It already looks better in pre alpha than VG did at launch.
Keep it up and you will have a hit.
Do it for us old schools, Brad!!
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
The decision not to have bards ended my interest in this game.
actually in a recent interview, they pretty much confirmed bards will be in by launch, unless something goes terribly wrong with the game development they'll be a playable class when the game launches.
I don't remember what they said exactly but I don't think they confirmed that. Iirc it was more like "bards are in a good place now for testing and that makes a launch release a good bet"
"I feel confident that from my perspective we'll be able to have bard in by launch"
The decision not to have bards ended my interest in this game.
actually in a recent interview, they pretty much confirmed bards will be in by launch, unless something goes terribly wrong with the game development they'll be a playable class when the game launches.
I don't remember what they said exactly but I don't think they confirmed that. Iirc it was more like "bards are in a good place now for testing and that makes a launch release a good bet"
"I feel confident that from my perspective we'll be able to have bard in by launch"
oh ok. Not trying to be a dick but tbh thats still not really confirming it
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
I remember a Monk being a dick in EQ he was pretty famous or infamous I should say. I thought he was a 13 years old from the way he talked and behaved. I can even remember his name "Navino" (can't say I can remember characters from other games). All I can say he grew up pretty fast, because time 6 months he became well spoken and behaved as the whole server picked on him mercilessly.
Sure today there are many more dicks around, but this type of game which require the help of other people to achieve anything, you cannot afford to be a dick for too long. You also can't just make an Alt and start afresh as leveling take ages, so you either suck it up and make an effort or quit.
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
You'll find yourself minding corpse runs real quick.
Remember other people being complete pricks will be a much bigger thing than the original EQ - the toxicity is real.
Exactly!
I remember many, many train-deaths. Some by guys doing it just to be dinks, some by guys that were trying to run to safety. I've even been guilty of accidentally training others when I thought no one else was in the area. It happened so often, my friends and I didn't use HoTs or run AoE just so that we wouldn't snag mobs from trains as they ran by.
And that was in the days of better communities.
People in general seem to care less about their reputations nowadays, they're less willing to invest time into others, they have lesser understanding of things like good sportsmanship. Trolling is mainstream now.
Just wait until you're on your third corpse run of the hour, all because of the same guy repeatedly training you while making his Youtube video.
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
You'll find yourself minding corpse runs real quick.
Remember other people being complete pricks will be a much bigger thing than the original EQ - the toxicity is real.
Really easy to record these toxic players nowadays too, I say repeat offenders who are caught training mobs onto a group over and over again gets their account banned. Problem solved, No need to mess with what worked in EQ. The xp loss and de-leveling worked just fine.
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
I remember a Monk being a dick in EQ he was pretty famous or infamous I should say. I thought he was a 13 years old from the way he talked and behaved. I can even remember his name "Navino" (can't say I can remember characters from other games). All I can say he grew up pretty fast, because time 6 months he became well spoken and behaved as the whole server picked on him mercilessly.
Sure today there are many more dicks around, but this type of game which require the help of other people to achieve anything, you cannot afford to be a dick for too long. You also can't just make an Alt and start afresh as leveling take ages, so you either suck it up and make an effort or quit.
Holy crap I think I remember Navino. I don't remember if it was my server (Tribunal), but he was certainly infamous.
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
You'll find yourself minding corpse runs real quick.
Remember other people being complete pricks will be a much bigger thing than the original EQ - the toxicity is real.
This is why a real mmo needs pvp. But not pvp without consequences for abusers.
If everquest was your first MMORPG then this game is a dream come true. For everyone else, it probably doesn't really catch your eye . There just isn't any way to explain why everquest is a superior game lol. I think you just have to have lived it to understand.
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
I remember a Monk being a dick in EQ he was pretty famous or infamous I should say. I thought he was a 13 years old from the way he talked and behaved. I can even remember his name "Navino" (can't say I can remember characters from other games). All I can say he grew up pretty fast, because time 6 months he became well spoken and behaved as the whole server picked on him mercilessly.
Sure today there are many more dicks around, but this type of game which require the help of other people to achieve anything, you cannot afford to be a dick for too long. You also can't just make an Alt and start afresh as leveling take ages, so you either suck it up and make an effort or quit.
Innoruuk server ftw! Still remember our resident trainer. Iksar monk named Chubbies! Awesome guy, good monk, great puller, even better trainer! Haha don't know what made him turn into the massive trainer he became but it happened.
I remember getting trained and having a great enchanter with us, so many mezes and felt like non stop fighting. Some of the most intense group/dungeon fights were because of being trained haha. But with a good group trains = free pulls. In a bad group trains = lose of exp + corpse run.
Don't mind corpse runs... makes dying a pain, so it weeds out the people playing like a dikwad. Anyway, in EQ many years ago, a monk gave my necro five plat to summon his corpse, an unimaginable amount of money for me as a relative noob. I was jumping around the room in celebration. Happy days.
Oh you never ran across that monk that would train mobs and then FD right on top of your group over and over and over again?
You'll find yourself minding corpse runs real quick.
Remember other people being complete pricks will be a much bigger thing than the original EQ - the toxicity is real.
Really easy to record these toxic players nowadays too, I say repeat offenders who are caught training mobs onto a group over and over again gets their account banned. Problem solved, No need to mess with what worked in EQ. The xp loss and de-leveling worked just fine.
You are grossly underestimating the length trolls will go to ruin your fun.
By the time they get banned - your group will probably be already disbanded, the XP loss on your side will be real and the fun ruined.
The only saving grace Pantheon might have is that it has a really tiny population of nice players and the trolls just stay playing other more popular games.
I completely agree, a troll wakes up every morning just to troll it's their life blood but the slow xp gain of classic EQ is a huge grind to get into higher levels. I think if they were to troll and if the ban-able offense was a reality I don't think they'd want to keep putting the blood sweat and tears into multiple lost accounts to keep trolling higher levels. Maybe the wealthier trolls that could keep buying accounts would keep trolling lower levels more often... I guess we'll see what happens, what the consequences are, and how creative they get.
You are grossly underestimating the length trolls will go to ruin your fun.
By the time they get banned - your group will probably be already disbanded, the XP loss on your side will be real and the fun ruined.
That would work in WOW. You forgot how long it takes to level a character in EQ, not sure people would throw months of hard work out of the window just for a couple of hours of lolz.
I thought the video was slightly prophetic about one point -- they didn't bother to do corpse runs because they had GM tools. So, the lengthy, old-school aspect of corpse runs and that massive downtime wasn't entertaining enough for developers to show to the world on a video. Why aren't there people clamoring about leaving this very atmospheric 'feature' out of the game? Brad and his coneys appear to be willing to let the customers test this feature for them.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I thought the video was slightly prophetic about one point -- they didn't bother to do corpse runs because they had GM tools. So, the lengthy, old-school aspect of corpse runs and that massive downtime wasn't entertaining enough for developers to show to the world on a video. Why aren't there people clamoring about leaving this very atmospheric 'feature' out of the game? Brad and his coneys appear to be willing to let the customers test this feature for them.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
It's called having a death penalty. Do you not know what a corpse run looks like?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I thought the video was slightly prophetic about one point -- they didn't bother to do corpse runs because they had GM tools. So, the lengthy, old-school aspect of corpse runs and that massive downtime wasn't entertaining enough for developers to show to the world on a video. Why aren't there people clamoring about leaving this very atmospheric 'feature' out of the game? Brad and his coneys appear to be willing to let the customers test this feature for them.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
This comes across as being very ignorant and a backhanded stab, especially for someone who claims to want the game to succeed, yet makes posts like this every chance they get.....
On the question of it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming it's quite simple. I'll make the analogy to baseball. Many feel watching baseball on TV is akin to watching paint dry, but to actually play the game it's a lot of fun. Everquest was very much like this. Watching someone stream it is much less fun than actually playing it and being in the thick of things. There are many instances of this type of situation. Also, when they have an hour or less, you really want them spending the rest of the stream doing a corpse run?? I can just hear the whining and complaining after that video. It's not that they are afraid to show it, they are just trying to utilize the limited time they have, to show as much as they can. They have been reaching out to different streamers recently as well, so they are trying to introduce that streamers audience to the core gameplay, corpse runs are just one aspect of it. It's all about getting the word out to people.
If you were marketing a product on TV, would you spend your entire 30 second segment talking about one small aspect of your product, or would you try and touch on as many aspects as you could so that one of those might make a connection with them? It's really not rocket science, there is no shady reason they aren't showing corpse runs. If they were being shady, they wouldn't mention the fact they are having them at all.
I thought the video was slightly prophetic about one point -- they didn't bother to do corpse runs because they had GM tools. So, the lengthy, old-school aspect of corpse runs and that massive downtime wasn't entertaining enough for developers to show to the world on a video. Why aren't there people clamoring about leaving this very atmospheric 'feature' out of the game? Brad and his coneys appear to be willing to let the customers test this feature for them.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
Time crunch. The biggest reason is they only had about a 1 hour slot to
play, and they wanted to actually try and beat the mini boss within
that 1 hour. I thought it was pretty obvious.
I thought the video was slightly prophetic about one point -- they didn't bother to do corpse runs because they had GM tools. So, the lengthy, old-school aspect of corpse runs and that massive downtime wasn't entertaining enough for developers to show to the world on a video. Why aren't there people clamoring about leaving this very atmospheric 'feature' out of the game? Brad and his coneys appear to be willing to let the customers test this feature for them.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
Not sure there is a correlation between what is fun to watch and what is fun to play. Golf is dull AF to watch but it is fun to play.
I thought the video was slightly prophetic about one point -- they didn't bother to do corpse runs because they had GM tools. So, the lengthy, old-school aspect of corpse runs and that massive downtime wasn't entertaining enough for developers to show to the world on a video. Why aren't there people clamoring about leaving this very atmospheric 'feature' out of the game? Brad and his coneys appear to be willing to let the customers test this feature for them.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
This comes across as being very ignorant and a backhanded stab, especially for someone who claims to want the game to succeed, yet makes posts like this every chance they get.....
On the question of it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming it's quite simple. I'll make the analogy to baseball. Many feel watching baseball on TV is akin to watching paint dry, but to actually play the game it's a lot of fun. Everquest was very much like this. Watching someone stream it is much less fun than actually playing it and being in the thick of things. There are many instances of this type of situation. Also, when they have an hour or less, you really want them spending the rest of the stream doing a corpse run?? I can just hear the whining and complaining after that video. It's not that they are afraid to show it, they are just trying to utilize the limited time they have, to show as much as they can. They have been reaching out to different streamers recently as well, so they are trying to introduce that streamers audience to the core gameplay, corpse runs are just one aspect of it. It's all about getting the word out to people.
If you were marketing a product on TV, would you spend your entire 30 second segment talking about one small aspect of your product, or would you try and touch on as many aspects as you could so that one of those might make a connection with them? It's really not rocket science, there is no shady reason they aren't showing corpse runs. If they were being shady, they wouldn't mention the fact they are having them at all.
They have had videos longer than this one, so there's no limiting duration in play. They can make the video as long as they desire. There is no one hour limit except for artificial constraints. The point is, someone made the decision to package this video into a one hour block. Corpse runs get a lot more discussion, both pro and con. That amount of discussion seems to indicate an interest in the subject.
By leaving the corpse run out, and supplementing the needs of the video by using GM tools to resume the dungeon crawl after a death (or even a full wipe), the developers are indirectly admitting that a recovery run isn't fun, or even worth watching. So, how is Pantheon attempting to fix what many (myself included) are one of the problems of old-school gaming, specifically keeping 5 people waiting while the cleric does a corpse recovery?
Fixing problems with the older models is specifically one of the points that VR is using/has used to try to sell the product. Instead of showing alternate ways to impose a death penalty they are willing to fast forward past those portions to get back to more 'interesting' parts of the game.
The purpose for using different streamers to present their video is to introduce the game to new players, specifically, those that missed the EQ1/Vanguard era. That's the target audience, not forum regulars. Omitting the arduous nature of an old-school corpse recovery from the video seems like it is more tailoring the video to appeal to a newer audience rather than showing the product as intended for customers to play it. Players who experienced that first hand will understand the hazards of a corpse run, but those unfamiliar with 'old school' may be building false expectations about the game. At some point, you have to question the effectiveness of the marketing campaign and the message it is sending.
In any case, Pantheon isn't trying to improve and fix the issues that earlier generations of MMORPGs faced. Or if they are working on new ways to enhance the experience, they're using tools that won't be available to the public to bypass some of those issues.
--------- For the record, playing baseball may have been fun in my youth but I prefer watching these days. Neither playing nor watching addresses the fundamental issues with baseball, specifically games lasting too long.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Comments
They just need Necro's to be in from launch and everyones funeral issues will be solved, fook bards the great big girls blouse's.
Keep it up and you will have a hit.
Do it for us old schools, Brad!!
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
"I feel confident that from my perspective we'll be able to have bard in by launch"
oh ok. Not trying to be a dick but tbh thats still not really confirming it
I thought he was a 13 years old from the way he talked and behaved.
I can even remember his name "Navino" (can't say I can remember characters from other games).
All I can say he grew up pretty fast, because time 6 months he became well spoken and behaved as the whole server picked on him mercilessly.
Sure today there are many more dicks around, but this type of game which require the help of other people to achieve anything, you cannot afford to be a dick for too long.
You also can't just make an Alt and start afresh as leveling take ages, so you either suck it up and make an effort or quit.
Exactly!
I remember many, many train-deaths. Some by guys doing it just to be dinks, some by guys that were trying to run to safety. I've even been guilty of accidentally training others when I thought no one else was in the area. It happened so often, my friends and I didn't use HoTs or run AoE just so that we wouldn't snag mobs from trains as they ran by.
And that was in the days of better communities.
People in general seem to care less about their reputations nowadays, they're less willing to invest time into others, they have lesser understanding of things like good sportsmanship. Trolling is mainstream now.
Just wait until you're on your third corpse run of the hour, all because of the same guy repeatedly training you while making his Youtube video.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
Holy crap I think I remember Navino. I don't remember if it was my server (Tribunal), but he was certainly infamous.
This is why a real mmo needs pvp. But not pvp without consequences for abusers.
Innoruuk server ftw! Still remember our resident trainer. Iksar monk named Chubbies! Awesome guy, good monk, great puller, even better trainer! Haha don't know what made him turn into the massive trainer he became but it happened.
I remember getting trained and having a great enchanter with us, so many mezes and felt like non stop fighting. Some of the most intense group/dungeon fights were because of being trained haha. But with a good group trains = free pulls. In a bad group trains = lose of exp + corpse run.
You forgot how long it takes to level a character in EQ, not sure people would throw months of hard work out of the window just for a couple of hours of lolz.
If it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming?
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/On the question of it isn't good viewing, why is it good gaming it's quite simple. I'll make the analogy to baseball. Many feel watching baseball on TV is akin to watching paint dry, but to actually play the game it's a lot of fun. Everquest was very much like this. Watching someone stream it is much less fun than actually playing it and being in the thick of things. There are many instances of this type of situation. Also, when they have an hour or less, you really want them spending the rest of the stream doing a corpse run?? I can just hear the whining and complaining after that video. It's not that they are afraid to show it, they are just trying to utilize the limited time they have, to show as much as they can. They have been reaching out to different streamers recently as well, so they are trying to introduce that streamers audience to the core gameplay, corpse runs are just one aspect of it. It's all about getting the word out to people.
If you were marketing a product on TV, would you spend your entire 30 second segment talking about one small aspect of your product, or would you try and touch on as many aspects as you could so that one of those might make a connection with them? It's really not rocket science, there is no shady reason they aren't showing corpse runs. If they were being shady, they wouldn't mention the fact they are having them at all.
/fixed
Golf is dull AF to watch but it is fun to play.
By leaving the corpse run out, and supplementing the needs of the video by using GM tools to resume the dungeon crawl after a death (or even a full wipe), the developers are indirectly admitting that a recovery run isn't fun, or even worth watching. So, how is Pantheon attempting to fix what many (myself included) are one of the problems of old-school gaming, specifically keeping 5 people waiting while the cleric does a corpse recovery?
Fixing problems with the older models is specifically one of the points that VR is using/has used to try to sell the product. Instead of showing alternate ways to impose a death penalty they are willing to fast forward past those portions to get back to more 'interesting' parts of the game.
The purpose for using different streamers to present their video is to introduce the game to new players, specifically, those that missed the EQ1/Vanguard era. That's the target audience, not forum regulars. Omitting the arduous nature of an old-school corpse recovery from the video seems like it is more tailoring the video to appeal to a newer audience rather than showing the product as intended for customers to play it. Players who experienced that first hand will understand the hazards of a corpse run, but those unfamiliar with 'old school' may be building false expectations about the game. At some point, you have to question the effectiveness of the marketing campaign and the message it is sending.
In any case, Pantheon isn't trying to improve and fix the issues that earlier generations of MMORPGs faced. Or if they are working on new ways to enhance the experience, they're using tools that won't be available to the public to bypass some of those issues.
---------
For the record, playing baseball may have been fun in my youth but I prefer watching these days. Neither playing nor watching addresses the fundamental issues with baseball, specifically games lasting too long.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.