I think this is doomed to short term success. People are gonna go in with those rose colored glasses and when they reach end game are gonna wonder...'where's some new content.' I could be wrong obviously, but MMOs that have no 'evolution' in terms of content, get hammered.
As reluctant as I am to agree with you, I truly do. The way people consume content these days, what's inside the classic vanilla experience isn't going to be enough. People kvetch about largescale games "not having enough" content. I can't imagine what this could turn out like and how fast people will buzz through it.
I don't necessarily disagree, but the progression (should?) will be much slower if it's truly classic.
No heirlooms to expedite leveling alts, either.
It should be but I'm not sure people will go for it. The progression for WH40K is slower than typical and it has castigated for that. Maybe the core demographic for Classic will enjoy the slower pace. I doubt anyone else will, even if they should expect it.
Welcome to the Orange grove. Congrats!
Thanks!
No doubt, we won't see a huge sustainable population. For my part, I'll likely enjoy it casually more than likely.
The biggest detriment, in my mind, would be if there isn't a large enough population sticking around to properly leverage the more distinct and separate roles each class had. That's an issue I've ran into going back to try DAoC, there isn't enough population leveling classes to fill out the leveling zones. That's a disappointing feeling, specifically for someone like me who doesn't go into these games with a group of folks I can count on to play with.
Another example: I recently tried the SWG emu server (post-NGE). They even had an auto-level system so you can join the rest of the population. The only thing was, the Bounty Hunter I created needed tracking drones, which could not be found in the world but had to be crafted by other players. Only, there were zero drones on the marketplace, presumably because the dedicated base either had friends who crafted the drones for them directly, or they had a crafter of their own that crafted those drones. It left me without much options for actually tracking bounties. That kind of thing can kill an otherwise enjoyable experience when player interdependency literally holds your experience hostage.
That's not so much a problem for newer/more popular MMORPGs.
I can't believe LFG tool and cross realm battlegrounds haven't come up yet.
I had an idea the other day that I thought may be beneficial to games that want to avoid auto-matching of groups while still helping players find one another as much as possible.
The LFG advertising tool, as far as I've experienced, only let you advertise your currently logged in player. Why not allow players to advertise a group for ALL their created characters, regardless of which is logged in? I don't mean the auto-porting LFG queues, but the simple advertisement system included in some MMORPGs. Seems like it would increase the chances of players finding groupmates, and they could choose to advertise one, two, or all of their character's similtaneously for other players.
It should be a progression server otherwise whats the point ? I agree it won't last the initial rush will be popular but 3 months down the road it will struggle.
I think the target audience has grown to an age that this classic wow
shouldn't be more than just some occasional nostalgia. It shouldn't make
big bucks right at launch since it's just an optional service that is
pretty much destined to make money in the following years.
I'm
not sure if I'm interested at all yet. Even I might revisit an official
vanilla WoW server sometime. Probably I would quit before level 18 but
sometimes it's just good to know that there is a piece of history inside
the datacenters. Not many games are lucky enough to have that nowadays. Also for the "normal" WoW players it could fill the
gaps during content droughts.
The question is that will these servers be able to maintain a core playerbase. Will classic have hundreds or thousands of concurrent players in the long run to maintain an MMORPG experience?
It should be a progression server otherwise whats the point ? I agree it won't last the initial rush will be popular but 3 months down the road it will struggle.
I think the point is to have it be classic It isn't classic if it is progression. I would love progression maybe with the same game mechanics and thought process for development. That can't happen. As soon as you get into the expansions you lose what made classic what it was. Then. . not classic.
I do think a progression server would do well. . even if they did a 12 month one and then restarted it or something.
For me I didn't even like the BC expansion much. I don't mind the current game but I can already play that without a progression server.
I get why you would want one. . bot saying that the classic server should be a progression server just doesn't make sense to me.
People are by large very oblivious. Vanilla servers have existed for years. There will always be a presence and community for them. Maybe not nearly as big as the current community of WoW, but any attempts to label it as someone with "rose-tinted glasses" is both ignorant and stupid.
Releasing all the content of vanilla on day one is a mistake. It wasn't released in that manner originally. People will just skip some content entirely and jump into the last raid as soon as possible since it will drop the best gear. People will just farm Argent Dawn rep from the get go.
The thing about vanilla is that you had to progress through the content... some by virtue of attunements, other by virtue of it not being open. So the Gates of Ahn Qiraj are already open? What about the war effort to open them? The damn mount?
Hell it sounds like they've already done a cop out. Private servers at least tried to maintain the original as much as possible. Classic is going to be a failure.
This is really cool and wish everybody the best. I wish Rift would go back to classic before free to fail. The old builds before the changes were the best. Prime isn't classic Rift either. It's half ass Rift...
