Context matters a lot. If the game tries to justify or qualify the torturing or beheading of a person, that would likely make it worse than if the game labeled it the evil act it is.
Another scenario is moral dilemmas. In FrostPunk (great game, bought it a week ago, highly recommend), you have to sometimes decide whether you put children to work, and even if the children should be forced to do dangerous jobs. You have to decide whether or not workers need to work 10, 16, or 24 hour shifts. You have to decide whether you want to take the time to bury the dead, or just throw them in a mass grave pit. But it's all couched into a situation where your choice may lead to your generator shutting down, which would result in the entire colony freezing to death. Maybe you could get by without choosing the most ethical choice, but maybe not. It's not always clear. In This War of Mine, sometimes it comes down to stealing from others (sometimes forcefully) or maybe causing the children back at your safehouse to starve
In those contexts, I can handle much worse things because it's quite obvious that the game isn't trying to qualify them as good acts, but merely presenting you with a complex moral dilemma.
I do like games that force moral dilemmas on people that no modern American would ever face.
For instance "You have just conquered a hostile tribe in the desert and must decide the fate of the prisoners. If you send them back out into the wild unarmed they will surely die to the wild and other tribes. If you send them back out into the wild with their arms and equipment they may just attack you again. If you bring them into your tribe as freemen, they may sow discontent and work against you. Keep them as prisoners and they will consume your precious food supplies without providing anything in return causing your people to suffer or starve. Executing would provide them a quick clean death, more merciful than the desert. Enslaving them would give them life, and allow them to produce valuable food and other resources, but keep them under supervision where it's more difficult for them to harm you. What do you do?"
These are real choices ancient people actually had to make. Human history is brutal and our ancestors didn't always handle things very gracefully. But perhaps more gracefully than we give them credit for living in a nation that hasn't seen an invading army since WW2, and then only in parts of Alaska. And where the vast majority of people have never known true hunger.
I think it's actually very good for games to address some of these hard issues in the proper context.
Not any kind of tree hugger or anything, but I was just never into the whole idea of pointless killing, if the game mechanics make it so that the mob is not going to be hostile to me, then, I don't see the point in killing for the sake of killing something.
Just like I won't kill mobs that don't give EXP (like under leveled mobs), unless they attack me first, and sign their own death warrant in the process.
I view it as waste, and in some cases, yah, killing that orc peon that charged me in South Ro, while I was on my level 50 druid, I was like "You dumb bastard" as I nuked them into cinders.
I don't get how some players have such a need to kill anything and everything in site, as when I play, I like what I am doing to have a reason.
Because they can I guess. As for the pixels vs reality debate, would we also be ok with rape and torture games? Porn games featuring minors, a KKK simulator? Its just pixels you know. Or would we be uncomfortable with that because they represent humans instead of other animals?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
What about animals raping other animals? Torturing them? Baby animals having sex?
You are talking about an AGENDA,it is not the same thing as what is portrayed in mmorpg's. These rpg's are not trying to portray any kind of torture or an agenda based on racism or culture.
The examples you used would be doing exactly that,trying to portray something harmful,illegal and would be trying to send a message instead of simply being ....a video game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Context matters a lot. If the game tries to justify or qualify the torturing or beheading of a person, that would likely make it worse than if the game labeled it the evil act it is.
Another scenario is moral dilemmas. In FrostPunk (great game, bought it a week ago, highly recommend), you have to sometimes decide whether you put children to work, and even if the children should be forced to do dangerous jobs. You have to decide whether or not workers need to work 10, 16, or 24 hour shifts. You have to decide whether you want to take the time to bury the dead, or just throw them in a mass grave pit. But it's all couched into a situation where your choice may lead to your generator shutting down, which would result in the entire colony freezing to death. Maybe you could get by without choosing the most ethical choice, but maybe not. It's not always clear. In This War of Mine, sometimes it comes down to stealing from others (sometimes forcefully) or maybe causing the children back at your safehouse to starve
In those contexts, I can handle much worse things because it's quite obvious that the game isn't trying to qualify them as good acts, but merely presenting you with a complex moral dilemma.
I do like games that force moral dilemmas on people that no modern American would ever face.
For instance "You have just conquered a hostile tribe in the desert and must decide the fate of the prisoners. If you send them back out into the wild unarmed they will surely die to the wild and other tribes. If you send them back out into the wild with their arms and equipment they may just attack you again. If you bring them into your tribe as freemen, they may sow discontent and work against you. Keep them as prisoners and they will consume your precious food supplies without providing anything in return causing your people to suffer or starve. Executing would provide them a quick clean death, more merciful than the desert. Enslaving them would give them life, and allow them to produce valuable food and other resources, but keep them under supervision where it's more difficult for them to harm you. What do you do?"
These are real choices ancient people actually had to make. Human history is brutal and our ancestors didn't always handle things very gracefully. But perhaps more gracefully than we give them credit for living in a nation that hasn't seen an invading army since WW2, and then only in parts of Alaska. And where the vast majority of people have never known true hunger.
I think it's actually very good for games to address some of these hard issues in the proper context.
If you like those kind of moral dilemmas, I would highly recommend you check out This War of Mine and FrostPunk if you haven't already. Both are made by the indie studio 11Bit, and both focus on just those kinds of moral dilemmas. FrostPunk is macro-level: you control a society of refugees trying to survive a new, unexpected ice age. This War of Mine is more micro-level, with the player taking control of a small group of civilians trying to survive in a war-torn land.
How do people feel about the Sims4 Basemental Mod, they’ll get high, but also come down and have hangovers. They can have fatal and non-fatal overdoses and form addictions. If you’re using WickedWhims, a sex mod for Sims 4, they can also exchange sex for drugs when they’re desperate.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I kill (ingame) animals to help them. It happens occasionally upon looting that the animal or critter has swallowed an entire set of plate armor. It's the decent thing to do to get it out of them.
Not any kind of tree hugger or anything, but I was just never into the whole idea of pointless killing, if the game mechanics make it so that the mob is not going to be hostile to me, then, I don't see the point in killing for the sake of killing something.
Just like I won't kill mobs that don't give EXP (like under leveled mobs), unless they attack me first, and sign their own death warrant in the process.
I view it as waste, and in some cases, yah, killing that orc peon that charged me in South Ro, while I was on my level 50 druid, I was like "You dumb bastard" as I nuked them into cinders.
I don't get how some players have such a need to kill anything and everything in site, as when I play, I like what I am doing to have a reason.
Because they can I guess. As for the pixels vs reality debate, would we also be ok with rape and torture games? Porn games featuring minors, a KKK simulator? Its just pixels you know. Or would we be uncomfortable with that because they represent humans instead of other animals?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
What about animals raping other animals? Torturing them? Baby animals having sex?
You are talking about an AGENDA,it is not the same thing as what is portrayed in mmorpg's. These rpg's are not trying to portray any kind of torture or an agenda based on racism or culture.
The examples you used would be doing exactly that,trying to portray something harmful,illegal and would be trying to send a message instead of simply being ....a video game.
I get what you are saying but this was about the argument that stuff is ok "because its just pixels." I was just curious where people draw the line and why.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Most serial killers tortured and killed animals as children. People who kill animals for 'pleasure' or 'sport' are retarded, without a shadow of a doubt. Pleasure in killing a defenceless animal? something wrong in your head. Sport? Fuck off you thick bastards, it is in no way a sport.
There is an enormous moral difference between killing things that you should kill and killing things that you should not kill. Even if you want to talk about hunting, there's an enormous difference between selectively killing animals that a region has too many of and killing animals that the region has too few of.
There's also a difference between how serial killers torture animals and how people hunt or kill for sport. Serial killers would gas cats to death, crucify animals, bury them alive, skin them alive, and a lot worse. I have never met anyone in real life who hunts to just kill a living thing, they all do it for food.
So you have never met trophy hunters it must mean they don't exist? Total bullshit and to call shooting animals a sport is also deluded.To answer someone else I said most, that wasn't 100% as you tried to imply I'd said but anything over 50% is most.
Not any kind of tree hugger or anything, but I was just never into the whole idea of pointless killing, if the game mechanics make it so that the mob is not going to be hostile to me, then, I don't see the point in killing for the sake of killing something.
Just like I won't kill mobs that don't give EXP (like under leveled mobs), unless they attack me first, and sign their own death warrant in the process.
I view it as waste, and in some cases, yah, killing that orc peon that charged me in South Ro, while I was on my level 50 druid, I was like "You dumb bastard" as I nuked them into cinders.
I don't get how some players have such a need to kill anything and everything in site, as when I play, I like what I am doing to have a reason.
Because they can I guess. As for the pixels vs reality debate, would we also be ok with rape and torture games? Porn games featuring minors, a KKK simulator? Its just pixels you know. Or would we be uncomfortable with that because they represent humans instead of other animals?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
So you don't kill humans in mmo's? If you did did you give them a trial by a jury of their peers first?
Not any kind of tree hugger or anything, but I was just never into the whole idea of pointless killing, if the game mechanics make it so that the mob is not going to be hostile to me, then, I don't see the point in killing for the sake of killing something.
Just like I won't kill mobs that don't give EXP (like under leveled mobs), unless they attack me first, and sign their own death warrant in the process.
I view it as waste, and in some cases, yah, killing that orc peon that charged me in South Ro, while I was on my level 50 druid, I was like "You dumb bastard" as I nuked them into cinders.
I don't get how some players have such a need to kill anything and everything in site, as when I play, I like what I am doing to have a reason.
Because they can I guess. As for the pixels vs reality debate, would we also be ok with rape and torture games? Porn games featuring minors, a KKK simulator? Its just pixels you know. Or would we be uncomfortable with that because they represent humans instead of other animals?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
So you don't kill humans in mmo's? If you did did you give them a trial by a jury of their peers first?
lol...
Talk about missing the point.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Why is this even a topic at all, these libtards rofl.
What kind of response is that to a topic? Obviously you have to flex your right wing political views everywhere.
Lol and you have to be offended by everything all the time, its animals in a video game. Its not that serious lololol. Go back to your safe space.
What are you even talking about, I haven't voiced my opinion on anything in this thread. Maybe read the thread first. I personally kill whatever the hell I want in games, but that shouldn't matter to you?
Personally I like to imagine that I am a hunter/gatherer; can't really call it a predator because humans are omnivores, but a lifestyle which is like a more animalistic version of human, rather than this atrocious wage slavery we are all locked into. I'd like to believe in reincarnation, and these two ideas would fit together really well, because when you prey on an animal or even a person you're just consuming their xp or mana or evolution points or whatever you want to call it, but their soul just rolls a new toon and tries again.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
I'm a VEGAN and I am a hardcore MMO player, it's a GAME. You get rid of doing ANYTHING in games, you get rid of free speech, don't like it, don't play it. Plain and simple, We cannot change the world and society, we can ONLY change OURSELVES. On that happy note, Imma go hop on some and kill some Happy day 2 all! Happy MMO hunting!
Not any kind of tree hugger or anything, but I was just never into the whole idea of pointless killing, if the game mechanics make it so that the mob is not going to be hostile to me, then, I don't see the point in killing for the sake of killing something.
Just like I won't kill mobs that don't give EXP (like under leveled mobs), unless they attack me first, and sign their own death warrant in the process.
I view it as waste, and in some cases, yah, killing that orc peon that charged me in South Ro, while I was on my level 50 druid, I was like "You dumb bastard" as I nuked them into cinders.
I don't get how some players have such a need to kill anything and everything in site, as when I play, I like what I am doing to have a reason.
Because they can I guess. As for the pixels vs reality debate, would we also be ok with rape and torture games? Porn games featuring minors, a KKK simulator? Its just pixels you know. Or would we be uncomfortable with that because they represent humans instead of other animals?
/Cheers, Lahnmir
Definitely. This is why I wonder why some players [whine] about "situations" in a game. As many murder hobos are fond of saying, I'd rather get my frustrations out in a game than real life.
None of these activities I would play, and probably avoid the games. But I'm [not] "entitled" to have every game ever made cater to my personal morals and tastes. The best is when people want to "change history" to fit their delicate senses.
It's a game. Pixels on a screen. If one cannot separate that, they have bigger problems then what is happening on the screen. But people will complain and cry and shout, "It's immoral!" or "It's not right!" Don't play the game(s). You DO have a choice.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I generally don't kill pixelated animals unless there is some reason for it.
Isn't it the same for all NPCs ? People generally won't kill stuff that doesn't drop interesting loot.
Mostly. But I also kill NPCs that annoy me. As an example, some NPC that killed me months ago when I was lower level, and now Karma is paying out dividends to that NPC.
Animals don't generally annoy me.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Well, for context, I'm a vegetarian for humane reasons. Basically, if I'm not willing to kill it I don't eat it.
