Looking forward to it (if for no other reason than to explore the world), but definitely needs a LOT of balance tuning... i.e. From that video, simply getting to the boss seemed a far greater challenge (and accomplishment) than defeating the boss themselves... and for a game with XP loss and corpse runs the combat balance at the moment seems to be largely face-roll snooze-fest or dead in <2 secs, with 'flawless' pulls required for a hope of anything between.
I'm looking forward to being part of a community again, where people actually talk...use strategy and thinking..instead of rushing through everything because they think they are "beating da game". What they don't realize in their mad rush to end cap is that they have missed 90% of what the game is all about. So why do Devs put all that hard work into building game worlds, if the hyperactive types want to rush past it all just to brag for five minutes they hit level cap, then quit the game to go onto the next shiny? There are lots of games out there that cater to those with short attention spans. Pantheon will be different.
The way playerbase played in 1999-2003 is dead and gone.
I played EQ1 in a top raiding guild for 7 years, I started in March of 1999 at launch.
Talking back in the day - text, chat - talking today - discord - top guilds even from back in the day have all abandoned in-game chat
Rushing to the end game is going to happen in Pantheon - that's what my guild is INTENDING to do - because we all know the mechanics of how Pantheon works - it's 90% the same mechanics of EQ1 so we know that
1. Get to max level ASAP is important because levels = power
2. Unless gear is end game gear - don't waste any time obtaining it, use gear that is sufficient enough to get you to max level
3. The first guilds to get to end game will profit off mechanics that developer has not intended nor forseen - these get patched and players who come after will experience a nerfed version, so it pays huge to be in the first wave.
4. Use alphas/betas as ways of learning the optimal way to min/max - this is what will enable top guilds to outlevel and outgear the masses 10x-20x faster
Again you overestimate how guilds play today - strategy and thinking - lol - when you know the mechanics, have pre-assigned classes and group roles and members who already knwo the game from alpha/beta as well as members that have played EQ1 for many years ... come on.
Players today are not EQ1 noobs anymore
P.S. - obviously not all guilds in Pantheon will be ultra-competitive end-game guilds, so players that want to take it slow and casual - I am sure that will exist as well
You're right, players today are not EQ1 noobs, they're just more asshole like with zero respect for others and are extremely self centered. That's a major issue with today's MMO generation. All about me. If you do not think so, than we can agree to disagree.
It's a little early to be speculating that the game is "90% the same as EQ". We have no idea what the game holds. Only what we've seen in videos and things will change in some shape or form, and/or improve.
I used to be one of those individuals that would rush to max level and all it did was make me realize how much of the game I actually missed. Yes, levels do = power but when you rush, you get burnt out and get to the top only to realize the top is a very small percentage of the game you're playing and what's that result in? Players bitching that there's no content, blah blah blah. Its the PLAYERS fault if that ends up happening and I know this because I've taken part in it.
Totally agree. I have never raided in MMO's (well maybe once or twice and hated it) and never will.
Complete waste of time. I like the leveling experience a lot more, mixed with running regular dungeons now and then.
That's why FFXIV is one of my favorite MMO's at the moment. Good story for leveling (Heavensward is one of the best MMO expacs I have ever played story wise) and running some regular dungeons to get some nice gear. Good enough for me.
It's also why I enjoy Elder Scrolls Online at the moment. Just taking my time leveling through the story lines. Good enough for me here too.
With a full time job and having a family, that's about it what I can do anyway along with some nice single player RPG's. (now totally absorbed into God of War on the PS4 at the moment. Fantastic game)
Even as someone who backed this game I am honestly excited for its release just so that the "hardcore" crowd can eat crow.
I bet within a month the forums here, official forums, and subreddit will be full of the same people talking a big game now crying about those same features. and/or how there's nobody to play with.
Never seen the amount of contrarian arguments that I see in this thread. At one point I was excited for Pantheon but the community has filled out with pricks *shrug*
These comments have turned into who is the "most oldschool" player here... kinda pathetic considering the age of some of you folk.
That's a rather odd take on it. I think it has to do with "what constitutes an old school game" and what are players' expectations for an old school game.
Since the developers are expressly making an "old school game" that is going to mean a certain thing or at least bring up expectations.
That's going to be a plus or a minus to players depending on how they see things.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Even as someone who backed this game I am honestly excited for its release just so that the "hardcore" crowd can eat crow.
I bet within a month the forums here, official forums, and subreddit will be full of the same people talking a big game now crying about those same features. and/or how there's nobody to play with.
