Some journalists use the revenue / clicks argument. The MMO genre is dying so they need to cover non-MMOs in order to increase clicks and revenue. This is a perfectly valid reason for covering more genres, but it's a poor excuse to start mislabeling games. Just man up and explain why you're covering more genres, we all understand that aspect fine.
I would say the MMO Genre is stagnate while it is redefining itself. This is because the Click bait garbage that journalistic sights put out for the last 10 years. Add to that MMORPG publishers overwhelmingly have been Published companies who only cares about making money for the CEO and Stockholders. They do not care about the customer only that they are making money from the customer.
I think getting rid of the Ad driven websites would be better. Maybe charge a subscription feed like The Athletic does whom I will be subscribing here too in the next month when I get other things taken care off. For $3.99 a month for real good Journalism and not pushing the paid corporate line from CEOs I would be more into the content. It would also be nice to see sites like MMORPG, partner with other sights and offer memberships to their sites for a low fee.
Right now having the CEOs of Blizzard, EA, and the rest of the publishers out there push their agenda onto MMORPG.com so guys like Bill can make a living off this. While I agree Bill should make a living, the method does a huge disservice to the industry. The MMORPG Genre is a mess right now because of this. When the CEO of EA pushed all the sites to make SWTOR into a WOW killer, what was the TRUE outcome of that? SWTOR shown how bad of a game it was, how much money EA and Bioware spent on the game that never made a good profit. Its because EA and Bioware management pushed an agenda that was designed to make the CEO and Stockholders money not a great game for MMORPG and Starwars fans.
Vocabulary is basically a popularity contest. It explains why there is not just one dictionary that applies to all. Several different types with some words found in some but not others because the workers who put them together reach different conclusions sometimes.
Anne Curzan: What makes a word "real"?
That's a really interesting way to say it and I agree!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
lol. Of course they do. Heck, I'm working on my own blog right now and hope to start affiliate marketing too. Working a regular job is killing me slowly. I just want enough money that I don't have to work at a job anymore. I'm tired of being treated like throw away crap by bosses and owners and never being paid enough. All that's going on here is the exact same thing.
Vocabulary is basically a popularity contest. It explains why there is not just one dictionary that applies to all. Several different types with some words found in some but not others because the workers who put them together reach different conclusions sometimes.
Anne Curzan: What makes a word "real"?
That's a really interesting way to say it and I agree!
Anne Curzan is absolutely awesome.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Vocabulary is basically a popularity contest. It explains why there is not just one dictionary that applies to all. Several different types with some words found in some but not others because the workers who put them together reach different conclusions sometimes.
Anne Curzan: What makes a word "real"?
That's a really interesting way to say it and I agree!
I agree with this premise. But I would say here is how the term MMO is going.
~80% of people who care about the term MMO understand it to mean a game where hundreds or thousands of players occupy the same world at the same time.
(Obviously if you ask your grandma who doesn't own a computer or someone who doesn't even speak English what MMO means their opinion doesn't matter because they aren't someone who would use or understand that phrase)
That other 20% tends to be people confusing the term because they have a stake in doing so, and those who see the people confusing the term as an "authority" on the term.
So I would not say this confusion has redefined the term because the buy-in by those who use the term is not high enough. Most of us still know what an MMO means, even if a few choose to consciously misuse that term.
I will leave this here from 2014 -- and to say that the MMO industry has gotten even more scarce in terms of news in the intervening 4 years is to understate things greatly, hence the further inclusion of MOBAs, multiplayer shooters, battle royale games and survival games to name a few.
"Over the next several years, something will be very apparent to the MMORPG faithful: MMORPGs will be released that aren't officially being called MMORPGs by their developers and publishers. Why? Because someone, somewhere, with all their marketing research and statistical analysis decided that "MMORPG" pretty much means World of Warcraft, nerds in the basement, and incidentally - the guy from South Park's beloved WoW episode.
The other side is that this means the genre's almost outgrown itself. More and more games are incorporating MMO-like features and online play into their core design. You'll have Bungie and Ubisoft claim often enough that Destiny or The Division "aren't really" MMOs. And perhaps, they're right. Destiny won't be a fully-on-all-the-time shared world in that you can't get away from other people. It has a core single-player narrative, but events happen in the massive game world that lead you into interacting and playing alongside others... and that almost sounds like the ideal theme park MMO, doesn't it?"
It was because of this idea that I gave up coming here for news. I went from a daily reader to a maybe once every couple of months guy. While it's understandable that there isn't enough MMO games to cover, report on or even advertise. I, like many came here all the time for MMO updates, witty yet informative articles and the general news about MMOs (new games, patches, dev reports etc.). Something inside me died the day Bill made the announcement that souls were being sold (people gotta eat, I get it). The OP has a point though, a great many sites, pages, forums really need to drop they're MMO name and display their goals honestly. My 2 cents, we are all allowed opinions.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
As @Iselin mentioned, the issue isn't about change. It's okay to have a debate about borderline titles due to technical improvements allowing devs to blur the line, but including titles such as MOBAs isn't debatable. They aren't, and the best argument for their inclusion has been either A) journalism leading the way, or B ) apathy about the distinction.
There's a simple resolution for both that doesn't include ignoring clear reality. As Iselin mentioned, I don't think it's done maliciously on the part of journalists. But they haven't done much to clarify or correct it, either.
Yeah but language doesn't evolve because of "strict rules" and adherence to protocol.
So if Journalists and developers and marketers are adding to that definition and they succeed then it's a done deal.
If I walk out of my house and call a car a truck and for some reason it catches on and more and more people start doing it then forever more it will be a truck.
A car with truck features is called a crossover car. Google it.
no I was being specific. A car.
Yea but there is reason people would say a car is truck. They wouldnt say it if it was clearly a car, there has to be enough truck there for people to question what they are looking at.
Nobody is gonna look at a Honda Civic and call it a truck bro. That's not whats happening here.
That wasn't the point.
Just like in certain areas all sodas are called coke ("they wouldn't say it was if it was clearly 'something else'" right?)
In other areas all soda is called "pop".
If for whatever reason a slang term, a colloquialism "whatever" caught on, then the name would change.
So the first "car" was not "car". It actually had other names, horseless carriage being one among many.
you mean MOTOR VEHICLES?! blasphemer!
lol see!!?!?!
Also, just found this:
A lorry is a large, flat bed truck, covered or open,
for carrying goods. The word was in use for certain kinds of freight
carrying rail cars long before motor vehicles were invented and it has
been around since the early 19th century.
I can see the rail car people going nuts "why are you calling that a Lorry!?!? It's clearly not a Lorry!"
Nobody is marketing lorries to consumers here. If they were, and there was a substantial difference in function for lorries and railcars, you night get away with making that argument here.
So the point with that was that the word used to be used for one particular thing. A part of a train. Eventually it was used for a type of truck.
See? Words starting out as one thing and then incorporating other things. Is this thing on *taps mic*.
And yet again, it was inconsequential a move in meaning. Here, we've definitely seen consequences of moving the meaning. We cannot ignore that context.
As @Iselin mentioned, the issue isn't about change. It's okay to have a debate about borderline titles due to technical improvements allowing devs to blur the line, but including titles such as MOBAs isn't debatable. They aren't, and the best argument for their inclusion has been either A) journalism leading the way, or B ) apathy about the distinction.
There's a simple resolution for both that doesn't include ignoring clear reality. As Iselin mentioned, I don't think it's done maliciously on the part of journalists. But they haven't done much to clarify or correct it, either.
Yeah but language doesn't evolve because of "strict rules" and adherence to protocol.
So if Journalists and developers and marketers are adding to that definition and they succeed then it's a done deal.
If I walk out of my house and call a car a truck and for some reason it catches on and more and more people start doing it then forever more it will be a truck.
A car with truck features is called a crossover car. Google it.
no I was being specific. A car.
Yea but there is reason people would say a car is truck. They wouldnt say it if it was clearly a car, there has to be enough truck there for people to question what they are looking at.
Nobody is gonna look at a Honda Civic and call it a truck bro. That's not whats happening here.
That wasn't the point.
Just like in certain areas all sodas are called coke ("they wouldn't say it was if it was clearly 'something else'" right?)
In other areas all soda is called "pop".
If for whatever reason a slang term, a colloquialism "whatever" caught on, then the name would change.
So the first "car" was not "car". It actually had other names, horseless carriage being one among many.
Vocabulary is basically a popularity contest. It explains why there is not just one dictionary that applies to all. Several different types with some words found in some but not others because the workers who put them together reach different conclusions sometimes.
Anne Curzan: What makes a word "real"?
Thing is, this isn't so much a direct evolution of meaning as a loss of one. It's applied inconsistently. As such, it becomes a useless descriptor, because it doesn't actually describe anything specific or consistent.
I agree with this premise. But I would say here is how the term MMO is going.
~80% of people who care about the term MMO understand it to mean a game where hundreds or thousands of players occupy the same world at the same time.
(Obviously if you ask your grandma who doesn't own a computer or someone who doesn't even speak English what MMO means their opinion doesn't matter because they aren't someone who would use or understand that phrase)
That other 20% tends to be people confusing the term because they have a stake in doing so, and those who see the people confusing the term as an "authority" on the term.
So I would not say this confusion has redefined the term because the buy-in by those who use the term is not high enough. Most of us still know what an MMO means, even if a few choose to consciously misuse that term.
First you should listen to video that was posted, it strikes exactly at the core of this discussion including "the two types of people, those are bothered by language fads/language change or those who find it interesting/fun as and something that should be studied as part of a living language".
Second I challenge your 80%. I don't even think it's that.
I think there is a group of people who were there at the start who need "MMO" to always be x. I also think there is a huge group of people, new players, players who perhaps came in With Elder Scrolls Online or any number of new games" who really don't care.
As I said before, go to a game conference and strike up some conversations. In my experience, for what it's worth, most people I spoke with knew a whopping 3 possibly 4 "MMO's" max (if they even knew them outside of World of Warcraft). This number has gone up.
The first time it was World of Warcraft, Star Wars the Old Republic and "oh yeah Everquest is the one that started it right?" This past PAX Elder Scrolls Online was a known factor though some people were just Elder Scrolls fans and didn't actually play it.
I also don't think everyone cares. I was there "close" to the beginning and I really don't care. I also recognize the idea of "a living language" as she puts it.
But the point is sort of moot because what is going to happen is going to happen. I think it would be sort of funny (in a sad way but in an interesting way) to find that "MMO" becomes a forgotten word. All this Sturm und Drang over something that in 20 years is as forgotten as Quadrycycle. Don't know what it is? Ask Henry Ford.
edit: I like your phrase "the buy in by those who use the term is not high enough". I think that speaks volumes.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If MMO fades and we just call it multiplayer.. Great! Then we're not intentionally applying label descriptors inconsistently.
Eldurian and I don't mind that technology may he rendering the distinction moot. We mind that folks are intentionally misapplying it or applying it all willy nilly for their own reasons. I honestly wouldn't be mad if Bill and the gang started covering all of the multiplayer shooters out there. Be my guest. But to cherry pick which are included and which aren't based on nothing but a feeling is dumb. It's going out of the way to make things less clear to the listener.
There's no reasoning or logic involved, but they "feel" it's right. That's the type of logical framework that put an overly tanned lizard in the White House.
I agree with this premise. But I would say here is how the term MMO is going.
~80% of people who care about the term MMO understand it to mean a game where hundreds or thousands of players occupy the same world at the same time.
(Obviously if you ask your grandma who doesn't own a computer or someone who doesn't even speak English what MMO means their opinion doesn't matter because they aren't someone who would use or understand that phrase)
That other 20% tends to be people confusing the term because they have a stake in doing so, and those who see the people confusing the term as an "authority" on the term.
So I would not say this confusion has redefined the term because the buy-in by those who use the term is not high enough. Most of us still know what an MMO means, even if a few choose to consciously misuse that term.
First you should listen to video that was posted, it strikes exactly at the core of this discussion including "the two types of people, those are bothered by language fads/language change or those who find it interesting/fun as and something that should be studied as part of a living language".
Second I challenge your 80%. I don't even think it's that.
I think there is a group of people who were there at the start who need "MMO" to always be x. I also think there is a huge group of people, new players, players who perhaps came in With Elder Scrolls Online or any number of new games" who really don't care.
As I said before, go to a game conference and strike up some conversations. In my experience, for what it's worth, most people I spoke with knew a whopping 3 possibly 4 "MMO's" max (if they even knew them outside of World of Warcraft). This number has gone up.
The first time it was World of Warcraft, Star Wars the Old Republic and "oh yeah Everquest is the one that started it right?" This past PAX Elder Scrolls Online was a known factor though some people were just Elder Scrolls fans and didn't actually play it.
I also don't think everyone cares. I was there "close" to the beginning and I really don't care. I also recognize the idea of "a living language" as she puts it.
But the point is sort of moot because what is going to happen is going to happen. I think it would be sort of funny (in a sad way but in an interesting way) to find that "MMO" becomes a forgotten word. All this Sturm und Drang over something that in 20 years is as forgotten as Quadrycycle. Don't know what it is? Ask Henry Ford.
edit: I like your phrase "the buy in by those who use the term is not high enough". I think that speaks volumes.
Suppose you created a game, say a mmo/mmorpg, would you label it as mmo/mmorpg in this environment or would you try to come up with a new name for it?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
First you should listen to video that was posted, it strikes exactly at the core of this discussion including "the two types of people, those are bothered by language fads/language change or those who find it interesting/fun as and something that should be studied as part of a living language".
Second I challenge your 80%. I don't even think it's that.
I think there is a group of people who were there at the start who need "MMO" to always be x. I also think there is a huge group of people, new players, players who perhaps came in With Elder Scrolls Online or any number of new games" who really don't care.
As I said before, go to a game conference and strike up some conversations. In my experience, for what it's worth, most people I spoke with knew a whopping 3 possibly 4 "MMO's" max (if they even knew them outside of World of Warcraft). This number has gone up.
The first time it was World of Warcraft, Star Wars the Old Republic and "oh yeah Everquest is the one that started it right?" This past PAX Elder Scrolls Online was a known factor though some people were just Elder Scrolls fans and didn't actually play it.
I also don't think everyone cares. I was there "close" to the beginning and I really don't care. I also recognize the idea of "a living language" as she puts it.
But the point is sort of moot because what is going to happen is going to happen. I think it would be sort of funny (in a sad way but in an interesting way) to find that "MMO" becomes a forgotten word. All this Sturm und Drang over something that in 20 years is as forgotten as Quadrycycle. Don't know what it is? Ask Henry Ford.
edit: I like your phrase "the buy in by those who use the term is not high enough". I think that speaks volumes.
Here is the thing. Like I said. Your grandma's opinion on what an MMO is doesn't matter because she doesn't use that term. Some guy in the congo who doesn't know an MMO from a chicken doesn't matter because he doesn't use the term.
What you are essentially arguing is "It's not 80% because a lot of people don't use the term." That logic doesn't compute. That simply means there are less people that the term matters to, not that there is more buy in to alternate usages of it. To those who the term matters, the meaning is understood.
I'm not going to go to a knitting club and argue that the meaning of some specific type of needle with a specific term doesn't matter because nobody knits anymore. To those who do knit, the term still matters.
And to those who do play and care about MMOs, the MASSIVELY in MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online game still matters. And those people by overwhelming majority understand it to mean hundreds or thousands of players occupying the same world, at the same time.
If MMO fades and we just call it multiplayer.. Great! Then we're not intentionally applying label descriptors inconsistently.
Eldurian and I don't mind that technology may he rendering the distinction moot. We mind that folks are intentionally misapplying it or applying it all willy nilly for their own reasons. I honestly wouldn't be mad if Bill and the gang started covering all of the multiplayer shooters out there. Be my guest. But to cherry pick which are included and which aren't based on nothing but a feeling is dumb. It's going out of the way to make things less clear to the listener.
There's no reasoning or logic involved, but they "feel" it's right. That's the type of logical framework that put an overly tanned lizard in the White House.
Did you check out that Video? Are you on the side of the guy who had an issue with Balcony. And Colonize!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Suppose you created a game, say a mmo/mmorpg, would you label it as mmo/mmorpg in this environment or would you try to come up with a new name for it?
If "I" were to do it and if it was a "game" with an open world, shared by multiple people simultaneously who all had a fairly even chance of interacting with each other and everything was all nice and persistent, I would call it an mmorpg.
But "I" was there close to the start and that term (Initialism whatever) has specific meaning to me.
However...
If, when the game was ready for announcement, I knew that "MMO" wasn't applicable anymore and it was something else, I would use that.
The whole idea of language is obviously to communicate and to communicate effectively.
So, 10 years ago MMO meant something. What will it mean 10 years from now?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If MMO fades and we just call it multiplayer.. Great! Then we're not intentionally applying label descriptors inconsistently.
Eldurian and I don't mind that technology may he rendering the distinction moot. We mind that folks are intentionally misapplying it or applying it all willy nilly for their own reasons. I honestly wouldn't be mad if Bill and the gang started covering all of the multiplayer shooters out there. Be my guest. But to cherry pick which are included and which aren't based on nothing but a feeling is dumb. It's going out of the way to make things less clear to the listener.
There's no reasoning or logic involved, but they "feel" it's right. That's the type of logical framework that put an overly tanned lizard in the White House.
That's because it's a catchphrase and not a term with a strict definition. Your interpretation works for you, but others have their own. The simple fact that no one, absolutely no one, can nail down a strict indisputable definition tells the entire tale right there.
Genres are descriptors. Call it a catchphrase if you like, muddying the definition destroys its usefulness as a descriptor. It's otherwise a useless term.
I mean, I've never used the acronym in reference to anything other than a specific type of game, have you?
Part of the issue is there are too many people trying to post information about anything they can on a website in order to make money. The whole concept of making a website based on getting the most views sucks IMO. In this day and age you can just block ads with software like adblock. I'm not sure how that generates revenue for the advertisers. Part of the issue is too many websites and part is too many MMOs that are free to play in general. I've noticed that people are far more nonchalant about gaming in this day and age. People were really putting it as a top priority in their life during the 90s and even early 2000s. I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it did have a special feeling during those times. So did early video games in the 80s.
So, 10 years ago MMO meant something. What will it mean 10 years from now?
Probably the same thing it means now if the term survives. Those who don't understand the term don't use the term for the most part. You don't hear MOBA players who have never played an MMO being like:
"LoL is such a great MMOBA."
You don't hear Halo players like:
"Halo is such a great MMOFPS."
Language belong to the people who use it. Understand that just because you speak the same primary language (English) does not mean you speak the same language.
If I go into a nursing home and start trying to carry on a conversation about troubleshooting a problem with the plugin for my content management system they are going to look at me like there are lobsters crawling out of my ears. If I go into the tech support office at my college and have the same conversation they will understand precisely what I am talking about.
So we might be speaking the same language in that nursing home, but we aren't speaking the same language.
Someone who's like "Well technically I think Diablo 3 would be an MMO" clearly is not speaking the same language. I doubt the term MMO is a part of their regular vocabulary that they use with any frequency.
I've been following MMORPG's since the 90's, and the climate around games has changed so much. For the record, this is by far my favorite website for MMORPG's, I feel like the staff here gives honest opinions, and that you can tell they love the genre. They have been honest about games not being MMO's that are listed on their site. I expect a certain amount of "marketing" tricks, and the ugly side of business on any website, and I find MMORPG.com isn't "worse" than any of the other sites out there, they need to generate revenue like any other business. I don't think the main faces like SBFord, or Bill have ever come across as lying to their viewers to get clicks. I can't say they've never lied, because I don't know them, but I think the product they put out always feels well thought out.
As @Iselin mentioned, the issue isn't about change. It's okay to have a debate about borderline titles due to technical improvements allowing devs to blur the line, but including titles such as MOBAs isn't debatable. They aren't, and the best argument for their inclusion has been either A) journalism leading the way, or B ) apathy about the distinction.
There's a simple resolution for both that doesn't include ignoring clear reality. As Iselin mentioned, I don't think it's done maliciously on the part of journalists. But they haven't done much to clarify or correct it, either.
Yeah but language doesn't evolve because of "strict rules" and adherence to protocol.
So if Journalists and developers and marketers are adding to that definition and they succeed then it's a done deal.
If I walk out of my house and call a car a truck and for some reason it catches on and more and more people start doing it then forever more it will be a truck.
So then its up to MMORPG "purists" to resist this scourge.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
F*** that guy. Put in HALF the work the staff here has for over a decade, then talk to me.
This. 'Nough said.
I've worked on a few gaming sites too, once even with Bill on LOTRO Vault.
That guy making that video is so full of shit... but he's like many others of this "I want everything, for free, and with no drawbacks and no ads" generation.
I just have a question though... since some poster(s) I won't name in this post are abusing your game list and use it to pretend even Diablo 3 is a MMORPG even if it's not labeled as such in your very list, why aren't they punished for doing so? I've been warned for quite stupid things (some others well deserved of course), but those guy(s) keep coming back the the same crap over and over again. Are they your cousins or something?
Before you go down that route Jean-Luc think about where it will lead, I think any good person would see that we need a truth and reconciliation process to bring posters together. Not punish each other but embark on a journey of self discovery and forgiveness.
Either that or just realise as you said the guy making the video is full of it and we are too up our own arses about the definition of a MMO, including me.
On the one hand it's truly sad how much these fake mmo sites have watered down the acronym.
On the other hand mmo devs have delivered such garbage for the past decade, these sites literally have nothing to talk about. So it's either throw in the towel or pretend Diablo 3 news belongs here until something decent arrives.
Well, if you want to get picky...
Initialism...MMO is an initialism, not an acronym.
/endsubtlepoint
I have never heard of this distinction before....thanks for the grammatical tip.
I didn't know the difference either and had to look it up.
The funny part. After the top 3 or 4 useful entries explaining the difference were sites, blogs, forums, and social media entries for people arguing over what belonged under each category. Each explains why putting things in boxes their way is the right way. My favorite question, "If you pronounce an initialism as a word does it become an acronym?" with the ensuing enlightening comment chain.
It was like a creepy parallel world that mirrors ours only with grammar as their game instead of games. I'm fairly certain those people are being punished for something.
"Each explains why putting things in boxes their way is the right way."
However, there really shouldn't be an argument. If you can pronounce the letters like a word, it's an acronym. If you say each letter separately, it's an initialism. People don't say CPU as 'cuh-poo'. It's a pretty simple rule, although it doesn't stop elitist snobs from arguing about it.
Seems eerily similar to the MMO definition argument, yes?
Which is why I posted it. Obviously too subtle for some, it seems.
Comments
I think getting rid of the Ad driven websites would be better. Maybe charge a subscription feed like The Athletic does whom I will be subscribing here too in the next month when I get other things taken care off. For $3.99 a month for real good Journalism and not pushing the paid corporate line from CEOs I would be more into the content. It would also be nice to see sites like MMORPG, partner with other sights and offer memberships to their sites for a low fee.
Right now having the CEOs of Blizzard, EA, and the rest of the publishers out there push their agenda onto MMORPG.com so guys like Bill can make a living off this. While I agree Bill should make a living, the method does a huge disservice to the industry. The MMORPG Genre is a mess right now because of this. When the CEO of EA pushed all the sites to make SWTOR into a WOW killer, what was the TRUE outcome of that? SWTOR shown how bad of a game it was, how much money EA and Bioware spent on the game that never made a good profit. Its because EA and Bioware management pushed an agenda that was designed to make the CEO and Stockholders money not a great game for MMORPG and Starwars fans.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
IMO, it is the price they have to pay to not leave their mommies basement! ha
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
~80% of people who care about the term MMO understand it to mean a game where hundreds or thousands of players occupy the same world at the same time.
(Obviously if you ask your grandma who doesn't own a computer or someone who doesn't even speak English what MMO means their opinion doesn't matter because they aren't someone who would use or understand that phrase)
That other 20% tends to be people confusing the term because they have a stake in doing so, and those who see the people confusing the term as an "authority" on the term.
So I would not say this confusion has redefined the term because the buy-in by those who use the term is not high enough. Most of us still know what an MMO means, even if a few choose to consciously misuse that term.
While it's understandable that there isn't enough MMO games to cover, report on or even advertise. I, like many came here all the time for MMO updates, witty yet informative articles and the general news about MMOs (new games, patches, dev reports etc.).
Something inside me died the day Bill made the announcement that souls were being sold (people gotta eat, I get it).
The OP has a point though, a great many sites, pages, forums really need to drop they're MMO name and display their goals honestly.
My 2 cents, we are all allowed opinions.
No trials. No tricks. No traps. No EU-RP server. NO THANKS!
...10% Benevolence, 90% Arrogance in my case!
Second I challenge your 80%. I don't even think it's that.
I think there is a group of people who were there at the start who need "MMO" to always be x. I also think there is a huge group of people, new players, players who perhaps came in With Elder Scrolls Online or any number of new games" who really don't care.
As I said before, go to a game conference and strike up some conversations. In my experience, for what it's worth, most people I spoke with knew a whopping 3 possibly 4 "MMO's" max (if they even knew them outside of World of Warcraft). This number has gone up.
The first time it was World of Warcraft, Star Wars the Old Republic and "oh yeah Everquest is the one that started it right?" This past PAX Elder Scrolls Online was a known factor though some people were just Elder Scrolls fans and didn't actually play it.
I also don't think everyone cares. I was there "close" to the beginning and I really don't care. I also recognize the idea of "a living language" as she puts it.
But the point is sort of moot because what is going to happen is going to happen. I think it would be sort of funny (in a sad way but in an interesting way) to find that "MMO" becomes a forgotten word. All this Sturm und Drang over something that in 20 years is as forgotten as Quadrycycle. Don't know what it is? Ask Henry Ford.
edit: I like your phrase "the buy in by those who use the term is not high enough". I think that speaks volumes.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Eldurian and I don't mind that technology may he rendering the distinction moot. We mind that folks are intentionally misapplying it or applying it all willy nilly for their own reasons. I honestly wouldn't be mad if Bill and the gang started covering all of the multiplayer shooters out there. Be my guest. But to cherry pick which are included and which aren't based on nothing but a feeling is dumb. It's going out of the way to make things less clear to the listener.
There's no reasoning or logic involved, but they "feel" it's right. That's the type of logical framework that put an overly tanned lizard in the White House.
Suppose you created a game, say a mmo/mmorpg, would you label it as mmo/mmorpg in this environment or would you try to come up with a new name for it?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
What you are essentially arguing is "It's not 80% because a lot of people don't use the term." That logic doesn't compute. That simply means there are less people that the term matters to, not that there is more buy in to alternate usages of it. To those who the term matters, the meaning is understood.
I'm not going to go to a knitting club and argue that the meaning of some specific type of needle with a specific term doesn't matter because nobody knits anymore. To those who do knit, the term still matters.
And to those who do play and care about MMOs, the MASSIVELY in MASSIVELY Multiplayer Online game still matters. And those people by overwhelming majority understand it to mean hundreds or thousands of players occupying the same world, at the same time.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But "I" was there close to the start and that term (Initialism whatever) has specific meaning to me.
However...
If, when the game was ready for announcement, I knew that "MMO" wasn't applicable anymore and it was something else, I would use that.
The whole idea of language is obviously to communicate and to communicate effectively.
So, 10 years ago MMO meant something. What will it mean 10 years from now?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I mean, I've never used the acronym in reference to anything other than a specific type of game, have you?
"LoL is such a great MMOBA."
You don't hear Halo players like:
"Halo is such a great MMOFPS."
Language belong to the people who use it. Understand that just because you speak the same primary language (English) does not mean you speak the same language.
If I go into a nursing home and start trying to carry on a conversation about troubleshooting a problem with the plugin for my content management system they are going to look at me like there are lobsters crawling out of my ears. If I go into the tech support office at my college and have the same conversation they will understand precisely what I am talking about.
So we might be speaking the same language in that nursing home, but we aren't speaking the same language.
Someone who's like "Well technically I think Diablo 3 would be an MMO" clearly is not speaking the same language. I doubt the term MMO is a part of their regular vocabulary that they use with any frequency.
I expect a certain amount of "marketing" tricks, and the ugly side of business on any website, and I find MMORPG.com isn't "worse" than any of the other sites out there, they need to generate revenue like any other business. I don't think the main faces like SBFord, or Bill have ever come across as lying to their viewers to get clicks. I can't say they've never lied, because I don't know them, but I think the product they put out always feels well thought out.
"Purge and Purify!"
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Before you go down that route Jean-Luc think about where it will lead, I think any good person would see that we need a truth and reconciliation process to bring posters together. Not punish each other but embark on a journey of self discovery and forgiveness.
Either that or just realise as you said the guy making the video is full of it and we are too up our own arses about the definition of a MMO, including me.
However, there really shouldn't be an argument. If you can pronounce the letters like a word, it's an acronym. If you say each letter separately, it's an initialism. People don't say CPU as 'cuh-poo'. It's a pretty simple rule, although it doesn't stop elitist snobs from arguing about it.
Seems eerily similar to the MMO definition argument, yes?
Which is why I posted it. Obviously too subtle for some, it seems.
~~ postlarval ~~
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
~~ postlarval ~~
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo