Originally posted by SpiritofGame It's a law of MMORPGs that players will gravitate to where the big XP and uber loot is -- if that big XP and uber loot is at the bottom of raid dungeons, trust me, "the game" will be about RAIDING. It will have nothing to do with percentages of solo, small group and raid content. Solo players will be marginalized, small group content will be PUGs, and only uber guilds able to field a large number of players at one time will be the ones who will dominate "the game" and that game will be all about RAIDING. As much as I admire Vanguard: Saga of Heroes I cannot help but feel that this will truly be a "forced grouping" game. That is not a bad thing, but it does mean there will be "a way" to play the game, sometimes known as the Golden Path. This suggests to me that the game will suffer from inflexibility. This is particularly noted when the Devs respond to the concerns of casual or soloist players by saying they can "do crafting" while waiting on guild members to log on, regardless of the fact that players do NOT WANT to "do crafting" just because they cannot find a group or belong to a large guild. Devs have already said that the best loot will be dropped in raid situations and that you will either need to raid to get it or buy it from those who have done the raiding. And that is "the way" the game will be played regardless of any percentages of solo, small group and raid content they make available.
That is not true only a small percentage of the best gear will come from raids. The best gear will come from raids, grouping quests, solo/casual, crafting, diplomacy and time consuming efforts.
Here is what Brad has said in regards to raiding and loot distribution at max level.
Originally posted by Aradune The majority of content, regardless of level range, is centered around the grouping experience, with the minority focused on more casual content and raid content."
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Originally posted by Aradune
What's key here is that the best items should come from experiences where there was the greatest risk vs. reward and time commitment (plus, there's always luck -- being in the right place at the right time, etc.).
Some of the best items will come from conventional raiding (large groups of people participating in long contiguous adventures). Some will come from long adventures consisting of less people and more importantly, while a lot of time will have to be invested, the content will be such that all of that time doesn't have to be contiguous.
Some also will come from the other spheres, but much of the same applies: the best components harvested and then used later to craft the best items will be very rare and in very dangerous locations. Some of it may require long contiguous time commitments, while others will be obtainable by completing several shorter contiguous adventures.
So I guess I'm still not totally sure what exactly you are asking here....
Will you be able to collect ALL of the best gear in the game without going on conventional raids and/or without trading/buying gear obtained from conventional raids? No.
Will you be able to obtain some of the very best gear without particpating in conventional raids and/or buying gear obtained via conventional raiding? Absolutely.
If your desire is to be able to obtain any and all gear without ever having to raid or buy equipment obtained via raiding, then Vanguard may not be for you. But if you are content with obtaining some subset of the best gear without raiding or buying raid dropped equipment (or items created via crafting from harvested components obtained via raiding), then I think Vanguard will be fine for you.
Really, if you want the option of obtaining any item in the game period without buying/trading for it, you'll need to involve yourself in all aspects of the game, not just raiding. You'll need to level up in harvesting/crafting, level up in diplomacy, experience the higher end grouping dungeons and such, and also have the tenacity and patience to invest quite a bit of time in the game in general, as going on a high level adventure, whether group or raid oriented, doesn't guarantee that you will obtain that item you seek anyway. Someone else might get the item, or the item might not be available each and every time anyway, as perhaps the rare spawn that drops that item, or rare harvestable, just isn't around that night, or the quest that triggers a sequence of encounter segments that leads to that 'golden' boss mob might already be taken by another group, or even the mob or switch or item or whatever flags you and your group as being able to particpate on the encounter segment might not be 'up' either.
Bottom line: if you want it all, you have to be willing to particpate in all aspects of the game, especially if you are not willing to buy/trade and particpate in the player driven economy, and when I say 'all' of the game, that would include the raids as well.
No. Many of them will, but many will also be available to groups. Often the very best items will require a long time commitment, but these commitments shouldn't have to always be contiguous. In other words, say it requires 12 hours of adventuring to obtain a powerful item. In some extreme cases, this could require a raid, or even a group and it could take you all day to complete. In other cases, however, the 12 hours can be broken up into three 4 hour chunks, where the quest or encounter route for the item is broken up into fourths, such that after you achive 1/4 of the quest or route, you can save, re-group the next day, and then finish up another 3 hour chunk.
I've posted quite a bit on this months ago and encourage your and anyone intrerested to dig up the posts (some have been re-posted in this thread already -- thanks guys). In a nutshell, we want the best items to be available though a variety of routes: raids, long contiguous adventures, broken up adventures, trade skills, diplomacy, etc. The only potentially controversial aspect of this is that is likely that not ALL of the best items you might want will be availble through only one of these methods. If you are a person who wants ALL of the best stuff, you'll have to involve yourself in all of the above, including raiding and long contiguous adventures, even though the majority of content, including that which yeilds great rewards, will be group oriented.
Essentially, if you want it all (whether items or abilities or spells or whatever), you pretty much have to DO it all as well. I do stress, however, that to be a powerful and effective player, you don't have to do it all. What I'm talking about is the subset of players who, from a personal preference, decide they have to have all of the best gear of every type, for every situation, etc.
Originally posted by ste2000 -And how do you know that people who likes Vanguard has nothing else to do in their lives? WTF do you know about that?
Nothing whatsoever. But of course I never said that. I know absolutely nothing about you, other than seeing that you are asking for a job from Sigil in your sig, which, btw, casts doubt on your objectivity about their game. But I fully support them hiring you and hope you get the job! I think you would fit right in.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Amathe Originally posted by ste2000 -And how do you know that people who likes Vanguard has nothing else to do in their lives? WTF do you know about that?
Nothing whatsoever. But of course I never said that. I know absolutely nothing about you, other than seeing that you are asking for a job from Sigil in your sig, which, btw, casts doubt on your objectivity about their game. But I fully support them hiring you and hope you get the job! I think you would fit right in.
Hmmm, I don't know if you read your own posts....but
Originally posted by Amathe But don't get me wrong. I LOVE the fact that Sigil is making Vanguard. If they can successfully attract all the self important gamers who thrive on believing they are better than everyone else and who think their cartoon is their virtual dick, the rest of the mmorpg world will be a better place for their absence. So please, don't let me discourage you if you feel that way! Play Vanguard. Play it to the exclusion of everything else.
Or maybe someone else took over your account and wrote it without your knowledge........
Yes it's easy to have a go at me because of the banner, but that was the point of my previous post. People like you don't know how to debate, and needs either to insult people by generalising or accuse them of being fanboys, but I don't expect anything else from people like you. The disclaimer under the banner is there, because people thought I was part of Sigil, and I don't want to think that I am part of it, since I am not a trained person in comunity relations therefore I might say something which is not in line with Sigil policies, therefore damaging the company reputation.
I am very passionate about Vanguard, but I am not a fanboy who defend the game at any cost. As you might have noticed, all my posts are very long, and the reason why is that I like to explain my point of view as clear as possible, so even people like you can understand Vanguard a little bit more. I never say things like: "Vanguard will rock, you stupid git, STFU" I always try to address all the critics in a constructive way, trying to explain the issues as best as I can, because I believe Vanguard give me enough material to do that. I don't have to invent anything in order to impress people, Vanguard has already amazing features, that just need to be explained to misinformed people like you. When the game will not give me enough material to discuss anymore, I will STFU. So far there is plenty to talk about, so I ll be around for a little bit longer
/sigh I read them. But you are comparing apples to oranges.
There is a difference between a player's attitude about the game and their fellow players, which can be gleaned from their posts, and knowing something about their real life situation, where most of the time posts don't tell you much about them personally, especially how much time they have to play or why.
The first quote is a statement about attitude and gaming philosophy. The second quote was an admission that I don't know the player behind the post. Those aren't inconsistent. As a professed "debator", I am sure upon reflection you will see this.
To be absolutely clear, just because a person has a lot of time to play a videogame doesn't mean they are a loser. For example, they could be retired. They could be independently wealthy. They could have passive income. They could be a student or a child. They could be disabled. Their work could be seasonal. They could work in the gaming industry. Or they may simply choose to use the bulk of whatever free time they have on gaming. I'm not saying that everyone who puts a lot of time into playing a videogame is a putz (though we all know there are some).
I'm not down on players who play a lot, though admittedly I don't want to play a game where I cannot have any reasonable success and/or fun unless I play 8 hours a day.
What I am saying is that there is a type of gamer who believes that games are all about status and hierarchy, and they lord their supposed status over others in an obnoxious way while excoriating anyone who is just there to have a little fun. Gamers like this are flocking to Vanguard like moths to a flame. Just read any one of the thousands of rants on the Vanguard boards denouncing casuals, "dumbed down" games, "lazy" players who don't want to "work", "go back to WoW", blah, blah, blah.
And my point is that I think this is great. If Vanguard can shepard all those players into its game, I won't have to run into as many of them in the games I play. Do I think Vanguard will be a financial success given its business model and the type of community it is attracting? Hell no. But more than even you, I want to see it succeed so that it can keep the kind of players it is attracting away from the rest of us.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Ok now is more clear, although I don't understand why you don't like this kind of people exactly. Anyway it is this line that really pissed me off: "Play it to the exclusion of everything else.", which I believe it means exactly what I was talking about earlier. Anyway let's leave it there.
By the way as I said, not everyone who plays games like Vanguard has lots of time. You can't say that who plays Vanguard is the people who has lots of time, I don't have lots of time to play unfortunately, but I want a game that challenge me when I have time to play it. I played WoW for 5 months and in my Guild there were plenty of people who played up to 40 hours a week. At the moment I am playing EQ2 and again there are lots of people who play almost 40 hours a week. The word "casual" doesn't necessary mean that you play only few hours, it means that is an easy game where you can achieve something by playing a little. But believe me, there are lots of Harcore players with lots of time in their hands who play "casual" games and they are not flocking here to play Vanguard. It's all relative, it all depends on how much do you like a game that make you decide how long do you play, it's not the game itself.
Why is forced grouping such a bad thing? EQ, could pretty much be considering a forced grouping game and I had tons of fun in that. Much of the game i used shouting out in large areas to find groups and while it wasn't a perfect system, it helped me make alot of friends in the game. By the time i hit the highest levels there were very few people i surrounded myself with that i didn't know well, and i would have vouched for any of their abilities to play their classes. I love WoW plenty, but the sheer amount of solo content is as much a curse as a blessing. People don't even bother to begin the social game untill they hit lvl 60 and then they generally go to the boards to bitch cause they can't get groups and can't get in raids.
I know some will say soloing was possible in EQ. To an extent it was, but it was not the easiest path and it required alot of skill. The average soloer already had grouped his first few characters to 50 and soloing with a necro was the next challenge. If it were up to me, soloing content would be made so tough as to encourage grouping, but left for someone who wanted the challenge. As for loot, that should be independent of the gorup that got it. Just give the hardest mobs the best loot, and if some psycho can pull off soloing that then so be it. But if a soloer is stuck with trash loot then i hope he enjoyed the challenge of it cause thats the reward.
I am so glad that Sigil is going to break away from current MMO's and focus on a group oriented game. Not everyone is going to be pleased and I like that.
Originally posted by Heltern The rotten ship, Vanguard is already sinking!
welcome back troll, i see you have a new ignorant Sig but at least it is consistent with your generalizations you have always made.
so let me get this straight, because a few people broke the NDA that is Prof that "KIDS are the only ones that will play this time sink."?
oh and BTW in case you haven't noticed (witch obviously you haven't) all mmo's are a time sink especially your beloved wow.
i know you are not trying to bring any real discussion and you are just trying to troll, but why don't you stop and take a look at how many "kids" or better yet immature people play wow before you troll these boards?
and one last thing, NDA's get broken with every game being made, so i guess going by your logic that only kids play every mmo right? what a joke!
I don't play WoW. I know the kiddies that are lined up with Mom's credit card for Vanguard. I used to play EQ1, just like the little fanboi's of crappy Vanguard. People like "Axem" 293 days played 10 hours 47 minutes, who quit around the Velious expansion. We know those (like you) who just sit on these games. Or maybe Terrelia with 550+ days played! Weirdo's are going to play Vanguard, like these weirdo's. You can find a lot of facts on Everquest's weirdo's now. Just look up some of these guys characters and see the giant time sinks in place.
The devs are bailing already, Vanguard is doomed! Your dreams of playing 24/7 are over!
