automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.
Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?
No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.
And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.
But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.
What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.
It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
That's a flawed analogy, because unless the player is literally searching for the high-level ganking them, their intention is to play the game's content. It's being interrupted by an asshole, but that doesn't mean they're looking for it.
If the griefer repeatedly engages a player who's defenseless, they're deliberately engaging in a behavior to prevent that player from enjoying game content without a real chance to defend themselves and with no reward to the griefer aside from knowing he's preventing someone else from enjoying the game. It was their intent to grief, not the other player's intent to be griefed.
Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Again, over simplification and a nonsensical comparison. You can say the same thing over and over until you are blue in the face, but it does not make it right nor accurate.
You have several explanations as to why this is an asinine comparison, you refuse to understand them.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.
Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?
No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.
And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.
But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.
What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.
It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
Most people are not roleplaying in an MMO they are just playing the game being who they are. The things they choose to say in chat, how they choose to play the game are as much reflections of who they are as how they drive their car, how they shop, how they relate to others in social situations.
In a way it IS all acting but that's a philosophical detail that is neither here nor there. What we think of them is all based on how they act when we see them acting.
It ain't much of a stretch to see someone behaving like an asshat in a game or even here in the forums and form an opinion about what sort of person they are.
Take Gdemami for instance, his behavior in the forums makes me think that he has a massive superiority complex which is usually a sign of small stature or at least smallness of select crucial body parts. I could be wrong but that's the impression I have.
Same with habitual griefers. Absent any evidence to the contrary I think they are asshats in all parts of their life.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.
Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?
No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.
And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.
But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.
What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.
It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
Most people are not roleplaying in an MMO they are just playing the game being who they are. The things they choose to say in chat, how they choose to play the game are as much reflections of who they are as how they drive their car, how they shop, how they relate to others in social situations.
In a way it IS all acting but that's a philosophical detail that is neither here nor there. What we think of them is all based on how they act when we see them acting.
It ain't much of a stretch to see someone behaving like an asshat in a game or even here in the forums and form an opinion about what sort of person they are.
Take Gdemami for instance, his behavior in the forums makes me think that he has a massive superiority complex which is usually a sign of small stature or at least smallness of select crucial body parts. I could be wrong but that's the impression I have.
Same with habitual griefers. Absent any evidence to the contrary I think they are asshats in all parts of their life.
I don't think we're given enough information about a person griefing to make any judgement. It's just all in our head.
I agree it's being a jerk in-game. But there's no evidence to believe same atritude goes on in real life as well.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.
Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?
No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.
And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.
But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
As you noted, people in both groups generally can't admit to themselves what they are so they fabricate all sorts of validations to excuse their bad behaviors.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is the game where someone can spend 1 or more years inside a corp, making friends and allies and pirating with them, then sabotage them within with no regard of the friendships made in that year (or longer if going for the "ultimate" sabotage).
The problem with this statement is that there are people who think hanging out with someone in a game who they have never met face-to-face, regardless of how long, qualifies as a friendship. I guess we can thank Facebook for that.
It has, "I'm gullible, fuck me over" written all over it.
I really have have no sympathy for people who get fucked over by someone they only know online. Might as well just paint a target on your forehead.
Is it griefing when someone dominates the Monopoly board? No. Is it griefing when you lose at checkers? No.
Griefing is a myth. Its winning or losing. Grow a pair.
That is an over simplification of the topic. Yes, in PvP there is usually a winner and a loser and most people that play PvP games are aware of this and can take a beating without batting an eye.
While this topic is highly subjective, I think people can agree that there is a difference, if not in mechanics at least in the spirit of PvP vs Griefing.
Your final line "grow a pair' is awesome. I wonder how you would take it if Conor McGregor decided to beat the shit out of you every time you stepped out your front door. Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise, you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off you. However, if the cops won't come, what then, sit there looking out the window wishing you could go get a cupcake? Hoping this beast gets bored and leaves? Yeah, nope, the door opens you get a beating and back to the window with you.
Same concept here, some people can take a PvP loss, but when it comes to corpse camping or other shenanigans that keep you from being able to even play the game, it's just grief. Some games are designed with this in mind and they make it pretty well known before you log in. Especially in the case of Eve...if you do not realize that it's going to happen then that is your issue.
