the ones who do have a problem with more profits... ironically.
ESO. You previously stated your displeasure over recent design changes which appear to support additional monetization, despite Zeni clearly not needing more cash to "survive"
I have no issue with making profits btw, in fact I support maximizing them, but you seem to be projecting on me that I believe otherwise.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Why do gamers expect developers to make as little as possible and sell their products for the narrowest of margins? I see that sentiment echoed a lot. At least that's what I hear.
I understand the other perspective because mmo gaming is so much more expensive than any other genre in the industry except maybe some really fringe niche sim stuff (you can dump tens of thousands in hardware doing sims). So I understand the complaint that mmo gaming seems like a cash grab.
I feel personally that mmo publishers ask a little more than what they deliver compared to single player titles, especially those that support mods. On the other hand, it's what the market will bear at the moment.
I agree in general but a more interesting question to me is why do gamers feel a need to defend any and all cash shop offerings on the basis of game survival?
It's the same assumption that is made when a game changes business models: "They had to go F2P or close the doors." That may be true in some cases but it's just as plausible that they make changes to business models or add new categories to cash shops simply because they want to hit a better profit target than what they're currently doing... and there is nothing wrong with that.
Those changes and additions don't need to be triggered by an impending extinction event. Yet we hear that over and over again from the fanbois.
We can like or dislike or be totally indifferent about business models or cash shop content but we don't need uninformed fantasies that try to portray it as need.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
That's not the type of "need" that gamers talk about when they say "they needed to do it" to defend a business model or cash shop change though is it?
It's typically used to imply a desperate last ditch effort.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well this whole basis of "make the base game not fun unless you keep spending money" is what drove me away from Gw2.
To be sincere, if BDO is like that I won't ever touch it. I'm tired of having to "prove" that I'm a good player by injecting money instead of neat rewards be given due events or achievements to reward my participation with the community.
If "that's a standard" then I'm out. There are good games out there to be enjoyed (non-mmorpg or otherwise) so no point bashing my head is a "you are not as good as that person who spent money" simulator. I can go to the mall and watch people buying expensive clothes if I want that experience.
I don't think BDO is like that, it is P2W, but then I have a very low bar on what I call P2W. What intrigued me is you think you can step away from the issues generated by cash shops. Apparently ESO is moving to more monetization, have we not learned by now that P2W is the way all MMOs end up going?
I play MMOs in spite of the P2W, in a guild of like minded players who realise the days of a fair playing field are gone. If anyone out there can say their MMO is not P2W, do you really think its going to be that way in a years time? They all end up the same way.
Finally you can't go to solo gaming and avoid this. From pre-order to dlc, solo games are designed as if they have a cash shop. Indeed many now do, if you have enough dlc that's a cash shop surely? The ever increasing multiplayer element in "solo" games means solo games are becoming more like MMOs and that allows gaming studios to build in more and more cash shop like features.
The cash shop is the face of gaming today, while P2W is the gaming studios favoured playstyle because it is so favoured by that monetisation model.
I agree, not only do I not play this game anymore after trying because of XingCode, but the cash shop is a complete cash grab.
- Limited functioning Housing Items (With Charges) that expire
- Costumes are per Character / Class only
- Needed to always buy items from the cash shop to improve chances of enchantment or use in game money which requires farming
- Boring Quest system that is every week farm 5 -7 scrolls run them boring for awhile its not so bad after awhile gets boring.
Comparing to ESO which isn't a cash grab.
ESO is more of cosmetics, and pay for housing content, I don't see the current point in a housing system in ESO but ESO itself is more about cosmetics than functioning items that effect game-play or constantly having to take out broken furniture and replace it over and over again which is boring.
- ESO has a better story
Even Blade & Soul has a better game-play story than Black Desert Online... (Too bad I can't play because of Game Guard.) But I played it for awhile while Game Guard was disabled was a good game or at least decent to play once in awhile.
"BDO makes money by making the game way more enjoyable if you spend money. The base game is crippled on purpose to force players to spend money.
Its Pay 2 Enjoy"
Agreed. To me, it's even worse than straight up p2w. Instead of withholding power, they have devised the game from the core to withhold FUN from you whenever possible by implementing countless inconviences that can be alleviated only (or MUCH easier/realistically) by the cash shop.
I'd much rather have content or even power withheld from me than fun. At least with games that make you pay for content (not that they are introducing anything that is traditionally called "content" in BDO), if you don't pay, you can still have fun in the content you did pay for.
BDO's monetization scheme is basically pure-evil from the standpoint of a gamer.
Basically you have to spend more money after buy the game to enjoy it ?
no, not at all.
you don't have to buy anything in order to really enjoy the game, its that good, and the new striker class, is a lot of fun, particularly if you are a fan of Zell from FF-VII at all. Pets are not a requirement, but you will find that people buy them not just because of convenience but because they have a 'cute factor' also why loot bodies yourself if you can have your pets do it for you? They do have more functions like, cats can spot resource nodes for you dependent on which harvesting tool you have equipped, though chances are you will spot them before the cat does so they are not that useful except as an extra pet to pick up stuff, birds can spot elite level mobs for you, and dogs can spot hostile, as in pvp enabled, players for you. The main thing that affects the game is the VIP pack, its roughly the cost of a monthly sub and it expands your inventory slots significantly (+16 i think) and also expands your bank inventory space, it also gives a boost to xp for all types of activity life/horse/trade/combat etc. its not a huge boost but every little helps, you can easily play the game without buying it, but again its a conveniece item, as it also boosts the amount of weight you can carry by 100 lt. There is no requirement to buy things from the pearl shop, but if you play the game long term you will find that you gradually succumb to buying 'something' and the outfits do look pretty awesome, particularly on the female characters, lots of eye candy, and some of them would probably make lady ga ga blush.
Comments
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm sure it applies in some cases for some games. But generalizing and implying that it's always a game survival thing is silly. Very robust games with no issues whatsoever do it too for more profits... but you knew that.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Care in over generalizations goes both ways.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
BDO is P2W like virtually every other MMO out their now, but in a limited way. Mostly its fluff, and does not allow you to purchase your way past the RNG grind.
There's nothing wrong with profits, you know. The only people who feel a need to say that the poor devs need to do it are the ones who do have a problem with more profits... ironically.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have no issue with making profits btw, in fact I support maximizing them, but you seem to be projecting on me that I believe otherwise.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's the same assumption that is made when a game changes business models: "They had to go F2P or close the doors." That may be true in some cases but it's just as plausible that they make changes to business models or add new categories to cash shops simply because they want to hit a better profit target than what they're currently doing... and there is nothing wrong with that.
Those changes and additions don't need to be triggered by an impending extinction event. Yet we hear that over and over again from the fanbois.
We can like or dislike or be totally indifferent about business models or cash shop content but we don't need uninformed fantasies that try to portray it as need.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It's typically used to imply a desperate last ditch effort.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't think BDO is like that, it is P2W, but then I have a very low bar on what I call P2W. What intrigued me is you think you can step away from the issues generated by cash shops. Apparently ESO is moving to more monetization, have we not learned by now that P2W is the way all MMOs end up going?
I play MMOs in spite of the P2W, in a guild of like minded players who realise the days of a fair playing field are gone. If anyone out there can say their MMO is not P2W, do you really think its going to be that way in a years time? They all end up the same way.
Finally you can't go to solo gaming and avoid this. From pre-order to dlc, solo games are designed as if they have a cash shop. Indeed many now do, if you have enough dlc that's a cash shop surely? The ever increasing multiplayer element in "solo" games means solo games are becoming more like MMOs and that allows gaming studios to build in more and more cash shop like features.
The cash shop is the face of gaming today, while P2W is the gaming studios favoured playstyle because it is so favoured by that monetisation model.
- Limited functioning Housing Items (With Charges) that expire
- Costumes are per Character / Class only
- Needed to always buy items from the cash shop to improve chances of enchantment or use in game money which requires farming
- Boring Quest system that is every week farm 5 -7 scrolls run them boring for awhile its not so bad after awhile gets boring.
Comparing to ESO which isn't a cash grab.
ESO is more of cosmetics, and pay for housing content, I don't see the current point in a housing system in ESO but ESO itself is more about cosmetics than functioning items that effect game-play or constantly having to take out broken furniture and replace it over and over again which is boring.
- ESO has a better story
Even Blade & Soul has a better game-play story than Black Desert Online... (Too bad I can't play because of Game Guard.) But I played it for awhile while Game Guard was disabled was a good game or at least decent to play once in awhile.
Pets are not a requirement, but you will find that people buy them not just because of convenience but because they have a 'cute factor' also why loot bodies yourself if you can have your pets do it for you?
They do have more functions like, cats can spot resource nodes for you dependent on which harvesting tool you have equipped, though chances are you will spot them before the cat does so they are not that useful except as an extra pet to pick up stuff, birds can spot elite level mobs for you, and dogs can spot hostile, as in pvp enabled, players for you.
The main thing that affects the game is the VIP pack, its roughly the cost of a monthly sub and it expands your inventory slots significantly (+16 i think) and also expands your bank inventory space, it also gives a boost to xp for all types of activity life/horse/trade/combat etc. its not a huge boost but every little helps, you can easily play the game without buying it, but again its a conveniece item, as it also boosts the amount of weight you can carry by 100 lt.
There is no requirement to buy things from the pearl shop, but if you play the game long term you will find that you gradually succumb to buying 'something' and the outfits do look pretty awesome, particularly on the female characters, lots of eye candy, and some of them would probably make lady ga ga blush.