Originally posted by Heltern I don't play WoW. I know the kiddies that are lined up with Mom's credit card for Vanguard. I used to play EQ1, just like the little fanboi's of crappy Vanguard. People like "Axem" 293 days played 10 hours 47 minutes, who quit around the Velious expansion. We know those (like you) who just sit on these games. Or maybe Terrelia with 550+ days played! Weirdo's are going to play Vanguard, like these weirdo's. You can find a lot of facts on Everquest's weirdo's now. Just look up some of these guys characters and see the giant time sinks in place. The devs are bailing already, Vanguard is doomed! Your dreams of playing 24/7 are over!
lol, suuure you don't play wow.....i would like to know what mmo you do play thats not a time sink? i need a good laugh
also i know guys with well over 100 days played on wow, can you please explain that?
i don't play 24/7, my eq character has 80 days played in ruffly 3 years of playing, in 1 1/2 years of playing wow over all the characters i have made i have well over that but i also dual boxed.
maybe you haven't reached maximum lvl in wow or maybe you just don't know as much as you claim you do, but as soon as you get to endgame wow turns into a huge grindfest just like all the rest but actually worse IMO.
not saying wow is a bad game, its a great game.....but it is indeed a timesink, just like every other mmo. kids and adults play all these games and i am just sick of the generalizations.
if you want to hate vanguard for whatever reason that is fine, but making shit up or just trolling these boards isn't doing anybody any good, just making you look like a jackass lol
I don't play WoW, I don't play raid centric games period. I play Guild Wars a little because it is PvP based.
Why do I hate Brad? He is the one that brought c*ckblocking and raiding to MMORPGs. The worst ideas ever. Thats all Vanguard will be is raiding, I don't care if he claims it is 20% of the game. When raid gear ends up 3 times better then group gear, the game IS a raid game. If all there is to do is raid at maximum level it IS a raid game. Raid games are old and boring, time to either fix mob AI so they aren't so stupid as to stand and wait for a raid to buff and kill them or play a PvP based game.
I also hate seeing the same mob killed over and over, it dies once, then remove it. I expect third generation games to break new ground. Not repeat first gen or second gen which I still call first gen because after all, how much is WoW different then EQ1? Not near enough, all WoW does is allow soloing to 60, a vastly superior idea to the stupid forced grouping crap.
Yea sure raiders don't play excessively, let me add from Afterlife "Players that play a lot, every day, because that's how we play as a guild.
We raid every day but Saturday, usually starting at 5:30pm PST. If you can't play from that point until after midnight, every day, then AL isn't for you"
If you aren't first or second best guild on the server what are you? A Vanguard poster said it best "who the hell are the sixth + guild, we didn't know them". You are shut out, c*ckblocked out of the game. So sing your lying song that these nerds don't play 8+ hours a day, we all know the lie. There is already Vanguard nerds calling for AA abilities, afterall when they have no life what else is there?
I am not the only one who feels this way, devs are quitting because the "same old same old" doesn't cut it in a crowded MMORPG world.
Originally posted by Nubaa Originally posted by Heltern
afterall when they have no life what else is there?
Kinda like how you keep posting on a forum for a game that you don't even like?
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
Originally posted by Heltern Originally posted by Nubaa Originally posted by Heltern
afterall when they have no life what else is there?
Kinda like how you keep posting on a forum for a game that you don't even like?
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
I am not sure what forums you have been reading. But if you look through these forums and read many of the fanboys like myself who post you will see that many of us have concerns about the game and its development. Most of the fanboys here also understand that Vanguad is not a game for everyone. Rather its the last hope for many experienced hardcore gamers. Simply because someone likes or dislikes a games design doesn't mean they should be subjected to flames and called names.
I have no problem with you disliking Vanguards game design or your opinion that you think it will be a poor game. Vanguard is certainly not being made or targeted towards the masses. But what I find offensive about your post is the name calling, flaming and general immature tone of your post. Just because you have an opinion does not make it right or more important than that of anyone else who posts here. Your post looks and smells more like an attention seeking immature post rather than an actual discussion of what you don't like about Vanguard. Treat other people with respect and they are more likely to take your posts seriously.
Originally posted by Heltern I don't play WoW, I don't play raid centric games period. I play Guild Wars a little because it is PvP based. Why do I hate Brad? He is the one that brought c*ckblocking and raiding to MMORPGs. The worst ideas ever. Thats all Vanguard will be is raiding, I don't care if he claims it is 20% of the game. When raid gear ends up 3 times better then group gear, the game IS a raid game. If all there is to do is raid at maximum level it IS a raid game. Raid games are old and boring, time to either fix mob AI so they aren't so stupid as to stand and wait for a raid to buff and kill them or play a PvP based game. I also hate seeing the same mob killed over and over, it dies once, then remove it. I expect third generation games to break new ground. Not repeat first gen or second gen which I still call first gen because after all, how much is WoW different then EQ1? Not near enough, all WoW does is allow soloing to 60, a vastly superior idea to the stupid forced grouping crap. Yea sure raiders don't play excessively, let me add from Afterlife "Players that play a lot, every day, because that's how we play as a guild. We raid every day but Saturday, usually starting at 5:30pm PST. If you can't play from that point until after midnight, every day, then AL isn't for you" If you aren't first or second best guild on the server what are you? A Vanguard poster said it best "who the hell are the sixth + guild, we didn't know them". You are shut out, c*ckblocked out of the game. So sing your lying song that these nerds don't play 8+ hours a day, we all know the lie. There is already Vanguard nerds calling for AA abilities, afterall when they have no life what else is there? I am not the only one who feels this way, devs are quitting because the "same old same old" doesn't cut it in a crowded MMORPG world.
okay i get it now, you attack anyone that doesn't agree with you or have the same play style as you? i think that is really childish.
and no, the raid gear wont be 3x better than everything els, don't believe me? read this quote from brad....
No, I think my posts were consistent, although perhaps not as clear as they could have been. Some of the best items will only be obtainabile via raiding, other best items through grouping, and others through special casual areas, and others through the other spheres (harvesting/crafting and diplomacy).
