Originally posted by Poemaster The game is different and has a sesne of originality if you dont like the graphics go play DAOC or better L2
Well, with respect, World of Warcraft as far as I can see it, is very heavily influenced by Warhammer, the Games Workshop developed tabletop game that came out more than 20 years ago.
In terms of actual game play, WoW is pretty easy to get into, it's generally a fun experience and, if you can ignore the imature idiots spamming general, it's not a bad way to pass an evening.
However, it is MMORPG lite. By that I mean the depth and immersion are very surface deep (in my opinion of course ). It's set 4 years after the end of events in Warcraft III and yet we see little evidence of that conflict, especially if you choose to play on a PvE server.
Having said all of the above, I think WoW is perfect for people just starting out in the genre because it is so easy to get into. It has its faults - groups of only 5 people for starters, who on earth thought that was a good idea?
It also has some brilliant touches - an ingame postal system which pretty much stops the scammers in their tracks - no need to rely on someone else to transfer things between your characters. It has a well thought out quest system and quest log journal, so what if the quests are pretty much the same as in every other MMORPG, they manage to disguise that quite well.
PvP is another ball game altogether though. From my point of view, it just looks like its been tacked on as an afterthought, rather than it being the driving force behind the whole Alliance V Horde conflict. And, as someone else has said, the way the PvP rankings in the Battlegrounds work, means continual grinding for yourself only, not a combined effort to help your 'home' faction.
So, WoW worst MMORPG ever? No not by a long shot, but it's not the best either
Originally posted by nothing2gein If some idiot is annoying you just "Ignore" him. Makes more sense than bitching about the immature community when you can take care of it yourself.
I tried you recipe, it didn't work. People calling any graphics childish piss me off. What defines childish? To these people it's apparently anything different from the norm, i.e. "let's make this FANTASY game look as realistic as possible." Just because WoW has a different, more cartoony style doesn't make it childish by any means, in fact most people seem to like it because it's a farcry from the eq graphic formula and it's a lot easier on the eyes.
Yea well say that to all 5 million subscribers saying WoW is the worst game ever is pretty ignorent considering its popularity but you are entitled to your own opinion
Ok, I answered the poll above that this post gave me something to do while being bored at work.
What WoW did right. A rebuttal for the idiotic post of Vezstran.
I believe that when this time is passed and all that we do now is considered distant history, people will look back on this time in computer gaming and say, this is where it all started.
They would in that case be, strictly speaking, incorrect, but generally speaking they would be right. Much in the same way we are generally right by attributing sewers, long straight paved rodes and gladitorial combat to the Romans. We are of course, technically wrong, as it was the Etruscans who introduced the world to all of those things. None the less, due to the unquestionable impact of the romans themselves the items in question are attributed to what became known as the Roman Period.
We are now living in the WoW period. WoW did a lot right, this holds true whether you like the game or not.
What Vezstran called "childish graphics" I would call stylisticly influenced graphics, models, textures, themes which can trace thier digital roots all the way back to Warcraft 1. He criticizes the color pallet while totally failing to mention or appreciate how the color selection and clever model design has created a game that can run on virtually any moderatly powerful PC, not to mention Macs.
The artistic design of WoW fits its own lore and history in a way rarely seen in any game let alone MMOG. There are none available today with the wealth of "culture" that is found in WoW. One could quibble about model reuse, and how each level quintile finds a number of essentially similar creatures. Doing that though glosses over how well those creature types "fit" into thier respective environments. The pure, unalduturated feeling of majesty you get when entering a zone which is cohesive is simply something that exists in very few other games. The Barrens feel wide, wild, and at the same time tranquil and dusty. Felwood is compact, verdant and dangerous, etc. Vezstran complains about glitches, to him I say... Upgrade your videocard drivers (Noob).
Grindie-ness. Vezstran does have a bit of a point here, the point isnt so much a failing of WoW in specific as it is of the state of MMOs in general. There is a great deal of grinding in WoW, however, in my opinion WoWs grind is atleast managable by having rewarding and engaging questlines. In Wow grinding is more or less a state of mind, one encouraged by the general player driven feeling of "Levelasfastasyoucan-itis". Again not really a WoW failing insumuch as a general problems with level based MMOs.
He also whines about Boss respawn times, and how long it takes to get a whole guild equipped with (presumably) tier 2 gear. Thats true, but isnt it also true that tier 2 Epic gear is meant to be just that, Epic. Extremely difficult to attain. Due to the nature of an MMO difficulty more often than not is directly translated into a function of time. Hop through X amount of Hoops, X amount of times to acquire. Again, not so much a WoW specific problem as the norm of MMOs in general. This complaint can apply to any number of MMOs out today.
The player base complaint. Penny Arcade got it right. Anonimity + internet == asshat. WoW has the largest player population of any MMO, that being the case you will certainly encounter a fair number of asshats. The opposite is also true, and due to plain old human nature, you will run into far more decent players than you will asshats. If you run into a larger than normal number of asshats, it might be worth evaluating if there isnt something in your own online behaviour that just brings the little asshat in everyone out to the front! In anycase using player population to criticize a game is petty to say the least, and easily countered by grouping with decent folk.
Over creative complaint? Really I'll let you have that one, you simply seem to be unable to appreciate the artistic influences of the game. Warcraft 1,2,3, Starcraft, Diablo all have the same artistic influence and humor. You either get it, or you dont. Apparently Vezstran doesnt get it.
Pre-mature release? In my experiance WoW has been the tightest, cleanest, bug-free MMO, I have ever had the joy of playing. Blizzard support and operations have been outstanding, particularily if you consider the number of users they have. There have been multiple content patches, events, and holiday "stuff" since the begining.
Now has WoW been perfect? No, but it has been very very good. Biggest complaints I have had are ques for battlegrounds, they are stupid and dont work and login delays during peak times and after patches. Still, those are minor quibbles when compared to the problems routinely seen in other MMOs.
Good job blizzard, Still wishing for a Sci-Fi MMOG though.
New Term: WoWism- The belief that no other MMOs can equal World of Warcraft and that no other MMO should even be looked at if it isn't made by Blizzard.
Common symptoms-extreme fatigue. Loss of life. Loss of gaming skill. Branwashing until the sufferer may experience extreme acts of violence against friends for not liking WoW.
Ways to control this problem: gradually declining time spent on WoW and eventually going down to 2 hours a day maximum, interaction with other games that don't start with W and end with Craft, and spending time talking to the oppostie sex...No Myspace!
Originally posted by Baldophobic New Term: WoWism- The belief that no other MMOs can equal World of Warcraft and that no other MMO should even be looked at if it isn't made by Blizzard. Common symptoms-extreme fatigue. Loss of life. Loss of gaming skill. Branwashing until the sufferer may experience extreme acts of violence against friends for not liking WoW. Ways to control this problem: gradually declining time spent on WoW and eventually going down to 2 hours a day maximum, interaction with other games that don't start with W and end with Craft, and spending time talking to the oppostie sex...No Myspace! Highly seen in teenagers and gaming wannabes.World of Warcraft=Witchcraft
It works! Now I say Vorkraft instead! Actually, every MMO has its own "fans", look at the Lineage 2 kiddies, who say there are no better MMOs...
Originally posted by Bama1267 The only thing that sucks was your review.
It wasn't his review. He joined MMORPG.com to post someone else's character assasination of WoW. I burst out laughing because any review that lambasts Blizzard for all its bugs, and holds up SoE as a model company, must have looked up the definition of 'irony' from an Alanis Morrisette album sleeve.
It's so easy a monkey can probably play well in it. You can thank Blizzard for singlehandedly dumbed down the mmo genre with this game.
Agree.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Betrayal At Krondor: "the prime example of how a CRPG should be done"
WoW could have been so much better, there could have actually been great Wars for land or castles etc, siege and other nice pvp things to do. As it is i really dont like there end game at all
Originally posted by Poemaster Yea well say that to all 5 million subscribers saying WoW is the worst game ever is pretty ignorent considering its popularity but you are entitled to your own opinion
1.5 million are chinese farmers who pay 3$ per month to play it. And numbers are shrinking...
If the game is so easy, why is it when 5 strangers form up a PUG, it rarely is very sucessful? An easy game should allow anyone just to pick up and get the end boss every time? Utill a PUG is a 100% walk through every time, that pretty much proves its not THAT easy. PLaying by yourself is easy, but every MMORGP is easy to play when you take the easiest rout. Some are just more frustrating than others. Frustration doesn't make it hard, its just bad gameplay.
Well I haven't played for awhile now due to the end game PVP which seems to be for PvE players only.
The game NEEDS to be easy for one reason. Restarting.
The game is MENT to be casually played to 60.
The game is ment to be hardcore post 60.
Honestly they have perfected the game for casual players as much as they could.
Is it easy? Hell yes it is if your hardcore leveling fool who has alot of friends who will drop everything and help you out but think about what has been happening in EQ. Who in their right minds would EVER try to start in EQ without a guild's aid? No one but those few who are playing a mostly hybrid class (like a bard) has any chance of even seeing 60... maybe.. with ALOT of work. THAT is why WoW is easy when people hit 60 not everyone is gonna start over and there isn't always gonnabe enough people to raid with and even so some will outlevel you while others tend to level too slowly... so Blizzard allows MOST (not all sadly) classes to solo to 60 without alot of problems.
Now post 60 is really ment for the harcore. This is their reward for reaching the top level. They can go and get the best gear they can to be the best they can. The ONLY problem I have with this formula is what can a casual player do? ALOT of casuals played this game and absolutely LOVED it for it's content pre 60 but HATE the game post 60. Mind you the ONLY reason a casual player should give a darn about what hardcores are doing is due to one aspect of the game they are still sharing with their hardcore brethren.
P V P.
I have an idea for a solution for this. (PLEASE post this on the WOW forums if you like it.)
The one single idea I can think of since most hardcore either grind in instances (be it the raid or battleground content avalible) then the world pvp should be balanced for casual player pvp.
G A S P !
Let there be a set of gear one can aquire at level 60 that allows people to wear that MUST be used for world pvp on regular pve servers. (pvp servers MIGHT like to have the option of letting those who wear it on that sort of server being attacked ONLY by those also wearing it but *shrug* whatever.)
Think about it if anyone so hardcore wants to be the best of the best they can goto a PvP server and waste their lives away. Casuals do not have that luxury but want to enjoy some pvp without some Blizzard inspired can of whoop ass ruining it for everyone. Let the gear reflect the RTS warcraft series. Let people enjoy pvp for the sake of pvp and the skill required to win the day then because someone with PvE gear can totally destroy a casual none raider.
Post 60 casual pvp is the last great step they need to keep alot of players happy. Return world pvp. Let us all play for fun again.
QQ more you fucking noob. If you can't swallow the fact that WoW is simply one of the best MMORGPs made that has had the most success, then just go pick up another hobby.
Honestly, it has its faults simply due to the fact that with such a popular playerbase, the developers strive to appeal to everyone.
The niche is either left out or not happy. You=the niche. No big deal for anyone else, nor is it necessary you try and dump on a game such as WoW.
Originally posted by Josher If the game is so easy, why is it when 5 strangers form up a PUG, it rarely is very sucessful? An easy game should allow anyone just to pick up and get the end boss every time? Utill a PUG is a 100% walk through every time, that pretty much proves its not THAT easy. PLaying by yourself is easy, but every MMORGP is easy to play when you take the easiest rout. Some are just more frustrating than others. Frustration doesn't make it hard, its just bad gameplay.
pug MC/AQ20/ZG is non existent. Fails most of the time.
More than half of Blizzard's level 60 customers have not yet experienced their game game content. It is the perfect irony that they are adding new end game content every few months. You may ask who are the 60s that have not experience the game end content? Obviously the casual players. People with life have quitted and people who do not have a lot of time have quitted. The friends I met from playing WOW have suddenly stopped comming online. I wonder where they've go. More than half of them have stopped comming online and it's been 8 months. So all the casual players have left the game and you end up with people who are hardcore and have a lot of damn time. THat consist of people with part-time jobs, unstable jobs and the majority will be high school teens. They brag how much gear they have and it's just annoying to talk to one of these kids. They are stubborn and narrow minded and most of all a kid. I am a hardcore player and that is why I have my tier 1 and tier 2 set. I have experience the victory of defeating every single boss in WOW. That is because I spend a great deal of time playing WOW and also my fortune of being in a good raiding guild. Every server usually have only 3-5 top raiding guilds that is capable of killing every single boss. And then about 10 small guilds that is capable of killing everything in MC but maybe not rag. SO what are your chances of getting into the top guilds? Very minimal. They probably want you to raid everyday and be very active or you have at least your TIER 1 set. I was kicked from a top guild after getting my Tier 1 set because I have missed 3 raids. Another thing you should be aware of is that the bosses that drop good loots usually respawn once a week. And the bosses that will drop the items you can use is about 10 percent. And keep in mind there are 39 other people that raid with you and about 3 more people are the same class as you that need the gear as well. So statistically you need to raid quite often to equip yourself with the gear. You need to have tier 1 set before you can do BWL to get your tier 2 and aq 40. ZG and AQ20 is doable with some of your tier 1 or no tier 1. But these are the small guilds I was talking about so they probably will wipe very often and your chances of gearing yourself is small. Again, I have my teir 1 and teir 2 set... that is because I am in one of the top 3 guilds of my server and also I spend a lot of damn time into it. I might think to myself the grind is over... but wait I forgot Blizzard will add a new end game dugeon in a few months. The grind is not over!
emm ..... i think that every1 has it's own taste in games so maby u don't like wow but 6 million other ppl like it but it's still not a reason for saying that it sucks :S i have a 60 rogue and i enjoy playing wow, and i hope every1 will enjoy it aswell ^^
er.. just to respond to the epilepsy thing. I have it and i've been playing WoW for 3 months.. no signs of any shaking on the floor here :P although it might be that i've never actually had a seizure. only my twin brother has :P The docs just said i have it to.. we don't actually know that i do or not.. w/e.. just trying to proove a point that not everyone with it is so prone to having a seizure so easily.
Comments
In terms of actual game play, WoW is pretty easy to get into, it's generally a fun experience and, if you can ignore the imature idiots spamming general, it's not a bad way to pass an evening.
However, it is MMORPG lite. By that I mean the depth and immersion are very surface deep (in my opinion of course
Having said all of the above, I think WoW is perfect for people just starting out in the genre because it is so easy to get into. It has its faults - groups of only 5 people for starters, who on earth thought that was a good idea?
It also has some brilliant touches - an ingame postal system which pretty much stops the scammers in their tracks - no need to rely on someone else to transfer things between your characters. It has a well thought out quest system and quest log journal, so what if the quests are pretty much the same as in every other MMORPG, they manage to disguise that quite well.
PvP is another ball game altogether though. From my point of view, it just looks like its been tacked on as an afterthought, rather than it being the driving force behind the whole Alliance V Horde conflict. And, as someone else has said, the way the PvP rankings in the Battlegrounds work, means continual grinding for yourself only, not a combined effort to help your 'home' faction.
So, WoW worst MMORPG ever? No not by a long shot, but it's not the best either
*I am not a smurf*
/ignore nothing2gein
Ahh yes, much better.
Yay! This seems like a well thought out and insightful review. Wait... no it's just another trolling post.
True Neutral Half-Elf Ranger Mage
Follower Of Silvanus
Kings of Chaos! Free to play! Great PvP!
What WoW did right. A rebuttal for the idiotic post of Vezstran.
I believe that when this time is passed and all that we do now is considered distant history, people will look back on this time in computer gaming and say, this is where it all started.
They would in that case be, strictly speaking, incorrect, but generally speaking they would be right. Much in the same way we are generally right by attributing sewers, long straight paved rodes and gladitorial combat to the Romans. We are of course, technically wrong, as it was the Etruscans who introduced the world to all of those things. None the less, due to the unquestionable impact of the romans themselves the items in question are attributed to what became known as the Roman Period.
