Yes, totally agreed, Geezer. Failed for a myriad of complex reasons, but they still leave behind a good legacy in the form of a game that still has a chance to succeed.
I actually didn't pay very close attention to this at first, but apparently they were bought out by the Hero Engine people? My thinking is that they probably NEED this game to be released. I tried out Hero Engine almost a decade ago now and remembered seeing The Repop as a game in their "Featured" list. To have The Repop fail would be devastating to Hero Engine, I think. It would effectively cement them as a useless engine. So I think it's advantageous for them to help get it done and overcome the technical issues.
I actually didn't pay very close attention to this at first, but apparently they were bought out by the Hero Engine people? My thinking is that they probably NEED this game to be released. I tried out Hero Engine almost a decade ago now and remembered seeing The Repop as a game in their "Featured" list. To have The Repop fail would be devastating to Hero Engine, I think. It would effectively cement them as a useless engine. So I think it's advantageous for them to help get it done and overcome the technical issues.
Yes, the IP for TR was purchased by IF from ABT (bang, acronyms ftw).
HE did evolved quite a bit over the year and should be soon going dx11 as well. It was delayed for multiple reasons, some of them involving 3rd parties. One of the catch-22s of MMO engine development is that a game dev cycle can easily take 3-4 years until release, so there could be several games in the development pipeline right now.
I actually didn't pay very close attention to this at first, but apparently they were bought out by the Hero Engine people? My thinking is that they probably NEED this game to be released. I tried out Hero Engine almost a decade ago now and remembered seeing The Repop as a game in their "Featured" list. To have The Repop fail would be devastating to Hero Engine, I think. It would effectively cement them as a useless engine. So I think it's advantageous for them to help get it done and overcome the technical issues.
Yes, the IP for TR was purchased by IF from ABT (bang, acronyms ftw).
HE did evolved quite a bit over the year and should be soon going dx11 as well. It was delayed for multiple reasons, some of them involving 3rd parties. One of the catch-22s of MMO engine development is that a game dev cycle can easily take 3-4 years until release, so there could be several games in the development pipeline right now.
At this point hero engine is effectively defunct, regardless of what happens with Repop, if you want a list of games that use it, then Wikipedia has you covered, its both sad and amusing that the only real game of any consequence in the list, SW:TOR had to modify the engine beyond all recognition, and still has problems with scaling, its probably why despite everything, SW:TOR works better as a single player game, than as an MMO, the whole Ilum debacle may be in the past, but it never went away, the limitations are still there.
First of all, this was in development for years until they discovered that they had severe issues with the engine. So they decided to move over to Unreal in order to get around this. Fragmented was developed during this transition to the new engine, likely as a means of familiarizing all devs to it. However, it wasn't until AFTER Fragmented as already on Steam that they ended up selling The Repop intellectual property. They aren't lining their pockets with gold, they were tapped, right out of money. There was zero chance this was being finished unless they sold the IP to someone else. Could even be that developer will honor your original package.
I don't believe that's quite right. They decided to switch engines as they were unsure off the future of the Hero engine, there was some talk about licencing fees as well. Fragmented was made to generate more funds while they converted assets over from Hero to Unreal, as most of the work would be usable in the Unreal version of The Repop. So the work they were doing on Fragmented was ALSO work on The Repop for the most part. For the team size and the amount of money they had they did manage to make a prety impressive game, if you look at the scope of their systems. Name another MMORPG where you can stop drop and roll!
They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.
Fragmented was or is still alive? I tried that game a year ago cause I saw they were giving it out for free with The Repopulation. I saw 0 slots active on so many servers (I actually remember every server being empty when I tried it) and I lagged for about 5 long minutes before giving up entirely.
Sucks what happened to The Repopulation team if the whole "They ran out of money" thing is the case. I barely even remembered this game existed till a few days ago when somebody told me they reopened the servers.
It's a damn shame too. So many developers with big dreams and small realities now-a-days.
Breaks my damn (wallet) heart. Or it used to, rather.
They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.
This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.
They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for. The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds. The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people. The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work. Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.
But thats the nature of this beast. It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO. With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases. However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money. Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it. That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.
Wait if both you and I, plus almost everyone else know it takes a ton of money to make a full featured MMO isn't it dishonest to promise to deliver one on a shoestring budget?
Taking peoples money when you know it can't be done does seem to be a bit of a scam, especially when you repurpose the assets to deliver another type of game entirely.
...
By your logic, all crowdfunded games are inherently dishonest (except maybe SC !), because NONE of those KS campaigns raise anywhere near the amount of money required that "we know" is needed for a full-featured MMO.
It's not "dishonest" if the team making the promises actually believe they can do the impossible. Foolish dreamers, yeah, but not dishonest.
In the case of Repop, a playable alpha was produced, I played it. Buggy as hell, and showing some significant Hero Engine issues. The Hero Engine devs kept promising a miracle patch that would make everything better... until the Hero Engine devs temporarily ran out of money and shut down operations !
The Hero Engine shutdown in November 2015 cut off Repop's meagre cash flow from game sales, because IdeaFabrik refused to handle any new account registrations. They said that the freeze would be "indefinite" until they could source new funding for their company.
That's when the decision was made to switch to a more viable engine. Developing an indie game on an engine developed by an apparently equally "indie" team is a shaky proposition at best...
kick start a game and trust the devolpers team.. in order to make a SWG based mmorpg
the company sells the whole the game and ip to third party.
Orginal developers use my money to make a new game called fragmented.. which i did not support.
they ran away from the repop will full pockets??
common man is this shit even legal?
Yes look at Star Citizen and look at CHARITY laws/licenses.Look no further than terms like "donation" "pledge".
It is sickening to see how law often works to protect the criminal,especially the big rich criminal but is so quick to step on the little guy.
There is so little law protecting the naive and consumers but tons of law obviously created by big business to protect big business.
I doubt hardly anyone realizes that yes even these so called Kick starters are open to lawsuits even while using terms like donations or pledges.It is called FRAUD and misappropriation of funds.Misleading people to the true intention and destination of funds.
It is amazing how one can call their business non profit yet pay themselves and anyone else like family hefty salaries.In essence fill their bank accounts with loads of money while claiming no profits are made.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It is sickening to see how law often works to protect the criminal,especially the big rich criminal but is so quick to step on the little guy.
There is so little law protecting the naive and consumers but tons of law obviously created by big business to protect big business.
I doubt hardly anyone realizes that yes even these so called Kick starters are open to lawsuits even while using terms like donations or pledges.It is called FRAUD and misappropriation of funds.Misleading people to the true intention and destination of funds.
It is amazing how one can call their business non profit yet pay themselves and anyone else like family hefty salaries.In essence fill their bank accounts with loads of money while claiming no profits are made.
What you describe here has nothing specifically to do with crowdfunding. Fraud is fraud, and done under the guise of charity has nothing to do with KS or MMOs or whatnot.
Also, I don't think you've got that coined alright when you "doubt hardly anyone realizes that yes even these so called Kick starters are open to lawsuits", the internet is rife of sulking backers crying "lawsuit", heh.
They scammed the supporters. Fragmanted is just another scam and they will not complete it as well.
This was far from a scam, a highly overused term in MMO's these days it seems.
They managed to produce a working alpha version of the game which I too paid money for. The problem here, is that unfortunately , while a SWG clone type of game sounds good on paper, making one which is actually fun to play, is a lot more difficult than it sounds. The game had issues with design, gameplay and graphics as well according to some people. The devs were always open and communicative about the game and did their best IMO to make it work. Sadly I think the alpha got raked over the coals by a lot of the community, and the devs had to make the decision to continue with what would most likely be a failed MMO , or cut their their losses and move on.
But thats the nature of this beast. It takes shitloads of money and man hours to create a good MMO. With crowdfunding and low budgets the chances of success are slim to none in most cases. However thats the risk you take by ponying up your money. Next time you see a project you like, just don't support it. That way you won't have to come back to the forums whining about how you lost money.
Wait if both you and I, plus almost everyone else know it takes a ton of money to make a full featured MMO isn't it dishonest to promise to deliver one on a shoestring budget?
Taking peoples money when you know it can't be done does seem to be a bit of a scam, especially when you repurpose the assets to deliver another type of game entirely.
...
By your logic, all crowdfunded games are inherently dishonest (except maybe SC !), because NONE of those KS campaigns raise anywhere near the amount of money required that "we know" is needed for a full-featured MMO.
It's not "dishonest" if the team making the promises actually believe they can do the impossible. Foolish dreamers, yeah, but not dishonest.
In the case of Repop, a playable alpha was produced, I played it. Buggy as hell, and showing some significant Hero Engine issues. The Hero Engine devs kept promising a miracle patch that would make everything better... until the Hero Engine devs temporarily ran out of money and shut down operations !
The Hero Engine shutdown in November 2015 cut off Repop's meagre cash flow from game sales, because IdeaFabrik refused to handle any new account registrations. They said that the freeze would be "indefinite" until they could source new funding for their company.
That's when the decision was made to switch to a more viable engine. Developing an indie game on an engine developed by an apparently equally "indie" team is a shaky proposition at best...
Actually that is my logic, and I do believe almost all crowd funded games are not likely to deliver as they haven't got a solid plan to properly fund the game's completion.
Might not be a scam, but definitely shows a huge lack of business sense which isn't a great quality for a company t
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Kickstarter and most crowd funders in genera should probably ban MMO projects from there. MMOs just aren't feasible to make with crowd funded money considering their huge costs.
Kickstarter and most crowd funders in genera should probably ban MMO projects from there. MMOs just aren't feasible to make with crowd funded money considering their huge costs.
Mass popularity of crowdfunding is about 5 years old and it takes about 5 years for even a larger corporation to make an AAA MMO. We haven't yet seen the best that crowdfunding can deliver in terms of MMOs.
There's nothing to say either that crowdfunding has to be the only source of revenue on your MMO project, like several recent MMOs going to KS have shown.
KS to me seems like nothing more than a scam to get easy money. They need to make KS more secure and give power to the people that give than the company making it. Just way to many opportunities to steal cash than creating a game.
“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
―
George Carlin
Devs still post. Latest update. That's about how many people I see when I login.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I'm saying this game is definitely still in pre-alpha state. But they are working on it.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The statistical likelihood that overzealous and inexperienced developers are just in general fuck ups at planning is higher then them being masterminds of deception.
Although it is possible its a scam but it doesn't have the telltale signs of one like excessive marketing because I can assure you, the very first thing a mastermind of deception is going to do is start talking to marketing firms before they write a single line of code
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm saying this game is definitely still in pre-alpha state. But they are working on it.
I still have high hopes for this game. It's actually the game I put the most money into, so it's a little bitter sweet if it turns out to be the first game that never actually delivers.
I don't think their intent was to run away with money. Otherwise we'd have had this very discussion years ago. No, I think they tried. Tried and failed, but still tried.
What masses dont realize is internally game companies try and fail projects all the time.
The game that get developed to launch are about 1 out of 20 internal ideas that make it.
What early access and KS expose to public is how often game projects fail, which has always been the case, but never seen by the public as internal failed projects are seldom discussed.
Is failing and abandoned truly synonymous?
Your point is valid, but technically in business terms failing means a completed project that didn't take well and cost more than what was sold.
Anyone else remember getting paid to alpha and beta test? What happened to those days.
I don't think their intent was to run away with money. Otherwise we'd have had this very discussion years ago. No, I think they tried. Tried and failed, but still tried.
What masses dont realize is internally game companies try and fail projects all the time.
The game that get developed to launch are about 1 out of 20 internal ideas that make it.
What early access and KS expose to public is how often game projects fail, which has always been the case, but never seen by the public as internal failed projects are seldom discussed.
Is failing and abandoned truly synonymous?
Your point is valid, but technically in business terms failing means a completed project that didn't take well and cost more than what was sold.
Anyone else remember getting paid to alpha and beta test? What happened to those days.
Meh.... Yeah, they could be considered to be synonymous. Terminology is a fickle bitch because it can mean different things to different people depending on the organization you worked at. I actually use it in interviews all the time. I'll ask about nebulous industry terminology and depending on their answer I have an idea of what they've worked in before. It's actually a marvelous strategy.
For instance, abandoned could simply be used as a PC term to not hurt devs feels. However, in reality, an abandoned project means it failed to meet some measure. I'm sorry, but anything that gets past the idea stage, anything where there has been resources invested in writing code, is a failure if it doesn't release. Some might say Titan was abandoned, but the reason it was abandoned was that it wasn't fun. Like fuck me! If you make it years into development of a project only to find it's not really that fun? If that's not a failure, I don't know what is.
I do remember paid alpha and beta. Do you remember the profile of the people participating in those types of testing? Effectively, what happened to those days is that technology made paid alpha and beta programs more costly to run than simply bringing on more in-house QA staff. Too much licensing, custom tools, training, etc., etc. Also, let's face it, the knowledge gap between 99% of alpha/beta testers these days and even the bottom 5% of paid alpha/beta testers in "the day" is MASSIVE! Basically, alpha/beta testers these days know about as much about game development, the game/software development process, and the tech behind the games as I do about quantum physics.
SO! The question about "what happened to those days" is multi-faceted.
1) huge tech gap 2) 99% of testers are about as valuable as an empty desk chair. 3) the alpha black market became too big for companies to ignore/take advantage of
Comments
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
HE did evolved quite a bit over the year and should be soon going dx11 as well. It was delayed for multiple reasons, some of them involving 3rd parties. One of the catch-22s of MMO engine development is that a game dev cycle can easily take 3-4 years until release, so there could be several games in the development pipeline right now.
Some of these games are advertised on their website : https://www.heroenginegames.com/
Sucks what happened to The Repopulation team if the whole "They ran out of money" thing is the case. I barely even remembered this game existed till a few days ago when somebody told me they reopened the servers.
It's a damn shame too. So many developers with big dreams and small realities now-a-days.
Breaks my damn (wallet) heart. Or it used to, rather.
By your logic, all crowdfunded games are inherently dishonest (except maybe SC !), because NONE of those KS campaigns raise anywhere near the amount of money required that "we know" is needed for a full-featured MMO.
It's not "dishonest" if the team making the promises actually believe they can do the impossible. Foolish dreamers, yeah, but not dishonest.
In the case of Repop, a playable alpha was produced, I played it. Buggy as hell, and showing some significant Hero Engine issues. The Hero Engine devs kept promising a miracle patch that would make everything better... until the Hero Engine devs temporarily ran out of money and shut down operations !
The Hero Engine shutdown in November 2015 cut off Repop's meagre cash flow from game sales, because IdeaFabrik refused to handle any new account registrations. They said that the freeze would be "indefinite" until they could source new funding for their company.
That's when the decision was made to switch to a more viable engine. Developing an indie game on an engine developed by an apparently equally "indie" team is a shaky proposition at best...
It is sickening to see how law often works to protect the criminal,especially the big rich criminal but is so quick to step on the little guy.
There is so little law protecting the naive and consumers but tons of law obviously created by big business to protect big business.
I doubt hardly anyone realizes that yes even these so called Kick starters are open to lawsuits even while using terms like donations or pledges.It is called FRAUD and misappropriation of funds.Misleading people to the true intention and destination of funds.
It is amazing how one can call their business non profit yet pay themselves and anyone else like family hefty salaries.In essence fill their bank accounts with loads of money while claiming no profits are made.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Also, I don't think you've got that coined alright when you "doubt hardly anyone realizes that yes even these so called Kick starters are open to lawsuits", the internet is rife of sulking backers crying "lawsuit", heh.
This have been a good conversation
Might not be a scam, but definitely shows a huge lack of business sense which isn't a great quality for a company t
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Mass popularity of crowdfunding is about 5 years old and it takes about 5 years for even a larger corporation to make an AAA MMO. We haven't yet seen the best that crowdfunding can deliver in terms of MMOs.
There's nothing to say either that crowdfunding has to be the only source of revenue on your MMO project, like several recent MMOs going to KS have shown.
― George Carlin
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Soooooo, you're sayin' I could be mayor!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Although it is possible its a scam but it doesn't have the telltale signs of one like excessive marketing because I can assure you, the very first thing a mastermind of deception is going to do is start talking to marketing firms before they write a single line of code
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
uhh forget it, it' s only me
Your point is valid, but technically in business terms failing means a completed project that didn't take well and cost more than what was sold.
Anyone else remember getting paid to alpha and beta test? What happened to those days.
Meh.... Yeah, they could be considered to be synonymous. Terminology is a fickle bitch because it can mean different things to different people depending on the organization you worked at. I actually use it in interviews all the time. I'll ask about nebulous industry terminology and depending on their answer I have an idea of what they've worked in before. It's actually a marvelous strategy.
For instance, abandoned could simply be used as a PC term to not hurt devs feels. However, in reality, an abandoned project means it failed to meet some measure. I'm sorry, but anything that gets past the idea stage, anything where there has been resources invested in writing code, is a failure if it doesn't release. Some might say Titan was abandoned, but the reason it was abandoned was that it wasn't fun. Like fuck me! If you make it years into development of a project only to find it's not really that fun? If that's not a failure, I don't know what is.
I do remember paid alpha and beta. Do you remember the profile of the people participating in those types of testing? Effectively, what happened to those days is that technology made paid alpha and beta programs more costly to run than simply bringing on more in-house QA staff. Too much licensing, custom tools, training, etc., etc. Also, let's face it, the knowledge gap between 99% of alpha/beta testers these days and even the bottom 5% of paid alpha/beta testers in "the day" is MASSIVE! Basically, alpha/beta testers these days know about as much about game development, the game/software development process, and the tech behind the games as I do about quantum physics.
SO! The question about "what happened to those days" is multi-faceted.
1) huge tech gap
2) 99% of testers are about as valuable as an empty desk chair.
3) the alpha black market became too big for companies to ignore/take advantage of
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------