The Nine Voices Of The Star Citizen Debate.

Kefo · August 2017

Kyleran said:

What would really be interesting is to compare how people rate themselves vs how others on the forum perceive them.

I've seen folks placing themselves far closer to the middle ground than I would agree with, perhaps the same is true for me as well.

Oh I'm a pleasant mix of troll, hater and skeptic.

MaxBacon · August 2017

Kefo said:
and of course you're going to have nicer discussions with other backers and there won't be trolling or baiting, did you just forget what you wrote about people and their bias?

No no, not the bias driven, talk about from all the sorts of controversy and drama that surrounds the project, that is indeed only possible within more private discussions that the, as I said, trolling, baiting, posting agendas, aggressivity and similar stuff that we find anywhere in the public discussion places render impossible to discuss in a balanced matter (what goes both ways).

So it's just what it is.

Tiamat64 · August 2017

Yea, there doesn't seem to be much middle ground between Doubtful and the Dark Zone (which would be that "pleasant mix of troll, hater, and skeptic"). There really needs to be an extra category similar to Doubtful but more akin to "Doubts the project will succeed as sold, but allow the possibility it might on somewhat terrible terms." instead of "modest terms".

You'd think the "Sincere" section of Dark Space would be the perfect spot for such a thing but instead what's there is something that's more off to the side ("Former disgruntled proponents", which is something that really shouldn't be on what appears to be a sliding scale, as it implies only former disgruntled proponents can be in the sincere end of the dark zone)

Kefo · August 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
and of course you're going to have nicer discussions with other backers and there won't be trolling or baiting, did you just forget what you wrote about people and their bias?

No no, not the bias driven, talk about from all the sorts of controversy and drama that surrounds the project, that is indeed only possible within more private discussions that the, as I said, trolling, baiting, posting agendas, aggressivity and similar stuff that we find anywhere in the public discussion places render impossible to discuss in a balanced matter (what goes both ways).

So it's just what it is.

Again why would there be bias driven talk and controversy when you are surrounding yourself with people who think the same as you? First you talk about bias and now you are talking about going into a forums where it's all fans and saying that's normal discussion when in fact it's just bias in the other direction.

MaxBacon · August 2017

Kefo said:
Again why would there be bias driven talk and controversy when you are surrounding yourself with people who think the same as you? First you talk about bias and now you are talking about going into a forums where it's all fans and saying that's normal discussion when in fact it's just bias in the other direction.

You don't get it. What drives the balance out of the discussion is the trolling, baiting, aggressivity, posting agendas, sensationalism, and so forth. When a discussion happens free of those things, without extremes, then there is way more openness on a discussion that fluctuates both ways. That's why it's not possible to achieve that in places as this. You can find this exact thing I'm talking about in some podcasts between SC streamers/fans where the discussion fluctuates and can get very critic of CIG in some topics.

Wraithone · August 2017

All the vile denizens of Dark Space, shall burn in the Eternal Light of RSI !!

sgel · August 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Again why would there be bias driven talk and controversy when you are surrounding yourself with people who think the same as you? First you talk about bias and now you are talking about going into a forums where it's all fans and saying that's normal discussion when in fact it's just bias in the other direction.

You don't get it. What drives the balance out of the discussion is the trolling, baiting, aggressivity, posting agendas, sensationalism, and so forth.

But you are the one accusing people who disagree with you of all these things.
You're so easy to label someone negatively just because they refuse to be as positive as you.
Look how many labels you have for all those dirty criticizers who refuse to see Chris Roberts' brilliance

Kefo · August 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Again why would there be bias driven talk and controversy when you are surrounding yourself with people who think the same as you? First you talk about bias and now you are talking about going into a forums where it's all fans and saying that's normal discussion when in fact it's just bias in the other direction.

You don't get it. What drives the balance out of the discussion is the trolling, baiting, aggressivity, posting agendas, sensationalism, and so forth. When a discussion happens free of those things, without extremes, then there is way more openness on a discussion that fluctuates both ways. That's why it's not possible to achieve that in places as this. You can find this exact thing I'm talking about in some podcasts between SC streamers/fans where the discussion fluctuates and can get very critic of CIG in some topics.

I don't see it that way. If for example you love chocolate and you surround yourself with other chocolate lovers chances are there isn't going to be much debate that isn't one sided about how awesome chocolate is or maybe some theory crafting about how awesome chocolate would be with salt. You need to get away from the places that are either all pro or all negative if you really want to have worthwhile discussions

Kefo · August 2017

Wraithone said:

All the vile denizens of Dark Space, shall burn in the Eternal Light of RSI !!

All for the low low price of 999.99

rpmcmurphy · August 2017

MaxBacon said:

Kefo said:
Again why would there be bias driven talk and controversy when you are surrounding yourself with people who think the same as you? First you talk about bias and now you are talking about going into a forums where it's all fans and saying that's normal discussion when in fact it's just bias in the other direction.

You don't get it. What drives the balance out of the discussion is the trolling, baiting, aggressivity, posting agendas, sensationalism, and so forth. When a discussion happens free of those things, without extremes, then there is way more openness on a discussion that fluctuates both ways. That's why it's not possible to achieve that in places as this. You can find this exact thing I'm talking about in some podcasts between SC streamers/fans where the discussion fluctuates and can get very critic of CIG in some topics.

I disagree with this. I can see why you might think it but what you view as normal posting another person will view as propaganda.

Star Citizen fans are notorious for making huge posts with loads and loads of screenshots/videos/gifs, crowing about the graphics, how brilliant the project is, how brilliant the game play will be, how it is the game to end all games, how it beats lots of other AAA games even in a pre-alpha state etc.

People take offence at that sort of baiting, that sort of sensationalism and aggressiveness, the dismissal of other games, the propaganda, celebrating a company receiving $150 million, $151 million, $152 million and so on.

It's all perspective, isn't it.

Vikingir · August 2017

rpmcmurphy said:

He already said he wouldn't mention it again and yet you are forcing him to talk about it. Where's the logic in that?

I replied to his messages about this. There's logic in that.
Of my postsin this thread, the first one I answered OP's question, one was a reply to @Arglebargle and the rest are replies to him.

BeansnBread said:

Strangely, he also thinks it's an issue of law. And embarrassingly enough, he also has the law wrong.

No, that wasn't me. Never said that.

BeansnBread said:

I think Max keeps talking about how people are trying to humiliate him, but dude... $18,000+? There is a certain level of humiliation that should take place in my opinion.

Many think that, while others call it supporting the game with pledges in a crowdfunding campaign. If you're of an opposite opinion it doesn't make it allright to try and ridicule your opponent by flaming with slander in ill content.

MaxBacon · August 2017

Kefo said:
I don't see it that way. If for example you love chocolate and you surround yourself with other chocolate lovers chances are there isn't going to be much debate that isn't one sided about how awesome chocolate is or maybe some theory crafting about how awesome chocolate would be with salt. You need to get away from the places that are either all pro or all negative if you really want to have worthwhile discussions

I don't agree with you, the discussions I have with backers that I know and in my org focus talk on issues and controversy, not as you're painting it, a group of people saying how amazing and great will the chocolate be, not at all hahaha

rpmcmurphy said:
Star Citizen fans are notorious for making huge posts with loads and loads of screenshots/videos/gifs, crowing about the graphics, how brilliant the project is, how brilliant the game play will be, how it is the game to end all games, how it beats lots of other AAA games even in a pre-alpha state etc.

I disagree with you because selectively pick extreme examples that are seriously stood by fractions of a community that by itself is a fraction of the entirety of the backers of this game, the so-called silent majority, does not really make a good point. If you check this new thread it shows most with reasonable expectations for the game, so is mine, that's why I'm pointing out the nitpicking.

sgel · August 2017

Vikingir said:

Many think that, while others call it supporting the game with pledges in a crowdfunding campaign. If you're of an opposite opinion it doesn't make it allright to try and ridicule your opponent by flaming with slander in ill content.

It's whales like yourself who give CIG the excuse they need to sell in-game content and future concept ships.
As a result, and rightfully so, there's players who don't like that and you get the appropriate reaction from them.

You might think it's as simple as "supporting the game" but it isn't.
People like you are the reason we see ridiculous cash grabs in our favourite hobby.

What is simple and completely logical, is your zealous defense of your multi-thousand investment.

Talonsin · August 2017

Erillion said:

"Believer"

Have fun

When have you ever questioned a decision that CIG made? Are you sure you dont see yourself fitting more into the zealot category? I think you need to re-read the descriptions because you and I in the same category just does not feel right.

Talonsin · August 2017

MaxBacon said:

sgel said:
Nice try MaxLexandre.
You make like 7000 posts on SC each year?
If you don't fit in the zealot category I don't know who will.

Personally I'm in the skeptic category while sometimes dipping my feet in the agnostic pool.
Would love to see this succeed but Croberts and the SC community are often so obnoxious.

As we're in a wave of making judgments on each other, for me you make it plain into the hater category, you only post and actively seek to criticize the game, nothing else and I have never seen you leaving such one sided stand. But hey, each to their own.

Pot, meet kettle

MaxBacon · August 2017

Talonsin said:
Pot, meet kettle

Sure, any more insults? Please send them all at once so we can get this over with sooner rather than dragging the discussion over several pages.

Vikingir · August 2017

sgel said:

It's whales like yourself who give CIG the excuse they need to sell in-game content and future concept ships.
As a result, and rightfully so, there's players who don't like that and you get the appropriate reaction from them.

You might think it's as simple as "supporting the game" but it isn't.
People like you are the reason we see ridiculous cash grabs in our favourite hobby.

What is simple and completely logical, is your zealous defense of your multi-thousand investment.

Now you're attacking me, with namecalling. I don't appreciate being called either "whale" or "zealot".

The other things you say about how you see crowdfunding are your subjective opinions, which is your perogative, but keep namecalling out of it. Go for the ball, not the man.

sgel · August 2017

MaxBacon said:

Talonsin said:
Pot, meet kettle

Sure, any more insults? Please send them all at once so we can get this over with sooner rather than dragging the discussion over several pages.

rofl.. it's not an insult. It's an expression

Vikingir · August 2017

It's not good netiquette to use namecalling in forum discussions.

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The Nine Voices Of The Star Citizen Debate.

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