It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
Ever think maybe they are still working on that? they just started the change over a little bit ago, it's not like they dumped the OS system 2 years ago, iirc it was like 2 months ago.
Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but when I am in the middle of a project, nothing pisses me off more then some nosy shit who wants to know every little detail.
But that is me.
Maybe some people like that kind of attention.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
I think the problem is that they have gone backwards.
They started with the sword fight demo based on the Princess Bride They followed that up with the demo of the mine exploration Then they kind of started going off the rails with the "jousting" demo. A mini-game not part of the core promise. Now they show screenshots of a voxel based minecraft like client:
People like to see progression. The problem IMHO is that those first sword fight demos and mine exploration and even the Jousting one are just fluff with no foundation. I think they were stand alone demos, not demonstrating the actual game but more like concept art. Now it seems they are saying "We are actually going to start work on the real game so join us in this MUD".
People saw the earlier demos, thought they were representations of real progress and bought in. Now the above, recently revealed screenshot shows how little was done before and how far they still have to go.
Again- they only hired their lead designer in Oct 2017. That should tell you all you need to know.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
The irony of you calling out a strawman while you use a strawman is ridiculous.
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
I think the problem is that they have gone backwards.
They started with the sword fight demo based on the Princess Bride They followed that up with the demo of the mine exploration Then they kind of started going off the rails with the "jousting" demo. A mini-game not part of the core promise. Now they show screenshots of a voxel based minecraft like client:
People like to see progression. The problem IMHO is that those first sword fight demos and mine exploration and even the Jousting one are just fluff with no foundation. I think they were stand alone demos, not demonstrating the actual game but more like concept art. Now it seems they are saying "We are actually going to start work on the real game so join us in this MUD".
People saw the earlier demos, thought they were representations of real progress and bought in. Now the above, recently revealed screenshot shows how little was done before and how far they still have to go.
Again- they only hired their lead designer in Oct 2017. That should tell you all you need to know.
What they need to do is figure out who they're developing for. Either go full on Star Citizen and sell the Elyria equivalent of spaceship porn until they're swimming in money and it doesn't matter how far past their deadlines they get, or work on technical demos that will impress investors. A voxel client designed to re-implement most assets in the game and to fulfill a kickstarter promise just for testing a now non-existent back end does not look appealing. SBS needs to buckle down and determine who they want to appeal to, because backers and investors have very different wants and needs.
I totally agree that they need to be showing big leaps this year in development. By their own admission they should be moving toward an alpha on UE4, by the end of this year.
I don't think the Vox is a bad sign, I think it's quite the opposite. I can see why it looks like a step back, but this is always been part of the plan. Build/test things on Vox Elyria, an then transfer these things to the Alpha on UE4.
If we don't hear at least an Alpha date by the end of this year, that's a problem.
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
I think the problem is that they have gone backwards.
They started with the sword fight demo based on the Princess Bride They followed that up with the demo of the mine exploration Then they kind of started going off the rails with the "jousting" demo. A mini-game not part of the core promise. Now they show screenshots of a voxel based minecraft like client:
People like to see progression. The problem IMHO is that those first sword fight demos and mine exploration and even the Jousting one are just fluff with no foundation. I think they were stand alone demos, not demonstrating the actual game but more like concept art. Now it seems they are saying "We are actually going to start work on the real game so join us in this MUD".
People saw the earlier demos, thought they were representations of real progress and bought in. Now the above, recently revealed screenshot shows how little was done before and how far they still have to go.
Again- they only hired their lead designer in Oct 2017. That should tell you all you need to know.
What they need to do is figure out who they're developing for. Either go full on Star Citizen and sell the Elyria equivalent of spaceship porn until they're swimming in money and it doesn't matter how far past their deadlines they get, or work on technical demos that will impress investors. A voxel client designed to re-implement most assets in the game and to fulfill a kickstarter promise just for testing a now non-existent back end does not look appealing. SBS needs to buckle down and determine who they want to appeal to, because backers and investors have very different wants and needs.
That's what I keep saying, go full monty on the cash shop sales, especially post launch and investors will be far more interested.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I totally agree that they need to be showing big leaps this year in development. By their own admission they should be moving toward an alpha on UE4, by the end of this year.
I don't think the Vox is a bad sign, I think it's quite the opposite. I can see why it looks like a step back, but this is always been part of the plan. Build/test things on Vox Elyria, an then transfer these things to the Alpha on UE4.
If we don't hear at least an Alpha date by the end of this year, that's a problem.
Here is their most recent, updated schedule (if there has been an update please advise):
V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
Server Selection (T1 2018)
Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
KoE (T2 2018)
Design Experiences (T3 2018)
Alpha 2 (T3 2018)
Beta 1 (S1 2019)
Prologue & CoE Adventure Toolkit (S1 2019)
Exposition (S1 2019)
Beta 2 (S1/S2 2019)
Stress Test (Any paid account)(S2 2019)
Launch (S2 2019)
That was the list published the July 2017. It's now Feb 2018. By their own schedule they should be doing far more than "moving toward an alpha on UE4 by the end of the year".
First we were supposed to be playing the game now. Then Alpha 1 was supposed to be worked on in the beginning of this year (now). Now you would just accept a date by the end of the year?
Come on man.. they need to do better than that. At the very least you should be asking them for an updated and realistic timeline. If you can see that their timeline is wrong, so can they...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Which the date, by the kickstarter TOS, is not a guaranteed date... As shown here...
“The Estimated Delivery Date is the creator’s estimate. The date listed on each reward is the creator’s estimate of when they will provide the reward — not a guarantee to fulfill by that date. The schedule may change as the creator works on the project.”
And, no I think there is a 0% chance that you could use "market research" to file a claim against them. You would honestly need proof that they, themselves knew there was no possibility of them releasing the game on time. THey would say, "We believed a new tech called spatial OS would allow us to create our game, extremely quickly, and we underestimated the time it would take to hire a competent staff". THey would point to the multiple times they've said this.
And yet again you completely miss the point. The point is, contrary to what some would have you believe when defending these crowdfunded MMORPGs, the pledge or donation moniker matters little to the courts, they apply the same sort of scrutiny they would any other business: if you misrepresent or mislead the customer, you can be liable for refunding them, through lawsuit if needed.
Crowdfunding isn't a charitable donation. It's a money exchange for a known return, one that's listed at the time the money changes hands. If the seller did something that misleads the customer into purchasing, the law will not throw its hands up and go "oh well, you donated!"
Yet we can't seem to find many, if any actual court decisions or laws governing crowd funded efforts, particularly with regards to clear policies of "no refunds" or "deposits."
As mentioned before, precision in terminology is of key importance as shown in the one example provided, the judge found for the plaintiff as it was on "order' and not a donation.
See screenshots from D,eatherus which clearly use word Purchase. Not donation.
Yes.. but you would have to prove you mislead them.. not that you made a mistake.
See if I am going to sell you a clock, and say "Yah I can make you the clock in 3 days", and then on day 2, I drop the damn thing, and now need to order new parts and all kinds of other problems , so I say "due to unfortunate circumstances, delivery will be delayed for 10 days" I am not misleading you.
If the delivery truck then sends me the wrong or parts.. and I get delayed again because of that.. and tell you this.. again.. I am not misleading you.
Now, realistically, you might want a refund at this point, because you don't want to wait for the clock. I respect that.
But... under no circumstance did I mislead you or falsely advertised my product.. things happened that delayed production, that kind of stuff happens in real life.
No. The point is that if it's a purchase and not a donation that it should fall under the FCC rules which I posted. The company referring to it as a purchase is important. As Kyleran has stated "precision in terminology is of key importance". IMHO if it is a purchase then the FCC rules apply which means no open ended delivery dates. If a date is not given it defaults to 30 days. If a date is given and not reached, refunds MUST be given. Heck, it says the consumer doesn't even have to ask for them... that the default is that the company must refund unless explicitly told otherwise.
Edit: Also, remember the estimated delivery date. Was it misleading? If you are saying that you always knew it was unrealistic then you answered your own question. When people questioned the validity of the date it was vigorously defended. Now 18 months turns to 42 or so. Whether you personally believe ill intent or not, I don't think it can be disputed that there could be a case about that being misleading.
Again though... as far as I know nobody in this thread is considering a refund. If you are... speak up! If not, let's put it to bed for a few weeks. Trust me, you will all have a chance to say the same thing a few more times in a few weeks.
Do you work?
This is an honest question, but do you do any project work at all?
It's quite obvious where you're going with this, and it's been tried before. To counter:
Name me one MMORPG project in the world that was completed in two years. Name me one that went from inception to a full-featured beta test in two years, even. Don't worry; I'll wait.
Star Trek Online is one of the fastest. First announced by Cryptic in July 2008, it launched in Feb 2010, in a little under 2 years.
Not done yet, Wild West Online came out of no where in May of 2017, with a promised delivery date of end of 2017.
They've missed their dates so far of course, (but who doesn't?) though there's been a few alpha rounds, and their delivery roadmap shows Spring 2018 for Steam launch, whatever that really means these days.
You posted these knowing that traditionally published titles aren't announced until they've been in development, usually for years.
Chronicles of Elyria had a fancy video and design docs at the time of Kickstarter. Absolutely isn't the same thing, and I'm not sure why you posted those examples, because I know that you know that.
I totally agree that they need to be showing big leaps this year in development. By their own admission they should be moving toward an alpha on UE4, by the end of this year.
I don't think the Vox is a bad sign, I think it's quite the opposite. I can see why it looks like a step back, but this is always been part of the plan. Build/test things on Vox Elyria, an then transfer these things to the Alpha on UE4.
If we don't hear at least an Alpha date by the end of this year, that's a problem.
Here is their most recent, updated schedule (if there has been an update please advise):
V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
Server Selection (T1 2018)
Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
KoE (T2 2018)
Design Experiences (T3 2018)
Alpha 2 (T3 2018)
Beta 1 (S1 2019)
Prologue & CoE Adventure Toolkit (S1 2019)
Exposition (S1 2019)
Beta 2 (S1/S2 2019)
Stress Test (Any paid account)(S2 2019)
Launch (S2 2019)
That was the list published the July 2017. It's now Feb 2018. By their own schedule they should be doing far more than "moving toward an alpha on UE4 by the end of the year".
First we were supposed to be playing the game now. Then Alpha 1 was supposed to be worked on in the beginning of this year (now). Now you would just accept a date by the end of the year?
Come on man.. they need to do better than that. At the very least you should be asking them for an updated and realistic timeline. If you can see that their timeline is wrong, so can they...
I guess when it comes down to it man, I really don't care how long the game takes to make, as long as it gets made, and is good. The bigger concerns I have, is them getting additional investors, backers and/or a publisher that is willing to give them creative control, and not having to resort to a payment style that doesn't fit with the concept of CoE. Unless they give me a firm date and miss that (which they have in the past) I'm not really gonna care. Delays are just a nature of the game industry, have been part of it my entire life.
I don't need them to update the timeline every 6 months. And TBH this is the exact reason why most games don't give timelines after the initial kickstarter. It just ends up being bad PR.
When I joined.. you all accused me of being someone else..so that is all on you.. you and your fellow harbinger are not, or were you ever the victims in this exchange..
Stop lying already. That wasn't them - that was me. ME ME ME ME ME! Get it in your head!
That is why I said "You and your fellow harbingers" unless now you are denying that you are a Harbinger?
You said "you all accused me" No one did but I.
When you are part of a group.. you rep the group, and everyone else in it rises and falls by your shitty actions.
You mean like you being an awesome representative for the CoE community?
Either way your interpretation of "you all" makes no sense. Another lie like most of the things you say.
No.. see you have claimed to be a Harbinger, and thus a part of that community/organization and thus are a representative of them. Your actions reflect on all of them.
I on the other hand, have never claimed to be apart of the "COE Community" and in fact, I have made it clear I have no affiliations to the game, community, and am not even a backer.
I am just a random gamer that kinda likes what this game poses to offer, which means, my actions are mine alone.
Now, so far you have shown me, you can't follow a topic, you can't read a post, shall you not understanding this to that list of things you fail at and make a wonderful example that Harbingers are on reality just a bunch of clueless nerd-ragers on a forums.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
I think the problem is that they have gone backwards.
They started with the sword fight demo based on the Princess Bride They followed that up with the demo of the mine exploration Then they kind of started going off the rails with the "jousting" demo. A mini-game not part of the core promise. Now they show screenshots of a voxel based minecraft like client:
People like to see progression. The problem IMHO is that those first sword fight demos and mine exploration and even the Jousting one are just fluff with no foundation. I think they were stand alone demos, not demonstrating the actual game but more like concept art. Now it seems they are saying "We are actually going to start work on the real game so join us in this MUD".
People saw the earlier demos, thought they were representations of real progress and bought in. Now the above, recently revealed screenshot shows how little was done before and how far they still have to go.
Again- they only hired their lead designer in Oct 2017. That should tell you all you need to know.
What they need to do is figure out who they're developing for. Either go full on Star Citizen and sell the Elyria equivalent of spaceship porn until they're swimming in money and it doesn't matter how far past their deadlines they get, or work on technical demos that will impress investors. A voxel client designed to re-implement most assets in the game and to fulfill a kickstarter promise just for testing a now non-existent back end does not look appealing. SBS needs to buckle down and determine who they want to appeal to, because backers and investors have very different wants and needs.
That's what I keep saying, go full monty on the cash shop sales, especially post launch and investors will be far more interested.
I believe I said that before you.. but.. I could be wrong.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
When I joined.. you all accused me of being someone else..so that is all on you.. you and your fellow harbinger are not, or were you ever the victims in this exchange..
Stop lying already. That wasn't them - that was me. ME ME ME ME ME! Get it in your head!
That is why I said "You and your fellow harbingers" unless now you are denying that you are a Harbinger?
You said "you all accused me" No one did but I.
When you are part of a group.. you rep the group, and everyone else in it rises and falls by your shitty actions.
You mean like you being an awesome representative for the CoE community?
Either way your interpretation of "you all" makes no sense. Another lie like most of the things you say.
No.. see you have claimed to be a Harbinger, and thus a part of that community/organization and thus are a representative of them. Your actions reflect on all of them.
I on the other hand, have never claimed to be apart of the "COE Community" and in fact, I have made it clear I have no affiliations to the game, community, and am not even a backer.
I am just a random gamer that kinda likes what this game poses to offer, which means, my actions are mine alone.
Now, so far you have shown me, you can't follow a topic, you can't read a post, shall you not understanding this to that list of things you fail at and make a wonderful example that Harbingers are on reality just a bunch of clueless nerd-ragers on a forums.
We believe you. Really!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It seems you CoE fans need to be constantly reminded, this isn't about being behind schedule. It's about having nothing to show for the time they've had. When other projects mentioned in this thread were behind schedule (or still are) they were constantly trying to show everyone they were still doing work..
On the other hand CoE seems to doing everything they can to avoid showing their work, while hoping for funding. The thing is no one is going to invest if there's currently no fruits from the 2+ years of labor.
Are you guys going to continue to play strawman bullshit? Or are you going to hold Walsh's feet to the fire and start demanding something get done?
I guess we will just have to disagree on the definition of "nothing"
As the last time I went to his site, I saw all kinds of 'in-game" footage videos, and Screenshots showing all kinds of features.. not what I would call nothing, but YMMV.
Screenshots are all well and good but, I'd much rather have some actual technical details on what they are doing with this supposed SpacialOS copy. Or just anything involving the "backend" they like to mention so much. Screenshots tell us nothing about performance, if all we needed were screenshots Daybreak would still be "developing" EQ:Next.
I think the problem is that they have gone backwards.
They started with the sword fight demo based on the Princess Bride They followed that up with the demo of the mine exploration Then they kind of started going off the rails with the "jousting" demo. A mini-game not part of the core promise. Now they show screenshots of a voxel based minecraft like client:
People like to see progression. The problem IMHO is that those first sword fight demos and mine exploration and even the Jousting one are just fluff with no foundation. I think they were stand alone demos, not demonstrating the actual game but more like concept art. Now it seems they are saying "We are actually going to start work on the real game so join us in this MUD".
People saw the earlier demos, thought they were representations of real progress and bought in. Now the above, recently revealed screenshot shows how little was done before and how far they still have to go.
Again- they only hired their lead designer in Oct 2017. That should tell you all you need to know.
What they need to do is figure out who they're developing for. Either go full on Star Citizen and sell the Elyria equivalent of spaceship porn until they're swimming in money and it doesn't matter how far past their deadlines they get, or work on technical demos that will impress investors. A voxel client designed to re-implement most assets in the game and to fulfill a kickstarter promise just for testing a now non-existent back end does not look appealing. SBS needs to buckle down and determine who they want to appeal to, because backers and investors have very different wants and needs.
That's what I keep saying, go full monty on the cash shop sales, especially post launch and investors will be far more interested.
I believe I said that before you.. but.. I could be wrong.
Yes you could, "full monty" is practically a trademark of mine when discussing COE funding.
Tell you what, let's just share it, deal?
We actually agree on several points which we believe would help in this games success; just vary in our approach.
You can continue to be the "bad cop" and I'll continue my role as the "good (looking) cop."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I on the other hand, have never claimed to be apart of the "COE Community" and in fact, I have made it clear I have no affiliations to the game, community, and am not even a backer.
And I have called this a lie the moment you joined this forum.
I on the other hand, have never claimed to be apart of the "COE Community" and in fact, I have made it clear I have no affiliations to the game, community, and am not even a backer.
And I have called this a lie the moment you joined this forum.
and you have been wrong about that since the moment I joined the forums.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Then again, we still haven't discussed world hunger, the meddling of the Russians and several other interesting things in this thread so I predict at least 1k more of quality posts. How is the state of the studio btw?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Post edited by lahnmir on
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Ungood said: If say, we knew that he thought that he was stating from a much further along time line, (maybe due to work he had already done on his own for example) that would allow us to understand...
...and like I said before, it wouldn't, because you are not a programmer therefore you cannot evaluate the basis of the projection - how much is done, what needs to be done and how much resources it will take.
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
Ungood said: If say, we knew that he thought that he was stating from a much further along time line, (maybe due to work he had already done on his own for example) that would allow us to understand...
...and like I said before, it wouldn't, because you are not a programmer therefore you cannot evaluate the basis of the projection - how much is done, what needs to be done and how much resources it will take.
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
That is a ridiculous concept. This is a much simpler one:
Hold people accountable for what THEY say and promise. If the home builder says they will do X in Y time then expect them to do it. If the caterer says they will have X food prepared at Y time then expect the, to do it. If the programmer says they will do X in Y time then expect him to do it.
Shit happens in any profession. That’s why the “professionals” get paid.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ungood said: If say, we knew that he thought that he was stating from a much further along time line, (maybe due to work he had already done on his own for example) that would allow us to understand...
...and like I said before, it wouldn't, because you are not a programmer therefore you cannot evaluate the basis of the projection - how much is done, what needs to be done and how much resources it will take.
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
That is a ridiculous concept. This is a much simpler one:
Hold people accountable for what THEY say and promise. If the home builder says they will do X in Y time then expect them to do it. If the caterer says they will have X food prepared at Y time then expect the, to do it. If the programmer says they will do X in Y time then expect him to do it.
Shit happens in any profession. That’s why the “professionals” get paid.
I don't think that analogy holds water at all. Programming is a much less precise, and predictable profession than building a house. And come on you know that...
1. Give dates too early, and they'll more than likely be wrong...
or
2. Don't give dates and everyone will complain about a lack of a road map.
Again, I just don't care if they're late on their projections. As long as the game comes out.
In MY experience, you got 2 options:
1. Promise the earliest date you think you can get away with, so that you can raise the most amount of money from KS pre-orders. Then change the timeline a year after you've collected the money, so it's too late for refunds.
2. Tell the truth, even if it means you risk your project not funding.
When I joined.. you all accused me of being someone else..so that is all on you.. you and your fellow harbinger are not, or were you ever the victims in this exchange..
Stop lying already. That wasn't them - that was me. ME ME ME ME ME! Get it in your head!
That is why I said "You and your fellow harbingers" unless now you are denying that you are a Harbinger?
You said "you all accused me" No one did but I.
When you are part of a group.. you rep the group, and everyone else in it rises and falls by your shitty actions.
You mean like you being an awesome representative for the CoE community?
Either way your interpretation of "you all" makes no sense. Another lie like most of the things you say.
No.. see you have claimed to be a Harbinger, and thus a part of that community/organization and thus are a representative of them. Your actions reflect on all of them.
I on the other hand, have never claimed to be apart of the "COE Community" and in fact, I have made it clear I have no affiliations to the game, community, and am not even a backer.
I am just a random gamer that kinda likes what this game poses to offer, which means, my actions are mine alone.
Now, so far you have shown me, you can't follow a topic, you can't read a post, shall you not understanding this to that list of things you fail at and make a wonderful example that Harbingers are on reality just a bunch of clueless nerd-ragers on a forums.
We believe you. Really!
Oh I missed this.. so will this be you going on record now, of being wrong about this?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
1. Give dates too early, and they'll more than likely be wrong...
or
2. Don't give dates and everyone will complain about a lack of a road map.
Again, I just don't care if they're late on their projections. As long as the game comes out.
In MY experience, you got 2 options:
1. Promise the earliest date you think you can get away with, so that you can raise the most amount of money from KS pre-orders. Then change the timeline a year after you've collected the money, so it's too late for refunds.
2. Tell the truth, even if it means you risk your project not funding.
There are actually folks who will argue that going number two means they won't get the funding, so that makes it okay to go route number one.
Comments
Now, I can't speak for anyone else, but when I am in the middle of a project, nothing pisses me off more then some nosy shit who wants to know every little detail.
But that is me.
Maybe some people like that kind of attention.
They started with the sword fight demo based on the Princess Bride
They followed that up with the demo of the mine exploration
Then they kind of started going off the rails with the "jousting" demo. A mini-game not part of the core promise.
Now they show screenshots of a voxel based minecraft like client:
People like to see progression. The problem IMHO is that those first sword fight demos and mine exploration and even the Jousting one are just fluff with no foundation. I think they were stand alone demos, not demonstrating the actual game but more like concept art. Now it seems they are saying "We are actually going to start work on the real game so join us in this MUD".
People saw the earlier demos, thought they were representations of real progress and bought in. Now the above, recently revealed screenshot shows how little was done before and how far they still have to go.
Again- they only hired their lead designer in Oct 2017. That should tell you all you need to know.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't think the Vox is a bad sign, I think it's quite the opposite. I can see why it looks like a step back, but this is always been part of the plan. Build/test things on Vox Elyria, an then transfer these things to the Alpha on UE4.
If we don't hear at least an Alpha date by the end of this year, that's a problem.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
That was the list published the July 2017. It's now Feb 2018. By their own schedule they should be doing far more than "moving toward an alpha on UE4 by the end of the year".
First we were supposed to be playing the game now. Then Alpha 1 was supposed to be worked on in the beginning of this year (now). Now you would just accept a date by the end of the year?
Come on man.. they need to do better than that. At the very least you should be asking them for an updated and realistic timeline. If you can see that their timeline is wrong, so can they...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Chronicles of Elyria had a fancy video and design docs at the time of Kickstarter. Absolutely isn't the same thing, and I'm not sure why you posted those examples, because I know that you know that.
I don't need them to update the timeline every 6 months. And TBH this is the exact reason why most games don't give timelines after the initial kickstarter. It just ends up being bad PR.
I on the other hand, have never claimed to be apart of the "COE Community" and in fact, I have made it clear I have no affiliations to the game, community, and am not even a backer.
I am just a random gamer that kinda likes what this game poses to offer, which means, my actions are mine alone.
Now, so far you have shown me, you can't follow a topic, you can't read a post, shall you not understanding this to that list of things you fail at and make a wonderful example that Harbingers are on reality just a bunch of clueless nerd-ragers on a forums.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Tell you what, let's just share it, deal?
We actually agree on several points which we believe would help in this games success; just vary in our approach.
You can continue to be the "bad cop" and I'll continue my role as the "good (looking) cop."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Then again, we still haven't discussed world hunger, the meddling of the Russians and several other interesting things in this thread so I predict at least 1k more of quality posts. How is the state of the studio btw?
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Trying to judge projects from outsider perspective is simply put, stupid. More qualification and experience you have, less likely you are going to do it...
Hold people accountable for what THEY say and promise. If the home builder says they will do X in Y time then expect them to do it. If the caterer says they will have X food prepared at Y time then expect the, to do it. If the programmer says they will do X in Y time then expect him to do it.
Shit happens in any profession. That’s why the “professionals” get paid.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1. Give dates too early, and they'll more than likely be wrong...
or
2. Don't give dates and everyone will complain about a lack of a road map.
Again, I just don't care if they're late on their projections. As long as the game comes out.
1. Promise the earliest date you think you can get away with, so that you can raise the most amount of money from KS pre-orders. Then change the timeline a year after you've collected the money, so it's too late for refunds.
2. Tell the truth, even if it means you risk your project not funding.
It's mind-boggling.