The DK has the worst class skills in the game.
I hate the flying fist because it gives you a mud suit that is ugly as hell.
I hate the dainty dan flame whip that looks and feels weak. Such a limp wrist whip crack.
I hate the healing skill that turns you clear with a beating heart.
I hate the banner ultimate because I hate banner skills.
I hate the claw swipe because it is pure dot with no feel of impact.
I hate the skill that gives you stupid looking spikes on your body.
The only skill I really like is the dragon leap ultimate, it has real impact and feels strong.
The DK needs a complete overhaul. I have to force myself to level my DK and am now doing all non class skills to avoid the terrible animations and feel of the DK class.
Matter of fact the only class I really enjoy playing is the Templar which has kick ass class skills.
I personally really dislike this zerg dungeon way, where everything is dps and heals all around. It is for that reason that i seriously dislike GW2 dungeons and trials. I much prefer strategic play that only holy trinity brings, not just individual placement and rotations.
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
I personally really dislike this zerg dungeon way, where everything is dps and heals all around. It is for that reason that i seriously dislike GW2 dungeons and trials. I much prefer strategic play that only holy trinity brings, not just individual placement and rotations.
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
The problem is that MMOs are all about mathematics. It makes the content faster and easier to play the classes that do the most damage per second. It might be fun for one person to play how they want but they can't expect to slow the whole group down for their own enjoyment that would be selfish.
This is an issue in most MMORPGs and is a "don't hate the player hate the game" situation. The game has to be fixed not the meta mindset.
I personally really dislike this zerg dungeon way, where everything is dps and heals all around. It is for that reason that i seriously dislike GW2 dungeons and trials. I much prefer strategic play that only holy trinity brings, not just individual placement and rotations.
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
I tend to agree because "playing your way" by definition is a solo play style. It's how I play ESO when I solo.
In group situations however it's no longer just about me, it's about what works for the group. If I'm there as DPS and I notice the healer is struggling I might want to slot a heal I wouldn't normally use.
The play style in groups doesn't have to be the meta but it does have to consider how to best contribute to the group. Doing it my own way is all well and good when it doesn't affect anyone else but groups are a whole different thing: they're about the group's success as well as their time, not just mine.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I personally really dislike this zerg dungeon way, where everything is dps and heals all around. It is for that reason that i seriously dislike GW2 dungeons and trials. I much prefer strategic play that only holy trinity brings, not just individual placement and rotations.
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
I tend to agree because "playing your way" by definition is a solo play style. It's how I play ESO when I solo.
In group situations however it's no longer just about me, it's about what works for the group. If I'm there as DPS and I notice the healer is struggling I might want to slot a heal I wouldn't normally use.
The play style in groups doesn't have to be the meta but it does have to consider how to best contribute to the group. Doing it my own way is all well and good when it doesn't affect anyone else but groups are a whole different thing: they're about the group's success as well as their time, not just mine.
While I generally agree with the above, build alone should not be the lone determinant as to whether or not a player should be kicked from a group. There are players who are skilled enough, regardless of build, whereas their inclusion would prove a greater benefit to a group than many with a so called "meta" build. A player should be judged on performance, not build. The notion that a player should be judged merely by their build, and insta-kicked based on a glance at their build, instead of proven skill and group/team performance, is what lends to the nasty elitism prevalent in modern MMO group sheep think mentality.
The time to kick a player from a group is when the player has been deemed incapable of helping the group via a lack in performance, not a player's specific build absent proven performance. In other words, skill will always trump build. Unfortunately, the evaluator of any one specific player's skill involves leadership and observation skill by that player's peers in the group. And it is this that is sorely lacking in today's group sheep think MMORPGs.
I personally really dislike this zerg dungeon way, where everything is dps and heals all around. It is for that reason that i seriously dislike GW2 dungeons and trials. I much prefer strategic play that only holy trinity brings, not just individual placement and rotations.
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
I tend to agree because "playing your way" by definition is a solo play style. It's how I play ESO when I solo.
In group situations however it's no longer just about me, it's about what works for the group. If I'm there as DPS and I notice the healer is struggling I might want to slot a heal I wouldn't normally use.
The play style in groups doesn't have to be the meta but it does have to consider how to best contribute to the group. Doing it my own way is all well and good when it doesn't affect anyone else but groups are a whole different thing: they're about the group's success as well as their time, not just mine.
While I generally agree with the above, build alone should not be the lone determinant as to whether or not a player should be kicked from a group. There are players who are skilled enough, regardless of build, whereas their inclusion would prove a greater benefit to a group than many with a so called "meta" build. A player should be judged on performance, not build. The notion that a player should be judged merely by their build, and insta-kicked based on a glance at their build, instead of proven skill and group/team performance, is what lends to the nasty elitism prevalent in modern MMO group sheep think mentality.
The time to kick a player from a group is when the player has been deemed incapable of helping the group via a lack in performance, not a player's specific build absent proven performance. In other words, skill will always trump build. Unfortunately, the evaluator of any one specific player's skill involves leadership and observation skill by that player's peers in the group. And it is this that is sorely lacking in today's group sheep think MMORPGs.
Kicking from groups is a whole other thing that, IMO, is done too easily especially in ESO where the level range for groupfinder dungeons is all the way from level 10 to CP 690 for normals. I have no problem with new players or under performing players in my groups and I try to help them not kick them.
Kicking in easy dungeon content should be reserved only for the anti social asshats, trolls or deliberate slackers who just come into the dungeon say nothing and stay parked at the entrance.
Veteran dungeons are a bit more demanding. Kicking there can be based on severe under performance and even in that case what happens more often than not is the rest of the group just grins and bears it and carries that guy.
The whole kick because you're not using the meta is an urban legend. I have never once seen that happen in 100s of dungeon runs...unless you think a tank with no taunt and a healer with no heals is a meta issue. That's a whole different thing: it's queue jumping by a DPS lying about what role he can do.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I personally really dislike this zerg dungeon way, where everything is dps and heals all around. It is for that reason that i seriously dislike GW2 dungeons and trials. I much prefer strategic play that only holy trinity brings, not just individual placement and rotations.
But I do acknowledge that its nice that there is a choice. If people like to play in trinity they should and if they like running thru dungeon they should.
However I do not like your "if there is no need, why use it" argument. It implies that people should play only what is needed and not what is fun for them, and that trinity is not wanted in majority of players.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
I tend to agree because "playing your way" by definition is a solo play style. It's how I play ESO when I solo.
In group situations however it's no longer just about me, it's about what works for the group. If I'm there as DPS and I notice the healer is struggling I might want to slot a heal I wouldn't normally use.
The play style in groups doesn't have to be the meta but it does have to consider how to best contribute to the group. Doing it my own way is all well and good when it doesn't affect anyone else but groups are a whole different thing: they're about the group's success as well as their time, not just mine.
While I generally agree with the above, build alone should not be the lone determinant as to whether or not a player should be kicked from a group. There are players who are skilled enough, regardless of build, whereas their inclusion would prove a greater benefit to a group than many with a so called "meta" build. A player should be judged on performance, not build. The notion that a player should be judged merely by their build, and insta-kicked based on a glance at their build, instead of proven skill and group/team performance, is what lends to the nasty elitism prevalent in modern MMO group sheep think mentality.
The time to kick a player from a group is when the player has been deemed incapable of helping the group via a lack in performance, not a player's specific build absent proven performance. In other words, skill will always trump build. Unfortunately, the evaluator of any one specific player's skill involves leadership and observation skill by that player's peers in the group. And it is this that is sorely lacking in today's group sheep think MMORPGs.
If some skills weren't better than others then yeah sure skill trumps build but in ESO some skills are greatly superior to others either because of damage and/or animation locks. If you have a guy in your veteran group that has chosen all the lowest damage skills with no synergy and is wearing the worst set of heavy armor as a dps then he is not beneficial to the group no matter how much "skill" he has cause damage output is based on math. In this game the individual players value to the group is based on being able to perform their role effectively and that is based on gear + build and by the time you've reached that point the skill part should be there.
Not sure if it was mentioned anywhere but the DK has good group support so if you're playing a dps DK if you swap out say the earthen fist w/heal or the ult that shields your whole group you can support quite well if healer isn't doing so well or if tank's hp drops low. There's a 2nd group shield as well.
Out of 14 characters I've only got 3 to 50 and two of them are DK, one all stam 2h/bow the other destruction staff magicka dps.
I tend to agree because "playing your way" by definition is a solo play style. It's how I play ESO when I solo.
In group situations however it's no longer just about me, it's about what works for the group. If I'm there as DPS and I notice the healer is struggling I might want to slot a heal I wouldn't normally use.
The play style in groups doesn't have to be the meta but it does have to consider how to best contribute to the group. Doing it my own way is all well and good when it doesn't affect anyone else but groups are a whole different thing: they're about the group's success as well as their time, not just mine.
While I generally agree with the above, build alone should not be the lone determinant as to whether or not a player should be kicked from a group. There are players who are skilled enough, regardless of build, whereas their inclusion would prove a greater benefit to a group than many with a so called "meta" build. A player should be judged on performance, not build. The notion that a player should be judged merely by their build, and insta-kicked based on a glance at their build, instead of proven skill and group/team performance, is what lends to the nasty elitism prevalent in modern MMO group sheep think mentality.
The time to kick a player from a group is when the player has been deemed incapable of helping the group via a lack in performance, not a player's specific build absent proven performance. In other words, skill will always trump build. Unfortunately, the evaluator of any one specific player's skill involves leadership and observation skill by that player's peers in the group. And it is this that is sorely lacking in today's group sheep think MMORPGs.
Kicking from groups is a whole other thing that, IMO, is done too easily especially in ESO where the level range for groupfinder dungeons is all the way from level 10 to CP 690 for normals. I have no problem with new players or under performing players in my groups and I try to help them not kick them.
Kicking in easy dungeon content should be reserved only for the anti social asshats, trolls or deliberate slackers who just come into the dungeon say nothing and stay parked at the entrance.
Veteran dungeons are a bit more demanding. Kicking there can be based on severe under performance and even in that case what happens more often than not is the rest of the group just grins and bears it and carries that guy.
The whole kick because you're not using the meta is an urban legend. I have never once seen that happen in 100s of dungeon runs...unless you think a tank with no taunt and a healer with no heals is a meta issue. That's a whole different thing: it's queue jumping by a DPS lying about what role he can do.
I was speaking in general terms but its good to hear that kicking players due to non-meta builds is an urban legend in ESO. Although I am a pretty competitive player, and I hold my own, the whole elitist dungeon group thinking that is currently prevalent in most MMO's rubs me the wrong way. I am the type that I would rather deal with a challenging dungeon run that kick a player from my group. It is only a game after all.
I had only gotten to level 20 or so before RL pulled me away but I do plan to jump back into ESO when things settle down a bit because I was really enjoying it before having to stop. That said, in perusing the boards i did run across one thread in which a group was complaining about being unable to kick a player from a group due to a glitch of some sort or whatever. You may have seen that thread in the ESO forums. Perhaps this an anomaly under rare circumstances. In any event, I am looking forward to playing again but I figure I might as well wait until update 17 is released before jumping back in.
The DK has the worst class skills in the game.
I hate the flying fist because it gives you a mud suit that is ugly as hell.
I hate the dainty dan flame whip that looks and feels weak. Such a limp wrist whip crack.
I hate the healing skill that turns you clear with a beating heart.
I hate the banner ultimate because I hate banner skills.
I hate the claw swipe because it is pure dot with no feel of impact.
I hate the skill that gives you stupid looking spikes on your body.
The only skill I really like is the dragon leap ultimate, it has real impact and feels strong.
The DK needs a complete overhaul. I have to force myself to level my DK and am now doing all non class skills to avoid the terrible animations and feel of the DK class.
Matter of fact the only class I really enjoy playing is the Templar which has kick ass class skills.
Lol, I made a DK mainly because the animations and skills on that class look so good/unique.
And I find magikca DK particularly fun because you basically just use all the class skills, which gives it a lot of flavor (stamina builds use a lot of the same skills no matter what your base class is).
As for the OP, when I am forced to pve I have found that having a good tank, healer and 2 strong dps has always made the job much easier. I can really feel the difference in Vet dungeons and IC if any one of those is lacking (although dungeon difficulty varies quite a bit; the newer ones tend to be very hard).
Comments
I hate the flying fist because it gives you a mud suit that is ugly as hell.
I hate the dainty dan flame whip that looks and feels weak. Such a limp wrist whip crack.
I hate the healing skill that turns you clear with a beating heart.
I hate the banner ultimate because I hate banner skills.
I hate the claw swipe because it is pure dot with no feel of impact.
I hate the skill that gives you stupid looking spikes on your body.
The only skill I really like is the dragon leap ultimate, it has real impact and feels strong.
The DK needs a complete overhaul. I have to force myself to level my DK and am now doing all non class skills to avoid the terrible animations and feel of the DK class.
Matter of fact the only class I really enjoy playing is the Templar which has kick ass class skills.
Best Magicka DPS - Sorc
Best Stamina DPS - Warden
Best Healer - Templar
Best Tank(Intention to do vet Trials, vet Dungeons) - DK.
Man this is the major problem with ESO. The whole meta build you better play this way or get kicked from the group. If you really want to play your way in ESO don't do group content.
The problem is that MMOs are all about mathematics. It makes the content faster and easier to play the classes that do the most damage per second. It might be fun for one person to play how they want but they can't expect to slow the whole group down for their own enjoyment that would be selfish.
This is an issue in most MMORPGs and is a "don't hate the player hate the game" situation. The game has to be fixed not the meta mindset.
In group situations however it's no longer just about me, it's about what works for the group. If I'm there as DPS and I notice the healer is struggling I might want to slot a heal I wouldn't normally use.
The play style in groups doesn't have to be the meta but it does have to consider how to best contribute to the group. Doing it my own way is all well and good when it doesn't affect anyone else but groups are a whole different thing: they're about the group's success as well as their time, not just mine.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
While I generally agree with the above, build alone should not be the lone determinant as to whether or not a player should be kicked from a group. There are players who are skilled enough, regardless of build, whereas their inclusion would prove a greater benefit to a group than many with a so called "meta" build. A player should be judged on performance, not build. The notion that a player should be judged merely by their build, and insta-kicked based on a glance at their build, instead of proven skill and group/team performance, is what lends to the nasty elitism prevalent in modern MMO group sheep think mentality.
The time to kick a player from a group is when the player has been deemed incapable of helping the group via a lack in performance, not a player's specific build absent proven performance. In other words, skill will always trump build. Unfortunately, the evaluator of any one specific player's skill involves leadership and observation skill by that player's peers in the group. And it is this that is sorely lacking in today's group sheep think MMORPGs.
Kicking in easy dungeon content should be reserved only for the anti social asshats, trolls or deliberate slackers who just come into the dungeon say nothing and stay parked at the entrance.
Veteran dungeons are a bit more demanding. Kicking there can be based on severe under performance and even in that case what happens more often than not is the rest of the group just grins and bears it and carries that guy.
The whole kick because you're not using the meta is an urban legend. I have never once seen that happen in 100s of dungeon runs...unless you think a tank with no taunt and a healer with no heals is a meta issue. That's a whole different thing: it's queue jumping by a DPS lying about what role he can do.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Not sure if it was mentioned anywhere but the DK has good group support so if you're playing a dps DK if you swap out say the earthen fist w/heal or the ult that shields your whole group you can support quite well if healer isn't doing so well or if tank's hp drops low. There's a 2nd group shield as well.
Out of 14 characters I've only got 3 to 50 and two of them are DK, one all stam 2h/bow the other destruction staff magicka dps.
I was speaking in general terms but its good to hear that kicking players due to non-meta builds is an urban legend in ESO. Although I am a pretty competitive player, and I hold my own, the whole elitist dungeon group thinking that is currently prevalent in most MMO's rubs me the wrong way. I am the type that I would rather deal with a challenging dungeon run that kick a player from my group. It is only a game after all.
I had only gotten to level 20 or so before RL pulled me away but I do plan to jump back into ESO when things settle down a bit because I was really enjoying it before having to stop. That said, in perusing the boards i did run across one thread in which a group was complaining about being unable to kick a player from a group due to a glitch of some sort or whatever. You may have seen that thread in the ESO forums. Perhaps this an anomaly under rare circumstances. In any event, I am looking forward to playing again but I figure I might as well wait until update 17 is released before jumping back in.
And I find magikca DK particularly fun because you basically just use all the class skills, which gives it a lot of flavor (stamina builds use a lot of the same skills no matter what your base class is).
As for the OP, when I am forced to pve I have found that having a good tank, healer and 2 strong dps has always made the job much easier. I can really feel the difference in Vet dungeons and IC if any one of those is lacking (although dungeon difficulty varies quite a bit; the newer ones tend to be very hard).