The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened.
EvE wants a word with you about that
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
In EVE your ship is your avatar pretty much. I would agree that doesn't offer the same experience as directly controlling a character given most people in EVE fight zoomed out so far from their ship that it's just a symbol on the screen. But it is an MMO experience because how your character is represented doesn't change the fact that it's massively multiplayer.
I would actually label EVE as one of the truest MMOs as it's one of the only ones that really embraces it's MMO features. For WoW most content is designed to be done be done by 5-40 people. That's no more massive than PUBG. It is an MMO as it has the potential for large numbers of players to be in the same area, and a massive number of players share the non-instanced world, but it really does nothing to take advantage of that. To a large degree it uses it's world as a glorified matchmaking lobby.
The problem with "old school" and "nostalgia" isn't about older games being bad, its about failing to exclude archaic game design while making a game that has genuinely interesting game mechanics.
Every Ahn'Qiraj raid we had 40 people spending 10-15 minutes afk while their characters travelled to silithus. Those kinds of mechanics I could really live without.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
The problem with "old school" and "nostalgia" isn't about older games being bad, its about failing to exclude archaic game design while making a game that has genuinely interesting game mechanics.
Every Ahn'Qiraj raid we had 40 people spending 10-15 minutes afk while their characters travelled to silithus. Those kinds of mechanics I could really live without.
I would say, what "should" be happening, is that you have to make that trip but that things happen to you on the way.
But it seems to me that this is a fast travel issue.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened.
EvE wants a word with you about that
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
In EVE your ship is your avatar pretty much. I would agree that doesn't offer the same experience as directly controlling a character given most people in EVE fight zoomed out so far from their ship that it's just a symbol on the screen. But it is an MMO experience because how your character is represented doesn't change the fact that it's massively multiplayer.
I would actually label EVE as one of the truest MMOs as it's one of the only ones that really embraces it's MMO features. For WoW most content is designed to be done be done by 5-40 people. That's no more massive than PUBG. It is an MMO as it has the potential for large numbers of players to be in the same area, and a massive number of players share the non-instanced world, but it really does nothing to take advantage of that. To a large degree it uses it's world as a glorified matchmaking lobby.
I certainly agree that EVE gameplay shows us that MMOs can be more than the themepark solo MMO fair we now get. My ideal would be that sort of space setting with avatars on planets, but was there not a tie in squad warfare on planets game? Not sure that did so well but that cuts it when it comes to seeing your avatar running around.
I believe nostalgia is just remembering various strong chemical reactions your body experienced when younger. Those early MMOs provided a lot of those due to the lack of restrictions and unforeseen exploits. It was also a new experience for everyone in general.
One could argue if nostalgia provides you a positive feeling then it's good. It is helping you to feel better. I often listen to music that is older. Even music way before my time. I heard all this music growing up. On the flip side I'm not into most modern music. I feel it is to monotone and soft. I much prefer energetic music. I especially like the sound of a fast paced guitar.
For me I enjoyed UO, EQ, and WoW in their original states the most. I somewhat enjoyed EQs and WoWs first few expansions, but for me the original games with their bugs, freedom, slow travel, and no or limited maps made the experience much more fun.
With that said it was a draining experience. I would like to go back and try again, but I feel it is too much of a waste of time at this point and as silly as it may sound it is a very draining experience to sink many hours staring at the screen into these games. I wouldn't want to put my body through that again considering I was in my teens and early 20s at the time I played those games. I am actually healthier now than I was then, but I still wouldn't want to go through it. I feel all of this is why most of the classic games fail. There isn't enough incentive in the modern age to sink hours into a MMORPG.
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened.
EvE wants a word with you about that
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
In EVE your ship is your avatar pretty much. I would agree that doesn't offer the same experience as directly controlling a character given most people in EVE fight zoomed out so far from their ship that it's just a symbol on the screen. But it is an MMO experience because how your character is represented doesn't change the fact that it's massively multiplayer.
I would actually label EVE as one of the truest MMOs as it's one of the only ones that really embraces it's MMO features. For WoW most content is designed to be done be done by 5-40 people. That's no more massive than PUBG. It is an MMO as it has the potential for large numbers of players to be in the same area, and a massive number of players share the non-instanced world, but it really does nothing to take advantage of that. To a large degree it uses it's world as a glorified matchmaking lobby.
I certainly agree that EVE gameplay shows us that MMOs can be more than the themepark solo MMO fair we now get. My ideal would be that sort of space setting with avatars on planets, but was there not a tie in squad warfare on planets game? Not sure that did so well but that cuts it when it comes to seeing your avatar running around.
What you are talking about was called Dust 514 standing on it's own merits as an FPS, it's the best FPS I ever played because it brought deep character customization into an FPS format and had really fun pacing of combat / well balanced vehicle vs. infantry dynamics.
Unfortunately the tie in was barely existent. EVE players could provide orbital strikes if you called them in but Dust didn't really effect the EVE universe and Dust 514 ISK and EVE ISK were two non-transferable currencies that didn't cross over at any point of either game's economy.
That, and the PS3 exclusive aspect the remained even after the release of the PS4 title killed it. If they would have released it on PC and let tie in come as a welcome surprise instead of a selling point that would anger people when it isn't there, the game would likely still be going strong.
There is a plan to revive it though. Unfortunately if people think Star Citizen isn't producing or showing enough fast enough, Project Nova (The Dust 514 reboot) seems to be moving at an absolutely glacial pace and showing us very, very, little. So it remains to be seen, when it's coming out, if it's coming out, and if the features and elements that made Dust 514 great will even still be present when it comes out.
i just replayed kotor 1 and 2 because of nostalgia. what an amazing choice i made. amazing stories and plot twists. and the lightsaber animations and robes in kotor 2 look even better than swtor... and its fucking 14 years old
We could have had KOTOR 3 instead we got SWTOR....
I'm kind of glad there are no new KOTOR games. I doubt I would like a Star Wars game based on the prequels or even the latest installments by Disney. I really liked the original trilogy. KOTOR1/2 captured the concept of those movies quite well. Of course I'm sure there are many who like the prequels and new movies who would have enjoyed it.
My theory is that nostalgia simply comes from first time and early experiences of enjoyment. There is then an illusion that those types of games were superior to what we have now. But I could very well see people younger than us having nostalgia for the games that we currently hate since it's their first experience. Thus the cycle continues.
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened.
EvE wants a word with you about that
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
In EVE your ship is your avatar pretty much. I would agree that doesn't offer the same experience as directly controlling a character given most people in EVE fight zoomed out so far from their ship that it's just a symbol on the screen. But it is an MMO experience because how your character is represented doesn't change the fact that it's massively multiplayer.
I would actually label EVE as one of the truest MMOs as it's one of the only ones that really embraces it's MMO features. For WoW most content is designed to be done be done by 5-40 people. That's no more massive than PUBG. It is an MMO as it has the potential for large numbers of players to be in the same area, and a massive number of players share the non-instanced world, but it really does nothing to take advantage of that. To a large degree it uses it's world as a glorified matchmaking lobby.
I certainly agree that EVE gameplay shows us that MMOs can be more than the themepark solo MMO fair we now get. My ideal would be that sort of space setting with avatars on planets, but was there not a tie in squad warfare on planets game? Not sure that did so well but that cuts it when it comes to seeing your avatar running around.
What you are talking about was called Dust 514 standing on it's own merits as an FPS, it's the best FPS I ever played because it brought deep character customization into an FPS format and had really fun pacing of combat / well balanced vehicle vs. infantry dynamics.
Unfortunately the tie in was barely existent. EVE players could provide orbital strikes if you called them in but Dust didn't really effect the EVE universe and Dust 514 ISK and EVE ISK were two non-transferable currencies that didn't cross over at any point of either game's economy.
That, and the PS3 exclusive aspect the remained even after the release of the PS4 title killed it. If they would have released it on PC and let tie in come as a welcome surprise instead of a selling point that would anger people when it isn't there, the game would likely still be going strong.
There is a plan to revive it though. Unfortunately if people think Star Citizen isn't producing or showing enough fast enough, Project Nova (The Dust 514 reboot) seems to be moving at an absolutely glacial pace and showing us very, very, little. So it remains to be seen, when it's coming out, if it's coming out, and if the features and elements that made Dust 514 great will even still be present when it comes out.
What a missed opportunity, if that ever gets of the ground I may well go with it. The idea of the EVE space action with planetside troop action ticks all the boxes for me.
My theory is that nostalgia simply comes from first time and early experiences of enjoyment. There is then an illusion that those types of games were superior to what we have now. But I could very well see people younger than us having nostalgia for the games that we currently hate since it's their first experience. Thus the cycle continues.
I agree, Nostalgia comes from a memory of a good time.
Well, my point is how about more of that good time....... After all that good time was a Good Time, right ?
Good point, About having nostalgia for the games we hate....... They don't even have to be younger people, just different people. I believe that, I'm all for that
But many twist nostalgia around as, "you really don't like that, your just going off a good memory" "you really don't like that"
IMO the mmorpgs from the late 90s early 2000s were just as much virtual chat rooms as they were games. These days not as many people need mmos for the virtual chat room experience, social media has replaced that space that those mmorpgs occupied. TBH the root at which made most of those games rather special was the fact that they were founded on a different set of principles in comparison to todays mmorpgs. The oldest--late 90s early 2000s mmos were attempting to create virtual wolrds and a chatroom- esque experience. Todays mmorpgs are designed more toward the fast paced, rng, slot machine, dopamine hit indulging experience. They are psychologically different at their cores.
With that said, I still believe their are decent mmorpgs that exist today but are so far removed from what the foundation this genre was built upon there are mere 2nd cousins twice removed rather than being the next branch on the family tree.
I dont believe people are mostly nostalgic for those games of old, I think that they just cant be bothered into todays virtual slot machine types of mmorpgs. I can though
I know this may sound crazy but if people enjoyed playing a game years ago and still enjoy playing it today, they might just enjoy playing the game. No nostalgia needed.
But many just don't. The game is still there, but they don't play it. Go figure.
C'mon Jean, you know better. Saying DAoC is still there today and fans of vanilla should just go play is being disingenuous. Those games are far different today than they were then.
Look at how much ESO had changed in just the small time it's been released. Now add a decade plus of that.
Then tell me how all attempts to restore the "good old past", when we were "climbing up the hill in the Blizzard", have only ghost populations?
Fact is, those people don't know what they really want. They look at past games through some nostalgia glasses indeed (the OP's nostalgia stops at WoW though), but when presented a restoration of those games, they still don't play it.
They think they want a clone of those old games with new graphics and animations, but in reality that new instance of the same old crap would be just as bad as it was back then...
Some games just have run their course. I would love to play UO but the game is dated and been there done that. I played for years starting when I was 16 I think and I am 39 now.
My theory is that nostalgia simply comes from first time and early experiences of enjoyment. There is then an illusion that those types of games were superior to what we have now. But I could very well see people younger than us having nostalgia for the games that we currently hate since it's their first experience. Thus the cycle continues.
I agree, Nostalgia comes from a memory of a good time.
Well, my point is how about more of that good time....... After all that good time was a Good Time, right ?
Good point, About having nostalgia for the games we hate....... They don't even have to be younger people, just different people. I believe that, I'm all for that
But many twist nostalgia around as, "you really don't like that, your just going off a good memory" "you really don't like that"
'You can't step into the same river twice.'
Both have changed.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
The tech hasnt kept up with our dreams. When I first played Asherons Call, I thought, in a few years, 10,000+ people will all be on the same server, and can all be in the same area at one time.
Obviously that hasnt happened.
EvE wants a word with you about that
Yeah but that's star ships, not a real avatar running round, is EVE a proper MMO? I know this is tantamount to heresy but it is something that has always been a quandary for me, I know you can say well what's the difference really? I have a hard time equating MMORPG's without seeing avatars running round. But when it comes to gameplay you can't argue EVE's MMORPG position. Same reason I have issues about Star Citizen, good to see they can leave their ships and run around.
In EVE your ship is your avatar pretty much. I would agree that doesn't offer the same experience as directly controlling a character given most people in EVE fight zoomed out so far from their ship that it's just a symbol on the screen. But it is an MMO experience because how your character is represented doesn't change the fact that it's massively multiplayer.
I would actually label EVE as one of the truest MMOs as it's one of the only ones that really embraces it's MMO features. For WoW most content is designed to be done be done by 5-40 people. That's no more massive than PUBG. It is an MMO as it has the potential for large numbers of players to be in the same area, and a massive number of players share the non-instanced world, but it really does nothing to take advantage of that. To a large degree it uses it's world as a glorified matchmaking lobby.
I certainly agree that EVE gameplay shows us that MMOs can be more than the themepark solo MMO fair we now get. My ideal would be that sort of space setting with avatars on planets, but was there not a tie in squad warfare on planets game? Not sure that did so well but that cuts it when it comes to seeing your avatar running around.
What you are talking about was called Dust 514 standing on it's own merits as an FPS, it's the best FPS I ever played because it brought deep character customization into an FPS format and had really fun pacing of combat / well balanced vehicle vs. infantry dynamics.
Unfortunately the tie in was barely existent. EVE players could provide orbital strikes if you called them in but Dust didn't really effect the EVE universe and Dust 514 ISK and EVE ISK were two non-transferable currencies that didn't cross over at any point of either game's economy.
That, and the PS3 exclusive aspect the remained even after the release of the PS4 title killed it. If they would have released it on PC and let tie in come as a welcome surprise instead of a selling point that would anger people when it isn't there, the game would likely still be going strong.
There is a plan to revive it though. Unfortunately if people think Star Citizen isn't producing or showing enough fast enough, Project Nova (The Dust 514 reboot) seems to be moving at an absolutely glacial pace and showing us very, very, little. So it remains to be seen, when it's coming out, if it's coming out, and if the features and elements that made Dust 514 great will even still be present when it comes out.
What a missed opportunity, if that ever gets of the ground I may well go with it. The idea of the EVE space action with planetside troop action ticks all the boxes for me.
Have you tried Elite Dangerous ?
There's no squad action in that though? I already have it, but I have about four or five other games that I need to get through first.
Ahhhh Nostalgia- My fav mmo's were The Matrix, Vanguard, City of heroes and Shadowbane-notice that three out of four had serious lag and rubberbanding problems-maybe that is why I liked them, I had to work for my enjoyment so I got more satisfaction from it, or maybe in my nostaligc mind I look past the problems to to the core which was a Gem
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I would actually label EVE as one of the truest MMOs as it's one of the only ones that really embraces it's MMO features. For WoW most content is designed to be done be done by 5-40 people. That's no more massive than PUBG. It is an MMO as it has the potential for large numbers of players to be in the same area, and a massive number of players share the non-instanced world, but it really does nothing to take advantage of that. To a large degree it uses it's world as a glorified matchmaking lobby.
Every Ahn'Qiraj raid we had 40 people spending 10-15 minutes afk while their characters travelled to silithus. Those kinds of mechanics I could really live without.
But it seems to me that this is a fast travel issue.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I certainly agree that EVE gameplay shows us that MMOs can be more than the themepark solo MMO fair we now get. My ideal would be that sort of space setting with avatars on planets, but was there not a tie in squad warfare on planets game? Not sure that did so well but that cuts it when it comes to seeing your avatar running around.
One could argue if nostalgia provides you a positive feeling then it's good. It is helping you to feel better. I often listen to music that is older. Even music way before my time. I heard all this music growing up. On the flip side I'm not into most modern music. I feel it is to monotone and soft. I much prefer energetic music. I especially like the sound of a fast paced guitar.
For me I enjoyed UO, EQ, and WoW in their original states the most. I somewhat enjoyed EQs and WoWs first few expansions, but for me the original games with their bugs, freedom, slow travel, and no or limited maps made the experience much more fun.
With that said it was a draining experience. I would like to go back and try again, but I feel it is too much of a waste of time at this point and as silly as it may sound it is a very draining experience to sink many hours staring at the screen into these games. I wouldn't want to put my body through that again considering I was in my teens and early 20s at the time I played those games. I am actually healthier now than I was then, but I still wouldn't want to go through it. I feel all of this is why most of the classic games fail. There isn't enough incentive in the modern age to sink hours into a MMORPG.
Unfortunately the tie in was barely existent. EVE players could provide orbital strikes if you called them in but Dust didn't really effect the EVE universe and Dust 514 ISK and EVE ISK were two non-transferable currencies that didn't cross over at any point of either game's economy.
That, and the PS3 exclusive aspect the remained even after the release of the PS4 title killed it. If they would have released it on PC and let tie in come as a welcome surprise instead of a selling point that would anger people when it isn't there, the game would likely still be going strong.
There is a plan to revive it though. Unfortunately if people think Star Citizen isn't producing or showing enough fast enough, Project Nova (The Dust 514 reboot) seems to be moving at an absolutely glacial pace and showing us very, very, little. So it remains to be seen, when it's coming out, if it's coming out, and if the features and elements that made Dust 514 great will even still be present when it comes out.
Mend and Defend
I agree,
Nostalgia comes from a memory of a good time.
Well, my point is how about more of that good time....... After all that good time was a Good Time, right ?
Good point,
About having nostalgia for the games we hate....... They don't even have to be younger people, just different people. I believe that, I'm all for that
But many twist nostalgia around as,
"you really don't like that, your just going off a good memory"
"you really don't like that"
Nothing wrong with Nostalgia it happens to all humans not just gamers.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
With that said, I still believe their are decent mmorpgs that exist today but are so far removed from what the foundation this genre was built upon there are mere 2nd cousins twice removed rather than being the next branch on the family tree.
I dont believe people are mostly nostalgic for those games of old, I think that they just cant be bothered into todays virtual slot machine types of mmorpgs. I can though
Some games just have run their course. I would love to play UO but the game is dated and been there done that. I played for years starting when I was 16 I think and I am 39 now.
Both have changed.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.