Haven't you ever seen a sensitivity analysis or other financial risk assessment tool? Figuring out whether a share is adequately priced involves, in part, evaluating the riskiness of the cash flow. In part that's what a financial analyst is doing when he is analysing whether to recommend "buy", "sell" or "hold" relating to a particular share. Certainly any financial analyst worth his salt takes a vibrant interest in any "concentrations" of cash flow, whether relating to a specific market, customer or product, in assessing the riskiness of the revenue stream, and hence the real "quality" of the earnings.
Not relevant. NCsoft has assets and markets in many countries all over the world, all of them politically and economically stable. Many of them in high growth areas.
I don't evaluaute shares value by their "revenue streams", I value them by their assets. That which can be physically sold to recuperate my investment if the company fails.
Riskyness of the cashflow, concentration of revenue streams are all totally irrelevant, what matters is whether or not the shares are going to go up, and what returns you will see on your investment while it being used. (Dividend).
In the case of a video games company share price will go up when investors smell a hit game. The idea is to smell it first. buy it, and then sell it before everyone else too.
If a "financial analyst" said anything like that kind of nonsense to me, he wouldn't get paid.
Originally posted by JimLad Originally posted by Elnator You might want to actually play games before talking about them.
Lineage II is not instanced at all. Which proves you a) have never even tried the game and b) have probably not even bothered to read the blurb about it on this site or you'd know that. Auto Assault is *NOTHING* like "WoW". I'm sorry, I haven't even PLAYED the game and I know that much just from reading about it.
lol, you just shot yourself in the foot there matey. You judge me for not playing Lineage II and rating it yet you admit to not playing Auto Assault and saying I'm wrong when I have played it. It's not like WoW in the most obvious way that most people like yourself see it. It is like WoW however in the way that others realise, which is you basically do the same stuff, almost in the same way but a little differently. You customise a shiney car and avatar and then... quest. Quest to get more shiney stuff to put on your car and gain more levels. The combat is auto targeted and dice rolled which I felt was a massive waste. See I actually followed this game from last summer and was suddenly hit with reality by finding it was a lot more boring than I had envisioned.
On a different note I have to say I have made a complete arse of myself yet again, when I said Lineage II, I actually meant Guild Wars lmao (always get those names mixed up for some reason). Sorry about that, I have played Lineage II, only a little so I won't pass judgement on it.
One thing that bugs me alot about MMORPGer's today is that they compare EVERY damn game to WoW. Why WoW? because it's popular for a little bit? WoW wasn't even close to being the first MMO ever. I wish people would compare the MMORPG's with MMO's of yesterday. . .like UO, EQ1, or AC. These games gave us your "WoW" and your EQ2. I guarantee you that if there wasn't a UO or AC, then there wouldn't have been your WoW. There are so many things that I see in WoW or EQ2 that show that it came from the originals, like UO or EQ1. As a vet to this genre it just urks me.
Having played Lineage 2 before, beta. . .I will honestly say that Lineage 2 is one of the game out there that actually serves to the Hardcore vets of this series. It gives you a totally open world with NO instancing. I don't know where this instance crap came from, but I don't like it. Lineage 2 reminds me of UO in a way. . .
Another thing that bugs me about some of the games today is that yu don't have PK's anymore. All it is now is PvP. You go in a arena and battle and try to be the best. Darkfall, a game coming, is returning this feature to MMO's where you can get killed anywhere and you always have to be on yoru feet. Now I know I'm a bit off topic and not mentioning NCSoft. . .but what I'm trying to say here is that I feel like everyone is comparing new games to new games. . .Where as it should be New game to Older game.
I honestly feel that Lineage 2 is a very very underrated game. . .having played it in Beta, and loved it. . .I'm sure it's really shining now. I just feel people won't give it a chance at all. Their either afraid that they will loose all their stuff to PK's or it'll be too hard for them and they'll get frustrated.
ANother point. . .why are almost every MMORPG these days so solo oriented...yes, even NCSoft includes this. I have a hard time understanding why I should pay money monthly to play a game that could be played without a community?? This is why I think Vanguard is going to shine, when it releases. It gives you a game where you HAVE to be able to group up, while you can do some missions alone. . .the crazy ones will make you team up. This is the MAJOR factor for me on getting a MMORPG...this is why I think WoW fails (and others labels, WoW is easier to talk about because it's so known) in my oppinion. Sure you need groups to raid and all that, but what if I don't want to raid?? I want MMORPG to be community oriented, I want people to help me battle and not just random invites. I want the old school UO community back, where I rely on other people to get me items so I can create this item!
what are your thoughts on this?
/played-mmorpgs
Total time played:9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
The reason they compare them to WoW is because they obviously never had the pleasure of playing UO or EQ. While you and I have unfortunately most of today's gamers were not into this genre before recently so they just haven't experienced the true comparison games that we have.
WoW is just EQ done modern, imo. It really doesn't offer ***anything*** that EQ didn't. Oh wait... I can ride a mount... but I can do that in EQ too.... so yeah I think it's ironic that they want to compare things to WoW when WoW is just a carbon copy of EQ with a few minor features of other games thrown in as an afterthought.
And Lineage 2 is very much like UO in it's combat system. You DO have to worry about PK's in L2 just like in UO and you do have to worry about a 'red' if you see one. But that is about where the similarity dies. If L2 had a SKILL based advancement system like UO did I would be all over it. The reason L2 doesn't get the love you think it should is because it is a level grinder. A really really really monotonous level grinder to put it bluntly. There's not a whole hell of a lot to DO while you grind your way up... and up.... and up... in levels. The level 1 to 40 grind was reduced but after that it's still a bloody nightmare. L2 also doesn't have player housing or any meaningful crafting system. If it were MORE like UO than it is I would be THERE bud... all over it. I'm a die hard UO player and I still play on one of those servers we aren't allowed to talk about here as a matter of fact.
But why gamers compare it to WoW rather than EQ?
Simple: 500k people, maybe as many as 1,000,000 people, have played EQ in their lives. Over 7 million have played WoW
Doesn't really bother me though. WoW is just a re-touched version of EQ anyway.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by baff Originally posted by Novaseeker
Sheesh!
Haven't you ever seen a sensitivity analysis or other financial risk assessment tool? Figuring out whether a share is adequately priced involves, in part, evaluating the riskiness of the cash flow. In part that's what a financial analyst is doing when he is analysing whether to recommend "buy", "sell" or "hold" relating to a particular share. Certainly any financial analyst worth his salt takes a vibrant interest in any "concentrations" of cash flow, whether relating to a specific market, customer or product, in assessing the riskiness of the revenue stream, and hence the real "quality" of the earnings.
Not relevant. NCsoft has assets and markets in many countries all over the world, all of them politically and economically stable. Many of them in high growth areas.
I don't evaluaute shares value by their "revenue streams", I value them by their assets. That which can be physically sold to recuperate my investment if the company fails.
Riskyness of the cashflow, concentration of revenue streams are all totally irrelevant, what matters is whether or not the shares are going to go up, and what returns you will see on your investment while it being used. (Dividend).
In the case of a video games company share price will go up when investors smell a hit game. The idea is to smell it first. buy it, and then sell it before everyone else too.
If a "financial analyst" said anything like that kind of nonsense to me, he wouldn't get paid.
What a load of total bollocks.
All I can say is that I would never hire you as my investment advisor, that's for sure. I value shares as a multiple of earnings, like most folks do. As a shareholder I'm not interested in the liquidation value of the assets; my interest in the assets is that they are used productively in terms of revenue streams and earnings. I'm interested in whether the company makes money, and so yes I'm interested in the revenue stream and the earnings associated with that because higher earnings results in a higher multiple, which results in a higher stock price, which is better for me as a shareholder. A riskier revenue stream means the associated earnings are subject to greater risk, which means they should get a lower multiple in terms of stock price, and of course that depresses the value of the shares somewhat, as it should for a riskier investment. Earnings drives stock valuations for a going concern, not liquidation value.
All I can say is that I would never hire you as my investment advisor, that's for sure. I value shares as a multiple of earnings, like most folks do. As a shareholder I'm not interested in the liquidation value of the assets; my interest in the assets is that they are used productively in terms of revenue streams and earnings. I'm interested in whether the company makes money, and so yes I'm interested in the revenue stream and the earnings associated with that because higher earnings results in a higher multiple, which results in a higher stock price, which is better for me as a shareholder.
Totally irrelevant.
A companies earnings/revenue stream does not result in it's stock price rising, neither does it affect the dividend paid to the share holder.
Stockprice goes up onlywhen other people buy the share. (Supply and demand).
I don't buy shares because the company is making money, I buy them because it isn't.
Buy low sell high.
What is this utter bollocks you are spouting about "multiples" and "revenue streams"? You sound like an economics student. I think you should consider going back to basics.
A company with a low stock price and large assets is a target for a take over. People will try and buy the bargain priced company, so the stock price will go up.
High Liquidation value of stock means that the company may either be broken up and sold off for more than you paid for it, in which case you win, or someone tries to take it over and make a going concern of it, they do this by buying up stock, so the price goes up, in which case you win. It's called a win win situation.This is the most obvious and well known way to make on the stock market. Perhaps watch the film "Wall Street" with Michael Douglas for a simpler explanation.
The other way you make money out of shares is from Dividends. It's like the intrest on your money the bank pays you. In return for lending a company my money they offer to pay me a dividend on each share.
A dividend goes up (or down) whenever the company feels like it.
Elnator,if you get a good guild in Lineage2,you will not notice the grind.
You have played EQ1,it had so many grind also,first to max lvl than to get alternative experience points,loot,raids....
But comunity made EQ fun to play,you could have fun grinding levels,doing groups only to grind a room in a dungeon,for hours(i remember to get many friend this way),first i start soloing at dungeons entrance,players start to apearing and forming group to go dip in the dungeon.Instances kill comunity,like wow many people go from 1-60lvl soloing.On old fashon games we just do solo if we didnt had no one to join us.
I dont like to do quests mindlessly,nither instances in games
Today there is only one game that i can find pvp similar to UO,and EQ´s pve.That game is Lineage2,it have quests but they are not an have to do,and they are verry few per lvl,they are there so you have difrent things to do,wen you dont want to grind.
Originally posted by WARCRYtm Elnator,if you get a good guild in Lineage2,you will not notice the grind. You have played EQ1,it had so many grind also,first to max lvl than to get alternative experience points,loot,raids.... But comunity made EQ fun to play,you could have fun grinding levels,doing groups only to grind a room in a dungeon,for hours(i remember to get many friend this way),first i start soloing at dungeons entrance,players start to apearing and forming group to go dip in the dungeon.Instances kill comunity,like wow many people go from 1-60lvl soloing.On old fashon games we just do solo if we didnt had no one to join us. I dont like to do quests mindlessly,nither instances in games Today there is only one game that i can find pvp similar to UO,and EQ´s pve.That game is Lineage2,it have quests but they are not an have to do,and they are verry few per lvl,they are there so you have difrent things to do,wen you dont want to grind.
I'm sorry you are comparing things to do in L2 verses things to do in EQ1?
Lets see... EQ1 had about 30x the quests L2 has oh.... wait.... L2 doesn't really have any quests worth a damn... matter of fact I don't really recall hardly ANY quests, what few there were were 'go kill x dogs and bring back their pelts' and a pointless reward. EQ's quests had, for the large part, worthwhile rewards and were generally pretty involved, especially the ones added in kunark and later.
EQ1 also had a LOT cooler dungeons than just about any other game I've ever played. No other game gave (or gives) so much attention to detail in the dungeons. Even EQ2's dungeons don't really compare to the thought and effort that went into the dungeons in EQ1. After all, most of them are just the old dungeons re-done Though some that ARE new are pretty cool.
EQ1 also didn't have the bot problems that L2 has... you know... where you can't hunt in a location because some tard has set up a bot there killing everything in sight to farm gold to sell on ebay?
EQ1 had a crafting system. If you got bored with questing or hunting or adventuring or exploring you could always set up shop and craft to your hearts content and sell your items to other players. It's not the greatest crafting system in the world... matter of fact it's a pretty weak one... but it was FAR superior to what L2 offers.
The ONLY thing better in L2 than in EQ is PVP. And you really don't wanna go PVP till you're at LEAST in your 60's.... and I already covered that. It takes as long to get to 60 (which is the bare minimum, imo, for any kind of fun in PVP) as it took to get to 65 in EQ. Not to mention the fact that Open PVP sucks HARD in a LEVEL based system. Open PVP is nothing but an excercize in frustration for lower level players. So even 60 is kind of silly since anyone more than a couple levels above you will oblitterate you in combat. So you can go have a little fun helping others in a seige or something in L2 but don't turn red or you're going to die a nasty horrid death. And don't try to attack a red unless you just like dying. PVP is 'ok' in L2 but it's nothing to write home about because, like DAOC and other factional combat games, level makes a difference. The difference is that in DAOC PVP is optional . That's what makes PVP ok in DAOC. If you WANT to PVP you can, and you can go somewhere where you're guaranteed not to face anyone too far above you in level. Not so in L2.
But yes, I know a "good guild" is always the 'pat answer' when someone is defending a game that they like but know is fairly boring for most people. The solution is always "get in a good guild". Just a clue to those who LOVE this arguement so much: A Guild should ENHANCE the fun ALREADY part of a game. It should NOT be required to even remotely enjoy a game. I loved EverQuest. I was in good guilds in EQ... I was in BAD guilds in EQ I even spent time with NO guild in EQ. I played EQ for over 6 years, not including Beta Phase 2 through Release. It's the single longest I have ever played ANY MMO except ONE: Ultima Online, which as I mentioned before I STILL play on a 'classic' shard. A guild isn't required there for me to have fun either. It's just a FUN GAME. Games should be FUN in and of themselves. Guild and player interactions should serve to ENHANCE that fun.
I tried Lineage II... both in beta and for 4 months of retail before I came to my senses. It's just *not* a fun game for me. I did love the PVP but I hated the level grind. Emphatically. It was very depressing to spend *hours* just to get a dot. Level 20-30 in L2 (and there are over 100 levels last time I lookd) was WORSE than level 40-50 in EQ. Pre-Kunark. And level 50-100 in L2 was WAY worse than level 50 to 65 in EQ.
And EQ had a LOT more things for me to explore, try and do during the time that I was actualy levelling up. Especially once Kunark and Vellious came out. Then Luclin hit and there was literally TOO MUCH content... and it only got worse with later expansions. There's so much to explore in EQ1 that anyone NEW to the game will probably never actually see it all even if they try.
Like I said. I respect NCSoft as a company and respect what they've accomplished in the industry. But most of their games I don't consider worth a monthly fee. I certainly wouldn't pay a monthly fee for L2...
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I played DAoC 2,5 years(i stil have an open account on european servers)you need a good guild there so you will never get on deep on RVR(loved thous 8vs8 fights on old frontiers),if you want to go deep on mmorpgs you need to be in a good guild(this is just my opinion).Do you like DAoC instances?(They destroied the game for me)
Today Lineage2 have 4 cronicles(4(free)expantions).Chronicles3 had quests to the game.I am with you wen you say EQ quests are beter than L2 quests.
And leveling in Lineage2 today is faster than wen the game relesed.
NCSoft has alot of good games under it's belt. None of them may be the #1 game out there, but they are each #1 for alot of people. Each of the games has its own unique slice of the MMO playerbase.
I really have to commend NCSoft as well. From a community standpoint, they are taking the new and innovative games and helping them come out to the forefront. Almost every game they've published is unique and helps to spread the variety in the community.
It's important that we have companies like this which will take the chances to back the interesting games that seem risky which other publishers might not take the chance on.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by JimLad They do like to change lanes somewhat, but outside the alternate themes I haven't heard many ecstatic testamonials about their games.
Auto Assault is the shizzle ma nizzle! It's so freakin awesome! Getting massive air then landing on some dudes head and hearing him splat under your wheels then doing a 180 and driving through his whole neighbourhood, guns blazing and level the whole dang trailer park! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Plus you can customize your vehicle with scoops and airfoils and running bars, get wicked drops from random average mobs, soup up your engine, guns, armor! Take the resources you harvest from levelling houses, reverse engineer drops you find and craft yourself wicked new items! And you can experiment and improve the designs of the items you find!!1
Lineage 2 is not only about PvP... Yes PvP is the main thing but when I returned, I saw many people asking for Raiding parties. After figuring out that there was an NPC that told you about the different Raid Bosses in Lineage 2, I ended up being in tons of raids! It was amazing.
Also, is it just me or did NcSoft lighten up the grind for Lineage 2?
I seriously believe they did something because I gained 45% EXP in about 3-4 hours and I was lvl 33. Before, I thought it took me A LOT longer.
Originally posted by Elnator Mae, The reason they compare them to WoW is because they obviously never had the pleasure of playing UO or EQ. While you and I have unfortunately most of today's gamers were not into this genre before recently so they just haven't experienced the true comparison games that we have. WoW is just EQ done modern, imo. It really doesn't offer ***anything*** that EQ didn't. Oh wait... I can ride a mount... but I can do that in EQ too.... so yeah I think it's ironic that they want to compare things to WoW when WoW is just a carbon copy of EQ with a few minor features of other games thrown in as an afterthought. And Lineage 2 is very much like UO in it's combat system. You DO have to worry about PK's in L2 just like in UO and you do have to worry about a 'red' if you see one. But that is about where the similarity dies. If L2 had a SKILL based advancement system like UO did I would be all over it. The reason L2 doesn't get the love you think it should is because it is a level grinder. A really really really monotonous level grinder to put it bluntly. There's not a whole hell of a lot to DO while you grind your way up... and up.... and up... in levels. The level 1 to 40 grind was reduced but after that it's still a bloody nightmare. L2 also doesn't have player housing or any meaningful crafting system. If it were MORE like UO than it is I would be THERE bud... all over it. I'm a die hard UO player and I still play on one of those servers we aren't allowed to talk about here as a matter of fact. But why gamers compare it to WoW rather than EQ? Simple: 500k people, maybe as many as 1,000,000 people, have played EQ in their lives. Over 7 million have played WoW Doesn't really bother me though. WoW is just a re-touched version of EQ anyway.
Sorry to compare it to WoW, but like you said more people have played it, hence it's much easier to send the message, so please don't pull the 'high and mighty oldschool' card. I never played old UO but have heard loads about it and wished a game would re-light the PvP fire it seemed to have. That's my argument with Auto Assault, you just get a contested area like that 're-touched version of EQ' and then the rest of the game is just Carmageddon online, how long before running over mindless npcs gets boring? It took me about 2 days, but that's because half of them were for quests.
Personally, coming from a CoH exile on WoW, Ifeel NCSoft does not look after the PvE crowd. Not everyone wants to PvP, but to explore some of the new zones (since CoH had -very- small zones), you were forced to PvP.
Comparing it to WoW in level grind: 1CoH lvl=2-5 WoW lvls. The grind and missions were tedious, and with the patches to all but Controllers, made the game post-20 almost unplayable. WoW has the better system.
Graphics-wise: CoH's water effects require too much power for a recommended system, whereas I maxed out WoW's effects across the board, and the graphics look lovely.
Challange: While I don't like it to be too easy, CoH did so many nerfs people began to complain, and leave, in droves for either CoV (which was built for the nerfs), or to WoW. The easiest level HAD to be done in a team of four, where in WoW, a team of two can wipe a lot out if played right.
Fun: CoH became a major grind after level 5, and some archetypes were severely bugged. After 6 patches (when I quit), more bugs appeared, and old bugs were never fixed). It took 1-2 hours to increase one level, and the grind started to repeat over and over. WoW though seems more fluid, taking 10 minutes - 1 hour to level, sometimes 2 levels, and if the grind sucks, you can have fun crafting and making items.
This is just one example, having played CoH for 2 years, and WoW for 6 months (I have more lvl 24 characters than I ever had on CoH!).
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
Originally posted by Trindras Originally posted by MaeEye This company, wheather you like it or not, seriouly has their (escuse my language) shit together. Seriously.
Even though you might not play their games or whatnot, but they really try to bring unique into the MMORPG world. First off, you get games from them like Auto Assault (drive around and destroy), CoH/CoV...create a superhero/villian, who else would have thought of that? Guild Wars. One of the biggest Multiplayer RPG to day, and FREE! They took chances in the industry and are showing what the MMO world can do. Sure, they might not have "5 Million" subscribers in the game, but overall, they had tons of MMO's out there bringing in probably more than any MMO right now.
I currently don't play any NCSoft games...well, ANY MMO game right now, but you have to think about it. THis company has potentials, and I'm really looking forward to what they have in store for us in the future. A+ Company.
NCSoft is a young company, but already a powerhouse in the MMO industry. They will slowly find better and better developers to bring better games to fruition, and as such, I FULLY expect them to overtake SOE and Blizzard as the largest MMO publisher.
That is unless Blizzard opens a "World of Starcraft" type game, as well, we know how it is. Fanboys and all that. But other than that, NCSoft has shown to use that thinking outside the box (bringing Korean games to western audiences, no fee MMO-like gameplay, and unique ideas like being a superhero) CAN work, and will be profitable to do.
While your current projects may not be the #1 product right now, my hat is off to you NCSoft. May the other publishers learn from your example.
if they ever actually came out with a world of starcraft, i would totally play it ALL the time. i hate WoW, but starcraft is one of my favorite universes, plus it wouldnt be all comic/cartoon like.
Originally posted by jayheld90 Originally posted by Trindras Originally posted by MaeEye This company, wheather you like it or not, seriouly has their (escuse my language) shit together. Seriously.
Even though you might not play their games or whatnot, but they really try to bring unique into the MMORPG world. First off, you get games from them like Auto Assault (drive around and destroy), CoH/CoV...create a superhero/villian, who else would have thought of that? Guild Wars. One of the biggest Multiplayer RPG to day, and FREE! They took chances in the industry and are showing what the MMO world can do. Sure, they might not have "5 Million" subscribers in the game, but overall, they had tons of MMO's out there bringing in probably more than any MMO right now.
I currently don't play any NCSoft games...well, ANY MMO game right now, but you have to think about it. THis company has potentials, and I'm really looking forward to what they have in store for us in the future. A+ Company.
NCSoft is a young company, but already a powerhouse in the MMO industry. They will slowly find better and better developers to bring better games to fruition, and as such, I FULLY expect them to overtake SOE and Blizzard as the largest MMO publisher.
That is unless Blizzard opens a "World of Starcraft" type game, as well, we know how it is. Fanboys and all that. But other than that, NCSoft has shown to use that thinking outside the box (bringing Korean games to western audiences, no fee MMO-like gameplay, and unique ideas like being a superhero) CAN work, and will be profitable to do.
While your current projects may not be the #1 product right now, my hat is off to you NCSoft. May the other publishers learn from your example.
if they ever actually came out with a world of starcraft, i would totally play it ALL the time. i hate WoW, but starcraft is one of my favorite universes, plus it wouldnt be all comic/cartoon like.
You do realize if they did come out with World of Starcraft, it would likely be EXACTLY like WoW but set in the SC univers....don't you?
Originally posted by Rattrap Common young company ?!
NCsoft not only has one of the best graphic departments (check the concept pictures for GW) , excelent proggramers (does the fact that lineage2,CoV,GW look great but run on low end machines tells you something) , great game designers (one of creators of D&D , ex diablo creators - look ad GW crazy skill concept)
And than to put a cream on it all , they go and break the buisness mode of monthly fee - (inspite of great frowning of mmo industry) and succed greatly !!!
I think we will seeing much more from NCsoft , and if they are no king of MMO (like blizzard) they are surely silver medallists...
NCSoft is not a developer they are a publisher, ArenaNet is the company that made GW and yes they do have amazing artists. I got the collectors edition and the art book kicks ass, too bad the rest of the game is so shallow and boring.
I call BS for thier work on guildwars, to me they are sending a message that says "Its ok to release a poor MMO" and frankly...I'd like a damn refund. Not happy at all with it.
Challange: While I don't like it to be too easy, CoH did so many nerfs people began to complain, and leave, in droves for either CoV (which was built for the nerfs), or to WoW. The easiest level HAD to be done in a team of four, where in WoW, a team of two can wipe a lot out if played right.
You played COH for two years and you couldn't solo on the easiest level? I really have a hard time believing that, I can solo on the Middle level in my early 20's as can most of the people I play with. COH is MMO for beginners still very easy to play. I solo quite a bit, to level up some alts and never have a problem with it.
Originally posted by Aseenus i agree with ur first statement where u said they got there "shit" together :P
they got more mmo's then any company out there and all of them are big! none are "no names" as u might call them
They have the most MMOs cause they're all flash and no substance. Seems they force the developers to work on it like a year and shove them out the door. *dons ncsoft fanboi flameshield*
Originally posted by zethcarn Originally posted by Aseenus i agree with ur first statement where u said they got there "shit" together :P
they got more mmo's then any company out there and all of them are big! none are "no names" as u might call them
They have the most MMOs cause they're all flash and no substance. Seems they force the developers to work on it like a year and shove them out the door. *dons ncsoft fanboi flameshield*
Elaborate?
I don't really see more than a few, if any, MMORPG out right now that has more "substance" than the NCsoft games. Also, not to mention that NCsoft releases games near bug-free, it's a bug-free heaven compared to 99% of other MMORPGs at launch.
Comments
Not relevant.
NCsoft has assets and markets in many countries all over the world, all of them politically and economically stable. Many of them in high growth areas.
I don't evaluaute shares value by their "revenue streams", I value them by their assets. That which can be physically sold to recuperate my investment if the company fails.
Riskyness of the cashflow, concentration of revenue streams are all totally irrelevant, what matters is whether or not the shares are going to go up, and what returns you will see on your investment while it being used. (Dividend).
In the case of a video games company share price will go up when investors smell a hit game. The idea is to smell it first. buy it, and then sell it before everyone else too.
If a "financial analyst" said anything like that kind of nonsense to me, he wouldn't get paid.
What a load of total bollocks.
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lol, you just shot yourself in the foot there matey. You judge me for not playing Lineage II and rating it yet you admit to not playing Auto Assault and saying I'm wrong when I have played it. It's not like WoW in the most obvious way that most people like yourself see it. It is like WoW however in the way that others realise, which is you basically do the same stuff, almost in the same way but a little differently. You customise a shiney car and avatar and then... quest. Quest to get more shiney stuff to put on your car and gain more levels. The combat is auto targeted and dice rolled which I felt was a massive waste. See I actually followed this game from last summer and was suddenly hit with reality by finding it was a lot more boring than I had envisioned.
On a different note I have to say I have made a complete arse of myself yet again, when I said Lineage II, I actually meant Guild Wars lmao (always get those names mixed up for some reason). Sorry about that, I have played Lineage II, only a little so I won't pass judgement on it.
One thing that bugs me alot about MMORPGer's today is that they compare EVERY damn game to WoW. Why WoW? because it's popular for a little bit? WoW wasn't even close to being the first MMO ever. I wish people would compare the MMORPG's with MMO's of yesterday. . .like UO, EQ1, or AC. These games gave us your "WoW" and your EQ2. I guarantee you that if there wasn't a UO or AC, then there wouldn't have been your WoW. There are so many things that I see in WoW or EQ2 that show that it came from the originals, like UO or EQ1. As a vet to this genre it just urks me.
Having played Lineage 2 before, beta. . .I will honestly say that Lineage 2 is one of the game out there that actually serves to the Hardcore vets of this series. It gives you a totally open world with NO instancing. I don't know where this instance crap came from, but I don't like it. Lineage 2 reminds me of UO in a way. . .
Another thing that bugs me about some of the games today is that yu don't have PK's anymore. All it is now is PvP. You go in a arena and battle and try to be the best. Darkfall, a game coming, is returning this feature to MMO's where you can get killed anywhere and you always have to be on yoru feet. Now I know I'm a bit off topic and not mentioning NCSoft. . .but what I'm trying to say here is that I feel like everyone is comparing new games to new games. . .Where as it should be New game to Older game.
I honestly feel that Lineage 2 is a very very underrated game. . .having played it in Beta, and loved it. . .I'm sure it's really shining now. I just feel people won't give it a chance at all. Their either afraid that they will loose all their stuff to PK's or it'll be too hard for them and they'll get frustrated.
ANother point. . .why are almost every MMORPG these days so solo oriented...yes, even NCSoft includes this. I have a hard time understanding why I should pay money monthly to play a game that could be played without a community?? This is why I think Vanguard is going to shine, when it releases. It gives you a game where you HAVE to be able to group up, while you can do some missions alone. . .the crazy ones will make you team up. This is the MAJOR factor for me on getting a MMORPG...this is why I think WoW fails (and others labels, WoW is easier to talk about because it's so known) in my oppinion. Sure you need groups to raid and all that, but what if I don't want to raid?? I want MMORPG to be community oriented, I want people to help me battle and not just random invites. I want the old school UO community back, where I rely on other people to get me items so I can create this item!
what are your thoughts on this?
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
Mae,
The reason they compare them to WoW is because they obviously never had the pleasure of playing UO or EQ. While you and I have unfortunately most of today's gamers were not into this genre before recently so they just haven't experienced the true comparison games that we have.
WoW is just EQ done modern, imo. It really doesn't offer ***anything*** that EQ didn't. Oh wait... I can ride a mount... but I can do that in EQ too.... so yeah I think it's ironic that they want to compare things to WoW when WoW is just a carbon copy of EQ with a few minor features of other games thrown in as an afterthought.
And Lineage 2 is very much like UO in it's combat system. You DO have to worry about PK's in L2 just like in UO and you do have to worry about a 'red' if you see one. But that is about where the similarity dies. If L2 had a SKILL based advancement system like UO did I would be all over it. The reason L2 doesn't get the love you think it should is because it is a level grinder. A really really really monotonous level grinder to put it bluntly. There's not a whole hell of a lot to DO while you grind your way up... and up.... and up... in levels. The level 1 to 40 grind was reduced but after that it's still a bloody nightmare. L2 also doesn't have player housing or any meaningful crafting system. If it were MORE like UO than it is I would be THERE bud... all over it. I'm a die hard UO player and I still play on one of those servers we aren't allowed to talk about here as a matter of fact.
But why gamers compare it to WoW rather than EQ?
Simple: 500k people, maybe as many as 1,000,000 people, have played EQ in their lives. Over 7 million have played WoW
Doesn't really bother me though. WoW is just a re-touched version of EQ anyway.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Not relevant.
NCsoft has assets and markets in many countries all over the world, all of them politically and economically stable. Many of them in high growth areas.
I don't evaluaute shares value by their "revenue streams", I value them by their assets. That which can be physically sold to recuperate my investment if the company fails.
Riskyness of the cashflow, concentration of revenue streams are all totally irrelevant, what matters is whether or not the shares are going to go up, and what returns you will see on your investment while it being used. (Dividend).
In the case of a video games company share price will go up when investors smell a hit game. The idea is to smell it first. buy it, and then sell it before everyone else too.
If a "financial analyst" said anything like that kind of nonsense to me, he wouldn't get paid.
What a load of total bollocks.
All I can say is that I would never hire you as my investment advisor, that's for sure. I value shares as a multiple of earnings, like most folks do. As a shareholder I'm not interested in the liquidation value of the assets; my interest in the assets is that they are used productively in terms of revenue streams and earnings. I'm interested in whether the company makes money, and so yes I'm interested in the revenue stream and the earnings associated with that because higher earnings results in a higher multiple, which results in a higher stock price, which is better for me as a shareholder. A riskier revenue stream means the associated earnings are subject to greater risk, which means they should get a lower multiple in terms of stock price, and of course that depresses the value of the shares somewhat, as it should for a riskier investment. Earnings drives stock valuations for a going concern, not liquidation value.
A companies earnings/revenue stream does not result in it's stock price rising, neither does it affect the dividend paid to the share holder.
Stockprice goes up only when other people buy the share. (Supply and demand).
I don't buy shares because the company is making money, I buy them because it isn't.
Buy low sell high.
What is this utter bollocks you are spouting about "multiples" and "revenue streams"? You sound like an economics student. I think you should consider going back to basics.
A company with a low stock price and large assets is a target for a take over. People will try and buy the bargain priced company, so the stock price will go up.
High Liquidation value of stock means that the company may either be broken up and sold off for more than you paid for it, in which case you win, or someone tries to take it over and make a going concern of it, they do this by buying up stock, so the price goes up, in which case you win. It's called a win win situation.This is the most obvious and well known way to make on the stock market. Perhaps watch the film "Wall Street" with Michael Douglas for a simpler explanation.
The other way you make money out of shares is from Dividends. It's like the intrest on your money the bank pays you. In return for lending a company my money they offer to pay me a dividend on each share.
A dividend goes up (or down) whenever the company feels like it.
Elnator,if you get a good guild in Lineage2,you will not notice the grind.
You have played EQ1,it had so many grind also,first to max lvl than to get alternative experience points,loot,raids....
But comunity made EQ fun to play,you could have fun grinding levels,doing groups only to grind a room in a dungeon,for hours(i remember to get many friend this way),first i start soloing at dungeons entrance,players start to apearing and forming group to go dip in the dungeon.Instances kill comunity,like wow many people go from 1-60lvl soloing.On old fashon games we just do solo if we didnt had no one to join us.
I dont like to do quests mindlessly,nither instances in games
Today there is only one game that i can find pvp similar to UO,and EQ´s pve.That game is Lineage2,it have quests but they are not an have to do,and they are verry few per lvl,they are there so you have difrent things to do,wen you dont want to grind.
Lets see... EQ1 had about 30x the quests L2 has oh.... wait.... L2 doesn't really have any quests worth a damn... matter of fact I don't really recall hardly ANY quests, what few there were were 'go kill x dogs and bring back their pelts' and a pointless reward. EQ's quests had, for the large part, worthwhile rewards and were generally pretty involved, especially the ones added in kunark and later.
EQ1 also had a LOT cooler dungeons than just about any other game I've ever played. No other game gave (or gives) so much attention to detail in the dungeons. Even EQ2's dungeons don't really compare to the thought and effort that went into the dungeons in EQ1. After all, most of them are just the old dungeons re-done
EQ1 also didn't have the bot problems that L2 has... you know... where you can't hunt in a location because some tard has set up a bot there killing everything in sight to farm gold to sell on ebay?
EQ1 had a crafting system. If you got bored with questing or hunting or adventuring or exploring you could always set up shop and craft to your hearts content and sell your items to other players. It's not the greatest crafting system in the world... matter of fact it's a pretty weak one... but it was FAR superior to what L2 offers.
The ONLY thing better in L2 than in EQ is PVP. And you really don't wanna go PVP till you're at LEAST in your 60's.... and I already covered that. It takes as long to get to 60 (which is the bare minimum, imo, for any kind of fun in PVP) as it took to get to 65 in EQ. Not to mention the fact that Open PVP sucks HARD in a LEVEL based system. Open PVP is nothing but an excercize in frustration for lower level players. So even 60 is kind of silly since anyone more than a couple levels above you will oblitterate you in combat. So you can go have a little fun helping others in a seige or something in L2 but don't turn red or you're going to die a nasty horrid death. And don't try to attack a red unless you just like dying. PVP is 'ok' in L2 but it's nothing to write home about because, like DAOC and other factional combat games, level makes a difference. The difference is that in DAOC PVP is optional
But yes, I know a "good guild" is always the 'pat answer' when someone is defending a game that they like but know is fairly boring for most people. The solution is always "get in a good guild". Just a clue to those who LOVE this arguement so much: A Guild should ENHANCE the fun ALREADY part of a game. It should NOT be required to even remotely enjoy a game. I loved EverQuest. I was in good guilds in EQ... I was in BAD guilds in EQ I even spent time with NO guild in EQ. I played EQ for over 6 years, not including Beta Phase 2 through Release. It's the single longest I have ever played ANY MMO except ONE: Ultima Online, which as I mentioned before I STILL play on a 'classic' shard. A guild isn't required there for me to have fun either. It's just a FUN GAME. Games should be FUN in and of themselves. Guild and player interactions should serve to ENHANCE that fun.
I tried Lineage II... both in beta and for 4 months of retail before I came to my senses. It's just *not* a fun game for me. I did love the PVP but I hated the level grind. Emphatically. It was very depressing to spend *hours* just to get a dot. Level 20-30 in L2 (and there are over 100 levels last time I lookd) was WORSE than level 40-50 in EQ. Pre-Kunark. And level 50-100 in L2 was WAY worse than level 50 to 65 in EQ.
And EQ had a LOT more things for me to explore, try and do during the time that I was actualy levelling up. Especially once Kunark and Vellious came out. Then Luclin hit and there was literally TOO MUCH content... and it only got worse with later expansions.
Like I said. I respect NCSoft as a company and respect what they've accomplished in the industry. But most of their games I don't consider worth a monthly fee. I certainly wouldn't pay a monthly fee for L2...
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Ok,is your opinion and i repect that
I played DAoC 2,5 years(i stil have an open account on european servers)you need a good guild there so you will never get on deep on RVR(loved thous 8vs8 fights on old frontiers),if you want to go deep on mmorpgs you need to be in a good guild(this is just my opinion).Do you like DAoC instances?(They destroied the game for me)
Today Lineage2 have 4 cronicles(4(free)expantions).Chronicles3 had quests to the game.I am with you wen you say EQ quests are beter than L2 quests.
And leveling in Lineage2 today is faster than wen the game relesed.
Thx for your reply
NCSoft has alot of good games under it's belt. None of them may be the #1 game out there, but they are each #1 for alot of people. Each of the games has its own unique slice of the MMO playerbase.
I really have to commend NCSoft as well. From a community standpoint, they are taking the new and innovative games and helping them come out to the forefront. Almost every game they've published is unique and helps to spread the variety in the community.
It's important that we have companies like this which will take the chances to back the interesting games that seem risky which other publishers might not take the chance on.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Auto Assault is the shizzle ma nizzle! It's so freakin awesome! Getting massive air then landing on some dudes head and hearing him splat under your wheels then doing a 180 and driving through his whole neighbourhood, guns blazing and level the whole dang trailer park! That's what I'm talkin' 'bout! Plus you can customize your vehicle with scoops and airfoils and running bars, get wicked drops from random average mobs, soup up your engine, guns, armor! Take the resources you harvest from levelling houses, reverse engineer drops you find and craft yourself wicked new items! And you can experiment and improve the designs of the items you find!!1
There.
poopee
Lineage 2 is not only about PvP... Yes PvP is the main thing but when I returned, I saw many people asking for Raiding parties. After figuring out that there was an NPC that told you about the different Raid Bosses in Lineage 2, I ended up being in tons of raids! It was amazing.
Also, is it just me or did NcSoft lighten up the grind for Lineage 2?
I seriously believe they did something because I gained 45% EXP in about 3-4 hours and I was lvl 33. Before, I thought it took me A LOT longer.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
Comparing it to WoW in level grind: 1CoH lvl=2-5 WoW lvls. The grind and missions were tedious, and with the patches to all but Controllers, made the game post-20 almost unplayable. WoW has the better system.
Graphics-wise: CoH's water effects require too much power for a recommended system, whereas I maxed out WoW's effects across the board, and the graphics look lovely.
Challange: While I don't like it to be too easy, CoH did so many nerfs people began to complain, and leave, in droves for either CoV (which was built for the nerfs), or to WoW. The easiest level HAD to be done in a team of four, where in WoW, a team of two can wipe a lot out if played right.
Fun: CoH became a major grind after level 5, and some archetypes were severely bugged. After 6 patches (when I quit), more bugs appeared, and old bugs were never fixed). It took 1-2 hours to increase one level, and the grind started to repeat over and over. WoW though seems more fluid, taking 10 minutes - 1 hour to level, sometimes 2 levels, and if the grind sucks, you can have fun crafting and making items.
This is just one example, having played CoH for 2 years, and WoW for 6 months (I have more lvl 24 characters than I ever had on CoH!).
"Of all the things wrong with today's RPGs, 2D characters on a 3D background is the worst."
That is unless Blizzard opens a "World of Starcraft" type game, as well, we know how it is. Fanboys and all that. But other than that, NCSoft has shown to use that thinking outside the box (bringing Korean games to western audiences, no fee MMO-like gameplay, and unique ideas like being a superhero) CAN work, and will be profitable to do.
While your current projects may not be the #1 product right now, my hat is off to you NCSoft. May the other publishers learn from your example.
if they ever actually came out with a world of starcraft, i would totally play it ALL the time. i hate WoW, but starcraft is one of my favorite universes, plus it wouldnt be all comic/cartoon like.
they got more mmo's then any company out there and all of them are big! none are "no names" as u might call them
That is unless Blizzard opens a "World of Starcraft" type game, as well, we know how it is. Fanboys and all that. But other than that, NCSoft has shown to use that thinking outside the box (bringing Korean games to western audiences, no fee MMO-like gameplay, and unique ideas like being a superhero) CAN work, and will be profitable to do.
While your current projects may not be the #1 product right now, my hat is off to you NCSoft. May the other publishers learn from your example.
if they ever actually came out with a world of starcraft, i would totally play it ALL the time. i hate WoW, but starcraft is one of my favorite universes, plus it wouldnt be all comic/cartoon like.
You do realize if they did come out with World of Starcraft, it would likely be EXACTLY like WoW but set in the SC univers....don't you?
Elaborate?
I don't really see more than a few, if any, MMORPG out right now that has more "substance" than the NCsoft games. Also, not to mention that NCsoft releases games near bug-free, it's a bug-free heaven compared to 99% of other MMORPGs at launch.