I seem to never date vegetarians, most of my friends are not vegetarians. I have a good friend that hunts. I don't scold, lecture, or try to change people's minds as I consider it "my thing."
So, having said that, while I don't usually "kill" game animals; if I have a character that I think "would" kill an animal I have him kill an animal.
So, take Skyrim. My characters usually buy food at the taverns or from merchants. Some characters will hunt and cook food.
For me it's part of the immersion and I make sure my characters eat and rest. In no way, shape or form do I think I'm actually "killing" anything.
I'm playing a game and that game is about the environment, history, culture and immersion for me.
I do find myself, as nothing is in a vacuum, avoiding killing animals (except of it's a character that hunts for food) unless they attack. I just don't find "combat with bears" epic or fun.
But if I kill a "game bear" I don't sit on the edge of my bed and have a long think about what I've done.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I would never hurt an animal in real life. In game, however, it doesn't bother me one bit. I did, however, try to get my wife to play a MMO with me back in the day. The first quest was to kill some wolves. She made a comment on how the yelping was too real for her and she wasn't interested in playing. lol
I would never hurt an animal in real life. In game, however, it doesn't bother me one bit. I did, however, try to get my wife to play a MMO with me back in the day. The first quest was to kill some wolves. She made a comment on how the yelping was too real for her and she wasn't interested in playing. lol
Now I find that funny, but this is from Warhammer. We decided to play evil for a change, we were always the good guys in MMOs. We were some way in before we realised we had no motivation, apart from destruction it just seemed pointless. The final straw for me was during Dark Elf quests who train horses by breaking their sprit. Now you just saw them lying on the ground, you did not see them being whipped or anything but you could hear distressed neighing.
That was it for me, why the hell was I helping these sickos? My desire to further the aims of Chaos just did not exist. So we switched sides, no one had said anything but when I raised the question everyone turned out to be disenchanted. Enjoyed it loads more, our actions then made sense.
I generally don't kill pixelated animals unless there is some reason for it.
Isn't it the same for all NPCs ? People generally won't kill stuff that doesn't drop interesting loot.
Mostly. But I also kill NPCs that annoy me. As an example, some NPC that killed me months ago when I was lower level, and now Karma is paying out dividends to that NPC.
Animals don't generally annoy me.
EQ 1. Black Wolves. Damned dogs would jump into the fray "just because!"
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Comments
For instance "You have just conquered a hostile tribe in the desert and must decide the fate of the prisoners. If you send them back out into the wild unarmed they will surely die to the wild and other tribes. If you send them back out into the wild with their arms and equipment they may just attack you again. If you bring them into your tribe as freemen, they may sow discontent and work against you. Keep them as prisoners and they will consume your precious food supplies without providing anything in return causing your people to suffer or starve. Executing would provide them a quick clean death, more merciful than the desert. Enslaving them would give them life, and allow them to produce valuable food and other resources, but keep them under supervision where it's more difficult for them to harm you. What do you do?"
These are real choices ancient people actually had to make. Human history is brutal and our ancestors didn't always handle things very gracefully. But perhaps more gracefully than we give them credit for living in a nation that hasn't seen an invading army since WW2, and then only in parts of Alaska. And where the vast majority of people have never known true hunger.
I think it's actually very good for games to address some of these hard issues in the proper context.
These rpg's are not trying to portray any kind of torture or an agenda based on racism or culture.
The examples you used would be doing exactly that,trying to portray something harmful,illegal and would be trying to send a message instead of simply being ....a video game.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It's fun and stressful, but in a good way.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
lol...
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I make it a point to kill every kill every killable pixel in MMO
None of these activities I would play, and probably avoid the games. But I'm [not] "entitled" to have every game ever made cater to my personal morals and tastes. The best is when people want to "change history" to fit their delicate senses.
It's a game. Pixels on a screen. If one cannot separate that, they have bigger problems then what is happening on the screen. But people will complain and cry and shout, "It's immoral!" or "It's not right!" Don't play the game(s). You DO have a choice.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Animals don't generally annoy me.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
That was it for me, why the hell was I helping these sickos? My desire to further the aims of Chaos just did not exist. So we switched sides, no one had said anything but when I raised the question everyone turned out to be disenchanted. Enjoyed it loads more, our actions then made sense.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR