I see talk of how 3 of the top 6 games on steam are EA (early access) but no numbers for how many EA games are in the bottom. For every good game that used EA in its intended way, there are a half dozen games that used it just to get their junk on steam and make a quick buck.
I purchased Kerbal and love it. I have over 300 hours in that game. Those guys did EA right but what about games like:
Some of these developers just grabbed the money, announced "game released" and took off with players money.
While I love the idea of EA, Steam needs to screen these games much better and change their agreements to require companies to provide refunds if the game does not deliver on its marketing. Time limits on EA would also be nice. A friend gifted me Maia back in Jan of 2014 and it is still a shell of a game after 3+ years. It would have been nice to know on their steam page that the developer was a single person and this project was going to take 6 to 8 years.
I don't have any concrete numbers (none of us do), but I suspect for every early access done right, there are quite a few scams and/or money grabs. That's what makes investing in early access games not worth it.
Actually, I took all games on Steam tagged with the term Kickstarter and compared that against the remaining steam games and there is, literally zero difference in quality based on Steam thumbs-up/down. I believe it was within a margin of error of 5%
From a quality perspective I don't think there is any difference. The main issue is that we forget that there are plenty of shitty games being made every day without crowdfunding. They just aren't celebrated. Same goes for KS games. The only time we hear about shifty ones is when some is using it to support an agenda. The fact is that there is little difference based on the Steam ratings.
Do you mean you personally took the 15 000+ games on Steam and counted averages of their rankings? Or do you mean to say you used SteamSpy data?
If you're using SteamSpy data please remember to tell your source instead of claiming that you've done it.
Sorry about this post, but it just feels unbelievable that someone on these forums would have personally started counting averages of Steam rankings when the data is already available on SteamSpy.
"Welcome to Steam Spy, your one stop source of speculative data for games related forum posts, holywars and business plans."
we dont try to change football because some drunk guys play on sunday night in a street dont take it seriously. We look at the more popular football players.
trying to complain about an entire system because of a small handful of games with very few purchases and most of with have been delt with is being very unfair
So based on your list, you assume there are many more good games on EA than bad games? For the 20 games you list, I could easily list 40 terrible games on EA. I also dont understand your point about the drunk playing football. That is not even close to a fair analogy. If the NFL was composed of 60 teams and 40 did not take it seriously THEN you would have a fair comparison.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
trying to complain about an entire system because of a small handful of games with very few purchases and most of with have been delt with is being very unfair
Could you please elaborate on your comment above that most of these games have been "dealt with"? How have the following games been "dealt with"?
Novus Inceptio Orange Moon Elements II: Hearts of Light Medieval Playground
How have games that milked EA and then supposedly "launched" been dealt with?
Kinetic Void Spacebase DF-9
Please enlighten us...
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
I see talk of how 3 of the top 6 games on steam are EA (early access) but no numbers for how many EA games are in the bottom. For every good game that used EA in its intended way, there are a half dozen games that used it just to get their junk on steam and make a quick buck.
I purchased Kerbal and love it. I have over 300 hours in that game. Those guys did EA right but what about games like:
Some of these developers just grabbed the money, announced "game released" and took off with players money.
While I love the idea of EA, Steam needs to screen these games much better and change their agreements to require companies to provide refunds if the game does not deliver on its marketing. Time limits on EA would also be nice. A friend gifted me Maia back in Jan of 2014 and it is still a shell of a game after 3+ years. It would have been nice to know on their steam page that the developer was a single person and this project was going to take 6 to 8 years.
I don't have any concrete numbers (none of us do), but I suspect for every early access done right, there are quite a few scams and/or money grabs. That's what makes investing in early access games not worth it.
Actually, I took all games on Steam tagged with the term Kickstarter and compared that against the remaining steam games and there is, literally zero difference in quality based on Steam thumbs-up/down. I believe it was within a margin of error of 5%
From a quality perspective I don't think there is any difference. The main issue is that we forget that there are plenty of shitty games being made every day without crowdfunding. They just aren't celebrated. Same goes for KS games. The only time we hear about shifty ones is when some is using it to support an agenda. The fact is that there is little difference based on the Steam ratings.