They should remake the game with modern standard instead of recycling an old and dying engine
The vanilla "purists" would NEVER accept that. They're doing what has been requested.
Just look at Old School Runescape & Runescape 3. Old School has terrible graphics and Runescape 3 has better and with optional interface & combat style of old school runescape. Still, however, the actual Old School runescape community and players GREATLY outnumber the players of RS3.
The phrasing "Start with 1.12" is not accurate. It will Start and End with 1.12 is more appropriate. This is not a progression server. The content that is out at release is the content that will be available forever and you won't get more then that.
Well it's not clear that all raid content has to be released at once.
While I'm glad they are starting with 1.12, if there is truly no content progression (even for the 'classic' content) then this is doomed to be short lived* (do they want it to die so they can say, 'we told you so'?).
*Vanilla WoW had a lot of 'catch-up' content (e.g. ZG20, AQ20) added throughout its life, if 'classic' starts with all content available then half the 'end-game' can effectively be skipped.
I can't believe LFG tool and cross realm battlegrounds haven't come up yet.
I had an idea the other day that I thought may be beneficial to games that want to avoid auto-matching of groups while still helping players find one another as much as possible.
The LFG advertising tool, as far as I've experienced, only let you advertise your currently logged in player. Why not allow players to advertise a group for ALL their created characters, regardless of which is logged in? I don't mean the auto-porting LFG queues, but the simple advertisement system included in some MMORPGs. Seems like it would increase the chances of players finding groupmates, and they could choose to advertise one, two, or all of their character's similtaneously for other players.
I totally agree. I think those tools that help people connect without bypassing content are exactly what old school MMORPGs needed. That type of LFG did nothing to break content or ruin social interaction. It was more like a message board in a tavern than an automation tool.
I'm unsure whether they'll even have CR Battlegrounds. I'm not a pvp player so I don't care either way but I could understand why players would want them. I also understand why Blizz wouldn't want Classic and Modern server players mixed if there are balance or skill compatibility issues. It's hard to say.
Absolutely. I've always referred to it as organic systems, but I'm not sure that's the right word. It's just one I came up with for these things in the absence of a better more appropriate term.
Systems that bring folks together without obviating content, like you say. Whether that be dynamic group questing systems that advertise players hit up an inn to meet other folks to recruit on their quest, increasing the rewards exponentially for each player picked up in these "meeting spots," the LFG advertising tool allowing you to advertise all your characters simultaneously as you like, or whatever. Things like that can nudge players towards one another through the use of positive rewards in terms of loot, XP, and the gamer experience.
Also, I really need to stop posting from my phone so much. Dem typos, doe.
They should remake the game with modern standard instead of recycling an old and dying engine
The vanilla "purists" would NEVER accept that. They're doing what has been requested.
Just look at Old School Runescape & Runescape 3. Old School has terrible graphics and Runescape 3 has better and with optional interface & combat style of old school runescape. Still, however, the actual Old School runescape community and players GREATLY outnumber the players of RS3.
A better comparison is to note Runescape "Classic" version (2001 snapshot) closes in August.
Old School Runescape is a 2007 view, so by similar comparison the server version Blizzard should be releasing is....Cataclysm. (2010)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I keep reading comments that people will get through the content fast because they already know what to do...
1st. Don't people know what to do with every other content as well? I mean from the current BfA beta people have already learned raid fights, dungeon fights etc... I don't see the difference, except yeah this will get more content with time.
2nd. Raids - they are 20 men and 40 men. In case you haven't raided in Vanilla let me tell you 40 people = quite a bit of mistakes even if raid fights are easier.
3rd. PvP - Good luck getting Grand Marshal fast if you don't have the whole server supporting you
4th. If you want to level 1 character, than gear it up and experience MC yeah it will take you probably only 2-3 months and if you want to get all your gear from MC it will take you probably another 2-3 months(40(50-60 with reserves) men raids don't forget a lot of people want your gear and hunters can wear thunder fury :O). So roughly 5-6 months just for 1 character. That seems like a lot to me and that's just for MC.
5th. Alts...
6th. Getting stuff. Not everything is readily available like in other expansions. Even food is expensive that's why mages will so popular back in the days :P
Honestly I personally see A LOT of content in Vanilla especially if you plan to play with more than 1 character.
When we ask people what they want, they keep asking for old stuff, bring back the game I used to love, give me a sequel of the game I loved, make me a game that is very similar to other popular games because that's what I will pay for.
Welcome to the reason why companies rarely create something new.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
When we ask people what they want, they keep asking for old stuff, bring back the game I used to love, give me a sequel of the game I loved, make me a game that is very similar to other popular games because that's what I will pay for.
Welcome to the reason why companies rarely create something new.
There is a place (and a market) for creating new and original IPs, there is also a place (and a market) to preserve and maintain gems of old. (See HD-versions and Remastered of old games, they're usually well recieved by fans)
Releasing all the content of vanilla on day one is a mistake. It wasn't released in that manner originally. People will just skip some content entirely and jump into the last raid as soon as possible since it will drop the best gear. People will just farm Argent Dawn rep from the get go.
The thing about vanilla is that you had to progress through the content... some by virtue of attunements, other by virtue of it not being open. So the Gates of Ahn Qiraj are already open? What about the war effort to open them? The damn mount?
Hell it sounds like they've already done a cop out. Private servers at least tried to maintain the original as much as possible. Classic is going to be a failure.
Private servers based in 1.12 have content progression, so I think you are jumping the gun here.
Comments
No doubt, we won't see a huge sustainable population. For my part, I'll likely enjoy it casually more than likely.
The biggest detriment, in my mind, would be if there isn't a large enough population sticking around to properly leverage the more distinct and separate roles each class had. That's an issue I've ran into going back to try DAoC, there isn't enough population leveling classes to fill out the leveling zones. That's a disappointing feeling, specifically for someone like me who doesn't go into these games with a group of folks I can count on to play with.
Another example: I recently tried the SWG emu server (post-NGE). They even had an auto-level system so you can join the rest of the population. The only thing was, the Bounty Hunter I created needed tracking drones, which could not be found in the world but had to be crafted by other players. Only, there were zero drones on the marketplace, presumably because the dedicated base either had friends who crafted the drones for them directly, or they had a crafter of their own that crafted those drones. It left me without much options for actually tracking bounties. That kind of thing can kill an otherwise enjoyable experience when player interdependency literally holds your experience hostage.
That's not so much a problem for newer/more popular MMORPGs.
The LFG advertising tool, as far as I've experienced, only let you advertise your currently logged in player. Why not allow players to advertise a group for ALL their created characters, regardless of which is logged in? I don't mean the auto-porting LFG queues, but the simple advertisement system included in some MMORPGs. Seems like it would increase the chances of players finding groupmates, and they could choose to advertise one, two, or all of their character's similtaneously for other players.
For those of you who are also wondering...
I do think a progression server would do well. . even if they did a 12 month one and then restarted it or something.
For me I didn't even like the BC expansion much. I don't mind the current game but I can already play that without a progression server.
I get why you would want one. . bot saying that the classic server should be a progression server just doesn't make sense to me.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
The thing about vanilla is that you had to progress through the content... some by virtue of attunements, other by virtue of it not being open. So the Gates of Ahn Qiraj are already open? What about the war effort to open them? The damn mount?
Hell it sounds like they've already done a cop out. Private servers at least tried to maintain the original as much as possible. Classic is going to be a failure.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Just look at Old School Runescape & Runescape 3. Old School has terrible graphics and Runescape 3 has better and with optional interface & combat style of old school runescape. Still, however, the actual Old School runescape community and players GREATLY outnumber the players of RS3.
And constantly feed your pet.
*Vanilla WoW had a lot of 'catch-up' content (e.g. ZG20, AQ20) added throughout its life, if 'classic' starts with all content available then half the 'end-game' can effectively be skipped.
Systems that bring folks together without obviating content, like you say. Whether that be dynamic group questing systems that advertise players hit up an inn to meet other folks to recruit on their quest, increasing the rewards exponentially for each player picked up in these "meeting spots," the LFG advertising tool allowing you to advertise all your characters simultaneously as you like, or whatever. Things like that can nudge players towards one another through the use of positive rewards in terms of loot, XP, and the gamer experience.
Also, I really need to stop posting from my phone so much. Dem typos, doe.
Old School Runescape is a 2007 view, so by similar comparison the server version Blizzard should be releasing is....Cataclysm. (2010)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1st. Don't people know what to do with every other content as well? I mean from the current BfA beta people have already learned raid fights, dungeon fights etc... I don't see the difference, except yeah this will get more content with time.
2nd. Raids - they are 20 men and 40 men. In case you haven't raided in Vanilla let me tell you 40 people = quite a bit of mistakes even if raid fights are easier.
3rd. PvP - Good luck getting Grand Marshal fast if you don't have the whole server supporting you
4th. If you want to level 1 character, than gear it up and experience MC yeah it will take you probably only 2-3 months and if you want to get all your gear from MC it will take you probably another 2-3 months(40(50-60 with reserves) men raids don't forget a lot of people want your gear and hunters can wear thunder fury :O). So roughly 5-6 months just for 1 character. That seems like a lot to me and that's just for MC.
5th. Alts...
6th. Getting stuff. Not everything is readily available like in other expansions. Even food is expensive that's why mages will so popular back in the days :P
Honestly I personally see A LOT of content in Vanilla especially if you plan to play with more than 1 character.
Welcome to the reason why companies rarely create something new.
Stop being salty is what I'm trying to say.
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