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UPDATE: Crytek Files Copyright Infringement Suit, Cloud Imperium Responds - Star Citizen News

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
edited December 2017 in News & Features Discussion


UPDATE: Crytek Files Copyright Infringement Suit, Cloud Imperium Responds - Star Citizen - MMORPG.com

UPDATE: We have received a brief statement from Cloud Imperium Games about the recently filed legal documentation by Crytek:

From CIG…

We are aware of the Crytek complaint having been filed in the US District Court. CIG hasn’t used the CryEngine for quite some time since we switched to Amazon’s Lumberyard.  This is a meritless lawsuit that we will defend vigorously against, including recovering from Crytek  any costs incurred in this matter.

Star Citizen News - In a new twist in the always entertaining Star Citizen drama, Crytek has filed paperwork in California's Central District Court alleging that Cloud Imperium Games and Roberts Space Industries have infringed on its copyright by using CryEngine to create non-Star Citizen assets for use in Squadron 42.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


Post edited by SBFord on
WalkinGlennJamesGoblin
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Comments

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 749
    Well, this is awkward ...
    SBFordOctagon7711AlomarbarasawaScotty787SovrathwingoodPhry
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    This one's going to be more difficult to navigate, I think. The court documents lay out a pretty compelling argument for Crytek's allegations. This also isn't small potatoes Joe Smith asking for his refund either. Crytek's a force of its own which may prove problematic for RSI/CIG especially if all their money is tied up in development.
    [Deleted User]MadFrenchieMrMelGibsonAlomarScotty787EponyxDamorfitstarPhry


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • bartoni33bartoni33 Member RarePosts: 2,044
    Missed it by .................THAT much! ;)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7261710/

    Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.


  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    bartoni33 said:
    Missed it by .................THAT much! ;)

    https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/7261710/
    Probs were working on it simultaneously but I have to jump through a lot more hoops on the back end, I'd say. No matter -- discussion is all good :) Now it's in the news stream and out on RSS too!

    bartoni33MadFrenchieMrMelGibsonScotty787


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Hurray for crowdfunded money being used to settle legal issues due to bad management!
    Alomar[Deleted User]dinognGazimoffkikoodutroa8Scotty787WalkinGlennPsym0nPoppleMaxBacon
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Just because I know everyone is thinking it




    [Deleted User]MadFrenchieIselinMrMelGibsonSBFord[Deleted User]rojoArcueid[Deleted User]Scotty787wingoodand 1 other.

    Crazkanuk

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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    edited December 2017
    They are asking for a percentage of sales aren't they, which could be a lot more money.  Removing logos, pretty serious stuff which confirms possible intent. Refund problems, others may read about this and want to be added. Welcome to making their first MMO.
    Post edited by Octagon7711 on

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • azurreiazurrei Member UncommonPosts: 332
    Sounds like it's time to whip up some more digital spaceship 1's and 0's to sell to the suc.. *cough*, backers in order to pay for the lawsuit...
    MrMelGibsonOctagon7711EponyxDamorSBFordgearchin13beebop500GaladournScot
  • DattelisDattelis Member EpicPosts: 1,675
    This may sound like a stupid question but why are they using crowdfunding to work on 2 projects at the same time?
    adamlotus75
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    This is not the first time SC has played fast and loose with copyrighted material is it?

    But this time they did it to someone who can bite back.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

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    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited December 2017
    Talonsin said:
    Hurray for crowdfunded money being used to settle legal issues due to bad management!
    That does present a whole other strand of hairy to this: if the settlement or judgement rendered does say "CIG, you folks intentionally broke the agreement and as such you owe Crytek X amount of money" ...  Do backers owe that money?  Should CIG and the employees responsible pony up that cash separate of backer funds?

    If this does end in a settlement or judgement against CIG, it will be an important legal point for all crowdfunded projects to take note of.

    Personally feel that intentionally misleading or committing acts that would create such a liability should not be assessed against the fund pool backers have contributed.  If it could be reasonably decided that CIG acted out of innocent ignorance but still violated the agreement, backer money should be used to cover such settlements or judgements.

    image
  • AlomarAlomar Member RarePosts: 1,299
    What a joke, glad I haven't backed this shit show. So much potential and money wasted in all the wrong areas and directions.
    SignexbwwianakievWalkinGlennBruceYeebeebop500
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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Iselin said:
    This is not the first time SC has played fast and loose with copyrighted material is it?

    But this time they did it to someone who can bite back.
    Curious: what was the first?  I can vaguely remember something, but don't recall what specific item.

    As @SBFord mentioned, if the agreement reads how the doc implies it does, there seems to be at least one serious allegation (stand-alone game Crytek never gave CIG permission to use the engineer on).  If the underlying facts submitted in the document are accurate, the logo thing sounds pretty serious too, as it was an integral part of the agreement for ongoing discounted licensing fees.

    image
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 749
    edited December 2017
    Iselin said:
    This is not the first time SC has played fast and loose with copyrighted material is it?

    But this time they did it to someone who can bite back.
    Curious: what was the first?  I can vaguely remember something, but don't recall what specific item.

    As @SBFord mentioned, if the agreement reads how the doc implies it does, there seems to be at least one serious allegation (stand-alone game Crytek never gave CIG permission to use the engineer on).  If the underlying facts submitted in the document are accurate, the logo thing sounds pretty serious too, as it was an integral part of the agreement for ongoing discounted licensing fees.
    Using the image of an actor (or some pre-rendered art from another artist) for an in-game character model/video/portrait without permission, if I recall correctly. Can't remember the specifics.
    MadFrenchie
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    MadFrenchie said:
    Talonsin said:
    Hurray for crowdfunded money being used to settle legal issues due to bad management!
    That does present a whole other strand of hairy to this: if the settlement or judgement rendered does say "CIG, you folks intentionally broke the agreement and as such you owe Crytek X amount of money" ...  Do backers owe that money?  Should CIG and the employees responsible pony up that cash separate of backer funds?

    If this does end in a settlement or judgement against CIG, it will be an important legal point for all crowdfunded projects to take note of.

    Personally feel that intentionally misleading or committing acts that would create such a liability should not be assessed against the fund pool backers have contributed.  If it could be reasonably decided that CIG acted out of innocent ignorance but still violated the agreement, backer money should be used to cover such settlements or judgements.
    The company is being sued not the backers.  Most companies have funds set aside for legal fees and emergency reserves.  You know it's serious when a company starts laying people off and downsizing, until then it's just Wednesday and business as usual. IMO.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • JoeBloberJoeBlober Member RarePosts: 587
    edited December 2017

    Talonsin said:

    Hurray for crowdfunded money being used to settle legal issues due to bad management!



    That means nothing. Ortwin is an investor and well known Attorney. If you believe they did not read contracts, both from Crytek and Amazon you are missing the point. Crytek is dying and are seeking for cash. That will ends up without any court fight. Crytek has zero chance to win. The game is not even out... lets have some fun with this new drama :)
    FrodoFraginsPhoenix_HawkSirLornWraithone
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    Let's not get excited I'm sure whatever they pay out can be recouped with the sale of a few pictures of ships and sale of land on planets.
    AlomarScotty787AlexanderVendibeebop500

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I'm waiting for concepts of space stations to go on sale.
    AlexanderVendiBruceYeebeebop500

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited December 2017
    JoeBlober said:
    That means nothing. Ortwin is an investor and well known Attorney. If you believe they did not read contracts, both from Crytek and Amazon you are missing the point. Crytek is dying and are seeking for cash. That will ends up without any court fight. Crytek has zero chance to win. The game is not even out... lets have some fun with this new drama :)
    Crytek was through one huge domino collapse in the past times yes.

    I remember the news months ago about that Crytek Japanese studio people not being paid for up to 6 months that they just came to work one day and the doors were shut. Kinda messy.

    But remember they were saved by the Turkish gov by the amount I think up to 500 million. But it's pretty normal one opportunity to make money they'll sue.

    Just see the one over Ark Survival.
  • DaranarDaranar Member UncommonPosts: 392
    edited December 2017
    This is really interesting. And educational. I never knew contracts restricted developers from ever changing engines. I wonder what roll Amazon plays behind the scenes. Did Amazon know about the contract with CryEngine? Probably. Did they vow to pay any breach of contract settlements if SC moved it's development to Lumberyard. Possibly. Often times in worlds like the music industries, labels will poach artists even when they are in contract with another label and pay the damages for breach because it pays off. Though we may never learn if that's the case with Amazon.

    Also note that they are NOT suing for 75 grand. Everywhere it says 'substantially exceeds $75,000" whatever that might mean...

    If I want a world in which people can purchase success and power with cash, I'll play Real Life. Keep Virtual Worlds Virtual!


  • AeanderAeander Member LegendaryPosts: 8,061
    JoeBlober said:

    Crytek is dying and are seeking for cash.
    That's what this comes down to. Crytek haven't made a noteworthy, successful game this entire console generation. Their only real asset is the Crysis engine itself, and the engine has become less popular due to just being... well... not that great or versatile, from everything I've heard.
  • AreWeLiveAreWeLive Member UncommonPosts: 202
    Backers are not sales, those that funded the kick starter monies should not be involved, but the sale of ships and other packs are indeed sales and those funds would be income....course this is just IMO.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    MadFrenchie said:
    Talonsin said:
    Hurray for crowdfunded money being used to settle legal issues due to bad management!
    That does present a whole other strand of hairy to this: if the settlement or judgement rendered does say "CIG, you folks intentionally broke the agreement and as such you owe Crytek X amount of money" ...  Do backers owe that money?  Should CIG and the employees responsible pony up that cash separate of backer funds?

    If this does end in a settlement or judgement against CIG, it will be an important legal point for all crowdfunded projects to take note of.

    Personally feel that intentionally misleading or committing acts that would create such a liability should not be assessed against the fund pool backers have contributed.  If it could be reasonably decided that CIG acted out of innocent ignorance but still violated the agreement, backer money should be used to cover such settlements or judgements.
    1. Backers don't owe anyone anything. They already paid when they made their purchase, and won't need to pay extra no matter what happens.

    2. There is no special pool of backer money. After a backer transfers the money to CIG, it's CIG's and will be used to pay for CIG's expenses, including paying Crytek for possible damages

    3. CIG's owners, managers, and employees don't need to pay anything. In some cases it's possible that owner/manager/employee must pay compensation because they've caused damages, but that's normally only when someone has committed a crime or ignored their responsibilities. Making bad decision while working - even if those decision leads to the company breaking agreements - is not serious enough that you'd need to pay for those damages personally.
    [Deleted User]
     
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    MadFrenchie said:
    Iselin said:
    This is not the first time SC has played fast and loose with copyrighted material is it?

    But this time they did it to someone who can bite back.
    Curious: what was the first?  I can vaguely remember something, but don't recall what specific item.
    Star Citizen was found using some watermarked stock photos.

    Companies normally use watermarked stock photos when checking how something would look, then they pay for that asset and get it without a watermark if they want to use it in their product.

    It was never found out whether RSI used the photo intentionally without paying, or if it was just mistake.
     
  • randomtrandomt Member UncommonPosts: 1,220
    SQ42 is more like a single player campaign DLC to Star Citizen and not a separate game... I am sure there are other games out there with DLC campaigns.. right?
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