Do you mean you personally took the 15 000+ games on Steam and counted averages of their rankings? Or do you mean to say you used SteamSpy data?
If you're using SteamSpy data please remember to tell your source instead of claiming that you've done it.
Sorry about this post, but it just feels unbelievable that someone on these forums would have personally started counting averages of Steam rankings when the data is already available on SteamSpy.
Yes, on Steam, not steam spy. It's actually not that difficult since you can sort by rankings, right? Then there are x per page, so it's more of an exercise in math than tedium.
Seeing the difference in Metacritic scores might be more exact, but I'd probably need a script for that task.
Also..I am nearly positive if you had never played early access titles I could put you in a room and have you play a game and after about 30 hours you would still have no idea the game was incomplete.
i can think of several titles I could have done that with.
Then why call it Early Access? What's the benefit?
I dont give a rats ass what its called but I can tell you the benifit. Here is three stories Gabe Newel gave (I paraphrase). His story is trying to explain by example to advantage of AGILE programming to laymen.
'we had an Apple app that needed a fix, the fix took us 5 mins, it took us 6 months to get the change approved, if you can deploy something as soon as its done then you can get immediate feedback as to if it works and even if its something the users want'
'Developers would work years perfecting what they felt was ideal game only to find once its deployed people didnt like it' fast iteration of feedback from your customers allows you to adjust quickly.
'Communities have been known to find ways to exploit games within less than 24 hours of deployement despite month of testing' no testing team ever can compete with thousands of players providing implict feedback.
I'm not sure how that answers my question. A simple name change would not prevent anything you posted from happening.
so are you trying to suggest all this flame against early access, from Sterling to Forum heros posting about all the evils of early access is because of the fucking title of the system? I call bullshit on that one too
For a group hyper sensitive about fucking semantics one would think they would also have thought that using the term EAG instead of EA as a acronym to reduce confusion would have been painfully obvious but I guess not. anyway I digress.
I DONT CARE WHAT ITS CALLED.
Not sure why such a simple question is so hard to answer. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. Nothing you listed would be precluded by having a game released instead of called Early Access. So again, WHY call it Early Access and not just the standard release?
no everything I listed WOULD not be possible with official release as people expect that model to currently exist.
we dont try to change football because some drunk guys play on sunday night in a street dont take it seriously. We look at the more popular football players.
trying to complain about an entire system because of a small handful of games with very few purchases and most of with have been delt with is being very unfair
So based on your list, you assume there are many more good games on EA than bad games? For the 20 games you list, I could easily list 40 terrible games on EA. I also dont understand your point about the drunk playing football. That is not even close to a fair analogy. If the NFL was composed of 60 teams and 40 did not take it seriously THEN you would have a fair comparison.
It would seem our local NFL team the Tampa Bay Bucs don't take football very seriously.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
we dont try to change football because some drunk guys play on sunday night in a street dont take it seriously. We look at the more popular football players.
trying to complain about an entire system because of a small handful of games with very few purchases and most of with have been delt with is being very unfair
So based on your list, you assume there are many more good games on EA than bad games? For the 20 games you list, I could easily list 40 terrible games on EA. I also dont understand your point about the drunk playing football. That is not even close to a fair analogy. If the NFL was composed of 60 teams and 40 did not take it seriously THEN you would have a fair comparison.
It would seem our local NFL team the Tampa Bay Bucs don't take football very seriously.
Owners are too busy with Manny U.
Sports owners are not always motivated by WINNING.. but rather by profits. Some want to win at all costs (Marl Cuban.. George Steinbrenner)... others just want a profit machine.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Also..I am nearly positive if you had never played early access titles I could put you in a room and have you play a game and after about 30 hours you would still have no idea the game was incomplete.
i can think of several titles I could have done that with.
Then why call it Early Access? What's the benefit?
I dont give a rats ass what its called but I can tell you the benifit. Here is three stories Gabe Newel gave (I paraphrase). His story is trying to explain by example to advantage of AGILE programming to laymen.
