I will be playing Classic WOW for a while, though if Ashes of Creation gives me what I want I will jump to that. I am done playing today's MMORPG Trash because they are nothing but glorified single player games. I have not played an MMORPG in a year now and I am very happy with that. If I wanted to play a single player game I would just stick to TotalWar Warhammer. Problem is MMORPGs today do not force people to become better, and play with other people. They are all about button mashing action combat and Fast Food content. I hate that play style, I always have and always will.
I think some people are spot on in this thread, I will be one of the ones that will absolutely try WoW classic, I do have a lot of fond memories of those days and I think the experience was really good.
But in retrospect I also acknowledge that it was the spare time I had, the people I played with that made it great too, I just don't think I have the willpower to go through the whole 40 man raiding dance all over again, the having to schedule my life around being online day in day out and farm stuff. I mean the same could be said about the next expansion which no doubt I will buy and play for a few months and then it will slowly fade away again.
I think this might be the same experience for a lot of people, but from Blizzard's perspective as long as there is a healthy population and brings a few people back long term it probably is worth it financially.
Wacraft is a great gaming brand and it hasn't reached its full potential, but I don't see Classic servers as the big renaissance of Warcraft. I think at some point we might see a new Warcraft product that will probably change the paradigm again and revitalize the brand, however I suspect that it won't be an MMO in the same vein that WoW was or is today.
we had classic, we finished it, we wanted more and new content.
and that's what we got. a developed game over the years.
hell, the lady is what now, 14 years old? how many 14 year old games are still being played by a mass like that? blizz did what they do best.
and those few (max) 100k users surely won't be important for WoW, and neither make it stay alive any longer if you ask me.
actually, i think "vanilla" wow had one instance and no raids. they were patched. so... those people don't want a classic server (unless they love to be stunlocked) or even a vanilla server, they just don't know what they want.
if they REALLY wanted it, they'd pay, most of them actually expect to get them for free, mb even without sub...
and for the record, neither the mining bug nor connection probs or any other starter bug they had in the game that days was fun believe me, you do NOT want classic nowadays.
PS: in b4 you guys start crying about the waterlords farm/grind part
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
i wish people will stop trying to tell me what the hell i like and dont, i LIKE VANILLA WOW , I PREFER IT TO CURRENT WOW, AND I WILL PLAY IT AGAIN FOR YEARS ONCE ITS RELEASED, current wow sucks go play it it u love it so much
Pure comedy....
Enjoy your game....don't let people disagreeing with you get you so wound up.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The more I think about it the more I fear they'll make it more like modern WoW than launch WoW. If they end up making it more like launch WoW I'll probably just pvp and craft cause I got pretty sick of raids in the end. If they let you stop xp at 19, 29, 39, etc(yes, I know that wasn't a launch feature) I'll probably just create a few twinks and do those + just farm low level items from low level dungeons to sell.
i wish people will stop trying to tell me what the hell i like and dont, i LIKE VANILLA WOW , I PREFER IT TO CURRENT WOW, AND I WILL PLAY IT AGAIN FOR YEARS ONCE ITS RELEASED, current wow sucks go play it it u love it so much
lol, I agree! I don't care if people say most won't like it . . or that they won't like it. When they say no one will like it or that I won't I just scratch my head. I suppose they are just being over theatrical to make their opinion have some weight or feel some forum PvP going. . personally I like the classic forum PvP before all of these changes that were made to placate the masses.
I dont think so
In less then a month a huge majorrity will realise that todays gameplay is so much better.
Combat, classes, bossmobs .. and so many things that weren't in Vanilla.
We all will try and most will quickly realise... the game has evolved for the good...
I have a whole toher take on classic servers..
Make them part of the current WoW game..
Bring them all back to max level..
And allow people to play Vanilla as a timetravel destination..
To make it even better, add some diablo style to it..
So people can choose from several difficulty levels.
Also let them choose between PvE and PvP
And add some form of progression, so content opens further based on progression...
This allows people to replay full expansions for the content
While enjoying that as part as a 2018 game..
instead of playing the 2004 game..
As much as i loved Vanilla...
I also can still see and feel it flaws..
So maybe Blizzard should make us a better vanilla experience
and me.. i am allready looking forward to Wrath of the Lichking..
Combat? Its the same now as it was then. There are a few extra classes now but most people feel the existing classes were better then.
I have zero desire to play a stagnant game with no hope of ever turning into something new, so i won't play vanilla. But Vanilla will do very well and will have multiple servers running for years. It will have an enormous amount of people that get bored and realize that its partially nostalgia clouding judgment, but it will be a long term draw for sure.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
There is a correct way to handle classic servers and we'll see whether Blizzard in all their glory can figure it out.
Well, no, we really won't. No matter what Blizz does, the whole "they didn't do it the right way" argument is the ultimate get out of jail free card when Vanilla servers inevitably crater.
The curse of the gamer chattering classes is that the game in your head is always better than what actually comes out. Thus any failure -- real or perceived -- is because things weren't done "right" and not that the idea itself was based on false assumptions, was impractical, or just plain flawed to hell and back.
long term success is a crap shoot but i can tell you exactly what the servers would be>>>A RACE. I want to see my name as the server first to kill so and so,i want to be the best pvp,highest rated player and when all comes crashing down and i begin to realize i am just a pawn,i quit and go back to regular servers or quit altogether. When gamer's come to realize that a MMOrpg is not about ME ME ME,then they will see the genre in a totally different light and likely also quit playing Wow.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
1. Blizzard could redo the expansions with the old ruleset but current quality graphics - @DMKano suggests this could indeed now be the plan.
2. Issues around the launch.
2a. How do you guard against a meltdown of the existing servers? Sure some people may have no interest but if 30% or 50% or 70% of a current server or a guild leaves for a month or three .... and some never return at what point will they have to rejig the server groups? This has happened in the past with other games. DAoC launched classic and there was pain. SoE failed to manage the EQ1 / EQ2 issue. etc.
2b. What do you use to estimate launch day capacity? OK these days you can hire server capacity (cloud) - will they do this? Do they use the current playerbase though? Or base it off the 100M+ subscribers they have lost - maybe weighted to reflect when they last played and how long they played for. OK 100M+ worldwide number but that just highlights that: 2c. They have partners who operate the game in other countries. They need to talk to them as well. Will it be rolled out worldwide? If so - and if they are hiring cloud servers in the short term - are the partners prepared to do this - and pay for the cost? And so on.
Possible options might include: - only WoW subscribers get to play classic; - access to classic could be through current WoW; - some sort of sign up (enlist to protect the past!) could be put in motion - in advance of launch - priority could be given to those who sign up. Which touches on whether it will be one game or two.
Especially as - I assume - a sub will be needed. I would also assume that the one sub will cover both games (CoH + CoV style).
And then forward you have the whole one team vs. two team question. Especially if its only 1 sub which means one revenue source.
1. Blizzard could redo the expansions with the old ruleset but current quality graphics - @DMKano suggests this could indeed now be the plan.
2. Issues around the launch.
2a. How do you guard against a meltdown of the existing servers? Sure some people may have no interest but if 30% or 50% or 70% of a current server or a guild leaves for a month or three .... and some never return at what point will they have to rejig the server groups? This has happened in the past with other games. DAoC launched classic and there was pain. SoE failed to manage the EQ1 / EQ2 issue. etc.
2b. What do you use to estimate launch day capacity? OK these days you can hire server capacity (cloud) - will they do this? Do they use the current playerbase though? Or base it off the 100M+ subscribers they have lost - maybe weighted to reflect when they last played and how long they played for. OK 100M+ worldwide number but that just highlights that: 2c. They have partners who operate the game in other countries. They need to talk to them as well. Will it be rolled out worldwide? If so - and if they are hiring cloud servers in the short term - are the partners prepared to do this - and pay for the cost? And so on.
Possible options might include: - only WoW subscribers get to play classic; - access to classic could be through current WoW; - some sort of sign up (enlist to protect the past!) could be put in motion - in advance of launch - priority could be given to those who sign up. Which touches on whether it will be one game or two.
Especially as - I assume - a sub will be needed. I would also assume that the one sub will cover both games (CoH + CoV style).
And then forward you have the whole one team vs. two team question. Especially if its only 1 sub which means one revenue source.
Easy to see why some people wanted a quiet life!
To me its a no-brainer, Classic WoW is just part of your WoW sub.
As far as the server tech goes? I personally have no idea.
I have a LOT of friends who would love to play WoW classic-wotlk again including some who never played it proper. Thousands played on numerous private servers and many of them are willing to spend for a proper experience. However players want it back like it was in classic-wotlk, not a dumbed down version that just happens to be in that level range but they also would like to keep the updated graphics and models which isn't that hard actually.
Also you can look at how SoE did the EQ2 Time Release Expansion to see the popularity of such things and the risks. EQ2 TLE was widely popular and many old inactive accounts renewed for 3+ months to play it. The problems came down to SoE cash cowing it with for fast leveling and kept many of the changes made in later expacs that made EQ2 classic far to easy and quick to level. Without even trying to grind people would hit cap w/o experiencing some of the biggest classic content things like Heirlooms and when they took a sidetrip for them they would out level them within days because of how ultra quick and easy things where especially considering combined resists that didn't exist for the first couple expacs. In essence it was seen their flaw was NOT offering a real classic experience but just the content with a level cap which made everything including raid progression a joke.
Given Blizzard's track record, anyone who thinks their version of classic is anything like Blizzard's version is downright delusional.
In the end, it will have the longevity of any expansion that get's put out. People just play the game differently now. The old timers know classic like the back of their hand, so it will be even less entertaining than people think it will be.
This is one project that Blizzard is working on that really needs to have the hype meter turned way down or you're going to be in for a rude awakening.
The problem with Classic and the way Blizzard want to implement it ( static 1.xx version with no progression ) is that ultimately it has a use by date.
There is only so much content in that 1.xx version that will be consumed by guilds and players before people will just quit or start asking for more content, when this happens blizzard has 2 choices.
a) Make new content or bring content that is custom for classic creating essentially a different game
b) start progression which would ultimately bring the servers back to the current xpac
Option 'A' seems unlikely unless this is a major success and sees some sort of WoW renaissance to justify the investment, 'B' would be pointless as it would defeat the purpose of Classic and would just become a progression server.
I think Blizzard are just using a "Wait and See" approach which is why there have been no details about this massive elephant in the room.
The problem with Classic and the way Blizzard want to implement it ( static 1.xx version with no progression ) is that ultimately it has a use by date.
There is only so much content in that 1.xx version that will be consumed by guilds and players before people will just quit or start asking for more content, when this happens blizzard has 2 choices.
a) Make new content or bring content that is custom for classic creating essentially a different game
b) start progression which would ultimately bring the servers back to the current xpac
Option 'A' seems unlikely unless this is a major success and sees some sort of WoW renaissance to justify the investment, 'B' would be pointless as it would defeat the purpose of Classic and would just become a progression server.
I think Blizzard are just using a "Wait and See" approach which is why there have been no details about this massive elephant in the room.
I'm curious how they will handle that as well. Vanilla WOW means NO Burning Crusade, NO Wrath of the Lich King etc etc. The moment Blizzard starts adding those expansions or changes the game in anyway it will cease being Vanilla and people will become upset. Then you have the other side who will get bored after level cap and demand more content. Many will want the old game up to BC, or up to WOTLK,etc. etc. I foresee many forum battles over this. Good Luck keeping all those groups of people happy.
1) I don't think Blizzard is looking at classic as a major money maker, but as a GIFT TO FANS THAT WANT IT....I don't think Blizzard will care about population deviations, however they will care about quality upkeep and monitor it for future knowledge.
It will never shut down no matter what. It will be a gift that will always be their and they will always pay for servers accordingly. It will easily pay for it self for a long time, and possibly drop in profit at some point… One thing for sure, it will always be their.
2) As time passes, Blizzard will evaluate and adjust accordingly. This could lead to many different paths that are unknown at this point.
" Launch and see what happens "
3) Were looking deeper into this more so than Blizzard themselves.
Blizzard will never allow people to say " I told you so "... Because it's simply A GIFT !
No, you didn't. Because if you did, you wouldn't said rest of the post. Also there's a reason why Vanilla is so loved and VERY demanded by the wow player base. Do you know why? Because unlike your *evolved* wow crap today, Vanilla actually can offer a real MMORPG.
1) I don't think Blizzard is looking at classic as a major money maker, but as a GIFT TO FANS THAT WANT IT....I don't think Blizzard will care about population deviations, however they will care about quality upkeep and monitor it for future knowledge.
It will never shut down no matter what. It will be a gift that will always be their and they will always pay for servers accordingly. It will easily pay for it self for a long time, and possibly drop in profit at some point… One thing for sure, it will always be their.
2) As time passes, Blizzard will evaluate and adjust accordingly. This could lead to many different paths that are unknown at this point.
" Launch and see what happens "
3) Were looking deeper into this more so than Blizzard themselves.
Blizzard will never allow people to say " I told you so "... Because it's simply A GIFT !
Actually they are doing it so that one lead developer who stated fans don't really want vanilla servers can say to everyone, "I told you so" when they inevitably crash and burn.
Though I believe they'll eventually add change of some sort once enough players clamor for it, after admitting to the error of their ways.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1) I don't think Blizzard is looking at classic as a major money maker, but as a GIFT TO FANS THAT WANT IT....I don't think Blizzard will care about population deviations, however they will care about quality upkeep and monitor it for future knowledge.
It will never shut down no matter what. It will be a gift that will always be their and they will always pay for servers accordingly. It will easily pay for it self for a long time, and possibly drop in profit at some point… One thing for sure, it will always be their.
2) As time passes, Blizzard will evaluate and adjust accordingly. This could lead to many different paths that are unknown at this point.
" Launch and see what happens "
3) Were looking deeper into this more so than Blizzard themselves.
Blizzard will never allow people to say " I told you so "... Because it's simply A GIFT !
I see it as being more of a testing of the water, they might not be expecting it to be all that successful, but wouldn't it be illuminating if it turned out that the classic servers had a higher population count than the current servers, i have no idea whether that will happen, but all i can say at this point is that i have no interest in WoW BfA etc. but classic WoW, yeah, lots of interest there, no idea how long i will play for, but thats the version i would rather play.
I think Classic WoW is just too dated. If they'd done something like Rift Prime it would hold more people for longer; Classic 'content' but modern 'features'.. and a raised difficulty.
I think their biggest mistake with it is not having the wardrobe system or the transmog system. Everyone looked like a homeless person at max level in classic WoW. People are not going to like that these days...
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Comments
But in retrospect I also acknowledge that it was the spare time I had, the people I played with that made it great too, I just don't think I have the willpower to go through the whole 40 man raiding dance all over again, the having to schedule my life around being online day in day out and farm stuff. I mean the same could be said about the next expansion which no doubt I will buy and play for a few months and then it will slowly fade away again.
I think this might be the same experience for a lot of people, but from Blizzard's perspective as long as there is a healthy population and brings a few people back long term it probably is worth it financially.
Wacraft is a great gaming brand and it hasn't reached its full potential, but I don't see Classic servers as the big renaissance of Warcraft.
I think at some point we might see a new Warcraft product that will probably change the paradigm again and revitalize the brand, however I suspect that it won't be an MMO in the same vein that WoW was or is today.
and that's what we got. a developed game over the years.
hell, the lady is what now, 14 years old? how many 14 year old games are still being played by a mass like that? blizz did what they do best.
and those few (max) 100k users surely won't be important for WoW, and neither make it stay alive any longer if you ask me.
actually, i think "vanilla" wow had one instance and no raids. they were patched.
so... those people don't want a classic server (unless they love to be stunlocked) or even a vanilla server, they just don't know what they want.
if they REALLY wanted it, they'd pay, most of them actually expect to get them for free, mb even without sub...
and for the record, neither the mining bug nor connection probs or any other starter bug they had in the game that days was fun
PS: in b4 you guys start crying about the waterlords farm/grind part
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Enjoy your game....don't let people disagreeing with you get you so wound up.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I have zero desire to play a stagnant game with no hope of ever turning into something new, so i won't play vanilla. But Vanilla will do very well and will have multiple servers running for years. It will have an enormous amount of people that get bored and realize that its partially nostalgia clouding judgment, but it will be a long term draw for sure.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Well, no, we really won't. No matter what Blizz does, the whole "they didn't do it the right way" argument is the ultimate get out of jail free card when Vanilla servers inevitably crater.
The curse of the gamer chattering classes is that the game in your head is always better than what actually comes out. Thus any failure -- real or perceived -- is because things weren't done "right" and not that the idea itself was based on false assumptions, was impractical, or just plain flawed to hell and back.
I want to see my name as the server first to kill so and so,i want to be the best pvp,highest rated player and when all comes crashing down and i begin to realize i am just a pawn,i quit and go back to regular servers or quit altogether.
When gamer's come to realize that a MMOrpg is not about ME ME ME,then they will see the genre in a totally different light and likely also quit playing Wow.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
1. Blizzard could redo the expansions with the old ruleset but current quality graphics - @DMKano suggests this could indeed now be the plan.
2. Issues around the launch.
2a. How do you guard against a meltdown of the existing servers? Sure some people may have no interest but if 30% or 50% or 70% of a current server or a guild leaves for a month or three .... and some never return at what point will they have to rejig the server groups? This has happened in the past with other games. DAoC launched classic and there was pain. SoE failed to manage the EQ1 / EQ2 issue. etc.
2b. What do you use to estimate launch day capacity? OK these days you can hire server capacity (cloud) - will they do this? Do they use the current playerbase though? Or base it off the 100M+ subscribers they have lost - maybe weighted to reflect when they last played and how long they played for. OK 100M+ worldwide number but that just highlights that:
2c. They have partners who operate the game in other countries. They need to talk to them as well. Will it be rolled out worldwide? If so - and if they are hiring cloud servers in the short term - are the partners prepared to do this - and pay for the cost?
And so on.
Possible options might include:
- only WoW subscribers get to play classic;
- access to classic could be through current WoW;
- some sort of sign up (enlist to protect the past!) could be put in motion - in advance of launch
- priority could be given to those who sign up.
Which touches on whether it will be one game or two.
Especially as - I assume - a sub will be needed. I would also assume that the one sub will cover both games (CoH + CoV style).
And then forward you have the whole one team vs. two team question. Especially if its only 1 sub which means one revenue source.
Easy to see why some people wanted a quiet life!
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
As far as the server tech goes? I personally have no idea.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Also you can look at how SoE did the EQ2 Time Release Expansion to see the popularity of such things and the risks. EQ2 TLE was widely popular and many old inactive accounts renewed for 3+ months to play it. The problems came down to SoE cash cowing it with for fast leveling and kept many of the changes made in later expacs that made EQ2 classic far to easy and quick to level. Without even trying to grind people would hit cap w/o experiencing some of the biggest classic content things like Heirlooms and when they took a sidetrip for them they would out level them within days because of how ultra quick and easy things where especially considering combined resists that didn't exist for the first couple expacs. In essence it was seen their flaw was NOT offering a real classic experience but just the content with a level cap which made everything including raid progression a joke.
In the end, it will have the longevity of any expansion that get's put out. People just play the game differently now. The old timers know classic like the back of their hand, so it will be even less entertaining than people think it will be.
This is one project that Blizzard is working on that really needs to have the hype meter turned way down or you're going to be in for a rude awakening.
That happens in games in general. Only like 11% of folks owning PoE completed the game. The rest quit right before or at the last Act, likely.
EDIT- Steamspy, for what it's worth, lists average hours played at over 30 hours for PoE. So yea, most play a good while, but never finish.
There is only so much content in that 1.xx version that will be consumed by guilds and players before people will just quit or start asking for more content, when this happens blizzard has 2 choices.
a) Make new content or bring content that is custom for classic creating essentially a different game
b) start progression which would ultimately bring the servers back to the current xpac
Option 'A' seems unlikely unless this is a major success and sees some sort of WoW renaissance to justify the investment, 'B' would be pointless as it would defeat the purpose of Classic and would just become a progression server.
I think Blizzard are just using a "Wait and See" approach which is why there have been no details about this massive elephant in the room.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
1) I don't think Blizzard is looking at classic as a major money maker, but as a GIFT TO FANS THAT WANT IT....I don't think Blizzard will care about population deviations, however they will care about quality upkeep and monitor it for future knowledge.
It will never shut down no matter what. It will be a gift that will always be their and they will always pay for servers accordingly. It will easily pay for it self for a long time, and possibly drop in profit at some point… One thing for sure, it will always be their.
2) As time passes, Blizzard will evaluate and adjust accordingly. This could lead to many different paths that are unknown at this point.
" Launch and see what happens "
3) Were looking deeper into this more so than Blizzard themselves.
Blizzard will never allow people to say " I told you so "... Because it's simply A GIFT !
Though I believe they'll eventually add change of some sort once enough players clamor for it, after admitting to the error of their ways.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I think their biggest mistake with it is not having the wardrobe system or the transmog system. Everyone looked like a homeless person at max level in classic WoW. People are not going to like that these days...