Other than on the Wizards website, this is the first time I'll admit that I was working on a Magic-themed MMO project for a couple of years before they teased making one of their own.. It was all design phase and I never did get to approach WotC with the idea.. Oh well.. I guess I should root for them to do well and not be bitter..
I hope it lives up to the amazing lore, monsters, and worlds that it has to draw from.. Its really a great IP and great for an MMO.. Just forget about the pay-for-cards/packs idea WotC, as spell accumulation works perfectly fine without that aspect..
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
I don't think you could make a Magic the Gathering anything without it being pay to win. The card game was pay to win even before we had heard of pay to win.
I don't think you could make a game like Magic without it being p2w. It's the nature of the beast for the genre. Either you accept it or find something else to do.
Actually it warms my heart to see all the anti cash shop sentiments in this thread.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I'm on the fence with this... I really like Cryptic since CoH, and I had my fair share of MtG (several years), so this announcement should be an obvious for me... except two concerns.
First, the money. As others already said, MtG was the very first iteration of p2w, just as the lockbox mechanic (the boosters). Heck, when I stopped it was also about the money but at least at the end I could sell my collection (except a few cards I was attached for some reasons) and got some part of my money back.
When you have a duo like WotC (several decades of experience about skimming the players) paired with PWE (its entire existence is about honing and adjusting f2p and p2w mechanics), you can be sure the monetization will be top notch, highest-grade quality possible. Which also means "fly, you fools!" from the players' side. Unless you're a whale, of course.
Not to mention it is all digital, so after a close or cancel, it all goes poof. With cards, even if WotC crashes, you still can play, or sell, or anything. Maybe that's why I've spent less than $10 so far on digital card games (and I played mostly all of them during the years, just for the fun).
Speaking of which, there's already a MtG Online... oh, right. This will be an MMO and not simply an online Magic. Which leads to my other concern:
second, the gameplay. Ok, I'm now a bit more bitter on the subject with they've killed TSW for it, but speaking against pew-pew since years... who the f.ck at WotC or PWE decided that for a game which is all about strategy and planning and calculation and deck building, and all about turns for f.cks sake... so that they will make an action mmo from it? Because action is the first word in anyone's mind when thinkin about MtG... riiight.
Why can't they learn from history? Every MtG games (which tried to be more than the deck building and the card matches) flopped, except the first one which was awesome (sure, since Meier was a genius designer), and that was an adventure / rpg game. NOT an actiony crap.
I was literally just stared at the screen with a WTF look when I saw the "action" part on the page...
While I agree with what most have to say about the negative aspect of f2p and drain-your-wallet-nevertheless - how is that any different than Blizzards Hearthstone (the only one I know, there are probably more). It's f2p, you can get very fund, yadda, yadda, oh look you can buy stuff.....
I'm on the fence with this... I really like Cryptic since CoH, and I had my fair share of MtG (several years), so this announcement should be an obvious for me... except two concerns.
First, the money. As others already said, MtG was the very first iteration of p2w, just as the lockbox mechanic (the boosters). Heck, when I stopped it was also about the money but at least at the end I could sell my collection (except a few cards I was attached for some reasons) and got some part of my money back.
When you have a duo like WotC (several decades of experience about skimming the players) paired with PWE (its entire existence is about honing and adjusting f2p and p2w mechanics), you can be sure the monetization will be top notch, highest-grade quality possible. Which also means "fly, you fools!" from the players' side. Unless you're a whale, of course.
Not to mention it is all digital, so after a close or cancel, it all goes poof. With cards, even if WotC crashes, you still can play, or sell, or anything. Maybe that's why I've spent less than $10 so far on digital card games (and I played mostly all of them during the years, just for the fun).
Speaking of which, there's already a MtG Online... oh, right. This will be an MMO and not simply an online Magic. Which leads to my other concern:
second, the gameplay. Ok, I'm now a bit more bitter on the subject with they've killed TSW for it, but speaking against pew-pew since years... who the f.ck at WotC or PWE decided that for a game which is all about strategy and planning and calculation and deck building, and all about turns for f.cks sake... so that they will make an action mmo from it? Because action is the first word in anyone's mind when thinkin about MtG... riiight.
Why can't they learn from history? Every MtG games (which tried to be more than the deck building and the card matches) flopped, except the first one which was awesome (sure, since Meier was a genius designer), and that was an adventure / rpg game. NOT an actiony crap.
I was literally just stared at the screen with a WTF look when I saw the "action" part on the page...
You're jumping to so many conclusions. The press release reads that it is set in the MTG multiverse, not that it will be a card game and in fact the RPG and "Action" part reads that it'll be as any other MMO.
You're jumping to so many conclusions. The press release reads that it is set in the MTG multiverse, not that it will be a card game and in fact the RPG and "Action" part reads that it'll be as any other MMO.
That's correct, maybe I rushed a bit ahead. Probably it will be just a regular action-MMO, within the MtG IP. I guess it would be a massive waste of the IP, but maybe I'm wrong.
So, according to you, a Warhammer 40k Action RPG shouldn't exist. Because 40k = Turn Based TT, hence "why the action crap".
Wait, they do exists? Just kidding, of course I've heard about those but yep, pretty much what you said. W40k is strategy for me (real strategy,
turn-based, not that mouseclick-fest rts crap). And without the 40k,
BloodBowl for example, same applies. At least for me. Tried one of the FPS games though... was pretty average.
But I'd
never say shouldn't. I'm all about options, and apparently people love
the clickety-click action crap (heck, or else blizz wouldn't even exists
). I'm just disappointed when companies do such moves. You
should've seen me when Marvel went down the diablo-clone route instead
of a real MMO. Heh, good times...
PWE/Cryptic,sadly this will be another heavy cash shop game.Also sadly is that even if done properly like a card+mmorpg should be done the cash shop alone will likely keep me away.I am still bummed out i spent money and supported hearthstone,i do not like the way these TCG's are over the top with cash shops.
So this team would have to change their ways and be FAIR instead of greedy but i highly doubt some execs are sitting there thinking fair,more so thinking how much would the top spenders spend,let's aim for that market.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
EDIT: AAA in combination with F2P points at a fairly aggressive cash shop.
F2p works fine in alot of games, but with collectible card games the cash shop is not a good format.....I've seen too many that "spend XXX and get a special rare card" type of mentality..... This clearly gives it a P2W flavor.
I'm imagining a game where you have a character that has a new type of slot. Alongside the regular ability slots (i.e. sundering strike / master strike in SWTOR for Guardian) you will also have burnable card slots. These slots will give you additional abilities in the game, but the only way to earn and use cards is to buy packs that have random abilities in them.
Additionally, the upper level content in the game will be near impossible without a steady stream of these cards, ensuring that money keeps rolling out of your wallet and into their bank account.
Maybe I should apply for that Bethesda/Zenimax job listing. I'm pretty good at this. Edit: I checked the job listing and it's in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore. Nah, I've seen The Wire. Fuuuuuck that place.
I wonder if their buisness model will be represented like the ccg. Forking out money to stay competitive when they release a new series..ect ect.
Played for years and just got tired of spending the money. Now I just break out MTG Duel Deck Anthology like you would a board game and do battle with my daughter.
Im personally hoping for a traditional style mmo with cards integrated in such a way that you're not forking out mad cash every other month.
As much as people want to say "PWE this" or "Cryptic that", it's all speculation until we get our grubby little hands on it. Let's try to stay positive. Even in a time without too much hope for the genre, all we can do is hope.
I'm imagining a game where you have a character that has a new type of slot. Alongside the regular ability slots (i.e. sundering strike / master strike in SWTOR for Guardian) you will also have burnable card slots. These slots will give you additional abilities in the game, but the only way to earn and use cards is to buy packs that have random abilities in them.