'we had an Apple app that needed a fix, the fix took us 5 mins, it took us 6 months to get the change approved, if you can deploy something as soon as its done then you can get immediate feedback as to if it works and even if its something the users want'
'Developers would work years perfecting what they felt was ideal game only to find once its deployed people didnt like it' fast iteration of feedback from your customers allows you to adjust quickly.
'Communities have been known to find ways to exploit games within less than 24 hours of deployement despite month of testing' no testing team ever can compete with thousands of players providing implict feedback.
I'm not sure how that answers my question. A simple name change would not prevent anything you posted from happening.
so are you trying to suggest all this flame against early access, from Sterling to Forum heros posting about all the evils of early access is because of the fucking title of the system? I call bullshit on that one too
For a group hyper sensitive about fucking semantics one would think they would also have thought that using the term EAG instead of EA as a acronym to reduce confusion would have been painfully obvious but I guess not. anyway I digress.
I DONT CARE WHAT ITS CALLED.
Not sure why such a simple question is so hard to answer. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. Nothing you listed would be precluded by having a game released instead of called Early Access. So again, WHY call it Early Access and not just the standard release?
no everything I listed WOULD not be possible with official release as people expect that model to currently exist.
This makes a little less then no sense at all.
that might be because I have no idea what his point was.
I 'think' he was saying all the things I mentioned that makes eearly access what it is (AGILE programming for exmaple) would be possible in non-early access.
ok...cool story...not sure why that fact would make early access bad other than a concern over semanitcs
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
we dont try to change football because some drunk guys play on sunday night in a street dont take it seriously. We look at the more popular football players.
trying to complain about an entire system because of a small handful of games with very few purchases and most of with have been delt with is being very unfair
So based on your list, you assume there are many more good games on EA than bad games? For the 20 games you list, I could easily list 40 terrible games on EA. I also dont understand your point about the drunk playing football. That is not even close to a fair analogy. If the NFL was composed of 60 teams and 40 did not take it seriously THEN you would have a fair comparison.
no based on what I said it means I am highly confident tha the vast majority of people buying early access titles are buying the good ones and the bad ones (although might or might not be the majority) are not being purchased and are falling off the list of attention.
just like the drunk guys playing basketball are not taken as serious as members of the NBA
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Also..I am nearly positive if you had never played early access titles I could put you in a room and have you play a game and after about 30 hours you would still have no idea the game was incomplete.
i can think of several titles I could have done that with.
Then why call it Early Access? What's the benefit?
I dont give a rats ass what its called but I can tell you the benifit. Here is three stories Gabe Newel gave (I paraphrase). His story is trying to explain by example to advantage of AGILE programming to laymen.
'we had an Apple app that needed a fix, the fix took us 5 mins, it took us 6 months to get the change approved, if you can deploy something as soon as its done then you can get immediate feedback as to if it works and even if its something the users want'
'Developers would work years perfecting what they felt was ideal game only to find once its deployed people didnt like it' fast iteration of feedback from your customers allows you to adjust quickly.
'Communities have been known to find ways to exploit games within less than 24 hours of deployement despite month of testing' no testing team ever can compete with thousands of players providing implict feedback.
I'm not sure how that answers my question. A simple name change would not prevent anything you posted from happening.
so are you trying to suggest all this flame against early access, from Sterling to Forum heros posting about all the evils of early access is because of the fucking title of the system? I call bullshit on that one too
For a group hyper sensitive about fucking semantics one would think they would also have thought that using the term EAG instead of EA as a acronym to reduce confusion would have been painfully obvious but I guess not. anyway I digress.
I DONT CARE WHAT ITS CALLED.
Not sure why such a simple question is so hard to answer. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. Nothing you listed would be precluded by having a game released instead of called Early Access. So again, WHY call it Early Access and not just the standard release?
no everything I listed WOULD not be possible with official release as people expect that model to currently exist.
This makes a little less then no sense at all.
that might be because I have no idea what his point was.
I 'think' he was saying all the things I mentioned that makes eearly access what it is (AGILE programming for exmaple) would be possible in non-early access.
ok...cool story...not sure why that fact would make early access bad other than a concern over semanitcs
Well.. "Agile programming" is a fancy way to say "Untested" which by and large ends in massive bugs getting into the code.. unless they were programmed by Dahl himself...
Well.. "Agile programming" is a fancy way to say "Untested" which by and large ends in massive bugs getting into the code.. unless they were programmed by Dahl himself...
you can feel however you like about 'agile programming' but its very popular in software developement, has been battle tested and frankly works. So if you want to take on the establishment of the entire software development industry in one of its most recognized important aspects then have at it.
but that is not the subject here, nor the question.
My question is
WHAT DIFFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHAT ITS (EARLY ACCESS) CALLED ?
So if someone says 'why call it earlyy access then? why have it in earlyy access?' my question is this, if there is ZERO material difference in how the game is worked on or sold to the public between using it in earlyy access vs non-early access then what material difference does the question or implied point even matter?
people are complaining about early access yet they suggest the exact same business model could be applied to non-early access games and that solves what problem and how?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Also..I am nearly positive if you had never played early access titles I could put you in a room and have you play a game and after about 30 hours you would still have no idea the game was incomplete.
i can think of several titles I could have done that with.
Then why call it Early Access? What's the benefit?
I dont give a rats ass what its called but I can tell you the benifit. Here is three stories Gabe Newel gave (I paraphrase). His story is trying to explain by example to advantage of AGILE programming to laymen.
'we had an Apple app that needed a fix, the fix took us 5 mins, it took us 6 months to get the change approved, if you can deploy something as soon as its done then you can get immediate feedback as to if it works and even if its something the users want'
'Developers would work years perfecting what they felt was ideal game only to find once its deployed people didnt like it' fast iteration of feedback from your customers allows you to adjust quickly.
'Communities have been known to find ways to exploit games within less than 24 hours of deployement despite month of testing' no testing team ever can compete with thousands of players providing implict feedback.
I'm not sure how that answers my question. A simple name change would not prevent anything you posted from happening.
so are you trying to suggest all this flame against early access, from Sterling to Forum heros posting about all the evils of early access is because of the fucking title of the system? I call bullshit on that one too
For a group hyper sensitive about fucking semantics one would think they would also have thought that using the term EAG instead of EA as a acronym to reduce confusion would have been painfully obvious but I guess not. anyway I digress.
I DONT CARE WHAT ITS CALLED.
Not sure why such a simple question is so hard to answer. Perhaps you misunderstood my point. Nothing you listed would be precluded by having a game released instead of called Early Access. So again, WHY call it Early Access and not just the standard release?
no everything I listed WOULD not be possible with official release as people expect that model to currently exist.
This makes a little less then no sense at all.
that might be because I have no idea what his point was.
I 'think' he was saying all the things I mentioned that makes eearly access what it is (AGILE programming for exmaple) would be possible in non-early access.
ok...cool story...not sure why that fact would make early access bad other than a concern over semanitcs
Well.. "Agile programming" is a fancy way to say "Untested" which by and large ends in massive bugs getting into the code.. unless they were programmed by Dahl himself...
you can feel however you like about 'agile programming' but its very popular in software developement, has been battle tested and frankly works. So if you want to take on the establishment of the entire software development industry in one of its most recognized important aspects then have at it.
but that is not the subject here, nor the question.
My question is
WHAT DIFFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHAT ITS (EARLY ACCESS) CALLED ?
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
OK.. I just gotta ask you to show where I "suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system ".
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
OK.. I just gotta ask you to show where I "suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system ".
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
Seems to me it was Steam who decided to call their selection of those games EA. They even offer a short header to explain what it means.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Seems to me it was Steam who decided to call their selection of those games EA. They even offer a short header to explain what it means.
It means Early Access games are NOT pre-orders, are not crowdfunds, and so forth. The terms of steam EA imply simply this: The unfinished game is the finished product.
That's what people bought, those who don't want to live with that should simply avoid it. There's a lot of entitlement going around... Some want Kickstarter to be some sort of Pre-Order platform as well because they want guarantees and refuse the risks.
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
OK.. I just gotta ask you to show where I "suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system ".
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
so you agree then with me that the name of the system doesnt really matter.
so why are you asking me 'why do they name it'...who cares? what does it have to do with this dicussion other than nothing whatsoever?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
OK.. I just gotta ask you to show where I "suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system ".
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
I don't think we can stop it and I don't believe it has an off switch.
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
OK.. I just gotta ask you to show where I "suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system ".
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
so you agree then with me that the name of the system doesnt really matter.
so why are you asking me 'why do they name it'...who cares? what does it have to do with this dicussion other than nothing whatsoever?
As there was no apology there for making up statements I guess this means the conversation ends.
Have a great weekend!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ask the people who named it Early Access(the developers). Maybe they can explain it to you in a way you would understand as nobody here has been able to get you to understand this yet.
if there is no material difference then its a stupid question that is off topic.
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach. 'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
It is purely semantics but the semantics are caused by the people who NAMED it... also known as the developers. So AGAIN, feel free to ask the D.E.V.E.L.O.P.E.R.S. why they choose the moniker.
'who named the semantics' doesnt matter.
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
OK.. I just gotta ask you to show where I "suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system ".
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
I don't think we can stop it and I don't believe it has an off switch.
Probably just faulty design.
I fail to understand how chaning the name of the early access system would make any material difference to any of the complaints here but I will say, if it does, lets go for it!
what should we call it? maybte 'pointy stick'?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
~~ postlarval ~~
Novus Inceptio
Orange Moon
Elements II: Hearts of Light
Medieval Playground
How have games that milked EA and then supposedly "launched" been dealt with?
Kinetic Void
Spacebase DF-9
Please enlighten us...
Yes, on Steam, not steam spy. It's actually not that difficult since you can sort by rankings, right? Then there are x per page, so it's more of an exercise in math than tedium.
Seeing the difference in Metacritic scores might be more exact, but I'd probably need a script for that task.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
It would seem our local NFL team the Tampa Bay Bucs don't take football very seriously.
Owners are too busy with Manny U.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I 'think' he was saying all the things I mentioned that makes eearly access what it is (AGILE programming for exmaple) would be possible in non-early access.
ok...cool story...not sure why that fact would make early access bad other than a concern over semanitcs
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
just like the drunk guys playing basketball are not taken as serious as members of the NBA
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
but that is not the subject here, nor the question.
My question is
WHAT
DIFFFERENCE
DOES
IT
MAKE
WHAT
ITS (EARLY ACCESS)
CALLED
?
So if someone says 'why call it earlyy access then? why have it in earlyy access?'
my question is this, if there is ZERO material difference in how the game is worked on or sold to the public between using it in earlyy access vs non-early access then what material difference does the question or implied point even matter?
people are complaining about early access yet they suggest the exact same business model could be applied to non-early access games and that solves what problem and how?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am asking you why you are asking and specificallyy why you think its revalant
you think it fine to make a game EXACTLY the same as it is in early access, with the EXACT same approach to customers just not call it 'earlyy access' and that wil solve everything.
throw me a fucking bone and tell me the difference!
here maybe this approach.
'explain to me in how its not purely semantics'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
However, when you suggest that the entire root of the 'problem' with early access is not business model, not lazy developers, not bugs, not broken promises but the name of the system I do not believe that you believe that.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Now you are just making shit up out of the air. So please do not even bother to respond unless it includes an apology for making things up wholesale as otherwise this conversation is pointless as there is no basis in reality to serve as a reference point.
This thread has turned into 10 pages of pretty much you arguing with the entire community of MMORPG.COM
There is OBVIOUSLY a reason that developers name it early access. Ask THEM why it matters. THEY choose the name, not us.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The terms of steam EA imply simply this: The unfinished game is the finished product.
That's what people bought, those who don't want to live with that should simply avoid it. There's a lot of entitlement going around... Some want Kickstarter to be some sort of Pre-Order platform as well because they want guarantees and refuse the risks.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
so why are you asking me 'why do they name it'...who cares? what does it have to do with this dicussion other than nothing whatsoever?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I don't think we can stop it and I don't believe it has an off switch.
Probably just faulty design.
~~ postlarval ~~
Have a great weekend!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018