We are now living in the WoW period. WoW did a lot right, this holds true whether you like the game or not.
What Vezstran called "childish graphics" I would call stylisticly influenced graphics, models, textures, themes which can trace thier digital roots all the way back to Warcraft 1. He criticizes the color pallet while totally failing to mention or appreciate how the color selection and clever model design has created a game that can run on virtually any moderatly powerful PC, not to mention Macs.
The artistic design of WoW fits its own lore and history in a way rarely seen in any game let alone MMOG. There are none available today with the wealth of "culture" that is found in WoW. One could quibble about model reuse, and how each level quintile finds a number of essentially similar creatures. Doing that though glosses over how well those creature types "fit" into thier respective environments. The pure, unalduturated feeling of majesty you get when entering a zone which is cohesive is simply something that exists in very few other games. The Barrens feel wide, wild, and at the same time tranquil and dusty. Felwood is compact, verdant and dangerous, etc. Vezstran complains about glitches, to him I say... Upgrade your videocard drivers (Noob).
Grindie-ness. Vezstran does have a bit of a point here, the point isnt so much a failing of WoW in specific as it is of the state of MMOs in general. There is a great deal of grinding in WoW, however, in my opinion WoWs grind is atleast managable by having rewarding and engaging questlines. In Wow grinding is more or less a state of mind, one encouraged by the general player driven feeling of "Levelasfastasyoucan-itis". Again not really a WoW failing insumuch as a general problems with level based MMOs.
He also whines about Boss respawn times, and how long it takes to get a whole guild equipped with (presumably) tier 2 gear. Thats true, but isnt it also true that tier 2 Epic gear is meant to be just that, Epic. Extremely difficult to attain. Due to the nature of an MMO difficulty more often than not is directly translated into a function of time. Hop through X amount of Hoops, X amount of times to acquire. Again, not so much a WoW specific problem as the norm of MMOs in general. This complaint can apply to any number of MMOs out today.
The player base complaint. Penny Arcade got it right. Anonimity + internet == asshat. WoW has the largest player population of any MMO, that being the case you will certainly encounter a fair number of asshats. The opposite is also true, and due to plain old human nature, you will run into far more decent players than you will asshats. If you run into a larger than normal number of asshats, it might be worth evaluating if there isnt something in your own online behaviour that just brings the little asshat in everyone out to the front! In anycase using player population to criticize a game is petty to say the least, and easily countered by grouping with decent folk.
Over creative complaint? Really I'll let you have that one, you simply seem to be unable to appreciate the artistic influences of the game. Warcraft 1,2,3, Starcraft, Diablo all have the same artistic influence and humor. You either get it, or you dont. Apparently Vezstran doesnt get it.
Pre-mature release? In my experiance WoW has been the tightest, cleanest, bug-free MMO, I have ever had the joy of playing. Blizzard support and operations have been outstanding, particularily if you consider the number of users they have. There have been multiple content patches, events, and holiday "stuff" since the begining.
Now has WoW been perfect? No, but it has been very very good. Biggest complaints I have had are ques for battlegrounds, they are stupid and dont work and login delays during peak times and after patches. Still, those are minor quibbles when compared to the problems routinely seen in other MMOs.
Good job blizzard, Still wishing for a Sci-Fi MMOG though.
-Gooney
New Term: WoWism- The belief that no other MMOs can equal World of Warcraft and that no other MMO should even be looked at if it isn't made by Blizzard.
Common symptoms-extreme fatigue. Loss of life. Loss of gaming skill. Branwashing until the sufferer may experience extreme acts of violence against friends for not liking WoW.
Ways to control this problem: gradually declining time spent on WoW and eventually going down to 2 hours a day maximum, interaction with other games that don't start with W and end with Craft, and spending time talking to the oppostie sex...No Myspace!
Highly seen in teenagers and gaming wannabes.
World of Warcraft=Witchcraft
It works! Now I say Vorkraft instead! Actually, every MMO has its own "fans", look at the Lineage 2 kiddies, who say there are no better MMOs...
My screenshot gallery.
It wasn't his review. He joined MMORPG.com to post someone else's character assasination of WoW. I burst out laughing because any review that lambasts Blizzard for all its bugs, and holds up SoE as a model company, must have looked up the definition of 'irony' from an Alanis Morrisette album sleeve.
Regards,
Riotgirl
This thread delivers on the first page!
Agree.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Betrayal At Krondor: "the prime example of how a CRPG should be done"
WoW could have been so much better, there could have actually been great Wars for land or castles etc, siege and other nice pvp things to do. As it is i really dont like there end game at all
but thats just me
searching for the next DAoC....
Kay-exile
If u want to complain so much then just stop talking about it and dun play it!
If u want to complain so much then just stop talking about it and dun play it!
Well I haven't played for awhile now due to the end game PVP which seems to be for PvE players only.
The game NEEDS to be easy for one reason. Restarting.
The game is MENT to be casually played to 60.
The game is ment to be hardcore post 60.
Honestly they have perfected the game for casual players as much as they could.
Is it easy? Hell yes it is if your hardcore leveling fool who has alot of friends who will drop everything and help you out but think about what has been happening in EQ. Who in their right minds would EVER try to start in EQ without a guild's aid? No one but those few who are playing a mostly hybrid class (like a bard) has any chance of even seeing 60... maybe.. with ALOT of work. THAT is why WoW is easy when people hit 60 not everyone is gonna start over and there isn't always gonnabe enough people to raid with and even so some will outlevel you while others tend to level too slowly... so Blizzard allows MOST (not all sadly) classes to solo to 60 without alot of problems.
Now post 60 is really ment for the harcore. This is their reward for reaching the top level. They can go and get the best gear they can to be the best they can. The ONLY problem I have with this formula is what can a casual player do? ALOT of casuals played this game and absolutely LOVED it for it's content pre 60 but HATE the game post 60. Mind you the ONLY reason a casual player should give a darn about what hardcores are doing is due to one aspect of the game they are still sharing with their hardcore brethren.
I have an idea for a solution for this. (PLEASE post this on the WOW forums if you like it.)
The one single idea I can think of since most hardcore either grind in instances (be it the raid or battleground content avalible) then the world pvp should be balanced for casual player pvp.
Let there be a set of gear one can aquire at level 60 that allows people to wear that MUST be used for world pvp on regular pve servers. (pvp servers MIGHT like to have the option of letting those who wear it on that sort of server being attacked ONLY by those also wearing it but *shrug* whatever.)
Think about it if anyone so hardcore wants to be the best of the best they can goto a PvP server and waste their lives away. Casuals do not have that luxury but want to enjoy some pvp without some Blizzard inspired can of whoop ass ruining it for everyone. Let the gear reflect the RTS warcraft series. Let people enjoy pvp for the sake of pvp and the skill required to win the day then because someone with PvE gear can totally destroy a casual none raider.
Post 60 casual pvp is the last great step they need to keep alot of players happy. Return world pvp. Let us all play for fun again.
Realmreaver formally of EQ, SWG, FFXI and WoW.
Malis/Pirotess of PSO.
Some named of Diablo 1 and 2
Grendel Kinguard of GW.
Honestly, it has its faults simply due to the fact that with such a popular playerbase, the developers strive to appeal to everyone.
The niche is either left out or not happy. You=the niche. No big deal for anyone else, nor is it necessary you try and dump on a game such as WoW.
emm ..... i think that every1 has it's own taste in games so maby u don't like wow but 6 million other ppl like it but it's still not a reason for saying that it sucks :S
i have a 60 rogue and i enjoy playing wow, and i hope every1 will enjoy it aswell ^^
GO PLAY EQ2 WITH OTHER NOOBLETS CUZ WOW BEST GAME EVER & I MEAN EVER
WoW is definitely the best MMO there is at this time. However, that's not exactly a big accomplishment at the moment.
IE: WoW sucks, but it sucks well.