Never seen the amount of contrarian arguments that I see in this thread. At one point I was excited for Pantheon but the community has filled out with pricks *shrug*
This is certainly a danger, maybe not within a single month, but within a year. The newness factor is very likely to draw a sizable crowd, maybe even that magic 1.5 million that even Brad seems to want, but no one can actually point a finger at now. The real test, and what is likely to fuel your scenario, is likely to happen at the 3, 6 or 12 month barriers, i.e., when the longer term subscription renewals run out.
Retention is a very serious thing for businesses. VR will need something beyond the appeal of nostalgia to keep the players it manages to draw. I hope they have a formula to cause people to renew subscriptions at a healthy rate. I don't like seeing any game close up shop. (and I don't want to miss out on a possible Family Guy take on Pantheon -- South Park did WoW, Simpsons did EQ, FG is about the only thing left with a potent parody punch).
I don't doubt you are right in this regard. Pantheon will not be able to live up to some people's expectations. If you look closely enough, some of the rabid supporters are beginning to echo some of the questions non-supporters have asked. When people's expectations aren't met, well, feelings get hurt and social media happens.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
The whole sitting, stopping the group is not about "being hardcore". That's about resource management AND small spots for socializing.
Players don't socialize because there really aren't opportunities during game play for people to just chat.
People used to interact waiting for in game transportation. Incorporate fast travel and that is gone.
People used to chat during downtime. Take that away and that is gone.
People used to chat so they could arrange for a craft or ask for help with a mob or quest. Take that away and again, "that's gone.
As the Pantheon developers said, players will always take the "easiest" fastest route, easiest for xp if that is solo. That is why it's more of a group game.
For me, blasting through a dungeon at hyper speed is what's boring.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
If I ever use Discord while gaming, it's merely to idle for no reason other than someone conned me into joining a certain channel.
I have little interest in actually hearing the voices of folks humblebragging (either that or bitching about game mechanics) back and forth for hours, which is 75% of what guild voice chat turns into.
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
If I ever use Discord while gaming, it's merely to idle for no reason other than someone conned me into joining a certain channel.
I have little interest in actually hearing the voices of folks humblebragging (either that or bitching about game mechanics) back and forth for hours, which is 75% of what guild voice chat turns into.
And then there are the people who just talk to hear themselves talk.
"going to auction house now".
erm great, so what?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's a little early to be speculating that the game is "90% the same as EQ". We have no idea what the game holds. Only what we've seen in videos and things will change in some shape or form, and/or improve.
On the contrary we have a very clear idea of what type of game Pantheon is - look at all the videos so far - it's crystal clear what the gameplay mechanics are.
Not sure how you are not seeing this, it's as plain as day.
I understand it's taking emphasis from Vanguard and Everquest but to put an actual number on it such as 90%? Come on... Baseline, yes it's similar to EQ and I like that it is but to say its 90% is like saying the game is an exact replica.
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
If I ever use Discord while gaming, it's merely to idle for no reason other than someone conned me into joining a certain channel.
I have little interest in actually hearing the voices of folks humblebragging (either that or bitching about game mechanics) back and forth for hours, which is 75% of what guild voice chat turns into.
And then there are the people who just talk to hear themselves talk.
"going to auction house now".
erm great, so what?
Not to mention what happens 90% of the time as soon as a female voice is heard in the channel. As mainstream as gaming is nowadays, so many gamers still turn into bumbling idiots at the sound of a girl's voice.
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
If I ever use Discord while gaming, it's merely to idle for no reason other than someone conned me into joining a certain channel.
I have little interest in actually hearing the voices of folks humblebragging (either that or bitching about game mechanics) back and forth for hours, which is 75% of what guild voice chat turns into.
And then there are the people who just talk to hear themselves talk.
"going to auction house now".
erm great, so what?
Not to mention what happens 90% of the time as soon as a female voice is heard in the channel. As mainstream as gaming is nowadays, so many gamers still turn into bumbling idiots at the sound of a girl's voice.
I haven't had the pleasure of that show as the guilds I've been a part of were adults, many of them married and essentially people who actually got outside and knew that women actually existed.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
You just "blast through dungeons"? All dungeons? What dungeons?
Well, off the top of my head, every dungeon area in Dungeons and Dragon's online and every open dungeon delve that I had been part of a group in Elder Scrolls Online.
I didn't have that issue in L2 or in vanguard.
But I can only speak to my experience.
I would also add several dungeons in Lord of the Rings online but those were pickup groups and not guild groups.
I was part of a dungeon run, one with the large turtle boss, and we could never get a well rounded party so people who joined us were pissy that we were taking too long to get through it. They all ended up leaving and eventually it was just 3 original people, hours later, actually finishing the thing. We had no problem making our way through carefully as we mostly didn't have a healer.
As far as the whole "sitting thing" well, "this game" has it so if people have issue with it then hope that the devs change it otherwise get used to it.
Doesn't bother me.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
i wonder how people can still be tempted by this stand and fight mechanics nowadays ^^
Personally i prefer toe to toe combat over twitch...it wears me out to have to hop and jump around all the time.
While I prefer more "action" combat in that if I hit I hit if I dodge, I dodge, I don't like the uber fast paced jump all around, zip here and there and cover everything with lights combat that some games have.
More like Mount and Blade or maybe even Dark Souls.
Toe to toe is fine with me as well.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sorry but sitting down doing nothing during a fight isn't "hardcore". It is boring, period. Some old school mechanics were better left 15+ years ago.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
If I ever use Discord while gaming, it's merely to idle for no reason other than someone conned me into joining a certain channel.
I have little interest in actually hearing the voices of folks humblebragging (either that or bitching about game mechanics) back and forth for hours, which is 75% of what guild voice chat turns into.
And then there are the people who just talk to hear themselves talk.
"going to auction house now".
erm great, so what?
Not to mention what happens 90% of the time as soon as a female voice is heard in the channel. As mainstream as gaming is nowadays, so many gamers still turn into bumbling idiots at the sound of a girl's voice.
This happened to me in EQ2...We had a decent chat until a new player joined and it was a young girl.... After that I didnt want to use voice chat anymore....The chat turned fro mwaht is our strategy to what are you wearing and what are you doing tonight baby
i wonder how people can still be tempted by this stand and fight mechanics nowadays ^^
Personally i prefer toe to toe combat over twitch...it wears me out to have to hop and jump around all the time.
While I prefer more "action" combat in that if I hit I hit if I dodge, I dodge, I don't like the uber fast paced jump all around, zip here and there and cover everything with lights combat that some games have.
More like Mount and Blade or maybe even Dark Souls.
Toe to toe is fine with me as well.
Mount and Blade did have awesome combat, that was a blast.
The gameplay, classes, and UI looked like something straight out of EQ. With better graphics.
This is a good thing in my opinion. EQ is, by far, my favorite MMORPG and I have been asking for nothing more than an EQ-like experience with improved graphics.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
At some point, VR is going to need to appeal to a different market. After all, those EQ1 and UO and AC players that abandoned the original old-school games aren't going to come back. They have experienced new things, different things. The light of nostalgia doesn't make the old ideas better, it has always been a short term phenomena.
Besides, what company wants to rely on a core market that has already proven to be so fickle?
Fickle?
My wife and I still have active EQ subscriptions and log 20+ hours a week.
That may not be much compared to 10 years ago, when we spent 40+ hours a week raiding, but who has the time available that they did 10 years ago.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
I feel sorry for people that have waited years following this game only to get this.
What amazes me are the people who have openly said in their own words "Pantheon is not for me" Yet every chance they get they have to reply to a Pantheon thread and keep repeating themselves over and over again... ha ha, I can only laugh and wonder what sheer amount of boredom must one posses to keep doing this. Why would they keep looking into a game that they do not want to play???? We get it, they want something "different" and "innovative" guess what, we don't. We want a new world that has the same mechanics and consequences and interdependence of classic EQ.
You just "blast through dungeons"? All dungeons? What dungeons?
Well, off the top of my head, every dungeon area in Dungeons and Dragon's online and every open dungeon delve that I had been part of a group in Elder Scrolls Online.
When people are new at a game and don't have a lot of experience with the mechanics you need to go slower and strategize simply because you're not sure what to expect, what works and what doesn't. That is a function of unfamiliarity not game design.
This happens in ESO as well when you get new players doing a dungeon for the first time (a real dungeon, not delves ) but you get an experienced group that has run this dungeon 10s of times and the speed of the run increase without a word being spoken about strategy simply because all know exactly what to do.
The only place in ESO where there are a lot of active conversations about strategy and tactics is in Cyrodiil PVP because the nature of that game play is emergent and each battle is different. Not everyone uses voice chat there but it is best because the situation can change quickly and coordinated fast reactions to new threats are needed.
That is an example of the type of game play that demands communication and it does so just as much now as it did 4 years ago. It does so organically and the speed of combat has very little to do with the need to do it.
If you think the slow pace of combat in Pantheon fighting against predictable canned AI is a secret sauce for players to once again start behaving in an MMO the way they did 20 years ago, I think you will be very disappointed.
Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.
Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear.
Now, the slow pace of the game will probably give you more time to talk about the weather in Peoria than the faster paced games do. This is true and it might be something some of you are looking forward to. Me? My preferred in game chat is game related.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Comments
Totally agree. I have never raided in MMO's (well maybe once or twice and hated it) and never will.
Complete waste of time. I like the leveling experience a lot more, mixed with running regular dungeons now and then.
That's why FFXIV is one of my favorite MMO's at the moment. Good story for leveling (Heavensward is one of the best MMO expacs I have ever played story wise) and running some regular dungeons to get some nice gear. Good enough for me.
It's also why I enjoy Elder Scrolls Online at the moment. Just taking my time leveling through the story lines. Good enough for me here too.
With a full time job and having a family, that's about it what I can do anyway along with some nice single player RPG's. (now totally absorbed into God of War on the PS4 at the moment. Fantastic game)
I bet within a month the forums here, official forums, and subreddit will be full of the same people talking a big game now crying about those same features. and/or how there's nobody to play with.
Never seen the amount of contrarian arguments that I see in this thread. At one point I was excited for Pantheon but the community has filled out with pricks *shrug*
Since the developers are expressly making an "old school game" that is going to mean a certain thing or at least bring up expectations.
That's going to be a plus or a minus to players depending on how they see things.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Retention is a very serious thing for businesses. VR will need something beyond the appeal of nostalgia to keep the players it manages to draw. I hope they have a formula to cause people to renew subscriptions at a healthy rate. I don't like seeing any game close up shop. (and I don't want to miss out on a possible Family Guy take on Pantheon -- South Park did WoW, Simpsons did EQ, FG is about the only thing left with a potent parody punch).
I don't doubt you are right in this regard. Pantheon will not be able to live up to some people's expectations. If you look closely enough, some of the rabid supporters are beginning to echo some of the questions non-supporters have asked. When people's expectations aren't met, well, feelings get hurt and social media happens.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
As to the people who say they are going to sit around and plan strategies in groups I don't buy it. 20 years ago in EQ when I played the thoughts of internet chatting was still new. Now days I have multiple discord servers. People just don't socialize nowdays like they did then.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
The whole sitting, stopping the group is not about "being hardcore". That's about resource management AND small spots for socializing.
Players don't socialize because there really aren't opportunities during game play for people to just chat.
People used to interact waiting for in game transportation. Incorporate fast travel and that is gone.
People used to chat during downtime. Take that away and that is gone.
People used to chat so they could arrange for a craft or ask for help with a mob or quest. Take that away and again, "that's gone.
As the Pantheon developers said, players will always take the "easiest" fastest route, easiest for xp if that is solo. That is why it's more of a group game.
For me, blasting through a dungeon at hyper speed is what's boring.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I have little interest in actually hearing the voices of folks humblebragging (either that or bitching about game mechanics) back and forth for hours, which is 75% of what guild voice chat turns into.
"going to auction house now".
erm great, so what?
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Come on Kano, you're smarter than that.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I didn't have that issue in L2 or in vanguard.
But I can only speak to my experience.
I would also add several dungeons in Lord of the Rings online but those were pickup groups and not guild groups.
I was part of a dungeon run, one with the large turtle boss, and we could never get a well rounded party so people who joined us were pissy that we were taking too long to get through it. They all ended up leaving and eventually it was just 3 original people, hours later, actually finishing the thing. We had no problem making our way through carefully as we mostly didn't have a healer.
As far as the whole "sitting thing" well, "this game" has it so if people have issue with it then hope that the devs change it otherwise get used to it.
Doesn't bother me.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
More like Mount and Blade or maybe even Dark Souls.
Toe to toe is fine with me as well.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
This is a good thing in my opinion. EQ is, by far, my favorite MMORPG and I have been asking for nothing more than an EQ-like experience with improved graphics.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
My wife and I still have active EQ subscriptions and log 20+ hours a week.
That may not be much compared to 10 years ago, when we spent 40+ hours a week raiding, but who has the time available that they did 10 years ago.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
This happens in ESO as well when you get new players doing a dungeon for the first time (a real dungeon, not delves
The only place in ESO where there are a lot of active conversations about strategy and tactics is in Cyrodiil PVP because the nature of that game play is emergent and each battle is different. Not everyone uses voice chat there but it is best because the situation can change quickly and coordinated fast reactions to new threats are needed.
That is an example of the type of game play that demands communication and it does so just as much now as it did 4 years ago. It does so organically and the speed of combat has very little to do with the need to do it.
If you think the slow pace of combat in Pantheon fighting against predictable canned AI is a secret sauce for players to once again start behaving in an MMO the way they did 20 years ago, I think you will be very disappointed.
Kano has already told you how he and his mates plan of blasting through Pantheon the same way they blast through BDO. And they will do this simply because they will know what to do and what works since that is their motivation for playing alphas and betas: to learn how to go zoom.
Now you may think that he is the exception but in fact he's not. The reality will be that as you become more and more familiar with the game's canned AI behaviors your need to go slow and strategize will disappear.
Now, the slow pace of the game will probably give you more time to talk about the weather in Peoria than the faster paced games do. This is true and it might be something some of you are looking forward to. Me? My preferred in game chat is game related.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED