Well said. I have to go out of my way to avoid spoilers and even with tag/keyword muting and avoiding WoW sites/youtube & twitch channels/articles as much as I'm able to, it's not possible to avoid everything. It's kinda exhausting. I just want to enjoy the game I love when it's ready without already being bored of everything that's new. /shrug
You and Bill have the right approach, just avoid reading or watching much about it.
As for "friends" trying to discuss it with you I recommend muting them until they stop.
(Great excuse to give guild on why you refuse to join voice comms.)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I partly disagree and agree at the same time. It is very easy to ignore spoilers if you don't wanna learn anything about the new expansion. Personally, I like the data mining process. Because with this way I can find new things that official sources won't provide me and get more excited about the expansion. And Blizzard knows very well what they should leak to generate hype for the game. They are purposely leaking story pieces to lead us something but don't provide an ending for that story and they let us create theories, argue about them etc till the expansion releases. With a process like this, they continue the hype train till the expansion drops. I LOVE watching youtubers who specifically focuses on the game's lore while waiting for the new expansion. And this process is a goldmine for content creators. They can always find new materials to create videos, guides, theories etc.
And btw you're completely wrong about the last thing you wrote in this column. You wrote; "If other MMOs can keep most details of coming content expansions out of the public eye (i.e. Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online), Blizzard can do it too by bringing back true alpha and beta testing with strictNDAs in place. I wish they would."
I still remember the PoF leaks. They literally leaked the whole expansion months before the announcement. And after that, they stubbornly waited till the specific date to announce it. There was a brief moment that hype was on a max level and after that we waited without any new information till the damn announcement and hype slowly died. There was nothing to talk about the expansion until they made a 2 days testing for the new specs and after that we only had those specs to talk about till the expansion dropped. In my opinion that was a very bad advertisement strategy. They failed to build up a real hype about the release. Even though it was a very solid expansion, it didn't sell enough to justify that. For example, I read something new and think holy sh*t why the f*ck is Sylvanas doing that and get angry about the way the story goes. Then watch something let's say like this,
And I start to think about what could happen when the expansion dropped. I get more and more curious and after that I read a theory about Malfurion and I get more curious but there is nothing more for me to understand what will happen to these characters and how will the lore shape up. Nothing... So it gets me more hyped about the situation but the only thing I can do is wait. And like I said I actually like this process.
But there is one thing I completely agree with you. They shouldn't let people test the raid content before it got released. I don't know how they could test and balance them without letting the real raiders try them and take feedbacks about this content but this is destroying the enjoyment of trial and error process. I don't like this either.
I partly disagree and agree at the same time. It is very easy to ignore spoilers if you don't wanna learn anything about the new expansion. Personally, I like the data mining process. Because with this way I can find new things that official sources won't provide me and get more excited about the expansion. And Blizzard knows very well what they should leak to generate hype for the game. They are purposely leaking story pieces to lead us something but don't provide an ending for that story and they let us create theories, argue about them etc till the expansion releases. With a process like this, they continue the hype train till the expansion drops. I LOVE watching youtubers who specifically focuses on the game's lore while waiting for the new expansion. And this process is a goldmine for content creators. They can always find new materials to create videos, guides, theories etc.
And btw you're completely wrong about the last thing you wrote in this column. You wrote; "If other MMOs can keep most details of coming content expansions out of the public eye (i.e. Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online), Blizzard can do it too by bringing back true alpha and beta testing with strictNDAs in place. I wish they would."
I still remember the PoF leaks. They literally leaked the whole expansion months before the announcement. And after that, they stubbornly waited till the specific date to announce it. There was a brief moment that hype was on a max level and after that we waited without any new information till the damn announcement and hype slowly died. There was nothing to talk about the expansion until they made a 2 days testing for the new specs and after that we only had those specs to talk about till the expansion dropped. In my opinion that was a very bad advertisement strategy. They failed to build up a real hype about the release. Even though it was a very solid expansion, it didn't sell enough to justify that. For example, I read something new and think holy sh*t why the f*ck is Sylvanas doing that and get angry about the way the story goes. Then watch something let's say like this,
And I start to think about what could happen when the expansion dropped. I get more and more curious and after that I read a theory about Malfurion and I get more curious but there is nothing more for me to understand what will happen to these characters and how will the lore shape up. Nothing... So it gets me more hyped about the situation but the only thing I can do is wait. And like I said I actually like this process.