Anyway, it's not as simple as grow a pair, nor is it anything like a board game, that is an asinine comparison.
Well your comparison isnt much better , Actually silly , to compare real life to game first ..
Second if CM was to attempt that (or anyone for that matter ) some of the recourse i can take , first would be opening the door and letting my 2 140+ lb Rhodesian Ridgebacks tear him a new asshole , if that didnt work(which is laughable) i could shoot him ...just for ex..
You actually helped the poster you are answering to, most likely accidentally.
In real life you have weapons (dogs, guns, the police) that don't require to be higher than a level to own. That's why even a kid can shoot and kill a veteran martial artist.
In a game, a newbie is defenseless against high level griefers. If he has tamed a dog, the dog is also low level and will also be one shot. If he owns a weapon, it will do no damage to the high level char.
Thanks for proving his point. Yes, his example of the martial arts champion camping your house is valid.
umm thats not what he said there .. read it again.. In his example he says ..
" Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise,
you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off
you". ..
In a game you cant do anyhting about it .in his example there is lots you can do
One other consideration is what exactly is griefing?
To some players anytime they are unexpectedly killed they consider it griefing.
Others call it griefing if they were out leveled, or out numbered so they had no chance to fight back.
Sometimes the qualifier is repetitive killing of players, and sometimes exploits have to be involved.
First we need to understand what griefing really is before calling out various titles as supporting griefing or not.
I would call getting killed unexpectedly being ganked, and being ganked repeatedly to the point of preventing someone from completing content with little to no chance of them successfully defending themselves as griefing.
I have a similar definition. Griefing is akin to harassment actually. Those who do that aren't PvPers in my book, they are assholes.
In My opinion Ultima Online...Thats why Trammel came out becuase of all the Butthurt people wanting to get rid of PKers....LOL....Just my opinion...LOL
Shadowbane had epic griefing - especially when players started using exploits to teleport other players off the map and grief them mercilessly.
It really was next level griefing.
Nothing worse than defending your castle from an invasion, and then poof, you're in the middle of the ocean. There was a guild on Mourning that was rather adept at doing it. Can't remember the name of the guild, but it was Undead something (or had something to do with that name).
In all seriousness though, the game doesn't promote griefing. The anonymity of the internet promotes it.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
If I wanted to make a game that had the highest griefing possible...
I would start by making a game P2W and having equipment upgrades and junk in the cash shop (not just in the world), and I would have a small resource map where one guild controls it to the point that people will do anything to join that guild in order to mine/farm that map.
I would also make the classes in a way that late-game (or the more money spent) really makes the power of the class come out.
If only there was a game like that? Oh wait, there are many games like this already in the present day. :P
So many, that Westerners see the tag "F2P" on a game, and avoid it like the plague due to the horror stories of the past. :P
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
Games are entertaining product. Why it is a problem if a customer tells the supplier what they do or do not like?
It is a free world. It is not like the dev has to follow suit. This is no difference from the trekkies who wrote NBC when star trek was cancelled. It is just that you don't like what they ask for.
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
Yes, I'm sure developers think it ideal to ask players to just leave the game completely because someone is preventing them from even completing content for no other reason than because it's easy for them and they wanna rustle jimmies.
Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
Yeah because developers have no responsibility lol. Want to stop spawn camping as a developer? Give a re-spawned player a 5 minute immunity form player damage. Sounds pretty fucking simple to me if they actually do give a shit about stopping it.
And it's not like it's a new concept. Immunity timers have been around forever.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
Is that the average griefer? A sexist nerd? Well, not that I'm surprised...
Victims will be victims.
Sorry to have made you the victim of the way you treat women in your lousy comparison.
How do I treat women? How is what I said sexist in any way?
Exactly, a weakling whose only option is to play victim and try to create a "he's barbaric" narrative against something you don't like. Not only that but you're too ignorant to read the bold text and look at the context of the conversation before pushing your passive aggressive nose into my comment.
Go take a seat helpless villager.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
Is that the average griefer? A sexist nerd? Well, not that I'm surprised...
Victims will be victims.
Sorry to have made you the victim of the way you treat women in your lousy comparison.
How do I treat women? How is what I said sexist in any way?
Exactly, a weakling whose only option is to play victim and try to create a "he's barbaric" narrative against something you don't like. Not only that but you're too ignorant to read the bold text and look at the context of the conversation before pushing your passive aggressive nose into my comment.
Go take a seat helpless villager.
Luckily, the asshole's opinion of his own actions isn't binding to the rest of us when making judgement on those actions. Otherwise Trump's approval rating would be 100%.
While I think flybynight is a griefer of the highest order, I don't see how what he said has anything to do with women in particular, and I'm a woman. More like... he's insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him because he thinks griefing is a good thing.
Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him.
Comparing someone to the female sexual organ in a degrading way isn't exactly being a feminist. But whatever, not really important.
I call people "dick" as a synonym for jerk. I really wouldn't read much into it. When you start reading too much into simple word usages like that you spend way more time being offended than could possibly be productive. There are more important fights to be had in the world than that.
I just find it peculiar people judge how someone behaves in real life by their online actions within the context of gaming. Especially role playing games. Places where you take on any persona you want.
Do people judge Brad Pitts personality based on the roles he plays in films?
I have nothing against griefing if the game allows it.
It may not be an indicator of how a person behaves in real life. However, it may well be an indication how that person would behave if real life suddenly became equally accommodating to griefing as some online games.
The actions one takes when beyond consequence, especially when effectively anonymous, are often the most genuinely defining.
Role-playing could well be an exception to that, with the actions revealing the adopted persona instead of the actual, but I encounter precious little role-playing in online games of any genre, so I think that would by far be the exception.
Comments
What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.
It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
If the griefer repeatedly engages a player who's defenseless, they're deliberately engaging in a behavior to prevent that player from enjoying game content without a real chance to defend themselves and with no reward to the griefer aside from knowing he's preventing someone else from enjoying the game. It was their intent to grief, not the other player's intent to be griefed.
You have several explanations as to why this is an asinine comparison, you refuse to understand them.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
In a way it IS all acting but that's a philosophical detail that is neither here nor there. What we think of them is all based on how they act when we see them acting.
It ain't much of a stretch to see someone behaving like an asshat in a game or even here in the forums and form an opinion about what sort of person they are.
Take Gdemami for instance, his behavior in the forums makes me think that he has a massive superiority complex which is usually a sign of small stature or at least smallness of select crucial body parts. I could be wrong but that's the impression I have.
Same with habitual griefers. Absent any evidence to the contrary I think they are asshats in all parts of their life.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
You certainly aren't setting bar very high...
I agree it's being a jerk in-game. But there's no evidence to believe same atritude goes on in real life as well.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It has, "I'm gullible, fuck me over" written all over it.
I really have have no sympathy for people who get fucked over by someone they only know online. Might as well just paint a target on your forehead.
~~ postlarval ~~
" Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise, you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off you". ..
In a game you cant do anyhting about it .in his example there is lots you can do
In all seriousness though, the game doesn't promote griefing. The anonymity of the internet promotes it.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I would start by making a game P2W and having equipment upgrades and junk in the cash shop (not just in the world), and I would have a small resource map where one guild controls it to the point that people will do anything to join that guild in order to mine/farm that map.
I would also make the classes in a way that late-game (or the more money spent) really makes the power of the class come out.
If only there was a game like that?
Oh wait, there are many games like this already in the present day. :P
So many, that Westerners see the tag "F2P" on a game, and avoid it like the plague due to the horror stories of the past. :P
Anyone who suffers in entertainment VOLUNTARILY deserves 100% what they are getting.
And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like.
Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended.
It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition. Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
~~ postlarval ~~
It is a free world. It is not like the dev has to follow suit. This is no difference from the trekkies who wrote NBC when star trek was cancelled. It is just that you don't like what they ask for.
And it's not like it's a new concept. Immunity timers have been around forever.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Exactly, a weakling whose only option is to play victim and try to create a "he's barbaric" narrative against something you don't like. Not only that but you're too ignorant to read the bold text and look at the context of the conversation before pushing your passive aggressive nose into my comment.
Go take a seat helpless villager.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him.
The actions one takes when beyond consequence, especially when effectively anonymous, are often the most genuinely defining.
Role-playing could well be an exception to that, with the actions revealing the adopted persona instead of the actual, but I encounter precious little role-playing in online games of any genre, so I think that would by far be the exception.