Let me try to come up with a quick hypothetical example -- it's simplistic, but perhaps will make more sense:
1. The best all around helmet (say non-situational -- it has the best AC, or the best +STR attribute) for a warrior may come from a high level group zone
2. The best fire resistant vambraces may come from a raid zone
3. The best light armor boots may come from a challenging encounter that is made for casual/solo size groups (1-3).
4. The best AC armor (call it the Red Dragonscale Breastplate) may come from dragon scales collected in a difficult group dungeon, but then also require a high level harvester to actually collect the the scales in the depths of a the dragon's lair, and then a high level crafter to be able to use it and other components to actually create the Red Dragonscale Breastplate
5. The best +Charisma Cloak (call it the Royal Red Sparrow Robe) that enables you access to the throne room in New Targonar may come from a series of challenging diplomatic quests requiring high skills, items, and strategy used by one or more players playing in the Diplomacy sphere.
Were a person to absolutely insist on obtaining all 5 of these hypothetical items above, he would have to either a. engage in all 5 activities to some significant extent, as well as work with others in most of the examples or b. buy/trade for them, assuming they are items that are tradable.
but i suppose hes lying right? and dude i cannot stand guildwars, but do you see me on their boards trolling trying to piss people off and generalizing their fans calling them "kids"? nooooo you don't.
why do you think that just because of some uber guild that i don't know or care about has anything to do with the true fan base of vanguard? like it will just be a few uberguilds and nobody els, do you realize how stupid that sounds? why do you generalize so much?
i mean other than the fact that i know you are just trying to troll and get people mad. but seriously, do you really believe the garbage you are writing?
Kid, in those forums we don't blast anyone who criticise Vanguard with genuine arguments. But if you don't chill out and start being civilized, you will end up tasting some proper flaming. There is nothing I enjoy more than "blasting" brain dead trolls.
Maybe it's me, but I'm very surprised at all the flaming going on about a game that's first in Beta, and second not even open to the majority of the fan base yet. Matter of fact is'nt there still a lock out of beta at the moment for all new people due to the switch from Microsoft to SOE? Personally I think that the majority of the issues people are having right now is that switch..................I have been playing SOE games since EQ 1, They have both ups and downs. SWG was a complete screw up, But EQ is going for 7 or 8 years now. EQ2 is not as bad as everyone tries to make it out to be. It's not WoW, that's for sure, But it's keeping my interest and i've played WoW, it's one of those games where you like it or you dont. I dont care for the disney animation in an MMO, i like the graphics of eq2, the game play is decent and it's definately gotten alot better over the last 2 years. I think people's biggest mistakes are they dont understand that these games evolve constantly, they are not ever done when released, not in the common sense anyway. You will always have things that were unexpected, It's the nature of the beast in mmo's. It's so common now that even games that you play on your own, such as Battle for Middle-Earth I and II get patches at times. Stuff comes up. So when you talking about a multi-facet game as an mmo...I'm not sure what people expect. I think when this game get's released there is going to need to be some apologies handed out in big numbers. Most of the people that are bashing it are prolly SOE haters or Blizzard fanboys that dont want to give another Company a chance to do something well. Apparently these guys know what they are doing cause they made a game that is still going after 7 years.
I wish you all well. Can't wait to see what you guys put out there. I'll play it. I've beta'd a few games they are buggy and glitchy, but it's cool to see it when they come back and fix those glitches and bugs.
Originally posted by Heltern I don't play WoW, I don't play raid centric games period. I play Guild Wars a little because it is PvP based. Why do I hate Brad? He is the one that brought c*ckblocking and raiding to MMORPGs. The worst ideas ever. Thats all Vanguard will be is raiding, I don't care if he claims it is 20% of the game. When raid gear ends up 3 times better then group gear, the game IS a raid game. If all there is to do is raid at maximum level it IS a raid game. Raid games are old and boring, time to either fix mob AI so they aren't so stupid as to stand and wait for a raid to buff and kill them or play a PvP based game. I also hate seeing the same mob killed over and over, it dies once, then remove it. I expect third generation games to break new ground. Not repeat first gen or second gen which I still call first gen because after all, how much is WoW different then EQ1? Not near enough, all WoW does is allow soloing to 60, a vastly superior idea to the stupid forced grouping crap. Yea sure raiders don't play excessively, let me add from Afterlife "Players that play a lot, every day, because that's how we play as a guild. We raid every day but Saturday, usually starting at 5:30pm PST. If you can't play from that point until after midnight, every day, then AL isn't for you" If you aren't first or second best guild on the server what are you? A Vanguard poster said it best "who the hell are the sixth + guild, we didn't know them". You are shut out, c*ckblocked out of the game. So sing your lying song that these nerds don't play 8+ hours a day, we all know the lie. There is already Vanguard nerds calling for AA abilities, afterall when they have no life what else is there? I am not the only one who feels this way, devs are quitting because the "same old same old" doesn't cut it in a crowded MMORPG world.
Originally posted by Heltern Originally posted by Nubaa Originally posted by Heltern
afterall when they have no life what else is there?
Kinda like how you keep posting on a forum for a game that you don't even like?
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad. the vanboy forum community is horrible, horrible, horrible. they are a mindless mob of fanatical fanboism, zerging even the mildest criticism of game and showing an unhealthy religious-like adoration for brad and his retarded "vision".
Originally posted by Heltern I don't play WoW, I don't play raid centric games period. I play Guild Wars a little because it is PvP based. Why do I hate Brad? He is the one that brought c*ckblocking and raiding to MMORPGs. The worst ideas ever. Thats all Vanguard will be is raiding, I don't care if he claims it is 20% of the game. When raid gear ends up 3 times better then group gear, the game IS a raid game. If all there is to do is raid at maximum level it IS a raid game. Raid games are old and boring, time to either fix mob AI so they aren't so stupid as to stand and wait for a raid to buff and kill them or play a PvP based game. I also hate seeing the same mob killed over and over, it dies once, then remove it. I expect third generation games to break new ground. Not repeat first gen or second gen which I still call first gen because after all, how much is WoW different then EQ1? Not near enough, all WoW does is allow soloing to 60, a vastly superior idea to the stupid forced grouping crap. Yea sure raiders don't play excessively, let me add from Afterlife "Players that play a lot, every day, because that's how we play as a guild. We raid every day but Saturday, usually starting at 5:30pm PST. If you can't play from that point until after midnight, every day, then AL isn't for you" If you aren't first or second best guild on the server what are you? A Vanguard poster said it best "who the hell are the sixth + guild, we didn't know them". You are shut out, c*ckblocked out of the game. So sing your lying song that these nerds don't play 8+ hours a day, we all know the lie. There is already Vanguard nerds calling for AA abilities, afterall when they have no life what else is there? I am not the only one who feels this way, devs are quitting because the "same old same old" doesn't cut it in a crowded MMORPG world.