But there is one thing I completely agree with you. They shouldn't let people test the raid content before it got released. I don't know how they could test and balance them without letting the real raiders try them and take feedbacks about this content but this process destroys the enjoyment of trial and error process. I don't like this either.
Personally I'd be a lot more hyped if I didn't even know an expansion was in the works until it was release day.
I know we can ignore spoiler site but my concern is about how these things affect design and development.
I agree 100%,it ruins every game and happens too much. The first time i ever felt the massive impact of data mining was many years ago in FFXI.
I noticed the auction house had a huge influx of Ores,well sure enough upon go time of the new content,ores were used to upgrade artifact gear,so data miners had a huge unfair head start on legit players. IMO it is full on cheating,i just wish there was some way a developer could take care of those cheats.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I agree 100%,it ruins every game and happens too much. The first time i ever felt the massive impact of data mining was many years ago in FFXI.
I noticed the auction house had a huge influx of Ores,well sure enough upon go time of the new content,ores were used to upgrade artifact gear,so data miners had a huge unfair head start on legit players. IMO it is full on cheating,i just wish there was some way a developer could take care of those cheats.
Woahhh................. I agree with Wizardry.................. I need a bath now
This is one of those main reasons I've been avoiding all big news outside of feature previews for BfA.
@BillMurphy I totally agree. Been using the same tactic since infinity war released. I want to go into that movie next Monday afternoon (should be pretty empty I hope) without any knowledge of it other than what I remember from the actual comic.
No! Why should datamining kill my desire for BfA? 95% of the time, I ignore every News about BfA datamining. I mean really .. beside the author ( ) , whoever wants to keep things "fresh" when BfA launches, they should ignore any datamining.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
It definitely takes away from the fun. I'd prefer a fresh experience. But I guess if you're big enough into it, then your fresh experience is the beta itself.
While I theoretically agree with you, I propose that the devs don't listen to the MOUNTAINS of feedback they're provided from passionate players across every spec and class. Pages and pages and pages of constructive criticism is always given without any feedback from devs or rationale for the changes they're making.
And balance....LOL...please. WoW has never been balanced.
cant agree more , the alpha forum was full of good ideas , and devs ignored 90% of that.
but thats blizz for u , they will hotfix class in the first patch like always , adding what the 90% said.
i still dont know why the do that ....they basically kill some specs on release and it takes time until ppl let u join M+ or Raids
Twitch streamers playing ALPHA & BETA before every launch has become a bigger marketing tool then any commercial on TV or gaming website ad. I do agree with you it takes alot of magic out of the experience knowing everything the xpac has to offer before even playing
Remember the old days when you went to buy a nintendo game or pc game and all you had to judge the game was the back of the box ? I remember as a kid me and my brother use to judge & joke whether a Amiga game was going to be good or not by the weight of the box lol . If the box was HEAVY it meant there was a huge booklet/instruction manual which in our opinion made the game more deep/complex.
It was nice back when games had to work out of the box. Nintendo Power had a way of making every side-scrolling adventure game look amazing with their fold out maps.
Datamining is an issue in practically every popular mmorpg out there.
There are always two groups:
1) The enthusiasts who want to know about every single piece of raid gear coming out in order to plan their builds out and see if anything is worth getting.
2) The players who want to see what kind of content might be predicted through the existence of different class of items (I am good at doing this) and determining if its worth paying for another expansion on top of renewing subscriptions to speedrun through it all.
Sorry, but that is how MMOs play out.
I play a lot of FF XIV and we get a lot of WoW players who go back and forth between their marathon of MMOs trying to get everything for their characters like some race.
People can talk about the lore, but the average player does not know how to datamine or how to get started in it. So it means that the ones who datamine are people within hardcore groups who want to get a head start at planning ahead.
Welcome to the Culture of
Dataming
Waiting for a new patch
Going through everything in a week or two
Leaving until the next patch comes out..
Notice I didn't say "Resub" as this happens in F2Ps and B2Ps as well.
Want to solve the issue?
Simply don't patch the game to include any of the content hidden in the files..
IMHO datamining and sites like WoW Head are totally destructive towards MMORPG's
They take away any sense of mystery and discovery, they destroy the journey.
On one hand, I agree: One of my biggest issues with WoW, and MMOs in the past... 10 years. Your expected to know everything before you've done it. Join a PUG for a dungeon? "Do you know the encounters?" "Have you watched the video?". Sure, solo content you can chose to go in blind or read up beforehand, but once you get to the group/raid content - all notion of discovery goes out the window and everyone just wants the cookie cutter to make it go faster.
Sure, a lot of folks will say "Then join a guild of people who feel the same way, and take your time doing whatever" and "It's not fair to have to run a dungeon for your 10th time, having new people slow you down every time". And I agree with that, a guild of like minded individuals is a great thing, and I wish I could get into a game long enough to get into that guild - not everyone is so lucky though, and that's why the LFD/LFG/LFR tool was invented. The LFD tool should absolutely let you check a box saying "Allow newbs to join" or "Speedrun" or whatever. But it doesn't, it throws 5 random people together and good luck.
And then on the other hand: If I'm stuck on a quest, or just don't want to take the time to look up where that 5th acorn is on a fetch quest. These sites are godsends for things like that.
And I think datamining is just one more specific symptom of that problem: people want to get to the end. That's human nature. We want an obstacle, and we want enough challenge so it's satisfying to conquer it, but we don't want it to be tedious or insurmountable. For everyone that's a different point.
I have no issue with the data being out there, and for it being available. My biggest issue is when it's seemingly forced upon you to take advantage of it by the playerbase.
IMHO It's the main reason that that people can level a toon in two weeks instead of two months and then complain that there isn't enough content.
It makes it impossible for developers to keep up and it makes certain kinds of progression meaningless and/or a waste of development time.
IMHO These things restrict design options. They make these games less fun for the ones who use these sights as well as the ones who don't.
IMHO there is more meaningless grinds because of data mining/ spoiler sites
Pretty much, people know all the best leveling routes, people know the best ways to speed through dungeons, people know the lore, people know everything about the game before they've even played it.
I saw a video by Preach which made me sad, he said "it's so cool running a dungeon without knowing the mechanics or whats going to happen next", I was thinking, that's great and all for you, but this is something we should be saying when playing the live game, not the alpha/beta and should be an experience for everyone, not just those who got Alpha/Beta access.
People could say avoid it, but this is a multiplayer game, you're going to be affected by those who already know this information in some way.
I don't think data-mining is WOW main problem or even something new.
Like for movies, there are people who like watching spoilers and people that don't.
It's subjective and a personal choice, I don't see it as a problem.
Personally I avoid spoilers for movies, and though I get Beta invites quite often, I rarely participate.
Self-control helps. I avoid most of Wowhead's beta content, except class changes/mechanics. I have beta-access but I avoid questing/dungeoneering. So you can keep yourself quite spoiler free.
I do think it is a rather weak expansion offering little in overall experience, just more of the same and that has more effect on my motivation than all the data mining going on.
Comments
As for "friends" trying to discuss it with you I recommend muting them until they stop.
(Great excuse to give guild on why you refuse to join voice comms.)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And btw you're completely wrong about the last thing you wrote in this column. You wrote;
"If other MMOs can keep most details of coming content expansions out of the public eye (i.e. Guild Wars 2 and Elder Scrolls Online), Blizzard can do it too by bringing back true alpha and beta testing with strictNDAs in place. I wish they would."
I still remember the PoF leaks. They literally leaked the whole expansion months before the announcement. And after that, they stubbornly waited till the specific date to announce it. There was a brief moment that hype was on a max level and after that we waited without any new information till the damn announcement and hype slowly died. There was nothing to talk about the expansion until they made a 2 days testing for the new specs and after that we only had those specs to talk about till the expansion dropped. In my opinion that was a very bad advertisement strategy. They failed to build up a real hype about the release. Even though it was a very solid expansion, it didn't sell enough to justify that.
For example, I read something new and think holy sh*t why the f*ck is Sylvanas doing that and get angry about the way the story goes. Then watch something let's say like this,
And I start to think about what could happen when the expansion dropped. I get more and more curious and after that I read a theory about Malfurion and I get more curious but there is nothing more for me to understand what will happen to these characters and how will the lore shape up. Nothing... So it gets me more hyped about the situation but the only thing I can do is wait. And like I said I actually like this process.
But there is one thing I completely agree with you. They shouldn't let people test the raid content before it got released. I don't know how they could test and balance them without letting the real raiders try them and take feedbacks about this content but this is destroying the enjoyment of trial and error process. I don't like this either.
I know we can ignore spoiler site but my concern is about how these things affect design and development.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
The first time i ever felt the massive impact of data mining was many years ago in FFXI.
I noticed the auction house had a huge influx of Ores,well sure enough upon go time of the new content,ores were used to upgrade artifact gear,so data miners had a huge unfair head start on legit players.
IMO it is full on cheating,i just wish there was some way a developer could take care of those cheats.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
@BillMurphy I totally agree. Been using the same tactic since infinity war released. I want to go into that movie next Monday afternoon (should be pretty empty I hope) without any knowledge of it other than what I remember from the actual comic.
Just leveling for heritage armor.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Each to their own I guess
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
YES.
cant agree more , the alpha forum was full of good ideas , and devs ignored 90% of that.
but thats blizz for u , they will hotfix class in the first patch like always , adding what the 90% said.
i still dont know why the do that ....they basically kill some specs on release and it takes time until ppl let u join M+ or Raids
It was nice back when games had to work out of the box. Nintendo Power had a way of making every side-scrolling adventure game look amazing with their fold out maps.
There are always two groups:
1) The enthusiasts who want to know about every single piece of raid gear coming out in order to plan their builds out and see if anything is worth getting.
2) The players who want to see what kind of content might be predicted through the existence of different class of items (I am good at doing this) and determining if its worth paying for another expansion on top of renewing subscriptions to speedrun through it all.
Sorry, but that is how MMOs play out.
I play a lot of FF XIV and we get a lot of WoW players who go back and forth between their marathon of MMOs trying to get everything for their characters like some race.
People can talk about the lore, but the average player does not know how to datamine or how to get started in it. So it means that the ones who datamine are people within hardcore groups who want to get a head start at planning ahead.
Welcome to the Culture of
Dataming
Waiting for a new patch
Going through everything in a week or two
Leaving until the next patch comes out..
Notice I didn't say "Resub" as this happens in F2Ps and B2Ps as well.
Want to solve the issue?
Simply don't patch the game to include any of the content hidden in the files..
One of my biggest issues with WoW, and MMOs in the past... 10 years. Your expected to know everything before you've done it. Join a PUG for a dungeon? "Do you know the encounters?" "Have you watched the video?". Sure, solo content you can chose to go in blind or read up beforehand, but once you get to the group/raid content - all notion of discovery goes out the window and everyone just wants the cookie cutter to make it go faster.
Sure, a lot of folks will say "Then join a guild of people who feel the same way, and take your time doing whatever" and "It's not fair to have to run a dungeon for your 10th time, having new people slow you down every time". And I agree with that, a guild of like minded individuals is a great thing, and I wish I could get into a game long enough to get into that guild - not everyone is so lucky though, and that's why the LFD/LFG/LFR tool was invented. The LFD tool should absolutely let you check a box saying "Allow newbs to join" or "Speedrun" or whatever. But it doesn't, it throws 5 random people together and good luck.
And then on the other hand:
If I'm stuck on a quest, or just don't want to take the time to look up where that 5th acorn is on a fetch quest. These sites are godsends for things like that.
And I think datamining is just one more specific symptom of that problem: people want to get to the end. That's human nature. We want an obstacle, and we want enough challenge so it's satisfying to conquer it, but we don't want it to be tedious or insurmountable. For everyone that's a different point.
I have no issue with the data being out there, and for it being available. My biggest issue is when it's seemingly forced upon you to take advantage of it by the playerbase.
I saw a video by Preach which made me sad, he said "it's so cool running a dungeon without knowing the mechanics or whats going to happen next", I was thinking, that's great and all for you, but this is something we should be saying when playing the live game, not the alpha/beta and should be an experience for everyone, not just those who got Alpha/Beta access.
People could say avoid it, but this is a multiplayer game, you're going to be affected by those who already know this information in some way.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Like for movies, there are people who like watching spoilers and people that don't.
It's subjective and a personal choice, I don't see it as a problem.
Personally I avoid spoilers for movies, and though I get Beta invites quite often, I rarely participate.
I do think it is a rather weak expansion offering little in overall experience, just more of the same and that has more effect on my motivation than all the data mining going on.