Additionally, the upper level content in the game will be near impossible without a steady stream of these cards, ensuring that money keeps rolling out of your wallet and into their bank account.
Maybe I should apply for that Bethesda/Zenimax job listing. I'm pretty good at this. Edit: I checked the job listing and it's in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore. Nah, I've seen The Wire. Fuuuuuck that place.
LOl you looked at the listing but didn't realize it was for a job in Montreal? Also LOL for thinking the area around Bethesda is anything like Baltimore. Just lol...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'm imagining a game where you have a character that has a new type of slot. Alongside the regular ability slots (i.e. sundering strike / master strike in SWTOR for Guardian) you will also have burnable card slots. These slots will give you additional abilities in the game, but the only way to earn and use cards is to buy packs that have random abilities in them.
Additionally, the upper level content in the game will be near impossible without a steady stream of these cards, ensuring that money keeps rolling out of your wallet and into their bank account.
Maybe I should apply for that Bethesda/Zenimax job listing. I'm pretty good at this. Edit: I checked the job listing and it's in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore. Nah, I've seen The Wire. Fuuuuuck that place.
LOl you looked at the listing but didn't realize it was for a job in Montreal? Also LOL for thinking the area around Bethesda is anything like Baltimore. Just lol...
As much as people want to say "PWE this" or "Cryptic that", it's all speculation until we get our grubby little hands on it. Let's try to stay positive. Even in a time without too much hope for the genre, all we can do is hope.
PLH
Well the positive is that i would love to play a game like this IF done well but the past and present tel us to expect nothing more than a shallow attempt with more effort going into the cash shop. There has been ZERO indication of anything other than but yeah if done well and a FAIR monetary system,i would be all over the game and love it. However the way the market has gone south and seeing not one single good quality FAIR developer out there,except maybe Square Enix to me is still FAIR,i expect i won't be playing ythe game,even though it is a game i would truly love.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
second, the gameplay. Ok, I'm now a bit more bitter on the subject with they've killed TSW for it, but speaking against pew-pew since years... who the f.ck at WotC or PWE decided that for a game which is all about strategy and planning and calculation and deck building, and all about turns for f.cks sake... so that they will make an action mmo from it? Because action is the first word in anyone's mind when thinkin about MtG... riiight.
Why can't they learn from history? Every MtG games (which tried to be more than the deck building and the card matches) flopped, except the first one which was awesome (sure, since Meier was a genius designer), and that was an adventure / rpg game. NOT an actiony crap.
I was literally just stared at the screen with a WTF look when I saw the "action" part on the page...
I suspect a lot of pets to be summoned alongside you. So most likely a heavily instanced game, or the servers would blow up with all those summons running around.
Also, the Cryptic that made CoH is long dead. Most of that dev team stuck around when Jack took off to make CO. And then Paragon Studios got sacked by NCSoft years later. A few of them did go to Cryptic after that, but... with their PWE overlords, never expect to see the likes of CoH again from them.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
This game will probably be just like their first open world game. Just with multi-player and better graphics. That old game was alot of fun.
But cryptic... Pass. Clearly they haven't done their homework or they can't be bothered to invest good money in it and want something fast and half good to make some bucks.
Either way for them is the real cards that are the cash grab, it has never been the computer games. They have always been a incentive to get people hook. A "Demo" product.
There is no "AAA" free to play game on the market by anyone, I think people have forgot what "AAA" mmo's are all about, there was some "AAA" that went free to play and to they are longer AAA, free to play is the biggest lie ever sold to gamers, I can't think of one free to play game if you want any kind of good gaming experience will end up costing you more than a sub, I have not played every game in the world but enough to know free to play stay away LOL
Comments
I hope it lives up to the amazing lore, monsters, and worlds that it has to draw from.. Its really a great IP and great for an MMO.. Just forget about the pay-for-cards/packs idea WotC, as spell accumulation works perfectly fine without that aspect..
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/First, the money. As others already said, MtG was the very first iteration of p2w, just as the lockbox mechanic (the boosters). Heck, when I stopped it was also about the money
When you have a duo like WotC (several decades of experience about skimming the players) paired with PWE (its entire existence is about honing and adjusting f2p and p2w mechanics), you can be sure the monetization will be top notch, highest-grade quality possible. Which also means "fly, you fools!" from the players' side. Unless you're a whale, of course.
Not to mention it is all digital, so after a close or cancel, it all goes poof. With cards, even if WotC crashes, you still can play, or sell, or anything. Maybe that's why I've spent less than $10 so far on digital card games (and I played mostly all of them during the years, just for the fun).
Speaking of which, there's already a MtG Online... oh, right. This will be an MMO and not simply an online Magic. Which leads to my other concern:
second, the gameplay. Ok, I'm now a bit more bitter on the subject with they've killed TSW for it, but speaking against pew-pew since years... who the f.ck at WotC or PWE decided that for a game which is all about strategy and planning and calculation and deck building, and all about turns for f.cks sake... so that they will make an action mmo from it? Because action is the first word in anyone's mind when thinkin about MtG... riiight.
Why can't they learn from history? Every MtG games (which tried to be more than the deck building and the card matches) flopped, except the first one which was awesome (sure, since Meier was a genius designer), and that was an adventure / rpg game. NOT an actiony crap.
I was literally just stared at the screen with a WTF look when I saw the "action" part on the page...
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
--------------------------------------------
Youtube newb:
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Wait, they do exists?
Just kidding, of course I've heard about those but yep, pretty much what you said. W40k is strategy for me (real strategy, turn-based, not that mouseclick-fest rts crap). And without the 40k, BloodBowl for example, same applies. At least for me. Tried one of the FPS games though... was pretty average.
But I'd never say shouldn't. I'm all about options, and apparently people love the clickety-click action crap (heck, or else blizz wouldn't even exists
I'm just disappointed when companies do such moves. You should've seen me when Marvel went down the diablo-clone route instead of a real MMO. Heh, good times...
So this team would have to change their ways and be FAIR instead of greedy but i highly doubt some execs are sitting there thinking fair,more so thinking how much would the top spenders spend,let's aim for that market.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
will be crap. im calling it before it releases !! in fact all f2p games are trash
f2p are the reason mmorpg are trash now
now they releases them right into f2p because they make so much more money lol
who want 14$ months ?? not them
Additionally, the upper level content in the game will be near impossible without a steady stream of these cards, ensuring that money keeps rolling out of your wallet and into their bank account.
Maybe I should apply for that Bethesda/Zenimax job listing. I'm pretty good at this. Edit: I checked the job listing and it's in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore. Nah, I've seen The Wire. Fuuuuuck that place.
Played for years and just got tired of spending the money. Now I just break out MTG Duel Deck Anthology like you would a board game and do battle with my daughter.
Im personally hoping for a traditional style mmo with cards integrated in such a way that you're not forking out mad cash every other month.
PLH
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There has been ZERO indication of anything other than but yeah if done well and a FAIR monetary system,i would be all over the game and love it.
However the way the market has gone south and seeing not one single good quality FAIR developer out there,except maybe Square Enix to me is still FAIR,i expect i won't be playing ythe game,even though it is a game i would truly love.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Also, the Cryptic that made CoH is long dead. Most of that dev team stuck around when Jack took off to make CO. And then Paragon Studios got sacked by NCSoft years later. A few of them did go to Cryptic after that, but... with their PWE overlords, never expect to see the likes of CoH again from them.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
But cryptic... Pass. Clearly they haven't done their homework or they can't be bothered to invest good money in it and want something fast and half good to make some bucks.
Either way for them is the real cards that are the cash grab, it has never been the computer games. They have always been a incentive to get people hook. A "Demo" product.