Since you have such great idea's on what an MMO is supposed to be like, why dont you start designing one, make sure you make it so everyone on the planet that plays will like it, all styles of play should be addressed when you do. Hey, if you start tomorrow you might be done by 2016. All this bashing everyone is doing to a game that has yet to be released and that no one really knows anything about is out of hand. I play these games just like everyone else, i hop from game to game. When i dont like one i move to the next. you play Guildwars cause it's free, not cause you like it. I've played it......it was ok. It's not for me. But you dont see me here bashing the sh*t out of it either. The amount of time people spend bashing games, even prior to release is crazy. Raids suck...........I rarely have time to envolve myself with them. Does that mean i get less than great loot..........prolly. These games are not about the loot for me though, if that is what it is for others maybe they should find a different hobby then. Obviously this guy is pissed off at some one for something. And it's not really stated here, but I would bet my ass that it's cause he did'nt get into a good raiding guild in EQ 1, or he did and never got the good loot cause of someone else's needs. I played EQ1 and rarely got to particpate in large raids either, but i had alot of fun playing while i was there. Different strokes for different folks i guess.
Anywho, I have alot of hope for this game, I might be let down.......I might not. I'm definately not so big on the whole SOE thing being thrown into the mix. But like anything else it will be what it will be. It's all a big waiting game right now. They are still in Beta. and will be for another 6 months....atleast. who the hell really thinks the game should be anywhere near bug free right now??? All these games go live with bugs, it's the nature of the beast with an MMO. there are so many things that are not expected before you have 500,000 people log in, when your working with a few thousand beta testers how can you tell what's going to happen when you get large numbers doing several different things at the same time. You just don't know. I still want to see what this game looks like at release. Those of you that don't, why are you posting here anyway?? you trying to convince someone that you know more about the game than everyone else and that there is somewhere else we should invest our time in??? if so please, do tell. If it's anything like that disney game WoW though, save your breath. There are alot of things that i like about that game, but the disney characters killed it for me from the beginning.
Originally posted by jonaku Originally posted by Heltern Originally posted by Nubaa Originally posted by Heltern
afterall when they have no life what else is there?
Kinda like how you keep posting on a forum for a game that you don't even like?
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad. the vanboy forum community is horrible, horrible, horrible. they are a mindless mob of fanatical fanboism, zerging even the mildest criticism of game and showing an unhealthy religious-like adoration for brad and his retarded "vision". The Vanguard forums aren't nearly as bad as this site's forum has become. It used to be a place to find good information about current and soon to be released MMOs, now it is nothing but a lot of misinformation, trolls, SOE haters, and Eve lovers. I have been posting here a long time and the forums are sadly just a shadow of what they used to be.
I mostly solo'd a Magician in Everquest to 50th level. In all honesty, I think the only reason I tortured myself doing it is so many people told me I wouldn't be able to. I sure showed them! Only took me a couple of years or so
Originally posted by Echorox I know some will say soloing was possible in EQ. To an extent it was, but it was not the easiest path and it required alot of skill. The average soloer already had grouped his first few characters to 50 and soloing with a necro was the next challenge. If it were up to me, soloing content would be made so tough as to encourage grouping, but left for someone who wanted the challenge. As for loot, that should be independent of the gorup that got it. Just give the hardest mobs the best loot, and if some psycho can pull off soloing that then so be it. But if a soloer is stuck with trash loot then i hope he enjoyed the challenge of it cause thats the reward.
Originally posted by n2sooners Originally posted by jonaku Originally posted by Heltern Originally posted by Nubaa Originally posted by Heltern
afterall when they have no life what else is there?
Kinda like how you keep posting on a forum for a game that you don't even like?
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad. the vanboy forum community is horrible, horrible, horrible. they are a mindless mob of fanatical fanboism, zerging even the mildest criticism of game and showing an unhealthy religious-like adoration for brad and his retarded "vision". The Vanguard forums aren't nearly as bad as this site's forum has become. It used to be a place to find good information about current and soon to be released MMOs, now it is nothing but a lot of misinformation, trolls, SOE haters, and Eve lovers. I have been posting here a long time and the forums are sadly just a shadow of what they used to be.
i disagree. on this forum, you learn what a horrible community Vanguard has. you also learn all the craptular features of the game that get shouted down in the vanboi forums. this forum is a far more objective and useful source of information. which is that people should stay away from this joke of an mmo.
i disagree. on this forum, you learn what a horrible community Vanguard has. you also learn all the craptular features of the game that get shouted down in the vanboi forums. this forum is a far more objective and useful source of information. which is that people should stay away from this joke of an mmo.
A prime example of the type of post which contains nothing factual and contains nothing but mud slinging that has brought this site down from the great resource of useful information it used to be.
Comments
That is not true only a small percentage of the best gear will come from raids. The best gear will come from raids, grouping quests, solo/casual, crafting, diplomacy and time consuming efforts.
Here is what Brad has said in regards to raiding and loot distribution at max level.
Originally posted by Aradune
The majority of content, regardless of level range, is centered around the grouping experience, with the minority focused on more casual content and raid content."
[
Originally posted by Aradune
What's key here is that the best items should come from experiences where there was the greatest risk vs. reward and time commitment (plus, there's always luck -- being in the right place at the right time, etc.).
Some of the best items will come from conventional raiding (large groups of people participating in long contiguous adventures). Some will come from long adventures consisting of less people and more importantly, while a lot of time will have to be invested, the content will be such that all of that time doesn't have to be contiguous.
Some also will come from the other spheres, but much of the same applies: the best components harvested and then used later to craft the best items will be very rare and in very dangerous locations. Some of it may require long contiguous time commitments, while others will be obtainable by completing several shorter contiguous adventures.
So I guess I'm still not totally sure what exactly you are asking here....
Will you be able to collect ALL of the best gear in the game without going on conventional raids and/or without trading/buying gear obtained from conventional raids? No.
Will you be able to obtain some of the very best gear without particpating in conventional raids and/or buying gear obtained via conventional raiding? Absolutely.
If your desire is to be able to obtain any and all gear without ever having to raid or buy equipment obtained via raiding, then Vanguard may not be for you. But if you are content with obtaining some subset of the best gear without raiding or buying raid dropped equipment (or items created via crafting from harvested components obtained via raiding), then I think Vanguard will be fine for you.
Really, if you want the option of obtaining any item in the game period without buying/trading for it, you'll need to involve yourself in all aspects of the game, not just raiding. You'll need to level up in harvesting/crafting, level up in diplomacy, experience the higher end grouping dungeons and such, and also have the tenacity and patience to invest quite a bit of time in the game in general, as going on a high level adventure, whether group or raid oriented, doesn't guarantee that you will obtain that item you seek anyway. Someone else might get the item, or the item might not be available each and every time anyway, as perhaps the rare spawn that drops that item, or rare harvestable, just isn't around that night, or the quest that triggers a sequence of encounter segments that leads to that 'golden' boss mob might already be taken by another group, or even the mob or switch or item or whatever flags you and your group as being able to particpate on the encounter segment might not be 'up' either.
Bottom line: if you want it all, you have to be willing to particpate in all aspects of the game, especially if you are not willing to buy/trade and particpate in the player driven economy, and when I say 'all' of the game, that would include the raids as well.
[url]http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=39901&mode=linear&perpage=40&pagenumber=2[/url]
Originally posted by Aradune
No. Many of them will, but many will also be available to groups. Often the very best items will require a long time commitment, but these commitments shouldn't have to always be contiguous. In other words, say it requires 12 hours of adventuring to obtain a powerful item. In some extreme cases, this could require a raid, or even a group and it could take you all day to complete. In other cases, however, the 12 hours can be broken up into three 4 hour chunks, where the quest or encounter route for the item is broken up into fourths, such that after you achive 1/4 of the quest or route, you can save, re-group the next day, and then finish up another 3 hour chunk.
I've posted quite a bit on this months ago and encourage your and anyone intrerested to dig up the posts (some have been re-posted in this thread already -- thanks guys). In a nutshell, we want the best items to be available though a variety of routes: raids, long contiguous adventures, broken up adventures, trade skills, diplomacy, etc. The only potentially controversial aspect of this is that is likely that not ALL of the best items you might want will be availble through only one of these methods. If you are a person who wants ALL of the best stuff, you'll have to involve yourself in all of the above, including raiding and long contiguous adventures, even though the majority of content, including that which yeilds great rewards, will be group oriented.
Essentially, if you want it all (whether items or abilities or spells or whatever), you pretty much have to DO it all as well. I do stress, however, that to be a powerful and effective player, you don't have to do it all. What I'm talking about is the subset of players who, from a personal preference, decide they have to have all of the best gear of every type, for every situation, etc.
http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45124&page=2&highlight=gear
Nothing whatsoever. But of course I never said that. I know absolutely nothing about you, other than seeing that you are asking for a job from Sigil in your sig, which, btw, casts doubt on your objectivity about their game. But I fully support them hiring you and hope you get the job! I think you would fit right in.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Nothing whatsoever. But of course I never said that. I know absolutely nothing about you, other than seeing that you are asking for a job from Sigil in your sig, which, btw, casts doubt on your objectivity about their game. But I fully support them hiring you and hope you get the job! I think you would fit right in.
Hmmm, I don't know if you read your own posts....but
Or maybe someone else took over your account and wrote it without your knowledge........
Yes it's easy to have a go at me because of the banner, but that was the point of my previous post.
People like you don't know how to debate, and needs either to insult people by generalising or accuse them of being fanboys, but I don't expect anything else from people like you.
The disclaimer under the banner is there, because people thought I was part of Sigil, and I don't want to think that I am part of it, since I am not a trained person in comunity relations therefore I might say something which is not in line with Sigil policies, therefore damaging the company reputation.
I am very passionate about Vanguard, but I am not a fanboy who defend the game at any cost.
As you might have noticed, all my posts are very long, and the reason why is that I like to explain my point of view as clear as possible, so even people like you can understand Vanguard a little bit more.
I never say things like: "Vanguard will rock, you stupid git, STFU"
I always try to address all the critics in a constructive way, trying to explain the issues as best as I can, because I believe Vanguard give me enough material to do that. I don't have to invent anything in order to impress people, Vanguard has already amazing features, that just need to be explained to misinformed people like you.
When the game will not give me enough material to discuss anymore, I will STFU.
So far there is plenty to talk about, so I ll be around for a little bit longer
/sigh I read them. But you are comparing apples to oranges.
There is a difference between a player's attitude about the game and their fellow players, which can be gleaned from their posts, and knowing something about their real life situation, where most of the time posts don't tell you much about them personally, especially how much time they have to play or why.
The first quote is a statement about attitude and gaming philosophy. The second quote was an admission that I don't know the player behind the post. Those aren't inconsistent. As a professed "debator", I am sure upon reflection you will see this.
To be absolutely clear, just because a person has a lot of time to play a videogame doesn't mean they are a loser. For example, they could be retired. They could be independently wealthy. They could have passive income. They could be a student or a child. They could be disabled. Their work could be seasonal. They could work in the gaming industry. Or they may simply choose to use the bulk of whatever free time they have on gaming. I'm not saying that everyone who puts a lot of time into playing a videogame is a putz (though we all know there are some).
I'm not down on players who play a lot, though admittedly I don't want to play a game where I cannot have any reasonable success and/or fun unless I play 8 hours a day.
What I am saying is that there is a type of gamer who believes that games are all about status and hierarchy, and they lord their supposed status over others in an obnoxious way while excoriating anyone who is just there to have a little fun. Gamers like this are flocking to Vanguard like moths to a flame. Just read any one of the thousands of rants on the Vanguard boards denouncing casuals, "dumbed down" games, "lazy" players who don't want to "work", "go back to WoW", blah, blah, blah.
And my point is that I think this is great. If Vanguard can shepard all those players into its game, I won't have to run into as many of them in the games I play.
Do I think Vanguard will be a financial success given its business model and the type of community it is attracting? Hell no. But more than even you, I want to see it succeed so that it can keep the kind of players it is attracting away from the rest of us.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Anyway it is this line that really pissed me off: "Play it to the exclusion of everything else.", which I believe it means exactly what I was talking about earlier.
Anyway let's leave it there.
By the way as I said, not everyone who plays games like Vanguard has lots of time.
You can't say that who plays Vanguard is the people who has lots of time, I don't have lots of time to play unfortunately, but I want a game that challenge me when I have time to play it.
I played WoW for 5 months and in my Guild there were plenty of people who played up to 40 hours a week.
At the moment I am playing EQ2 and again there are lots of people who play almost 40 hours a week.
The word "casual" doesn't necessary mean that you play only few hours, it means that is an easy game where you can achieve something by playing a little.
But believe me, there are lots of Harcore players with lots of time in their hands who play "casual" games and they are not flocking here to play Vanguard.
It's all relative, it all depends on how much do you like a game that make you decide how long do you play, it's not the game itself.
Why is forced grouping such a bad thing? EQ, could pretty much be considering a forced grouping game and I had tons of fun in that. Much of the game i used shouting out in large areas to find groups and while it wasn't a perfect system, it helped me make alot of friends in the game. By the time i hit the highest levels there were very few people i surrounded myself with that i didn't know well, and i would have vouched for any of their abilities to play their classes. I love WoW plenty, but the sheer amount of solo content is as much a curse as a blessing. People don't even bother to begin the social game untill they hit lvl 60 and then they generally go to the boards to bitch cause they can't get groups and can't get in raids.
I know some will say soloing was possible in EQ. To an extent it was, but it was not the easiest path and it required alot of skill. The average soloer already had grouped his first few characters to 50 and soloing with a necro was the next challenge. If it were up to me, soloing content would be made so tough as to encourage grouping, but left for someone who wanted the challenge. As for loot, that should be independent of the gorup that got it. Just give the hardest mobs the best loot, and if some psycho can pull off soloing that then so be it. But if a soloer is stuck with trash loot then i hope he enjoyed the challenge of it cause thats the reward.
I am so glad that Sigil is going to break away from current MMO's and focus on a group oriented game. Not everyone is going to be pleased and I like that.
welcome back troll, i see you have a new ignorant Sig but at least it is consistent with your generalizations you have always made.
so let me get this straight, because a few people broke the NDA that is Prof that "KIDS are the only ones that will play this time sink."?
oh and BTW in case you haven't noticed (witch obviously you haven't) all mmo's are a time sink especially your beloved wow.
i know you are not trying to bring any real discussion and you are just trying to troll, but why don't you stop and take a look at how many "kids" or better yet immature people play wow before you troll these boards?
and one last thing, NDA's get broken with every game being made, so i guess going by your logic that only kids play every mmo right? what a joke!
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I don't play WoW. I know the kiddies that are lined up with Mom's credit card for Vanguard. I used to play EQ1, just like the little fanboi's of crappy Vanguard. People like "Axem" 293 days played 10 hours 47 minutes, who quit around the Velious expansion. We know those (like you) who just sit on these games. Or maybe Terrelia with 550+ days played! Weirdo's are going to play Vanguard, like these weirdo's. You can find a lot of facts on Everquest's weirdo's now. Just look up some of these guys characters and see the giant time sinks in place.
The devs are bailing already, Vanguard is doomed! Your dreams of playing 24/7 are over!
lol, suuure you don't play wow.....i would like to know what mmo you do play thats not a time sink? i need a good laugh
also i know guys with well over 100 days played on wow, can you please explain that?
i don't play 24/7, my eq character has 80 days played in ruffly 3 years of playing, in 1 1/2 years of playing wow over all the characters i have made i have well over that but i also dual boxed.
maybe you haven't reached maximum lvl in wow or maybe you just don't know as much as you claim you do, but as soon as you get to endgame wow turns into a huge grindfest just like all the rest but actually worse IMO.
not saying wow is a bad game, its a great game.....but it is indeed a timesink, just like every other mmo. kids and adults play all these games and i am just sick of the generalizations.
if you want to hate vanguard for whatever reason that is fine, but making shit up or just trolling these boards isn't doing anybody any good, just making you look like a jackass lol
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
I don't play WoW, I don't play raid centric games period. I play Guild Wars a little because it is PvP based.
Why do I hate Brad? He is the one that brought c*ckblocking and raiding to MMORPGs. The worst ideas ever. Thats all Vanguard will be is raiding, I don't care if he claims it is 20% of the game. When raid gear ends up 3 times better then group gear, the game IS a raid game. If all there is to do is raid at maximum level it IS a raid game. Raid games are old and boring, time to either fix mob AI so they aren't so stupid as to stand and wait for a raid to buff and kill them or play a PvP based game.
I also hate seeing the same mob killed over and over, it dies once, then remove it. I expect third generation games to break new ground. Not repeat first gen or second gen which I still call first gen because after all, how much is WoW different then EQ1? Not near enough, all WoW does is allow soloing to 60, a vastly superior idea to the stupid forced grouping crap.
Yea sure raiders don't play excessively, let me add from Afterlife "Players that play a lot, every day, because that's how we play as a guild.
We raid every day but Saturday, usually starting at 5:30pm PST. If you can't play from that point until after midnight, every day, then AL isn't for you"
If you aren't first or second best guild on the server what are you? A Vanguard poster said it best "who the hell are the sixth + guild, we didn't know them". You are shut out, c*ckblocked out of the game. So sing your lying song that these nerds don't play 8+ hours a day, we all know the lie. There is already Vanguard nerds calling for AA abilities, afterall when they have no life what else is there?
I am not the only one who feels this way, devs are quitting because the "same old same old" doesn't cut it in a crowded MMORPG world.
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
I am not sure what forums you have been reading. But if you look through these forums and read many of the fanboys like myself who post you will see that many of us have concerns about the game and its development. Most of the fanboys here also understand that Vanguad is not a game for everyone. Rather its the last hope for many experienced hardcore gamers. Simply because someone likes or dislikes a games design doesn't mean they should be subjected to flames and called names.
I have no problem with you disliking Vanguards game design or your opinion that you think it will be a poor game. Vanguard is certainly not being made or targeted towards the masses. But what I find offensive about your post is the name calling, flaming and general immature tone of your post. Just because you have an opinion does not make it right or more important than that of anyone else who posts here. Your post looks and smells more like an attention seeking immature post rather than an actual discussion of what you don't like about Vanguard. Treat other people with respect and they are more likely to take your posts seriously.
okay i get it now, you attack anyone that doesn't agree with you or have the same play style as you? i think that is really childish.
and no, the raid gear wont be 3x better than everything els, don't believe me? read this quote from brad....
but i suppose hes lying right? and dude i cannot stand guildwars, but do you see me on their boards trolling trying to piss people off and generalizing their fans calling them "kids"? nooooo you don't.
why do you think that just because of some uber guild that i don't know or care about has anything to do with the true fan base of vanguard? like it will just be a few uberguilds and nobody els, do you realize how stupid that sounds? why do you generalize so much?
i mean other than the fact that i know you are just trying to troll and get people mad. but seriously, do you really believe the garbage you are writing?
read this http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044304#post1044304 then come back and talk to me about the vanguard/soe fiasco.....
Kid, in those forums we don't blast anyone who criticise Vanguard with genuine arguments.
But if you don't chill out and start being civilized, you will end up tasting some proper flaming.
There is nothing I enjoy more than "blasting" brain dead trolls.
Maybe it's me, but I'm very surprised at all the flaming going on about a game that's first in Beta, and second not even open to the majority of the fan base yet. Matter of fact is'nt there still a lock out of beta at the moment for all new people due to the switch from Microsoft to SOE? Personally I think that the majority of the issues people are having right now is that switch..................I have been playing SOE games since EQ 1, They have both ups and downs. SWG was a complete screw up, But EQ is going for 7 or 8 years now. EQ2 is not as bad as everyone tries to make it out to be. It's not WoW, that's for sure, But it's keeping my interest and i've played WoW, it's one of those games where you like it or you dont. I dont care for the disney animation in an MMO, i like the graphics of eq2, the game play is decent and it's definately gotten alot better over the last 2 years. I think people's biggest mistakes are they dont understand that these games evolve constantly, they are not ever done when released, not in the common sense anyway. You will always have things that were unexpected, It's the nature of the beast in mmo's. It's so common now that even games that you play on your own, such as Battle for Middle-Earth I and II get patches at times. Stuff comes up. So when you talking about a multi-facet game as an mmo...I'm not sure what people expect. I think when this game get's released there is going to need to be some apologies handed out in big numbers. Most of the people that are bashing it are prolly SOE haters or Blizzard fanboys that dont want to give another Company a chance to do something well. Apparently these guys know what they are doing cause they made a game that is still going after 7 years.
I wish you all well. Can't wait to see what you guys put out there. I'll play it. I've beta'd a few games they are buggy and glitchy, but it's cool to see it when they come back and fix those glitches and bugs.
Odenious
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
the vanboy forum community is horrible, horrible, horrible. they are a mindless mob of fanatical fanboism, zerging even the mildest criticism of game and showing an unhealthy religious-like adoration for brad and his retarded "vision".
Since you have such great idea's on what an MMO is supposed to be like, why dont you start designing one, make sure you make it so everyone on the planet that plays will like it, all styles of play should be addressed when you do. Hey, if you start tomorrow you might be done by 2016. All this bashing everyone is doing to a game that has yet to be released and that no one really knows anything about is out of hand. I play these games just like everyone else, i hop from game to game. When i dont like one i move to the next. you play Guildwars cause it's free, not cause you like it. I've played it......it was ok. It's not for me. But you dont see me here bashing the sh*t out of it either. The amount of time people spend bashing games, even prior to release is crazy. Raids suck...........I rarely have time to envolve myself with them. Does that mean i get less than great loot..........prolly. These games are not about the loot for me though, if that is what it is for others maybe they should find a different hobby then. Obviously this guy is pissed off at some one for something. And it's not really stated here, but I would bet my ass that it's cause he did'nt get into a good raiding guild in EQ 1, or he did and never got the good loot cause of someone else's needs. I played EQ1 and rarely got to particpate in large raids either, but i had alot of fun playing while i was there. Different strokes for different folks i guess.
Anywho, I have alot of hope for this game, I might be let down.......I might not. I'm definately not so big on the whole SOE thing being thrown into the mix. But like anything else it will be what it will be. It's all a big waiting game right now. They are still in Beta. and will be for another 6 months....atleast. who the hell really thinks the game should be anywhere near bug free right now??? All these games go live with bugs, it's the nature of the beast with an MMO. there are so many things that are not expected before you have 500,000 people log in, when your working with a few thousand beta testers how can you tell what's going to happen when you get large numbers doing several different things at the same time. You just don't know. I still want to see what this game looks like at release. Those of you that don't, why are you posting here anyway?? you trying to convince someone that you know more about the game than everyone else and that there is somewhere else we should invest our time in??? if so please, do tell. If it's anything like that disney game WoW though, save your breath. There are alot of things that i like about that game, but the disney characters killed it for me from the beginning.
just my more than 2 cents.
Odenious
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
the vanboy forum community is horrible, horrible, horrible. they are a mindless mob of fanatical fanboism, zerging even the mildest criticism of game and showing an unhealthy religious-like adoration for brad and his retarded "vision".
The Vanguard forums aren't nearly as bad as this site's forum has become. It used to be a place to find good information about current and soon to be released MMOs, now it is nothing but a lot of misinformation, trolls, SOE haters, and Eve lovers. I have been posting here a long time and the forums are sadly just a shadow of what they used to be.
I enjoy bashing Vanguard because so many whiners post. Anyone who posts anything that isn't another glowing "I love Vanguard" is bashed. Well I hate Vanguards fanbase and enjoy blasting them! You could be served (and will be) and big steaming pile of sh*t by Brad and will thank him. Well, accept the fact a whole bunch of people hate his guts too. Vanguard isn't that great, get over yourselves, he has devs quitting already, not surprising with that egomaniac Brad.
the vanboy forum community is horrible, horrible, horrible. they are a mindless mob of fanatical fanboism, zerging even the mildest criticism of game and showing an unhealthy religious-like adoration for brad and his retarded "vision".
The Vanguard forums aren't nearly as bad as this site's forum has become. It used to be a place to find good information about current and soon to be released MMOs, now it is nothing but a lot of misinformation, trolls, SOE haters, and Eve lovers. I have been posting here a long time and the forums are sadly just a shadow of what they used to be.
i disagree. on this forum, you learn what a horrible community Vanguard has. you also learn all the craptular features of the game that get shouted down in the vanboi forums. this forum is a far more objective and useful source of information. which is that people should stay away from this joke of an mmo.